Nine Telecom vs. Optimum Calls, where do I stand?

[poolman]

Hi Claire F - have done a bit of research this morning. First my IP address is still the same and the Broadband still via Plusnet which has been very good for last 4 years - was rubbish when first signed up for first few months and then very reliable after change using Plusnet and still good today.
It would seem that the documents were filed yesterday and can be viewed from companies house today. The new Company in Manchester seems to be Unicom and owning company Verarstar Ltd 3667643. Sounds like a substantial company.
The directors of Business coms resigned last week (filed yesterday) and the new directors are also listed at Verastar - looking like problems may be over or at least improvements look more promising.

 

[Claire F]

Hi Poolman, thanks for the update and information. I can't say that I am overjoyed to find myself under the Unicom umbrella - but at least it might stop them from ringing up and asking us to change to them! That would also explain why yesterday when the 'Premier Calls' contact was reading me a standard paragraph he mentioned Unicom. I asked about this and was advised that it was a standard paragraph and that he could read it again saying Premier Calls and it would be just the same - clearly it would as they are now one and the same company! I just wish they would be honest and upfront about what has been going on. I will let the dust settle, but may look to move our internet services over to someone else, as I am not very happy about the way that this has been handled and we - the customers - have been kept in the dark. I never like dealing with businesses that have that type of approach - it doesn't build mutual trust. The only time we had problems with Premier Calls prior to this was when we upgraded to fibre - that was a bit of a nightmare, but apart from that the service has been reliable, although the internet speeds are not impressive, but that might be at least in part to our location. I guess it will be a case of waiting until the current contract ends and seeing what they offer next.

 

[poolman]

Oh Dear! - Just received a letter from Premier Calls of Hemel Hempstead this morning, no mention of takeover by Unicom of Manchester which was over a week ago now.
Continual improvement etc want to upgrade my broadband using advanced diagnostic tools and services. Will supply new router, username and password.
Been very happy with broadband for the last 4 years and not looking forward to any changes.
Will wait to see what happens next.

 

[Claire F]

Hi Poolman, that is not good - I hate it when businesses are not honest. I can't get through on Premier Calls' 0845 number this morning - it just says it has not been recognised.Not getting a good feeling about this. Still not restored our fixed IP address despite three calls about it now. Time to look at alternatives I think....

 

[Claire F]

Just for info - Premier Calls customer service number is 'no longer recognised' their sales number is just on hold and you can't get an answer from Unicom either - they claim they answer every call in 6 seconds - but then they put you on hold indefinitely. I don't feel that these are good signs.

 

[Claire F]

Hi Poolman, just a final (I think!) update. I did finally get through on the Premier Calls number. They have now given us a fixed IP address (although not to the original one). Apparently we have been moved from Plusnet as the broadband provider to Talktalk. It will be interesting to see how that works out. I did say that I was not impressed with the way this had been handled and that I think Premier Calls need to contact all their customers to explain what has happened to restore some confidence in them. So we'll see if that gets fed back. The guy I dealt with was very apologetic and has offered some compensation for the hassle, so that was good. Hope things work out for you, but it may be worth ringing them and just saying that you know about the Unicom take over and want to know exactly why they are offering to change you and what this will mean to your service. Hope it goes well.

 

[poolman]

Hi Claire F - Been out all day today so haven't had a chance to phone anybody.
Thanks for all your info but I'm now quite concerned about latest developments. Just tried their website (Premier) but that has now vanished and after all the grief I had at home just over a year ago with broadband supplied by "The Post Office" which came via Tiscali which is part of talktalk. It seems that they can transfer you off the BT Openreach network quite easily but another provider can have great difficulty getting the line back again. Will report back shortly.

 

[poolman]

Website came back again later on Monday night. Phoned this morning and they were insisting they were Premier and denying any take over etc. After quite a few heated minutes conversation was passed to a different department and did start admitting the true position that they are in Manchester and that Premier had been taken over by Verastar and eventually managed to extract that the Broadband is being transferred to the TalkTalk network next week. I'm quite adamant I don't want TalkTalk and he is just as adamant that it is going ahead anyway and it's going to be a wonderful service! I've asked that the position be put in writing in an email - nothing received to far. Must have been on the phone for around an hour, including about 25 mins of him phoning me back. Not at all happy.

 

[japancool]

Tell me something - how much were the bills that you received from Nine Telecom for December and January for? And how much would they normally have been?

 

[poolman]

Bill was for approx £80. Call charges were for December from 12th (less than 3 weeks) and covering Christmas period so were just over £3 +VAT about a £1 or so over charged and the line rental and free caller display about £14+Vat overcharged plus loyalty/previous overcharge credit of £15 +Vat per month

 

[japancool]

So overall, you're about £30 worse off?

Unless you're particularly unhappy with the actual quality of the calls, why not just pay and get on with it? It's still the same service going over the same network.

