Non payment by subcontractor

[kittyleanne26]

Hi, I hope someone can help advise as Citizens advice are a 14 day turn around and I feel so angry and stressed.

My partner was working for a subcontractor I will refer to as X and he subcontracts from Y who then subcontracts from a massive house builder in the UK. X had been booking in work with Y and the work hadn't been done so when Y found out they said he wouldn't be getting anymore more money to pay his 13 guys wages. So now my partner hasn't been paid £1800 after tax becuase of this. Apparently X doesn't have the money and he owes Y over £30k. My partner has tried to contact X and be reasonable about it but he started off saying my partner was at the top of his priority list and he would be paid the money, it is now 3 weeks later and X is ignoring calls and texts. Never in our lives have we struggled like this, we are a large family my partner and I have 8 children together and have now had to use a food bank for the last 2 weeks which we have never had to do as we have been pay check to pay check since covid as we didn't take any of the gouverment grants and this has massively set us back. Please can someone help, what can we do, can I persue X, Y and the massive UK house builder? Should I call. The massive UK house builder and speak to them and let them know the kind of guy that has been subcontracted? Would they even care? We can't let this just be accepted as a loss of £1800 as its put us in debt and it has really affected our family massively.

Many Thanks in advance for anyone who takes the time to read and respond

 

[BubbaWY]

Unfortunately your partners contract will have been with who he was subcontracting to. So there is very little to gain in chasing further up the food chain. From my experience, they may have sympathy, but will not be able to do anything to help because it would set a precedence.

Im really sorry for the position it has left you and your family in but other than persuing through the small claims court (which may end up being a waste of time) I dont think there is much else you can do.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

It might do any harm to tell people up the chain about the contractors business practice, however, it might reduce the chance of getting paid!

As mentioned, your grief is with the person who employed, not their employers...

 

[MBE2017]

Your only complaint is with X, the subcontractor who has failed to pay.

I suggest your partner starts looking for work elsewhere in the meantime, his only option is small claims court to get his money, unless he can convince X to pay what is owed.

 

[Gyumri]

X had been booking in work with Y and the work hadn't been done so when Y found out they said he wouldn't be getting anymore more money to pay his 13 guys wages. So now my partner hasn't been paid £1800 after tax becuase of this. Apparently X doesn't have the money and he owes Y over £30k.

Somebody is telling you the usual story and it sounds like X who can't be owing Y £30,000 (it would be the other way around) and some work has obviously been completed by your partner.

Check with the house builder to see if X has been paid and you may find he has been, but is just giving you a false sob story.

So you would need to open a claim with MCOL which you can do from the comfort of your armchair against X if he has a home as an asset to which bailiffs can attend. Although check whether MCOL covers this type of claim.

I am sure X is not having to visit any food banks.

 

[NicoJ]

Somebody is telling you the usual story and it sounds like X who can't be owing Y £30,000 (it would be the other way around) and some work has obviously been completed by your partner.

Check with the house builder to see if X has been paid and you may find he has been, but is just giving you a false sob story.

So you would need to open a claim with MCOL which you can do from the comfort of your armchair against X if he has a home as an asset to which bailiffs can attend. Although check whether MCOL covers this type of claim.

I am sure X is not having to visit any food banks.

If X hasn't completed the jobs (which it says in the OP) then X may owe Y penalties so it could very well be that they owe rather than are owed.

I do agree with all the other posters that your claim is with X but the tale you tell to me suggests X is in trouble. If X is a ltd company it may not exist any longer so you may have to brace for the fact that you may never get the money.

 

[Bob Morgan]

For the future, keep away from House-Building! In E&W developers are dealing with Gove's Planning Disaster on top of falling numbers!

 

[Newchodge]

Somebody is telling you the usual story and it sounds like X who can't be owing Y £30,000 (it would be the other way around) and some work has obviously been completed by your partner.

I read it that X has lied to Y and claimed for work not done to the tune of £30,000.

 

[Gyumri]

If X hasn't completed the jobs (which it says in the OP) then X may owe Y penalties so it could very well be that they owe rather than are owed.

X has already told one whopper by assuring the OP's partner that his payment will be prioritised. After that I would not put much faith in X.

 

[Newchodge]

X has already told one whopper by assuring the OP's partner that his payment will be prioritised. After that I would not put much faith in X.

That is a little harsh. X may have been telling the truth, but agreeing to pay one person before another does NOT mean agreeing to pay either!

