New tool for "not provided" and long-tail keywords

[Miroslav Chodak]

Would anybody be interested in BETA testing our new keyword tool?

It extends the capability of Google Search Console well beyond what you currently get through Google's own user interface.

For example, with SearchConsoleHelper you can get all your "not provided" and long-tail keywords along with the corresponding landing page URLs and data about impressions, rank positions, clicks and click-through rates. You can also filter and manipulate the data any way you want.

I'm not allowed to post links yet, so I cannot send you to our website. But, if you have questions, I'm happy to answer them here.

 

[Hospitality_king]

Long tail keywords provide only minimal clickthrough - sue to unpopularity as they are not what people type into to do searches. Eg:

Major keyword get millions of searches Vs long-tail getting only 100k spread out over 20k of shared companies using it.

 

[Miroslav Chodak]

Long tail keywords provide only minimal clickthrough - sue to unpopularity as they are not what people type into to do searches. Eg:

Major keyword get millions of searches Vs long-tail getting only 100k spread out over 20k of shared companies using it.

I don't know who you are and I don't want to offend you. But, for the benefit of whoever reads this, I must point out that you cannot be further from the truth. In fact, exactly the opposite is true: the majority of searches are performed for long-tail keywords AND the more specific a keyword (read long-tail), the higher the conversion. In other words, the money is in the long-tail. A simple research will show you that I'm right, so I'm not going to bother with the details.

 

[Clinton]

@Miroslav Chodak
I take it that this is your site. What are the repercussions of pulling so much of data from Google?

 

[Miroslav Chodak]

Hi, yes that's our website. There are no repercussions. In fact, the data comes through Google's own API, within their own rules.

 

[Elliottc26]

Long tail keywords provide only minimal clickthrough - sue to unpopularity as they are not what people type into to do searches. Eg:

Major keyword get millions of searches Vs long-tail getting only 100k spread out over 20k of shared companies using it.

The reason shorter keywords get larger search volumes is because it's more of a broader term and will display for all searches that feature those words - doesn't mean everyone is looking to buy - if you want to sell, there's no point in having 1million users if only 300 of them are those searching for a service. Therefore, longer tail will be more specific, and will be more likely to convert, easier to target, and cost less from a CPA perspective.

For instance:

• nanny
• nanny agency
• nanny agency london
• leading nanny agency london

If you just want traffic, target the shorter ones. If you want targeted traffic and enquiries, target more specific.

But you'll display for more related terms than just the chosen words. So, "nanny agency london" will display (say on PPC) for the terms that feature this match, phrase, or exact wordage depending on your targeting criteria.

Quantity is meaningless and bad, bad advice. And the more specific terms still require the use of negative terms to filter out other users that are searching, for example, for jobs, careers, how to become a nanny, etc.,.

 

[Hospitality_king]

In fact, exactly the opposite is true: the majority of searches are performed for long-tail keywords

The only reason long-tail exists is cos its cheap - and cheap is popular amongst desperate cos they cant afford anything else but cheap keywords n thats why these silly long tails exist my friend.

Put it another way - if long tails were more popular than mainstream keywords - then Google would charge more for them so Travel would cost less wont it - which will never happen in million years.

just cos a ton of minimal effect keywords are bought by the stupid, don't mean searchers will type in those words.

 

[Elliottc26]

The only reason long-tail exists is cos its cheap - and cheap is popular amongst desperate cos they cant afford anything else but cheap keywords n thats why these silly long tails exist my friend.

Put it another way - if long tails were more popular than mainstream keywords - then Google would charge more for them so Travel would cost less wont it - which will never happen in million years.

just cos a ton of minimal effect keywords are bought by the stupid, don't mean searchers will type in those words.

Long-tail exists because that's what people place in the search bar before pressing the "Go!" button and seeing their results pages. If no one searched using these terms, they wouldn't exist. These terms aren't made up from thin air.

 

[Hospitality_king]

The reason shorter keywords get larger search volumes is because it's more of a broader term and will display for all searches that feature those words

Agreed - but a searcher doesn't think like an advertiser cos advertiser chooses their keywords cos advertiser/site owner is obsessed with only rankings and not clickthrough.. To be success a biz owner got to think like a searcher and what a searcher types in - not wot a ranking chaser wants to see.

ok -you tell me what keywords u rank for and I'll tell you what id search to find you and see if your theory stands up ok..

 

[Elliottc26]

Agreed - but a searcher doesn't think like an advertiser cos advertiser chooses their keywords cos advertiser/site owner is obsessed with only rankings and not clickthrough.. To be success a biz owner got to think like a searcher and what a searcher types in - not wot a ranking chaser wants to see.

ok -you tell me what keywords u rank for and I'll tell you what id search to find you and see if your theory stands up ok..