 

[poolman]

Why pay an extra £30 for something just a couple of months after getting the company to charge the original agreed amounts. Historically I have been paying a higher charge for the calls and it was not worth the time each month phoning them for the £3 or so excess credits. They agreed the original charges but gave an extra £15 month discount for 3 months to offset some of the previous historic overcharges, 2 months into new contract and already paying more than before for line rental and calls and lost the £15 discount.
Part of the agreement was for the Broadband to continue with current supplier but have received letter saying it's being upgraded. After many denials, upgrade was acutally a transfer to the Talktalk network. Having suffered a year of their services at home I do not wish to repeat the experience and painful service again. A key reason as to why I renewed contract with Premier was specifically promised that Broadband would continue through Plusnet as it had for almost 4 years previously, excellent reliability.

 

[japancool]

How much time have you already spent on this and how much do you value your time?

 

[poolman]

Far too much time at present but doing it to save time later on when I can least afford it.
Perhaps I should mention that Unicom are at number 8 in the ofcom league tables for complaints. Their last fine was in October 2015 £200,000. In the Which? broadband suppliers TalkTalk do come out quite near the bottom while plusnet are nearer the top for Service etc.
Why should I risk poor service and almost certain problems later on. We had a very good track record with current supplier so why change?

 

[Verastar Ltd]

In response to comment surrounding Premier Calls in recent days. We would like to confirm that Verastar Ltd have finalised the purchase of Premier Calls parent company, Business Comms Solution Ltd.

Verastar appreciate that this has been a confusing time for Premier Calls customers and we thank you for your patience. You will continue to be serviced and invoiced by Premier Calls.

Whilst we aim to continue to deliver an outstanding service during this period we understand there may be questions or issues. We will endeavour to answer or resolve these as swiftly as possible via our customer services: phone 0845 241 4668.

 

[poolman]

Hi everyone - good to see Verastar taking an interest.
Just tried phoning them but had another call after 10 minuets so never actually got to talk to anyone. Can't remember waiting even 30 seconds with the old "owners" calls usually answered and talking to someone in less than 10 rings.

Just received new phone bill - now got Fraud Defender for £1.
I think it must be to replace Fraud Aware which was agreed not to charge.
Bill is very hard to check as no itemised call charges just headings like UK non geographic 10 calls 12.16 duration £1.38 - seems a lot of calls for a credit card machine but no details of when calls were made. Had problems in the past where one call can cost over £5+VAT made in the early hours when no one is around - not bad when no telephone is plugged into the line!
Did get one £15 loyalty credit on bill so did get that bit right!

Not heard any more about broadband switch, Jack from Unicom/Verastar/Premier promised to send confirmation email of points outlined during phone call on Tuesday but nothing received so far.

 

[Claire F]

Hi Poolman, I agree that the new bill is not as clear as before and the £50 discount promised for all the hassle we had has not materialised yet either. I am really unhappy with all of this - such as waste of all our time - and now to cap it all Nine Telecom are sending letters threatening court action if we don't pay all the money they demanded. I am seeking advice from FSB. Will let you know how that goes. Will also ask if we are automatically released from contract if the supplier is bought out. Have you paid anything to Nine yet?

 

[japancool]

Hi Poolman, I agree that the new bill is not as clear as before and the £50 discount promised for all the hassle we had has not materialised yet either. I am really unhappy with all of this - such as waste of all our time - and now to cap it all Nine Telecom are sending letters threatening court action if we don't pay all the money they demanded. I am seeking advice from FSB. Will let you know how that goes. Will also ask if we are automatically released from contract if the supplier is bought out. Have you paid anything to Nine yet?

Then let them take you to court. They have no contract with you and no leg to stand on.

 

[poolman]

Hi Claire F - been a bit busy last few days so not really been able to catch up. Update so far is Broadband migrated last week, had problems with line on credit card machine then Broadband (same line) went down. Phoned premier number but got the now usual message of higher number of calls than usual etc and eventually gave up and phoned Jack from "customer resolutions" He's not technical but between us were up and running quickly.
Later found reason security camera system not working due to lack of static IP address so again another 10+ minutes of raspy music and gave up and phoned Jack. Very helpful and problem quickly sorted and back up running next morning. Also mentioned the upload speed only half what it used to be but download same as before change (minor niggle) Today did a check and speed is actually faster than before (about 20%) and upload also now a bit better than when first changed. So far customer service has been terrible but Jack has certainly saved the day for me and avoided disaster - Thanks!
Also got the threatening letter from Nine, didn't realise it was 2 bills so was quite a bit more than I first thought. Need to look a bit closer to see what the all over charges really are.

 

[Claire F]

Hi Poolman, glad you've got things resolved. I have also been in communication with Jack and he has resolved the £50 credit situation for us, so that is good He must be a busy guy as he seems to be sorting all customer queries!
I have spoken to the FSB legal people and they are aware of the issues and seem to be advising people to go to Ofcom if you are not happy with paying Nine, as there is no contractual obligation to do so. I have already paid what I felt was reasonable (equivalent to what I would have paid Premier Calls, calculated using Nine's lowest contract charges) by cheque in 'full and final settlement'. They have cashed the cheque and so have accepted the payment. As such they can't now request more. In fact when I looked through the figures we were only out by £6.90 because they sent me a credit note in February reducing the broadband charge they had billed from £101.97 to £34.74. However they seem to have overlooked this in their latest communication and are asking for the full amount (an additional £75 or so). After talking to the FSB legal people I have decided to write back saying that they have accepted the full and final payment and any more contact would be taken as harassment and reported to Ofcom. I hope that will be the last of it. I also asked the FSB if our contract with Premier Calls is still valid and he said yes - so they have until November to get our trust back!