X clearly has issues, certainly ethical issues, probably financial ones as well. However I agree with the others, the only thing that can be done is to sue X.

 

[Gyumri]

Apparently X doesn't have the money and he owes Y over £30k.

I read it that X has lied to Y and claimed for work not done to the tune of £30,000.

Then X wouldn't be "owing" Y £30,000 unless he had actually wrongly received such a sum for doing nothing.
That doesn't square with the OP's complaint that work has been done but X is doing the usual ducking and diving.

 

[Newchodge]

Then X wouldn't be "owing" Y £30,000.

X has been paid for work not done to the tune of £30,000.

 

[Gyumri]

X has been paid for work not done to the tune of £30,000.

Maybe- but I think the OP's complaint is that work has been done but there is no sign of X putting his hand into his pocket to pay for it.

 

[NicoJ]

X has already told one whopper by assuring the OP's partner that his payment will be prioritised. After that I would not put much faith in X.

There's no evidence that was a lie but the point of my post was to show that x could potentially owe Y. Cyndy suggested another reason.

OP clearly states that X was booking in work that wasn't being done so not sure why you think the work has been done?

 

[kittyleanne26]

Unfortunately your partners contract will have been with who he was subcontracting to. So there is very little to gain in chasing further up the food chain. From my experience, they may have sympathy, but will not be able to do anything to help because it would set a precedence.

Im really sorry for the position it has left you and your family in but other than persuing through the small claims court (which may end up being a waste of time) I dont think there is much else you can do.

Thank you for taking to respond. Its greatly appreciated. Just as I thought, as much as I don't want to hear it. Small claims could be an option but I think he will probably just shit the business down and open another one. I can't believe some people have no morals like this, he is in his late 40's and has grown up children so he must know how much families rely on the income.

 

[kittyleanne26]

It might do any harm to tell people up the chain about the contractors business practice, however, it might reduce the chance of getting paid!

As mentioned, your grief is with the person who employed, not their employers...

Thank you, if I told you the story he told you would laugh at how far fetched it was! I think I've just learnt there are some nasty people out there.

 

[kittyleanne26]

Your only complaint is with X, the subcontractor who has failed to pay.

I suggest your partner starts looking for work elsewhere in the meantime, his only option is small claims court to get his money, unless he can convince X to pay what is owed

Your only complaint is with X, the subcontractor who has failed to pay.

I suggest your partner starts looking for work elsewhere in the meantime, his only option is small claims court to get his money, unless he can convince X to pay what is owed.

Thank you for responding. He left straight away and was given a job directly through Y but something feels off. He has been paid by Y and there hasn't been any issues but something feels off!

 

[kittyleanne26]

Your only complaint is with X, the subcontractor who has failed to pay.

I suggest your partner starts looking for work elsewhere in the meantime, his only option is small claims court to get his money, unless he can convince X to pay what is owed.

Thank you for responding. He left straight away and was offer a job directly with Y. However something feels off. He has been paid by Y so there is no issue with payment but my gut tells me Y actually had something to do with all of this!

 

[kittyleanne26]

Somebody is telling you the usual story and it sounds like X who can't be owing Y £30,000 (it would be the other way around) and some work has obviously been completed by your partner.

Check with the house builder to see if X has been paid and you may find he has been, but is just giving you a false sob story.

So you would need to open a claim with MCOL which you can do from the comfort of your armchair against X if he has a home as an asset to which bailiffs can attend. Although check whether MCOL covers this type of claim.

I am sure X is not having to visit any food banks.

X owes Y the money becuase he was booking in lifts that hadn't been done and getting the money for them and now he says he doesn't have the money either. He had no need to be booking in extra work. He certainly isn't visiting a food bank like us! It's made me feel so helpless. He needs to sell his things and do the right thing to put this right.

 

[kittyleanne26]

If X hasn't completed the jobs (which it says in the OP) then X may owe Y penalties so it could very well be that they owe rather than are owed.

I do agree with all the other posters that your claim is with X but the tale you tell to me suggests X is in trouble. If X is a ltd company it may not exist any longer so you may have to brace for the fact that you may never get the money.

Thank you for responding. Your right. I feel suck and gutted that the money he owes will probably never be seen. I hope no one else employs this guy he is a charlatan

 

[kittyleanne26]

For the future, keep away from House-Building! In E&W developers are dealing with Gove's Planning Disaster on top of falling numbers!

I just wish there was more protection for self employed people.

I read it that X has lied to Y and claimed for work not done to the tune of £30,000.