It's not a theory. It's what works. Nice try...

CTR isn't the main aim, it's conversion.

It's actually the other way around. An advertiser thinks like a searcher and is why they target the keywords that they do - based on actual search data and knowing the target market, not on assumptions or guess work.

For me, I don't want to waste client money and stack up the budget to silly levels when this isn't necessary - it's burning money; wasting it. So, you filter out the users, as best as you can, that aren't relevant to your website. This then becomes cost effective and profitable.

So, targeting Nanny may cost you £60 per conversion; whereas targeting a longer tail, and using negatives may cost you £5 per conversion, for example. More affordable, and worthwhile.

 

[Miroslav Chodak]

The only reason long-tail exists is cos its cheap - and cheap is popular amongst desperate cos they cant afford anything else but cheap keywords n thats why these silly long tails exist my friend.

Put it another way - if long tails were more popular than mainstream keywords - then Google would charge more for them so Travel would cost less wont it - which will never happen in million years.

just cos a ton of minimal effect keywords are bought by the stupid, don't mean searchers will type in those words.

There are so many flaws in your argument that I'm not even going to attempt to correct you. If you want to discuss the merits of long-tail keywords, please open a new thread, don't hijack this one.

Otherwise, what Elliottc26 said...

 

[UKSBD]

Looks interesting, but what do you do with the data it collect from our search consoles?

 

[fisicx]

Can't find the report now but a while back Google gave out some stats that showed there are more long tail searches than single or double word searches. 5+ word searches are very common and much more lucrative than generic searches.

 

[Miroslav Chodak]

Looks interesting, but what do you do with the data it collect from our search consoles?

We don't collect anything. Search Console Helper is a tool that allows you to extract YOUR own data from YOUR own Google Search Console account. Most importantly, the tools extends the capability of Google Search Console well beyond what you currently get through Google's own user interface.

For example, the current version of the software already can:

• Query and retrieve an almost unlimited amount of data from Google (as opposed to the 1000-row-of-data limit currently imposed in Google's own interface). So you get data for all your keywords and all your landing pages even if you have millions of keywords/URLs. Btw, this includes data for all the "not provided" keywords, too.
  
  
• Combine, filter and otherwise manipulate all the queried data. So, you get a complete view of your site's performance. Some of the things you will be able to do:
  • See all the keywords a given landing page is currently ranking for, including the position in Google Search, where it's ranking (by search type, device and/or country), how many impressions and clicks it's getting and what is the CTR.
  • See all the landing pages that come up in Google Search for a given keyword.
  • Filter the data any way you want (e.g. web vs image search, mobile vs desktop, USA vs UK, etc.).
  • Are there any under-performing keywords that need more attention or any new keywords that present a low-hanging-fruit traffic opportunity?
  • Are there any potential quality issues (e.g. pages that don't rank)?
  • Are we potentially cannibalizing traffic by lower-priority pages?
  • ... and more.
    
• Ability to store and then view historical data (beyond the Google-imposed limit of 3 months). So, as long as you are using the software long enough, you can easily compare year-on-year performance, view seasonal trends, etc.
  
  
• Do all this for any combination of the following:
  • Keywords
  • Landing pages/URLs/websites
  • Ranking positions
  • Impressions
  • Clicks
  • CTR
  • search types: web, image, video
  • devices: desktop, mobile, tablet
  • across 200 countries

 

[Spock]

Sounds good but you don't support Mac's so, unfortunately, I'm out.

 

[UKSBD]

We don't collect anything. Search Console Helper is a tool that allows you to extract YOUR own data from YOUR own Google Search Console account.

Why do we have to give permission for search console helper to view and manage Search Console data then?

Does that mean search console helper (you) or the search console helper system we have installed on our systems?

Does it report home?

 

[Hospitality_king]

It's not a theory. It's what works. Nice try...

CTR isn't the main aim, it's conversion.

Clickthrough not the main aim? k - then how does a visitor get to a site without clicking a weblink - tricky one, you opener for 10 points.

Btw - conversion is handled by a first class product.service, sales text and a site that delivers great customer service.

please open a new thread, don't hijack this one.

Comment removed by moderator!

 

[Miroslav Chodak]

Why do we have to give permission for search console helper to view and manage Search Console data then?

Does that mean search console helper (you) or the search console helper system we have installed on our systems?

Does it report home?

The Search Console Helper is the software that you install on your computer. It connects to Google via their API. So, you are giving permission for the software on your computer to connect to Google. We are not part of that process. It all takes place on your computer and it's the standard procedure for connecting to somebody's (Google's, in this case) services.