 

[Claire F]

Then let them take you to court. They have no contract with you and no leg to stand on.

Hi Japancool, I agree, but of course don't want to end up going that route if we can avoid it.

 

[justintime]

You guys that are now with Unicom. Is broadband provided by TalkTalk residential or TalkTalk Business? The former is crap (may have improved) but I've been with TalkTalk Business now for 21 months and I can't fault them. I pay £27.50 + VAT for line rental, broadband and unlimited calls including mobiles (just looked at website and its £21.50 + VAT at the moment)

Maybe worth looking at when your current contracts come to an end. I have no affiliation with them other than being a very satisfied customer.

 

[Claire F]

Hi Justintime, thanks for the info on TalkTalk. I imagine we are with the Business part. Apart from the problem when we were switched over (when we lost our fixed IP and callback function) the service has been fine - so can't complain there so far. The Customer Service and billing are not as good as we had before - but that is not to do with TalkTalk. We will see if things improve.

 

[DavieO]

Hi all. I have also had all the hassle caused by Premier/Nine Telecom and yesterday received from Nine a 'NOTICE OF INTENTION TO COMMENCE LEGAL PROCEEDINGS'. They say I will incur court costs of upto £75 together with reasonable legal costs. Also if payment is not received by 8/4/16 then a statutory compensation fee of £40 is automatically due together with accrued interest at 8% above base rate. I will NOT pay a penny to this lot as I have never had a contract with them and their charges were excessive compared to what I was paying to Premier. I phoned them today to inform them I will be contesting any court action and will be countersuing for harassment. I also was able to get the names of the company secretary Bekki Edwards and head of legal Tim Barnett. I informed the advisor that I intend to claim against these two personally in a small claims action. I may also report both Premier and Nine to the ICO for possible data protection breaches as somehow Nine now have my personal details. Will investigate if this is also actionable in the small claims court or if this is a criminal matter.
Cheers all.

 

[cjd]

Hi all. I have also had all the hassle caused by Premier/Nine Telecom and yesterday received from Nine a 'NOTICE OF INTENTION TO COMMENCE LEGAL PROCEEDINGS'. They say I will incur court costs of upto £75 together with reasonable legal costs. Also if payment is not received by 8/4/16 then a statutory compensation fee of £40 is automatically due together with accrued interest at 8% above base rate. I will NOT pay a penny to this lot as I have never had a contract with them and their charges were excessive compared to what I was paying to Premier. I phoned them today to inform them I will be contesting any court action and will be countersuing for harassment. I also was able to get the names of the company secretary Bekki Edwards and head of legal Tim Barnett. I informed the advisor that I intend to claim against these two personally in a small claims action. I may also report both Premier and Nine to the ICO for possible data protection breaches as somehow Nine now have my personal details. Will investigate if this is also actionable in the small claims court or if this is a criminal matter.
Cheers all.

On the data protection thing, you may find in your T&Cs that they can pass your details to an aquirer in order to provide continuity of service.

 

[Claire F]

Hi DaveO, will be interested to hear how you get on. I certainly don't think that anyone should be expected to pay more than they were originally contracted to do. FSB advised contacting Ofcom about this to see what their advice was. I am not planning to take any further action unless Nine contact me again. If so I will contact Ofcom to complain about harassment and may think about a small court action.

 

[DavieO]

Got an email from Premier regarding my refusal to pay Nine Telecom. Nine must have been in contact with Premier to get their assistance and get me to pay.

Dear Mr O’Neil,


We have recently been made aware that you are experiencing some issues in respect of the invoices sent to you by Nine Telecom and that you are being threatened with legal action as a result of this. We have been trying to contact you in order to discuss this, clarify some details and assist in any way that we can.


Unfortunately, we have been able to contact you via the telephone and we would ask that you contact the Customer Resolution Department in order to discuss this further.


Alternatively, we are happy to discuss this with you via email if telephoning is not convenient for you.


Kind Regards

My response to Premier. Premier asked me what it would take to resolve this dispute.
I told them they should deal with Nine and clear any demands from them and then I would pay premier as per my contract. ie. I would not be paying for phone calls as per OUR agreement.
They said they could not do that. Suggested I pay Nine and they could possibly credit my account to compensate the additional costs.
I thought, ok. I sent them a copy of all correspondence that I had, unfortunately I had deleted some but Premier should be able to see on their end as they should keep all correspondence. I also listed my charges for dealing with each email and phonecall as well as damages if Nine do take me to court and also termination fees due to breach of contract and fees for data protection breach etc using the same terms as Premier and charges for legal action by NIne.
As of yet, Premier have not responded to my demands for compensation.


