Nine Telecom vs. Optimum Calls, where do I stand?

[HiRiseHarry]

Hi all,
I signed a contract for two years with Optimum Calls in October, they are a telecom service who I have been with for several years and have been perfectly happy with (despite their appalling reviews). Before Christmas I got a letter from a crowd called Nine Telecom claiming to be their service providers and that Optimum, along with various other companies who operate under common ownership, had had that service provision withdrawn by Nine Telecom due to 'various legal breaches'. They claim I now have my telephone service supplied by them, and that Optimum have ceased to be my telecom supplier since Dec 10th.
I assumed fraud, so phoned Optimum since my contract is with them, but they were impossible to contact over Christmas, and are now running on another 0845 number. They claim it is a fraud, and to ignore, and that they cancelled the contract, with Nine Telecom etc. however I received another letter, much the same, with an itemised bill, not threatening but again the same story. They certainly have all my personal details to hand which is slightly concerning.
My question is, if I have a contract with Optimum then I assume that I continue to ignore this unless the phone stops working, but if Optimum are no longer supplying a service, what is my position and how can I find this out? What happens if the phone then does stop working? I don't trust either side, but there is inexplcably nothing on the web about this. I can't believe all the other customers are just jumping ship or ignoring Nine Telecom's letters without asking the question somewhere. How can I find out what is going on, and what do you think I should do?

 

[cjd]

Sounds like a right mess. I'd call nine and ask why you're getting bills from them when you don't have a contract with them. Then, when you have both sides of the story call Ofcom and ask them what's going on. Ofcom probably won't know, but it's doubtful you're the only one.

Is this a VoIP service or traditional stuff?

 

[Louise Abbey]

Hello,

I work at Nine Telecom. Nine Telecom currently provides your services; you should have received an invoice from us which detailed your recent usage. We also emailed you login details to your online account, where you can analyse your usage and access digital copies of your invoices.

As the commenter above suggested, I recommend you give the team here at Nine a call. Your post above doesn't give me an indication of who you are, otherwise I'd arrange for someone to call you. Once you've spoken to us, we encourage you to speak with Ofcom who will confirm what we have said.

We understand that this situation is frustrating. We encourage you to call us on the number printed on your letter.

 

[MikeJ]

He doesn't have a contract with you though, does he? So why would he pay you anything?

 

[HiRiseHarry]

And why is therenothing on either Nine, or Optimum's websites about this?
Louise you don't know who I am because I don't trust either side currently and don't need cold calls and more untruths. Telecoms sales have a reputation as you are aware...

 

[HiRiseHarry]

Sounds like a right mess. I'd call nine and ask why you're getting bills from them when you don't have a contract with them. Then, when you have both sides of the story call Ofcom and ask them what's going on. Ofcom probably won't know, but it's doubtful you're the only one.

Is this a VoIP service or traditional stuff?

Traditional stuff, and thanks for the answer, I am relieved it looks like a mess to others as well!

 

[japancool]

It looks to me like Optimum were billing you for services that were supplied by Nine, but have probably not paid Nine or owe them lots of money. So Nine have taken direct control of your account under a reversion clause in their contract and are now billing you directly.

Optimum are probably disputing this.

These sorts of situations aren't common but are far from rare in the telecoms industry, because the number of resellers (such as Optimum) who go bust is quite high, and reversion clauses are again, not uncommon.

You won't find any reference to it on either Nine or Optimum's sites for legal reasons, if it's still in dispute.

 

[poolman]

Hi Hiriseharry

Got exactly the same identical problem but with Premier calls. Todays' email basically said that don't phone unless you have a fault and would email when any further developments happen.
Did get through late Monday and was told court case was "going on now" and would be contacted (email) in the next day or so. Billing been a bit erratic/errors these last few months, seems like Nine telecom aren't performing properly and our companies can't pay/won't pay.
Did you get any reduction on the bill line rental when you renewed your contract with Optimum? I was offered £15 a month credit for 3 months but managed to increase it to 6 months due to historical overcharges. No use now if they fold

 

[japancool]

As to what to do - as long as your service is working ok, you're happy with it, and you're not getting any rate increases, there's no reason for you not to stick with it. If Nine have previously been supplying your services anyway, nothing will change as far as the quality of the service goes.

If you want to leave them, just contract with another telecoms company to take over your line and calls. They shouldn't be able to stop you from leaving since you don't have a contract with them.