The software does call home. What we see is typical information about your system (type of device, screen resolution, etc.), the email address associated with your Google account and the list of properties in your Google Search Console account. We do not, however, have access to your data.

 

[fisicx]

Sounds good but you don't support Mac's so, unfortunately, I'm out.

So why doesn't it work on a mac?

 

[Miroslav Chodak]

So why doesn't it work on a mac?

Because it's a PC software. We're looking into making it work for Mac, too, though.

 

[justinaldridge]

Would anybody be interested in BETA testing our new keyword tool?

Would love to join in as a beta tester and check out the software.

 

[Miroslav Chodak]

Would love to join in as a beta tester and check out the software.

Hi, thank you for your interest. Please head over to searchconsolehelper.com and navigate to News (sorry, this forum doesn't allow me to post a direct link). You will find all the details over there.

 

[webgeek]

No idea why people are targeting long-tail these days.

Write a wicked good post on a given topic, whatever the topic. Write another crap one on the same topic. Build a couple related links to the good post, and ignore the crap one.

Wait a month and look back at your stats.

Suddenly, the crap one is barely indexed, ranks top 500 for a couple of terms, gets a few impressions and no clicks.

The wickedly good post ranks top 20 for 50, 100 or 500 terms, gets thousands of impressions and hundreds of clicks. Of those 500 ranking terms, 99.9% of them won't even be mentioned on the page. Google has figured out what the page is about, connected the dots to related terms based on content and query intent, and has ranked them accordingly.

Building content for conversions based on search intent, using root terms and latent semantically related/indexed terms, then building trust and authority through optimisation/internal-linking and external linkbuilding will bring in all those long tail terms.

Gone are the days of building 1000 crappy long tail posts to chase 1 or 2 long tail terms per post. Hail the current era of building a few epic wicked posts which carry the 1000 long tail phrase rankings based on their quality, authority and trust.

 

[Miroslav Chodak]

@webgeek Complete agreement on everything you wrote. Except for your apparent conclusion: no need to bother with long-tail keywords.

First of all, please note that I'm not advocating creating content specifically for long-tail keywords. That's a waste of resources. So, let's forget about creating "1000 crappy long tail posts" right off the bat, OK?

However, there are several specific reasons why long-tail keywords are extremely useful. Let me mention just the most important ones:

1. User intent. Knowing what search phrases brought the user to your site, helps you better understand what information they came for. The longer the "tail", the more specific insights you are getting. This knowledge helps you build better content. No guessing involved.

2. Conversions rate. Long-tail searches bring more targeted traffic and also traffic that is further along the customer journey. This means higher conversions. This means, it's profitable to optimize for the right keywords, long-tail or not.

3. Cost to compete. It's plain stupid to try to compete for the top few keywords. A few, well-selected long-tail keywords (or groups) will get you much farther in terms of the "bang for your buck". Especially, when you are just starting and need to show fast results.

Basically, knowing your long-tail keywords and your ability to act on that knowledge is the key to the process you so eloquently described in your post:

Building content for conversions based on search intent, using root terms and latent semantically related/indexed terms, then building trust and authority through optimisation/internal-linking and external linkbuilding will bring in all those long tail terms.

 

[webgeek]

@Miroslav Chodak - glad to hear you're a fan of quality content, that's awesome.

If I'm writing a quality post and not mentioning any of the 1,000 long tail phrases in my post, but ranking for them anyway.... then why do I need to know about those 1,000 phrases (other than what I see in Google Search Console reports)?

 

[Miroslav Chodak]

If I'm writing a quality post and not mentioning any of the 1,000 long tail phrases in my post, but ranking for them anyway....

First... if it were that simple. Yes, Google does rank you for keywords that don't appear on your page. But have you asked yourself, why? The answer is deceptively simple: there is no worthy competition (read: no optimized content worth listing).

In the absence of optimized content, Google ranks whatever it "thinks" might interest the reader, starting with authoritative sites. But even if you have an authoritative site, and you gobble up tons of traffic for all kinds of keywords, the problem with that (i.e. non-optimized content --- and I'm not talking only about SEO here) is that the conversion rates take a dive.

Second, how do you know if you have a quality post? Better yet, how can you be sure you will have a quality post BEFORE you start writing? What topics do you cover and what do you leave out? There is nothing easier that look up what your existing visitors are searching for (and reacting to) and (1) improve existing content and/or (2) build new one based on actual needs of your target visitors.

 

[Elliottc26]

@Miroslav Chodak - glad to hear you're a fan of quality content, that's awesome.