Hi Benjamin.


I have reviewed all the available correspondence between Premier, Nine and myself. However, I have deleted some emails sent to your company but I assume you would have copies on your system. I do have the responses to my requests though which would at least prove I sent emails incase your company has also deleted them.

I have added a few comments and questions highlighted in red in response to the emails received.

I await your response to the points concerned and also a settlement of this dispute.


Account Number: PA1948



Dear Mr David O'Neil


We are writing to advise you of a delay in your monthly billing for the calls and services you used in the month of September, these invoices would usually have been sent on or around the 14th October. We are experiencing problems with our billing systems used to generate your monthly invoices which means that no customer invoices have been sent for this period and no payments have been collected. We are working to resolve the issue and will be adding your September invoice in your October invoice which you will receive shortly.


Payment will then be required via your chosen method on or after the 28th November for both invoices.(If you demand payment for the service then I will pay it at my normal contract terms)


We apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused you. Please note that ensuring you have the best customer experience is our main priority, so please do not hesitate to contact the Customer Services team should you require any further assistance. You can do this by calling the customer service number on this letter.


Kind Regards,



Dear Sir/Madam


We have been made aware that some customers have received an invoice and a letter from Nine Telecom Ltd for monthly service (no call charges), this is not a valid invoice and does not need to bepaid as we will be sending your November invoice with your November call charges as usual in the next few weeks.(I await your invoice so that I can pay you what I am due.)

The letter also refers to several brands we operate as well as Premier Calls , these including Advantage Telecom are trading names of the company Business Comms Solution Ltd which has been invoicing you for over two years now and this will be the same moving forward.

There is no action for you to take however please note the new customer service number is now 0845 2414668(Impossible to contact)

Please use this number for any future contact.


As you may be aware we have had some issues with our wholesale supplier (Club Communications) which delayed October and September’s bills and in line with this we terminated the contracts with the wholesale supplier, however this will not affect future service.


If you already pay by Direct Debit this will not affect the payments, the new DD name set up recently will remain the same and will show as BCS (business Comms Solution) on your bank statement. Do not worry, Nine Telecom will not be collecting anything from your bank.


We value your custom and appreciate your support. Please ignore any further correspondence from Nine Telecom Ltd, as Premier Calls will continue to provide your telephony service as always.(Did you provide the service or were you in breach of contract?)



Date- 11th January 2016

 

[DavieO]

Dear Sir/Madam


As you may be aware we are currently having legal issues with our previous supplier Nine Telecom.


Please refer to our previous correspondence regarding this matter. Please be further advised to continue to ignore any correspondence or calls with Nine Telecom, and we will be in contact further this week, once this has been resolved.



Please accept our apologies if you are having issues getting through to us on our new customer service number, we are experiencing high call volumes due to this issue, please avoid calling us in regards to this issue as we will contact you once we have further information for you.

(Avoid calling as there is no way you will get through to us as we do not answer)



If you have a fault with your service, please continue to contact us via telephone or email.



Reminder - service continuity
It’s really important that you read all of the information included in this email and contact us, in order that your phone and/or broadband services are maintained.

Our sister company Club Communications Ltd (which trades under the brand Nine Wholesale) has acted for a number of years, as a service provider for Advantage, Optimum, Premier and Talk Plus. These four businesses share a common ownership and provided telephony solutions for your business. They did that by buying those solutions from us. Unfortunately, the service contract with these four businesses had to be terminated recently, due to various legal breaches; indeed Advantage Telecom Ltd, for example, has now been dissolved at Companies House.

(If Nine can terminate contract due to an alleged breach then why can’t I?)

In order to avoid disruption of telephony and/or broadband services for your business, Nine Wholesale has continued to operate the underlying services since the termination and our retail arm, Nine Telecom, will provide your bill, customer service and technical support.

(Assumed service provision without consent or chance to deny) No contract with me.

You will therefore notice a change to how your invoice looks and we recognise that this may be alarming and confusing, so we will do everything we can to reassure you about Nine Telecom. Our aim is to avoid any impact on your business arising from a loss of services and even deliver a few improvements to the quality of service you receive along the way. (Does improvements mean overcharging on bill?)

Action required
You should have received an invoice from us, which lists the services we have provided you with from 10th December onwards. We invoiced you using our Silver tariff, however you have the freedom to choose a tariff that is right for you.

(When I called Nine to discuss they would not negotiate on charging for calls until about 4th call and then only offered a 10% discount on call only. I rejected their offer. I also contacted Premier to suggest they pay Nine telecom and then to invoice me properly for the correct sum due. Somehow though, I was cut off at least twice when making this offer and no one called me back. Dates and times of phonecalls can be verified by checking my call register and crosschecking it with your recorded calls.)

If you responded to this letter, thank you. You don't need to do anything further. If you haven't yet been back in touch, please follow the steps below to ensure the continuity of your services.

(Is this a threat to disrupt our service?)