This is right. He has lied but Y should have been checking wjat was being booked in and he hasn't! So both of them haven't been doing their job properly.

 

[kittyleanne26]

That is a little harsh. X may have been telling the truth, but agreeing to pay one person before another does NOT mean agreeing to pay either!

X clearly has issues, certainly ethical issues, probably financial ones as well. However I agree with the others, the only thing that can be done is to sue X.

X has agreed to pay Y and has made a lump sum of £6k. He is also working for Y to pay back some of the money owed.... Its all very odd. Y is a massive company and 30k probably wouldn't be missed for a couple of weeks so X could have paid people like us who really needed the wages to feed a family. The whole thing seems so far fetched it's uncomfortable.

 

[kittyleanne26]

Maybe- but I think the OP's complaint is that work has been done but there is no sign of X putting his hand into his pocket to pay for it.

Your absolutely right.

 

[kittyleanne26]

Then X wouldn't be "owing" Y £30,000 unless he had actually wrongly received such a sum for doing nothing.
That doesn't square with the OP's complaint that work has been done but X is doing the usual ducking and diving.

X definitely owes Y money for lifts he had booked in and hadn't done. However the site agent from Y wasn't checking what he was booking in so they are both as bad as each other. Sickening to think this can happen and there is no security

 

[kittyleanne26]

There's no evidence that was a lie but the point of my post was to show that x could potentially owe Y. Cyndy suggested another reason.

OP clearly states that X was booking in work that wasn't being done so not sure why you think the work has been done?

That's right he has been booking in plots and lifts that haven't been done, why we don't know but they want the money back to pay people to do it.

 

[BubbaWY]

Thank you for taking to respond. Its greatly appreciated. Just as I thought, as much as I don't want to hear it. Small claims could be an option but I think he will probably just **** the business down and open another one. I can't believe some people have no morals like this, he is in his late 40's and has grown up children so he must know how much families rely on the income.

All I will say, as a slight defence having worked in construction most of my life, is that he may have been shafted higher up the chain.

Just this morning, a main contractor that I know has gone under. Luckily we didnt have any work on with them at the moment, but its like a deck of cards. Their supply chain will be affected meaning some of their sub contractors will probably cease trading and this will in turn affect their supply chain. Its a pretty nasty industry to be in.

 

[kittyleanne26]

All I will say, as a slight defence having worked in construction most of my life, is that he may have been shafted higher up the chain.

Just this morning, a main contractor that I know has gone under. Luckily we didnt have any work on with them at the moment, but its like a deck of cards. Their supply chain will be affected meaning some of their sub contractors will probably cease trading and this will in turn affect their supply chain. Its a pretty nasty industry to be in.

We've found out since that he has a history of doing this.

 

[MBE2017]

All I will say, as a slight defence having worked in construction most of my life, is that he may have been shafted higher up the chain.

Just this morning, a main contractor that I know has gone under. Luckily we didnt have any work on with them at the moment, but it’s like a deck of cards. Their supply chain will be affected meaning some of their sub contractors will probably cease trading and this will in turn affect their supply chain. It’s a pretty nasty industry to be in.

This is no different from any other industry, many keep warning you have to be careful about how much credit you extend, in this case earnings waiting to be paid. There is no perfect system that stops all eventualities, all anyone can do is their best to minimise the risk involved.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Whilst the housebuilder will have no obligation to sort this problem out directly they are the one's with the higher profile, the one's that wouldn't want their name dragged through the mud.

If not now, then at some stage it may be worthwhile considering whether to advise them of the situation.

Out of interest, are the other 13 workers waiting for payment as well?

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

This is no different from any other industry, many keep warning you have to be careful about how much credit you extend, in this case earnings waiting to be paid. There is no perfect system that stops all eventualities, all anyone can do is their best to minimise the risk involved.

Exactly this. Business is a risk .Sadly you went into this deal not appreciating the risk
By being a member here you could have assessed the risks and if it is worth it ( maybe not) someone would have even credit checked your customer.

Don't risk money you cant afford to lose . I am not a sympathetic person in these situations as sympathy does not make the profits
In my view this is reckless you went into this deal without doing business properly there are consequences for just playing at it
Your naivety stands out to me a mile this is a business invoice that has not been paid or gone wrong and you are seeking the advice from The Citizens Advice Charity
In my view you were simply not geared up to do this , You did not put in the correct research and you obviously don't have the liquid funding

Harsh reply I know buts it only business and if it stops someone else from not being able to feed their kids when they google business and payments . Then its a good five minutes typing from me a public service!