 

[poolman]

Got the following from Premier calls earlier this evening.

Dear Sir/Madam


We are writing in relation to the correspondence you have received from Nine Telecom Limited (“Nine Telecom”) since 23 December 2015. At the outset, we apologise for the inevitable confusion as to who is the identity of your service provider and would like to explain the position now and for the future in terms of your service.

The letter from Nine Telecom mentioned that the wholesale service contracts (that is, the contracts under which we obtained the services which we supplied to you) between Nine Telecom’s wholesale affiliate (Club Communications Limited, which trades as Nine Wholesale – “Nine Wholesale”), and each of Advantage, Optimum, Premier and Talk Plus were terminated recently due to various legal breaches. Unfortunately Nine did not give you the full picture.


The issues referred to by Nine Telecom are the subject of legal proceedings in the High Court and are a matter of dispute between us and the two Nine companies.

Firstly, we say that we are not in breach of contract.


Secondly, we say that we have terminated our contract with Nine Wholesale and not the other way around (due to Nine’s own breaches of the contracts).


Thirdly, it is not correct and is in fact misleading for Nine to suggest that we are in some way not continuing in business. Advantage, Optimum, Premier and Talk Plus are brands of Business Comms Solution Ltd (“BCS”). This means that your agreements have, since 2013, been with BCS directly and not each of those four brands. Therefore, it is not relevant that Advantage Telecom Limited, has been dissolved, as the business which it previously ran is now part of BCS after a business transfer of its assets.


Previously we asked Nine Wholesale as an intermediary to provide certain services on our behalf. After termination, we sought to make alternative arrangements to ensure the continuity of your telecoms services going forwards. Nine attempted to block this then sought to step into our shoes to provide these services directly to you instead of via us without authority. This resulted in their letter to you of 23 December 2015 titled ‘a very warm welcome to Nine Telecom’. For a number of reasons Nine should not have done this.

To avoid further confusion and after taking legal advice and consulting with Ofcom we asked the court to provide a ruling as to who should be entitled to provide your services moving forward in the period before a trial of the claim we have brought takes place. A hearing took place on 11 January 2016 and 14 January 2016, at which the Court ordered that Nine is not allowed to continue to block the transfer of your telecom services to a new wholesale supplier through BCS. Therefore any threats Nine has previously made to you that they are going to cut off your services if you do not pay your bill with Nine are without foundation (in addition the most recent threats in that regard have been criticised by the court as an attempt to frustrate the will of the court and so was clearly wrong and inappropriate).

 

[poolman]

Sorry - wouldn't let me post whole reply on one page.

This means that:


·BCS will be continuing to provide your telephone and broadband services going forwards as they have been and there is no further action that you need to take;

·Nine has been ordered to not provide any further bills to you.

·Regardless of whether you are one of the customers who believed they transferred their telephone lines to Nine under threat of disconnection you are now with us. If you do want to nevertheless contract with Nine, despite the manner in which Nine has behaved and the court’s disapproval that is of course your decision. Please let us know and we will discuss arrangements with you to facilitate that process in line with your existing contractual obligations to BCS.


·Although the court did not approve of Nine’s recent behaviour and it sending bills out to you, it has agreed for the customers’ benefit that it would be too complicated to ‘unscramble’ that and so we are not going to double bill you for the amounts that Nine has already invoiced you for. To avoid double billing confusion and delays we agree you may pay Nine’s invoices which it has sent out previously and we also agree we will not be invoicing again in respect of those.

We will therefore shortly be sending out invoices for the periods you have not yet been invoiced for. These are as follows:

·Call charges for the period 1 November – 30 November 2015

·Call charges for period 1 December – 10 December 2015

·Line rental and broadband charges for 1 December – 10 December 2015

Nine as far as we are aware has already invoiced you for the following:-

·Line Rental, Broadband, Services, Itemised calls 10 Dec – 31 Dec

·Line Rental, Broadband and Services 1 Jan – 31 Jan

We will then be sending out invoices as usual for:

·Calls charges from 1 January – 31 January 2016 (as normal)

·Line rental from 1 February – 29 February 2016 (as normal)

We will then continue to invoice monthly in advance for rental services and in arrears for call charges, as we have done previously.

We would like to reiterate that this is for your information only and you do not need to do anything – these invoices will be processed automatically.