Dear Mr David O'Neil,



I have tried call you on your number 01592261363 with no success.

As you may be aware we are currently having legal issues with our previous supplier Nine Telecom.


Please refer to our previous correspondence regarding this matter. Please be further advised to continue to ignore any correspondence or calls with Nine Telecom, and we will be in contact further this week, once this has been resolved.(Advice to ignore Nine)


Our directors are in court this week and the matter should be resolved this week and an email will be sent to clarify the outcome.


Please accept our apologies if you are having issues getting through to us on our new customer service number, we are experiencing high call volumes due to this issue, please avoid calling us in regards to this issue as we will contact you once we have further information for you.

(Avoid calling as there is no way you will get through to us as we do not answer)



If you have a fault with your service, please continue to contact us via telephone or email.


Once we have resolved this current issue with Nine Telecom we will invoice you accordingly and advise further in regards to when these payments will be collected

(I await your invoice for the period under dispute.)

Many thanks



Karli-ann



Dear Mr David O'Neil,


As you may be aware we are currently having legal issues with our previous supplier Nine Telecom.


Please refer to our previous correspondence regarding this matter. Please be further advised to continue to ignore any correspondence or calls with Nine Telecom, and we will be in contact within the next 7 days, once this has been resolved. .(Advice to ignore Nine)


Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience this has caused you, unfortunately we have had no control over the situation and it is not something we ourselves expected to happen. We hope to resume normal service shortly. Unfortunately under the circumstances we have had a high volume of calls coming through, this means there is a slightly longer holding time. All of our contact numbers are available on our letters and on our website.(Unavailable for contact)

If you have a fault with your service, please continue to contact us via email or by phone on xxx.


Once we have resolved this current issue with Nine Telecom we will invoice you accordingly and advise further in regards to when these payments will be collected.

(I await your invoice for the period under dispute.)


However as per the terms and conditions of your contract we are unable to accept your notice, as it is not been received in the notice period:
(How can you and Nine claim a breach of contract and move to dissolve said contract when I am denied the same basic right?)

20.1 This contract may be terminated in writing by either you or us for convenience by giving notice within 30 days of the end of minimum period or any renewal period, this request must be sent by Royal Mail recorded delivery

Your contract is due for renewal on 26th March 2018. Please inform us again in writing, sent by recorded delivery within 30 days of this date. Please be advised that if you do wish to terminate the agreement before the minimum contract period you may be liable for an early termination fee, as stated in the terms and conditions;


20.2 If the customer wishes to completely terminate their contract with Premier Calls they must pay the early termination fee of one hundred and ninety five pounds plus value added tax rate per line, which represents a fair and reasonable estimate of the losses, costs, and expenses, which Premier Calls would suffer in the event of the agreement being terminated prior to the end of the minimum duration period. The customer will also forfeit any service charges and line rentals paid in advance.


If you do have any further questions please don’t hesitate to contact the customer service team on the number below.

 

[DavieO]

Dear Sir/Madam


We are writing in relation to the correspondence you have received from Nine Telecom Limited (“Nine Telecom”) since 23 December 2015. At the outset, we apologise for the inevitable confusion as to who is the identity of your service provider and would like to explain the position now and for the future in terms of your service.

The letter from Nine Telecom mentioned that the wholesale service contracts (that is, the contracts under which we obtained the services which we supplied to you) between Nine Telecom’s wholesale affiliate (Club Communications Limited, which trades as Nine Wholesale – “Nine Wholesale”), and each of Advantage, Optimum, Premier and Talk Plus were terminated recently due to various legal breaches. Unfortunately Nine did not give you the full picture.



The issues referred to by Nine Telecom are the subject of legal proceedings in the High Court and are a matter of dispute between us and the two Nine companies.

Firstly, we say that we are not in breach of contract.



Secondly, we say that we have terminated our contract with Nine Wholesale and not the other way around (due to Nine’s own breaches of the contracts).


Thirdly, it is not correct and is in fact misleading for Nine to suggest that we are in some way not continuing in business. Advantage, Optimum, Premier and Talk Plus are brands of Business Comms Solution Ltd (“BCS”). This means that your agreements have, since 2013, been with BCS directly and not each of those four brands. Therefore, it is not relevant that Advantage Telecom Limited, has been dissolved, as the business which it previously ran is now part of BCS after a business transfer of its assets.


Previously we asked Nine Wholesale as an intermediary to provide certain services on our behalf. After termination, we sought to make alternative arrangements to ensure the continuity of your telecoms services going forwards. Nine attempted to block this then sought to step into our shoes to provide these services directly to you instead of via us without authority. This resulted in their letter to you of 23 December 2015 titled ‘a very warm welcome to Nine Telecom’. For a number of reasons Nine should not have done this.