If I'm writing a quality post and not mentioning any of the 1,000 long tail phrases in my post, but ranking for them anyway.... then why do I need to know about those 1,000 phrases (other than what I see in Google Search Console reports)?

The words contained within the keywords will tell you information that can be ported to PPC, and will include specifics of services and locations most search for. This can inform further marketing activity also for social, and offline even.

Insights give you more market knowledge depth, which you can use strategically. So, if only certain keywords convert, you can modify other lower performing content toward this learning.

Being specific to a search with content that moulds around intentions can also help you build more features into your site, have CTAs including more relatable wordage, etc.,. So it's an evolution toward improvement in performance.

Despite the fact that you will be getting a lot of traffic that will be irrelevant to your website thereby diluting statistics; making analysis more difficult. So, if you're a local business, for instance, using longer tails will help you target searches about specific trades and areas more closely - like "Gas Safe Boiler Engineer Portsmouth", whilst not attracting searchers from wider UK areas who you don't serve, and ensuring an amount of conversion (the people with the money).

 

[webgeek]

The words contained within the keywords will tell you information that can be ported to PPC, and will include specifics of services and locations most search for. This can inform further marketing activity also for social, and offline even.

Insights give you more market knowledge depth, which you can use strategically. So, if only certain keywords convert, you can modify other lower performing content toward this learning.

Being specific to a search with content that moulds around intentions can also help you build more features into your site, have CTAs including more relatable wordage, etc.,. So it's an evolution toward improvement in performance.

If I'm doing organic, not PPC, then this becomes nothing but a distraction.

Strategic market knowledge depth = snake oil, waste of time. Long tail phrases can eat days that I could have spent writing a single wicked post that will benefit me more than the sliver of value I'd get from perusing a laundry list of long tail.

You can't mould content around 1,000 terms, especially into a single 2000 to 5000 word post. It just isn't going to happen, not in any way, shape or form.

--------------

This long tail exercise is an exercise in analysis paralysis that will distract site owners and keep them doing unproductive work when they could better spend their time writing singularly awe-inspiring posts that offer a scratch for the itch of their readership.

Give me a site owner spending 2 days writing a quality post and I'll build you a readership.

Give me a site owner spending 2 days reading over long-tail phrases and I'll have a soaking wet shoulder from them crying on me as they go bankrupt.

 

[Elliottc26]

And this is precisely why I have a job. The trap of business is becoming an employee of it - the owner runs it and employs people who have the expertise to help with everything else when they can. So the basics can be applied by an owner with a bit of time, but other activity takes time - so delegate and/or seek advice from those who know more than you.

Show me a business owner not looking into long-tails, and I'll show you an owner not ranking well and asking for a review on UKBF wondering why they're not getting traffic and stuck on page 6.

 

[garyk]

Agreed - but a searcher doesn't think like an advertiser cos advertiser chooses their keywords cos advertiser/site owner is obsessed with only rankings and not clickthrough.. To be success a biz owner got to think like a searcher and what a searcher types in - not wot a ranking chaser wants to see..

Exactly and that goes against your argument of long tail searches being irrelevant. You only have to put in a couple of words and see google suggest much longer (4-5+ word) phrases based on what people are actually searching for.

 

[Hospitality_king]

no it don't - cos no sane prson types in long tail words like Internet Marketer, as it far too general a word to give accuracy result.

Who the hell types in Internet Marketer when they want a Optimisation expert?? They wont cos Marketer means somefing else entirely eg: one that promotes or sells a product or service.

-- where as search engine optimisation is: ensuring that the site appears high on the list of results returned by a search engine. See - spamming other people's websites isnbt promotion, that's filling out forms either manually or auto - no promotion is done by Seo agents at all, they just steal off of real promoters which are search engines, booking sites, and any other search website they can spam - spam is no skill whatsoever - a chimp can do it. Bu wait - don't all real Seos claim some god-like skill? You see it on there sites all the time, so come on - their all liars man - just check their dumb keywords for their own sites is proof enough.

Just cos some stupid dude Seos his own Seo services site with trendy words don't mean squat and juging by the evidence found in many sites, they cant even put in the right words to be found under, never mind looking at what they typed in lol loads of em put in the total wrong words for entirely different occupation to wot there doing

so not wrong after all... infact just highlighted just how thick these Seos truly are - why would anyone trust a bunch of fools who cant read a dictionary.

 

[Elliottc26]

no it don't - cos no sane prson types in long tail words like Internet Marketer, as it far too general a word to give accuracy result.

The longer the term the more accurate the results. It's called, "Searches related to..."