We would like to take this opportunity to apologise if you have had experienced problems in getting hold of us recently and thank you for your patience, our original customer service numbers have now been restored and are listed below. We look forward to continuing to provide your service and we greatly value your custom and recent support.


Kind Regards


Tel: 0845 241 4668

Very complicated but seems that I'm supposed to pay Nine for their service because it's too difficult to cancel bill (like anybody else would) and re issue from original supplier.
Their call charging is quite different - all landline and mobile are 9P + Vat for up to an hour.
Was paying 0.9P per minute capped at 5P up to an hour, 9-12½P for mobiles capped at 20P. Originally not supposed to pay any connection charges and this was supposed to be re-instated recently but required manual credits being done after invoice was raised. Also supposed to get free Caller Display which Nine are charging for. Haven't worked it out exactly but does seem a lot more expensive from Nine.

Will see when all the bills arrive - Premier calls were "a bit behind" recently.

 

[japancool]

Told you so.

 

[My Owl 1]

Sounds a real mess. I would suggest reviewing your phone contracts and transferring them to another source. There are many out there which provide good service, excellent bolt on broadband and definitely at lower per minute prices than that.
CJD if they have a contract with the original supplier and then it is transferred to another, I think I am right that this means the original contract is breached if no formal contact has been made with the clients.

 

[japancool]

Very complicated but seems that I'm supposed to pay Nine for their service because it's too difficult to cancel bill (like anybody else would) and re issue from original supplier.
Their call charging is quite different - all landline and mobile are 9P + Vat for up to an hour.
Was paying 0.9P per minute capped at 5P up to an hour, 9-12½P for mobiles capped at 20P. Originally not supposed to pay any connection charges and this was supposed to be re-instated recently but required manual credits being done after invoice was raised. Also supposed to get free Caller Display which Nine are charging for. Haven't worked it out exactly but does seem a lot more expensive from Nine.

The original supplier cannot issue a bill for you, because the services were supplied by Nine, who were just selling Nine's services. Nine will be, in this case, refusing to give your call data records to Premier/Optimum, because if they do that, and you pay Optimum, Nine won't get paid by Optimum. So Nine are billing you direct.

Nine also have no way of knowing what Optimum were charging you on calls, unless Optimum tell them, so they've put you on their standard rate. Nine might be willing to price match Optimum if you ask them.

 

[japancool]

Sounds a real mess. I would suggest reviewing your phone contracts and transferring them to another source. There are many out there which provide good service, excellent bolt on broadband and definitely at lower per minute prices than that.
CJD if they have a contract with the original supplier and then it is transferred to another, I think I am right that this means the original contract is breached if no formal contact has been made with the clients.

The customer never made a contract with Nine so they're under no obligation to remain with them. Whether they would be obligated to pay them for the usage on the Nine bill is arguable, but would probably need to be tested in court.

The last time I was involved in a situation like this, most customers simply left and there was very little the telecoms provider (who I worked for) could do about it.

 

[My Owl 1]

Thanks for the clarification on that Japancool I thought that I was correct that they could move away.

 

[poolman]

Please let us know and we will discuss arrangements with you to facilitate that process in line with your existing contractual obligations to BCS.

I think this means "We will charge you £x per line early termination fee" - All these companies are quite vicious if you want to leave early as the fees are usually around £200 or so.

 

[japancool]

I think this means "We will charge you £x per line early termination fee" - All these companies are quite vicious if you want to leave early as the fees are usually around £200 or so.

They will normally attempt to charge you the remainder of the line rental to the end of your contract. Do you know how much you are paying per month and how much longer you have on your contract?

 

[poolman]

£12.99 x 3 plus £19.99 Broadband - Contract renewal was for 36 months in October. I also get a £15 a month credit on rental for first 6 months

 

[japancool]

If they choose to (try and) enforce it, they could charge you £1886.72, by my calculation.

You could argue that they are in breach of contract though.

 

[cjd]

This isn't legal advice, just my opinion.

It seems to me that you still have a contract with your original provider. All that's changed is that they have been unable to bill you for a few months due to problems that have nothing to do with you.

You have no requirement to pay a bill from a third party that you have no contract with.

It's a matter of commercial convenience whether your existing company wishes to back-date a bill for the missing months. They appear to not want to - or possibly not have the data.