To avoid further confusion and after taking legal advice and consulting with Ofcom we asked the court to provide a ruling as to who should be entitled to provide your services moving forward in the period before a trial of the claim we have brought takes place. A hearing took place on 11 January 2016 and 14 January 2016, at which the Court ordered that Nine is not allowed to continue to block the transfer of your telecom services to a new wholesale supplier through BCS. Therefore any threats Nine has previously made to you that they are going to cut off your services if you do not pay your bill with Nine are without foundation (in addition the most recent threats in that regard have been criticised by the court as an attempt to frustrate the will of the court and so was clearly wrong and inappropriate).

This means that:


· BCS will be continuing to provide your telephone and broadband services going forwards as they have been and there is no further action that you need to take;

· Nine has been ordered to not provide any further bills to you.

· Regardless of whether you are one of the customers who believed they transferred their telephone lines to Nine under threat of disconnection you are now with us. If you do want to nevertheless contract with Nine, despite the manner in which Nine has behaved and the court’s disapproval that is of course your decision. Please let us know and we will discuss arrangements with you to facilitate that process in line with your existing contractual obligations to BCS.


· Although the court did not approve of Nine’s recent behaviour and it sending bills out to you, it has agreed for the customers’ benefit that it would be too complicated to ‘unscramble’ that and so we are not going to double bill you for the amounts that Nine has already invoiced you for. To avoid double billing confusion and delays we agree you may pay Nine’s invoices which it has sent out previously and we also agree we will not be invoicing again in respect of those.

We will therefore shortly be sending out invoices for the periods you have not yet been invoiced for. These are as follows:

· Call charges for the period 1 November – 30 November 2015

· Call charges for period 1 December – 10 December 2015

· Line rental and broadband charges for 1 December – 10 December 2015

Nine as far as we are aware has already invoiced you for the following:-

· Line Rental, Broadband, Services, Itemised calls 10 Dec – 31 Dec

· Line Rental, Broadband and Services 1 Jan – 31 Jan

We will then be sending out invoices as usual for:

· Calls charges from 1 January – 31 January 2016 (as normal)

· Line rental from 1 February – 29 February 2016 (as normal)

We will then continue to invoice monthly in advance for rental services and in arrears for call charges, as we have done previously.

We would like to reiterate that this is for your information only and you do not need to do anything – these invoices will be processed automatically.

We would like to take this opportunity to apologise if you have had experienced problems in getting hold of us recently and thank you for your patience, our original customer service numbers have now been restored and are listed below. We look forward to continuing to provide your service and we greatly value your custom and recent support.


Kind Regards



Thursday, 21 January 2016 Account Number: PA1948



Dear Mr David O'Neil,



Thank you for your recent correspondence. However as per the terms and conditions of your contract we are unable to accept your notice, as it is not been received in the notice period:

20.1 This contract may be terminated in writing by either you or us for convenience by giving notice within 30 days of the end of minimum period or any renewal period, this request must be sent by Royal Mail recorded delivery

Your contract is due for renewal on 26th March 2018. Please inform us again in writing, sent by recorded delivery within 30 days of this date. Please be advised that if you do wish to terminate the agreement before the minimum contract period you may be liable for an early termination fee, as stated in the terms and conditions;



20.2 If the customer wishes to completely terminate their contract with Premier Calls they must pay the early termination fee of one hundred and ninety five pounds plus value added tax rate per line, which represents a fair and reasonable estimate of the losses, costs, and expenses, which Premier Calls would suffer in the event of the agreement being terminated prior to the end of the minimum duration period. The customer will also forfeit any service charges and line rentals paid in advance.




If you do have any further questions please don’t hesitate to contact the customer service team on the number below.








Dear Mr O’Neil 


Your complaint about Nine Telecom Ltd.



Thank you for your telephone call received on 1 March 2016.


Nine Telecom Ltd has eight weeks to give its final answer to your complaint. This date starts from when you first complained. If you are unhappy with how things turn out or do not receive an answer within this time then we may be able to help.


The only way we can become involved before eight weeks have passed is if the company has written to you with its full and final position. This is often called a deadlock letter and it will refer you to our service.


Your complaint appears to be less than eight weeks old so we cannot become involved yet.


We recommend that you continue to follow the company’s complaints code of practice. You can ask it to send you a copy of this, or find the information on its website.


It can be helpful to put your complaint in writing if you have not already done so. This will then form part of your evidence to support your complaint.


Please contact us again when the eight weeks have passed, or if you receive a deadlock letter and are still unhappy with the outcome.

When using our service you are free to seek independent advice and you are able to withdraw from the process at any time. For more information about Ombudsman Services visit our website


Yours sincerely


 Natasha Rhodes 

 Enquiry Officer 

My claim from Premier to resolve this issue.


Demands from Nine Telecom. £25.54 and £55.36.

Read and respond to emails @£10 per email. £100

Phone calls to both Premier and Nine Telecom @£10 per call £150

Damages due to Data Protection Breach. £900

Damages to personal credit rating due to potential CCJ action from Nine Telecom @£500 per year. £3000.

Nine Telecom court costs £75

Nine Telecom legal fees £200

Nine Telecom’s claim for statutory compensation £40.

Equitable claim as Premier for early termination of contract £195 + vat £234

Interest at 8% above base rate.