 

[kittyleanne26]

Whilst the housebuilder will have no obligation to sort this problem out directly they are the one's with the higher profile, the one's that wouldn't want their name dragged through the mud.

If not now, then at some stage it may be worthwhile considering whether to advise them of the situation.

Out of interest, are the other 13 workers waiting for payment as well?

Thank you for responding. Yes they are all different amounts due to a variety of day rates and a mix of bricklayers and labourers. I want to approach them but my partner is worried he won't have a job to go back to as he is now employed directly by Y who are employed by the major house builder. I used to work in high profile press and have spoken to my partner about taking this matter to the house builder because the press local and national would have a field day with this story due to the story X told as to how Y demanded the money and also due to the fact a large family have had to struggle. We don't claim benefits so literally had nothing for 3 weeks. So thankful for the food bank, it didn't make me feel great having to visit it, even though it was totally out of our control.

 

[MBE2017]

I used to work in high profile press and have spoken to my partner about taking this matter to the house builder because the press local and national would have a field day with this story due to the story X told as to how Y demanded the money and also due to the fact a large family have had to struggle.

It is your choice, but I don’t think this will cause any embarrassment to his new employer, annoyance which could result in your husband no longer being required possibly.

So let’s pretend the newspapers ask why they demanded their money back for work not done, which obviously they will now have to pay someone else to do. They have as directors a legal duty to do the best for their company, ie getting their money back. If they do not, what about their employees? Are you OK that they might need to go to the food bank?

Look, the only person to be angry at here is the original contractor your partner worked for, not paying him. I would have thought you would have been grateful to his new employers helping him out, they did not have to.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Sadly you went into this deal not appreciating the risk
By being a member here you could have assessed the risks and if it is worth it ( maybe not) someone would have even credit checked your customer.

I thought he was an employee of subcontractor 'X'?

 

[Newchodge]

I thought he was an employee of subcontractor 'X'?

No, I think he was a sub contractor of sub contractor X. Construction is like that. Everyone tries to avoid their legal responsibilities for employing staff. It is a Ponzi system, and the ones at the bottom are always the ones who lose.

 

[Bob Morgan]

It is probably worthwhile commenting on a few more Broader Issues relating to UK House-Builders. They are also issues that you will NOT find in the Property Section of the Daily Mail either! This is the ‘Elephant in the Room’ that no one is talking about! – “But, if we don’t talk about it, it might go away!”

Yet this particular ‘Elephant’ is one that will have long lasting consequences for the UK Economy as a whole – An Economy now reliant upon ‘House Price Inflation!’ And, an Economy that will almost certainly shift in an orderly manner from Recession into Depression, as the year unfolds.

“Crucifixion? – One Cross each, Second Door on the Left!”

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the effects of Gove’s Planning Reforms are now being felt – Or should I say, “The LACK of Gove’s Planning Reforms?” The Industry is currently ‘Running-Out’ of Approved Sites! – Gove, simply FAILED to get the job done!

“Rearranging the Deck-Chairs on the Titanic!”

Since his return to the Department of Levelling-Up Housing & Communities, the Core Problems of ‘Planning’ have remained unresolved – They were not ‘Revisited!’ Instead, he has been ‘Tinkering’ around the edges with Regulating Aesthetics, Site Biodiversity and 'Schools of Place,' rather than getting to grips with more strategic issues!

We should not forget that House-Builders and the Construction Industry make huge donations to Conservative Party Funds! – Something that the House Builders’ Federation (HBF) currently has ‘Under Review!’ This is especially so for some of the ‘Big Players,’ as Gove enticed them into paying the ‘Grenfell Levy’ in order to ‘Dupe’ the rest of the industry into following suit! – “You couldn’t make it up!”

Compounding matters yet further are that some Local Authorities have withdrawn their ‘Local Plans,’ resulting in a ‘Log Jam’ in the Planning Approval Process. Some of his ‘Reforms’ make one piece of ‘Undecided Legislation’ reliant upon another!

There is also the ‘Minefield’ of the Community Infrastructure Levy! – A ‘Back-Door Tax’ on Housing! Some Local Authorities have a Levy of Zero! – Yet others impose upwards of £50/M2. The ‘Scottish System’ is somewhat different – There is no Community Infrastructure Levy! Gove’s ‘Cunning Plan’ also includes for the introduction of ‘Son of Community Infrastructure Levy!’ This would ‘Ensure’ a Government Tax, in addition to a Local Authority Tax!