So far it seems that your original provider has not breached your contract so attempting to leave could create a large outstanding payment for you.

Personally, so long as the service continues as normal, I'd carry on but if they breach, move immediately. Just be aware that your numbers may disappear. I'd also refuse to pay Nine for the obvious reason that you don't have to - imo.

Oh, and never, ever sign a telecoms contract for longer than 12 months. In fact there's no need to have anything more than a month.

 

[it-comms]

(1) If Advantage Telecom OR BCS Limited purchase wholesale services why does Nine Wholesale have access to the end user details? This should not be the case.

something is not right here.

The letter from Nine Telecom mentioned that the wholesale service contracts (that is, the contracts under which we obtained the services which we supplied to you) between Nine Telecom’s wholesale affiliate (Club Communications Limited, which trades as Nine Wholesale – “Nine Wholesale”), and each of Advantage, Optimum, Premier and Talk Plus were terminated recently due to various legal breaches. Unfortunately Nine did not give you the full picture.

So if my understanding is connect Optimum purchased the services from Nine and the end user contract is with BCS

I see that PLATINUM TELECOM UK LTD, TALK PLUS TELECOM LIMITED are both owned by the same directors and both companies are in breach of the companies act for not filing company accounts of which one of these companies is now facing enforcement action by way of compulsory strike-off. This is actually a criminal offense.

Thirdly, it is not correct and is in fact misleading for Nine to suggest that we are in some way not continuing in business. Advantage, Optimum, Premier and Talk Plus are brands of Business Comms Solution Ltd (“BCS”). This means that your agreements have, since 2013, been with BCS directly and not each of those four brands. Therefore, it is not relevant that Advantage Telecom Limited, has been dissolved, as the business which it previously ran is now part of BCS after a business transfer of its assets.

 

[it-comms]

This might be the case for some services, but not always commercially viable for the provider if the end user requests a Bespoke Solution or what happens in this case the contract term between the wholesale provider "Nine" and the end users provider "BCS" could be on a 12 month term for PSTN Line Rental? BCS are not going to then give the end user a 30 day contract surely?

What i am trying to get at every wholesale provider may have different terms to each other. just because your provider may offer you 30 day terms of which then allows you to offer 30 days to your end users does not mean that generally end users should not sign for more then 30days.

a lot depends on the services requested, the parties involved etc.

Having a 12 month contract also can offer you better deals then being on a 30 day contract, it also offers the provider some security to reinvest in its services and know its got contracts to cover for at least a year at a time. with a provider with 30 day contracts. they could be here today and out of business next month if the wholesale provider increased the fees which meant the provider had to also increase the fees to end users.

Oh, and never, ever sign a telecoms contract for longer than 12 months. In fact there's no need to have anything more than a month.

 

[cjd]

BCS are not going to then give the end user a 30 day contract surely?

I have no idea what BCS do - but it's quite possible for retailers to offer end-users different terms to those that they get themselves from the wholesaler. They just take on the commercial risk.

Having a 12 month contract also can offer you better deals then being on a 30 day contract, it also offers the provider some security to reinvest in its services and know its got contracts to cover for at least a year at a time. with a provider with 30 day contracts. they could be here today and out of business nextmonth if the wholesale provider increased the fees which meantthe provider had to also increase the fees to end users.

You often get a better deal the longer you sign up for, but then you have no idea whether that deal is still good one in 12 or 24 or 36 month's time. And, if you find yourself in the kind of mess our OP is in or just needing to change for whatever reason, you lose. Telecoms is dirt cheap these day - there's no reason to go looking for even cheaper deals - you're just going to find a poor service.

It shows confidence on behalf of the service provider if they offer 30 day contracts - it means that a customer can leave for a competitor at the drop of a hat if they wish, so they have to be really good at what they do to keep people.

 

[japancool]

(1) If Advantage Telecom OR BCS Limited purchase wholesale services why does Nine Wholesale have access to the end user details? This should not be the case.

something is not right here.

Nine provide an outsourced billing service via the Billie platform that they acquired when they bought Club. I imagine Optimum/BCS/Premier were probably using that, which would give Nine access to their customer data.

Now, whether they should have used it or not is another question.

 

[it-comms]

ah right ok, makes sense now.

Not a good move on BCS part as it really limits them and ties them into Nine.