Money Claims court fee

up to £5000

court fee £205


Above is a list (not complete as I had deleted some) of emails between Premier and myself and also the amount claimed by Nine telecom.

I have included my reasonable charges for dealing with this matter as I normally charge £50 per hour for my services through my other businesses.

To resolve this matter I will accept a sum of £4984.90 plus interest at 8% above Bank Of England base rate. Interest is payable if settlement is not received before 8/5/2016 giving you 1 month to respond.


Kind Regards.


Dave O’Neill

 

[Claire F]

Hi Dave, I'll be interested to hear how you get on. I haven't heard any more, so hope that Nine have realised that they have accepted my payment in full and final settlement and as such now have to leave us alone. I like your list of fees - hope they pay up ;-) I hate it when people try to bully and its good to see that you clearly feel the same. Good luck.

 

[DavieO]

Just had a discussion with Premier. They are disputing my claim because I DID NOT HAVE A CONTRACT WITH THEM FOR ME TO CHARGE FOR SERVICES I PROVIDED. ie reply to letters,phonecalls or emails etc.
I will say they have a valid defence.
I said to them, 'That is exactly the defence I will be using to defend myself against Nine Telecom'.
I was then told that is not the case as there has been a court ruling.
I said, No, I have never been to court over this matter so the ruling does not apply to me. I then asked for them to provide all the court documents regarding their dispute with Nine Telecom about who claimed against who, for what reason and what was the outcome and was told that was a private matter and they would not provide that information. I said, If I was directed by the court to pay for these services then I should be entitled to see the complete record of the court proceedings and the judgement. Told no, that was a private matter between premier and nine. Said great, nothing to do with me. lol

 

[DavieO]

Surely a court cannot issue a judgement to a dispute whereby a third party who is not at the proceedings have to pay the second party to which they have no contract with.
I would have thought if party 2(Nine) wins then party 1(premier) has to pay. Party 1 then has to bill me according to our normal contract terms. If party 2 charge more than party1 then that is not my problem. Party 1 should pay the difference. I should not have to pay for any extra.

 

[Claire F]

Hi Dave, are you a member of the FSB? They can offer legal advice on things like this. When I spoke to them they seemed to support your view that you have no contract with Nine and as such they cannot take you to court. I totally agree that you should not have to pay any more to Nine than you would have paid to Premier Calls for the same service.

 

[Claire F]

Just a little addendum to this - I had my most recent bill from 'Premier Calls' on 20th April with a bill dated 12th April. It was very confusing - with charges that I have not paid before and a credit for some part of the bill - not clear what - but overall came to about £10 more than we would usually pay. I called them up and after 3 unsuccessful attempts to get through, finally spoke to Chris in Customer Support on 22nd April. After a long discussion we agreed that a credit of £10.06 was due. Chris advised that he would have to pass this on to a manger to be confirmed and that a credit would come through. I said that this needed sorting out before the payment was taken from us (I have a direct debit arrangement set up) - the payment was due 14 days from the date of the bill. Needless to say, nothing came through despite me sending an email to chase it up, so I phoned again today. This time I was advised that the credit had been arranged this morning, but no-one could tell me how much it was for. However when I checked the bank account the full amount had been taken from our account. I immediately cancelled the direct Debit (should have done it in the first place, I know!). So when the next bill comes through I will be able to pay the correct amount. So be warned - if you have any issues with the billing cancel any direct debit arrangements immediately. There doesn't appear to be any penalty for doing this, so I would advise everyone to cancel their direct debits and pay manually when the bills come through.

 

[DavieO]

A couple of replies from Premier. Please note this is confidential so don't tell anyone lol.

Strictly Private and Confidential: Not for publication

Dear Mr O’Neill,


I am writing further to your correspondence dated the 8th April 2016, in which you raised several issues in relation to the recent dispute between Premier Calls and Nine Telecom, and our telephone conversation on the 13th April 2016.


I would like to take this opportunity to clarify the current situation in regards to the invoices you have received from Nine Telecom. As advised in our letter dated the 17th February 2016, rather than unpicking the invoices that Nine Telecom had issued to customers, those invoices were permitted by the court to stand. As a result, Premier Calls cannot invoice for any of the period(s) that Nine Telecom has billed you for. The invoices you have received from Nine Telecom are for the services you were provided with during the relevant period, and should be paid. You have not been charged by Premier Calls for services during that period.


You have stated that you are seeking compensation for damages caused as a result of the above, as you believe that Premier Calls has provided your invoicing address and information to Nine Telecom in breach of the Data Protection Act 1998. As the provider of your telecoms services, Premier Calls provided the relevant supply and invoicing address to Nine Telecom as its wholesale supplier so that we could supply the service that we contracted with you to provide. As a result, we do not agree that your information has been provided to Nine Telecom in breach of the Data Protection Act.


In respect of your claim for £4,984.90 plus interest, your alleged claim is made up of a combination of damages for alleged breach of the Data Protection Act and costs or damages associated with Nine’s pursuit of you for unpaid fees. I do not accept that there is any legal basis on which you are able to claim those sums from Premier Calls. We reiterate that the services you have been billed for by Nine Telecom are services which would otherwise have been billed by Premier Calls had the dispute not arisen.