Gove is also one who ‘Rules by Chaos Theory!’ There have been Six Housing Ministers in 12 Months! – Quite a lengthy ‘Blame Trail!’ (The latest has moved from ‘Sport & Culture. Her only ‘Experience of Business’ is a DISSOLVED Internet Publishing Company!) We also have the House of Lords, now taking quite a Detailed Interest in the ‘Hopelessly’ Drafted Legislation!

“Unfortunately Baldrick, there was one problem with his plan . . . It was B******S!”

Fundamentally, the Draft Legislation is a Roadmap for the establishment of the ‘FORMER United Kingdom!’ – It relates only to ENGLAND, and is entrenched in perverse mechanisms for ‘Taxing Planning Permission’ still further! Such ‘Tax’ is then applied to the House Price for ‘Joe Public’ to pay! – Fuelling the ‘House-Price Economy!’

From New Year, Volume House-Builders ‘Prepare’ for the Reporting Season! Most of the League Division One Teams report results between February and Easter – Hence, they like to ‘Retain Cash,’ from Christmas onwards! This is especially so at the moment, given that most will have performed poorly, during the last 12 Months! – And, ‘Creative Accounting’ has exhausted its ‘Box of Tricks!’

Not forgetting that most of them prefer to ‘Featherbed’ their Shareholders rather than their Sub-Contractors! Yet, visit any Housing Site and you will NOT see a Shareholder! However, almost everyone on that site will be a Sub-Contractor of one flavour or another! – All the way down to the Cleaner in the Show House!

“Miss Easter and you’re Screwed for the Year!”

Easter is also ‘Pivotal’ for the industry as a whole! However, many House-Builders will be measuring sales in Negative Numbers, for the coming year! – A Reservation at Easter (for a nominal amount) on a site that does not have Planning Permission – What could possibly go wrong? In fact, this has been happening for a while. On the ‘Flip-Side,’ several large Housing Associations are projecting ZERO Completions for this year! Contrast this against the “Sunlit Uplands” of 300,000 Houses PA by 2025!

Some of us have seen ‘The Perfect Storm’ on the horizon for some time. I receive calls daily from one Niche Developer Client in Edinburgh – He now starts the conversation with “What has that wee **** Gove been up to t'day?”

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

It is probably worthwhile commenting on a few more Broader Issues relating to UK House-Builders. They are also issues that you will NOT find in the Property Section of the Daily Mail either! This is the ‘Elephant in the Room’ that no one is talking about! – “But, if we don’t talk about it, it might go away!”

Yet this particular ‘Elephant’ is one that will have long lasting consequences for the UK Economy as a whole – An Economy now reliant upon ‘House Price Inflation!’ And, an Economy that will almost certainly shift in an orderly manner from Recession into Depression, as the year unfolds.

“Crucifixion? – One Cross each, Second Door on the Left!”

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the effects of Gove’s Planning Reforms are now being felt – Or should I say, “The LACK of Gove’s Planning Reforms?” The Industry is currently ‘Running-Out’ of Approved Sites! – Gove, simply FAILED to get the job done!

“Rearranging the Deck-Chairs on the Titanic!”

Since his return to the Department of Levelling-Up Housing & Communities, the Core Problems of ‘Planning’ have remained unresolved – They were not ‘Revisited!’ Instead, he has been ‘Tinkering’ around the edges with Regulating Aesthetics, Site Biodiversity and 'Schools of Place,' rather than getting to grips with more strategic issues!

We should not forget that House-Builders and the Construction Industry make huge donations to Conservative Party Funds! – Something that the House Builders’ Federation (HBF) currently has ‘Under Review!’ This is especially so for some of the ‘Big Players,’ as Gove enticed them into paying the ‘Grenfell Levy’ in order to ‘Dupe’ the rest of the industry into following suit! – “You couldn’t make it up!”

Compounding matters yet further are that some Local Authorities have withdrawn their ‘Local Plans,’ resulting in a ‘Log Jam’ in the Planning Approval Process. Some of his ‘Reforms’ make one piece of ‘Undecided Legislation’ reliant upon another!

There is also the ‘Minefield’ of the Community Infrastructure Levy! – A ‘Back-Door Tax’ on Housing! Some Local Authorities have a Levy of Zero! – Yet others impose upwards of £50/M2. The ‘Scottish System’ is somewhat different – There is no Community Infrastructure Levy! Gove’s ‘Cunning Plan’ also includes for the introduction of ‘Son of Community Infrastructure Levy!’ This would ‘Ensure’ a Government Tax, in addition to a Local Authority Tax!