If they had their own billing system, they may have been able to avoid some of the billing issues assuming they still had access to daily cdr files.

Nine provide an outsourced billing service via the Billie platform that they acquired when they bought Club. I imagine Optimum/BCS/Premier were probably using that, which would give Nine access to their customer data.

Now, whether they should have used it or not is another question.

 

[Davidlever15]

I have now received email from Optimum Calls as above, after reading it I see no reason why I would pay Nine telecom for the bill I had....I haven't got a direct debit with Nine and didn't ask them to contact me!!

 

[japancool]

It's not really Nine who are at fault here. They presumably haven't been paid by Optimum, so I'm not sure what the hostility towards them seems to be.

 

[DN_GTL]

Hello,

I work at Nine Telecom. Nine Telecom currently provides your services; you should have received an invoice from us which detailed your recent usage. We also emailed you login details to your online account, where you can analyse your usage and access digital copies of your invoices.

As the commenter above suggested, I recommend you give the team here at Nine a call. Your post above doesn't give me an indication of who you are, otherwise I'd arrange for someone to call you. Once you've spoken to us, we encourage you to speak with Ofcom who will confirm what we have said.

We understand that this situation is frustrating. We encourage you to call us on the number printed on your letter.

Hi Louise,

Any chance you could tell me how to get hold of someone at nine telecom, I have written two emails to customer service and had no response and have tried every combination of menu choices on your website advertised 'contact us' number only to find that each one leads to nowhere...

 

[DN_GTL]

Hi Louise,

Any chance you could tell me how to get hold of someone at nine telecom, I have written two emails to customer service and had no response and have tried every combination of menu choices on your website advertised 'contact us' number only to find that each one leads to nowhere...

Guess not...

 

[Square Comms]

Hi all

i have just read over these posts. i was aware of this issue with these company's but only due to a company that we look after having services with one of these company's they ask us to transfer the services over to us, so we did, then they got a bill for early cancellation. we then picked it up from there on, after a number of phone calls we managed to speak to someone, good job it was not to report a fault. i explain that they where in breach of contract with our client and pointed out why, they backed down and withdraw the invoice for cancellation. I'm ex Ofcom so knowing the legal obligation of a service provider does help, i know not all will know this or have the time to research this but it is the only way to deal with company's like this i'm sorry to say.

If i can help anyone with telecom issue let me know, i will try to point you in the correct direct.

 

[coldebs]

Has anyone found a good telecom provider to move to. I'm also caught between the legal battle between optimum and nine telecom. I've not had a bill from optimum since November 2015 and am getting concerned that I will loose two lines I have with them. I'm starting to think its best to move to another supplier. I'm not very trusting of telecom providers as I was one of the earlier customers to optimum who was conned by the whole 60 month contract that sounds like 6 months. By the time I'd realised there was nothing I could do and the charges were very high. Eventually they came up with a set price of 35£ per month for unlimited calls. I'm no longer in a contract with them but still thered customer. Any advice would be much appreciated

 

[cjd]

There are a few no-contract providers around now. Usually they're the newer VoIP providers. If you pick one that's a member of ITSPA your numbers are protected.

We can help if you like - 020 7043 5555.

 

[poolman]

Hi everyone - just received this along with bill for November and 1st week December by email.

Was signed by both Premier & Nine Telecom.

Don't see why I should pay Nine Telecom as I never asked to go with them and never agreed
their expensive call charges 9P per call plus other charges much more expensive. This latest bill from Premier or BCS was less than £4 for 60+ calls.

The Email, as follows


Joint Statement
You may be aware that Business Comms Solution Ltd (“BCS”), which trades under the Advantage, Optimum,
Premier and Talk Plus brands, has been in dispute recently with its former wholesale provider of telecoms
services, Club Communications which trades as Nine Wholesale, as well as Nine Wholesale’s sister company,
Nine Telecom.
This is a joint communication from BCS and the Nine Group to let you know that we have settled our dispute.
The detailed terms of that settlement are confidential but from your perspective what you need to know is:
• Going forward you will remain customers of BCS.
• The invoices that you have received from Nine Telecom still must be paid by the due date shown
on those invoices – this includes invoices for:
• Line and broadband rental for the periods 10th to 31st December 2015 and 1st to 31st January
2016.
• Call charges and broadband over-use charges for the period 10th to 31st December 2015.
Where you have received a fibre broadband invoice for January to March 2016 Nine Telecom
will be sending you a credit note for February and March but the balance for January should still
be paid.
• BCS will not be invoicing you for any charges that have already been invoiced by Nine Telecom – so
there is no risk of duplicate payments
• Future invoices will be issued by BCS only.
Both BCS and Nine Wholesale/Nine Telecom regret any confusion or inconvenience that may have arisen from
our recent communications and are glad that we can now draw a line under our dispute. Thank you for your
understanding and co operation.