As regards the contractual situation between you and Premier Calls, I would like to stress that your contract has always been for supply by Premier Calls and as we have continued to supply you with a service (whether via Nine Telecom or another wholesaler), your contract remains valid. We are aware that you have experienced billing issues as a result of the dispute with Nine Telecom, and we do apologise for this, but that does not invalidate your contract with Premier Calls.


In appreciation of the issues you have experienced, we have agreed to review your invoices from Nine Telecom that you have now provided and I will revert with a proposal to bring this to what I hope will be an amicable resolution.


Kind Regards

Email 2

Strictly Private and Confidential: Not for publication


Dear Mr O’Neill,


I am writing further to the documentation that you have provided on the 13th April 2016 in respect of the invoices sent to you by Nine Telecom.


As advised in our previous email, we do not accept that your claim for £4,984.90 has any legal basis. Therefore, we have undertaken a review of the information you have provided in respect of the fees that you have been charged by Nine Telecom for services and subsequent costs only.


The documentation that you have provided shows that the two invoices you have been charged by Nine Telecom total £80.90. The documentation also advises of a £40 non-payment fee along with interest at 8% above the base rate of 0.5% set by the Bank of England.


Having reviewed your account further, we are willing to offer you a credit to your Premier Calls account of £80.90 in respect of the services that Nine Telecom have invoiced you for. This offer is made as a gesture of goodwill in order to assist with the issues you are experiencing with Nine Telecom.


In respect of the interest charge on top of the invoices and the £40 non-payment fee, as these are charges generated by your non-payment of the invoices and not charges generated as a result of Premier Calls billing dispute with Nine Telecom, we do not deem it reasonable for Premier Calls to offer to pay these fees in addition to the above offer.


I do hope that my offer is acceptable to you. Please let me know within 14 days of the date of this letter whether you wish to accept my offer by calling, emailing or writing to me as follows:

Oh boy, where do I start.
I have several emails form Premier saying :- Do Not Pay Nine, We will invoice you for the period concerned. They now say they will not be invoicing me for that period. I should pay Nine telecom.
Sorry, my contract is with Premier, so if they won't invoice me then thanks for the free service.
Why should I pay Nine when I have no contract with them?

Premier do not accept there is any legal basis for my claim for damages so I would argue that they should bill me for the dates concerned or accept they did not fulfil the contract to supply services. If they subcontracted the service then they should pay Nine telecom for the service they agreed to and then bill be for the service we agreed to.

They go on to say that any charges accrued due to non payment to Nine telecom are my fault and they will not accept liability. I have numerous emails from Premier where they INSTRUCT me NOT to pay Nine Telecom. So I abide by their instruction and then they tell me any dispute with Nine is my fault. Aye right.

They have offered to credit my account for £80.90. I have not yet accepted their offer
I may contact them and ask for a cheque payable to Nine telecom so that I can pass it on.

Means I save face lol by not paying Nine as I originally stated. Or I get Premier to send me a cheque for the amount, and I still don't pay Nine. That would be a laugh.

I am also looking at changing service providers and then cancel my direct debit with Premier to see what they do. I would love to see them take me to court for cancellation fees.

 

[Claire F]

Hi DavieO, thanks for the update I admire your tenacity and agree with the points you have raised. It doesn't seem right that decisions about who we pay are made on our behalf with no involvement on our part. Just been rung by Premier Calls regarding the overcharge on the invoice, but then put through to the main customer support line and left on hold. I can't be bothered with that, so hung up. As I've cancelled the direct debit now they will have to accept what I think is the correct payment next time! Can't wait until the contract ends, although whether anyone else can offer a better service remains to be seen. Good luck and let me know how it goes!

 

[AnnaDanishek]

I hate it when businesses are not honest. I can't get through on Premier Calls' 0845 number this morning - it just says it has not been recognised.Not getting a good feeling about this. Might be it is time for changing

 

[Claire F]

Hi AnnaD, I had the same problem - it seems to be intermittently unavailable. Try this number: 01442353100, which comes on their invoices. Then ask for customer service. Hope that helps.

 

[Claire F]

As far as I understand the situation, there is little we can do until we are out of contract with Premier Calls. I don't think you can get out of the contract early without paying the penalty if they change supplier as I believe it is not specified who is the actual service provider is in the contract. After the initial issues with the change over (loss of fixed IP and of 1471 service) we have not seen any change in the quality of our broadband or phone service.

 

[Verastar Ltd]

I hate it when businesses are not honest. I can't get through on Premier Calls' 0845 number this morning - it just says it has not been recognised.Not getting a good feeling about this. Might be it is time for changing

We’re sorry that you experienced problems in getting through to our 0845 number this morning. Unfortunately we had a technical issue, but that has now been resolved so you should have no further issues contacting us. Alternatively, if you send us a private message with your contact details we will arrange for a customer service adviser to call you back.