Gove is also one who ‘Rules by Chaos Theory!’ There have been Six Housing Ministers in 12 Months! – Quite a lengthy ‘Blame Trail!’ (The latest has moved from ‘Sport & Culture. Her only ‘Experience of Business’ is a DISSOLVED Internet Publishing Company!) We also have the House of Lords, now taking quite a Detailed Interest in the ‘Hopelessly’ Drafted Legislation!

“Unfortunately Baldrick, there was one problem with his plan . . . It was B******S!”

Fundamentally, the Draft Legislation is a Roadmap for the establishment of the ‘FORMER United Kingdom!’ – It relates only to ENGLAND, and is entrenched in perverse mechanisms for ‘Taxing Planning Permission’ still further! Such ‘Tax’ is then applied to the House Price for ‘Joe Public’ to pay! – Fuelling the ‘House-Price Economy!’

From New Year, Volume House-Builders ‘Prepare’ for the Reporting Season! Most of the League Division One Teams report results between February and Easter – Hence, they like to ‘Retain Cash,’ from Christmas onwards! This is especially so at the moment, given that most will have performed poorly, during the last 12 Months! – And, ‘Creative Accounting’ has exhausted its ‘Box of Tricks!’

Not forgetting that most of them prefer to ‘Featherbed’ their Shareholders rather than their Sub-Contractors! Yet, visit any Housing Site and you will NOT see a Shareholder! However, almost everyone on that site will be a Sub-Contractor of one flavour or another! – All the way down to the Cleaner in the Show House!

“Miss Easter and you’re Screwed for the Year!”

Easter is also ‘Pivotal’ for the industry as a whole! However, many House-Builders will be measuring sales in Negative Numbers, for the coming year! – A Reservation at Easter (for a nominal amount) on a site that does not have Planning Permission – What could possibly go wrong? In fact, this has been happening for a while. On the ‘Flip-Side,’ several large Housing Associations are projecting ZERO Completions for this year! Contrast this against the “Sunlit Uplands” of 300,000 Houses PA by 2025!

Some of us have seen ‘The Perfect Storm’ on the horizon for some time. I receive calls daily from one Niche Developer Client in Edinburgh – He now starts the conversation with “What has that wee **** Gove been up to t'day?”

Well Bob I don't know what to say
I understand now that you are at your most creative when tired and maybe with the help of a couple of whiskeys able to give a proper breakdown of the shysters who build houses

I still hold the OP fully responsible for their sad demise

@Lucan Unlordly This post does me in a bit if the OP stated the facts then it would be easier to sort out . All this x =Y multiplied by z is educationally challenging for me an reminds me of my tough childhood

If all these new OP clearly stated the facts they would get more help
We don't need to know the knock on effects from problems because we cant help with that
We don't need to know how they feel as we are not the Jeremy Kyle show

 

[Bob Morgan]

Well Bob I don't know what to say
I understand now that you are at your most creative when tired and maybe with the help of a couple of whiskeys able to give a proper breakdown of the shysters who build houses

I still hold the OP fully responsible for their sad demise

@Lucan Unlordly This post does me in a bit if the OP stated the facts then it would be easier to sort out . All this x =Y multiplied by z is educationally challenging for me an reminds me of my tough childhood

If all these new OP clearly stated the facts they would get more help
We don't need to know the knock on effects from problems because we cant help with that
We don't need to know how they feel as we are not the Jeremy Kyle show

Ha ha! That was done in 'One Take' at 06:00! I had to do an All Night Stint for the Scottish Client - Which I don't mind doing. It also came on the back of dealing with Planning Mayhem in the UK last week, whilst still 7,500 Miles away from my home base! But who can complain? - It's a rather pleasant 27C, and the sun is shining!

 

[Gyumri]

“Crucifixion? – One Cross each, Second Door on the Left!”

I thought that was supposed to be the "Quiet Room?"

“Rearranging the Deck-Chairs on the Titanic!”

You mean sitting in front of the Titanic orchestra- which is another way of putting it.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

Are any of the usuall suspects on here still here in the UK anymore? ?

 

[fisicx]

Are any of the usuall suspects on here still here in the UK anymore? ?

I’m in Aldershot. Or as it’s now known: Nepal2