 

[cjd]

Depends how arsy you want to be - you have a contract with BCS only, so you have a case for saying that they can go swivel. But a more reasonable approach would be to say that you're happy to pay for the services that you have used at BCS's prices.Ask for a recalculated bill.

 

[Martyn Cowley]

Square Comms - you mention: "i explain that they where in breach of contract with our client and pointed out why" - could you expand on this please, as I am in the same situation with Advantage and have scheduled a transfer of services to Zen (my current Broadband provider) so they may attempt to impose an early termination fee.

 

[poolman]

Update - Statement from Nine Telecom yesterday plus threat of debt management agency if not paid by 11th March.
As you would expect from a telephone communications company - no phone number if you have a query on any of the paperwork - just bank details and postal address.

Found number on website but when you phone says if your account number begins with 55 to phone another number. Waited quite a while - just rings and rings yet their website promises lots of hi-tech innovations and solutions to manage your communications more effectively - more people to answer phones maybe?

Tried first number again and eventually get the option (as they are also so busy) to press "1" to leave a message for them to contact me but the phone rings again. After 5th attempt got a space where I could actually speak and leave a message. 3+ hours later and no returned call, surprise surprise.

Will wait and see what happens next!

 

[Claire F]

We are with Premier Calls and discovered two days ago that our phone line had changed - we no longer had our fixed IP address and had lost the 1471 facility. Originally Premier Calls told me that an application had been made on 22/2/2016 to transfer our line to another provider and that although they had refused the request, the transfer had gone ahead and that was why these things had changed. This was all news to me, so they put in a request to get the line back, but advised me that this process would take 14 days. They could not tell me who had taken the line over, however when I asked where this leaves me legally in terms of who is supplying our line and broadband and who will bill me for this, I was then informed that the line had not gone to another provider, but has been changed from WLR to MPF - whatever that means - with 'no changes to us' - apart from losing the fixed IP and 1471 apparently. They are going to reinstate the fixed IP and 1471 facility. This is all very confusing and annoying. Losing the fixed IP has caused us a number of issues. Will investigate further to find out if it is possible for another provider to take over our line without notification to us. Would be interested to hear from anyone else who has been through the same loop.

 

[poolman]

Hi Claire F - very interesting! Can't check now as I'm at home but did have contact on Monday with them, asked to speak with a certain person but "had never heard of her" It seems this new company have "taken over Premier calls" (answered phone as Premier calls) but are now based in Manchester and probably part of another group - need to find out what is going on.
I'm still refusing to pay Nine Telecom as my bill was considerably more expensive than I had agreed with Premier due largely to concessions negotiated originally and loyalty credits due to renew contract late last year and to compensate for previous overcharges. Will report back soon. Also noticed that Business Comms recently (29th Feb) filed their company accounts - no mention of selling company - not allowed to put link in reply - companieshouse 07376869

 

[Claire F]

Hi Poolman, there certainly seem to be a number of unanswered questions here! In the meantime - I have paid Nine Telecom for the calls during the period they were providing our line and for the line and broadband - but I only paid the lowest fee they quoted (Gold Bundle), which brought the bill in line with what I would have paid to Premier Calls over the same period. As I have not signed any contract with them I don't think they can ask for more. I said that the amount sent was in 'full and final payment' for the services provided, so I hope that is the last I will hear from them. I am not sure where you stand legally if you have had a service supplied by someone who you don't have a contract with. If you send unsolicited goods out the recipient is not obliged to pay for them, but I am not sure how this might apply to services, they can hardly ask for them to be returned.
I can't say that this experience has done a lot for my confidence in going outside BT for my phone line and broadband. I moved away from the latter due to their confusing billing policies, the way they changed terms and conditions unilaterally when ever they wanted (even during a contract period) and the fact that you never got to speak to the same person twice - but I did not expect to get caught up in another company's quarrels!!