So, for internet marketer, you get results like:

• secrets of internet marketing
• how does internet marketing work
• what is internet marketing all about
• jamie lewis internet marketer

These are what users have actually typed in to search for - long-tails (topics) related to the subject of internet marketing. This is reality.

But obviously, by having an oppositional and confronting approach to forum posting is going to get you free information from those you seem to have issue with. It's flaming, it's trolling, it's intended to be emotional, it's more for YouTube comments? However, this is a journalism/copywriting technique and works well for post views and engagement, but does nothing for credibility when your argument is based on false information.

 

[Hospitality_king]

having an oppositional and confronting approach to forum posting is going to get you free information from those you seem to have issue with. It's flaming, it's trolling, it's intended to be emotional, it's more for YouTube comments? However, this is a journalism/copywriting technique and works well for post views and engagement, but does nothing for credibility when your argument is based on false information.

See thing is all these so called pro copywriters seos etc if their all so good right, why are they using a general non-specific forum to get new business and not something far better targeted to tout for business? - see that alone says they ignored the most basic of marketing knowledge eg: promotion of the product their selling and place = distribution of the product/service - so again they and you just look stupid in the end.

Free information - lol - like I want that basic twaddle that I can pick up for free on the internet and do I really want to deal with people whos goal is to spam or eek out the odd client to make themselves feel like their somebody - I doubt it, no thanks.

btw - I used to be a copywriter for 5 years, so we can talk bout that if you want. Or we can talk about Forum trolls or forum management or Seos or practical anything so I used to own a forum too, so doubt you scare me friend - I'm too good at what I do. And I get more visitors in a few days than your freelance firm could gets for 10k of clients over a lifetime - that's who your dealing with.

So we can have a pleasant discussion or fire off insults to each other all day - your move friend.

 

[RedEvo]

The term "long tail" doesn't refer to the length of the keyword phrase, it refers to where it appears in the distribution of occurrences. A search phrase with many words can be popular, competitive, hard to rank for and not long tail - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_tail

d

 

[Hospitality_king]

RedEvo

A search phrase with many words can be popular, competitive, hard to rank for and not long tail -

Seo keywording, which is quite intersest subject in itself, if handled properly, and not something I disagree with, just disagree with the use of dumb words and inaccuracy of use of words when it wont work the way its done by most Seos.

The use of correct language is key to understanding of what business people do, and from what is real and proven already, is too many Seos, whether agencies, freelancer or the bod down the street with his 5 page blog are they all doing it wrong.

The fact silly words r being chased and used in site everywhere shows it doesn't work for their websites. Ok so their choosing words like

• secrets of internet marketing

• how does internet marketing work

Look, if I want to hire a Copywriter - k, I will type in most likely a popular words like - Copywriter, Copywriting, Sales text, Sales copy - When people search, they don't want secrets - they want Copywriting services, so its pointless to rank for Secrets - I feel a Homer Simpson coming on -- Doh!

So long tail wont work, so why do it - I suppose many are desperate and they think it works - well that just stupid. Its stupid cost the effort to keyword a site is effortless these days, with web design allowing for site owners to DIY onsite Seo themselves - so why not type in what your business will actually rank for??? Now I tell you a secret - Cos too many Seos are copying each other, so they know they cant beat the others as their services are too identical and they panic, so they wack in any old words and hope for best.

If everyone had a original set of skills or biz idea - they could all rank for specific keywords and do well - but the biz they chose is flawed for too many reasons and cannot rank for keywords good enough. Instead of not ranking well, they should jack in their Seo consultant businesses and think of something they can do and rank for in a better way, instead of try to compete with 20k of others doing the same thing.

Now that's a secret worth doing.

 

[Elliottc26]

RedEvo:

• Long-tail Keywords = keywords with more words in, more specific (70% of all searches)
• Long-tail marketing theory (demand curve) = mainstream products / services reducing down to related niche products / services

Therefore, long-tail keywords for a service could be:

• Gas Safe boiler engineer Hampshire (specific registration + location based = more likely to convert)

Where the shorter version is simply:

• Boiler Engineer (targets all searches with these two words in)

 

[Elliottc26]

The fact silly words r being chased and used in site everywhere shows it doesn't work for their websites. Ok so their choosing words like

• secrets of internet marketing

• how does internet marketing work

Look, if I want to hire a Copywriter - k, I will type in most likely a popular words like - Copywriter, Copywriting, Sales text, Sales copy - When people search, they don't want secrets - they want Copywriting services, so its pointless to rank for Secrets - I feel a Homer Simpson coming on -- Doh!

This is just wrong!

A) How do you know this?
B) Ever heard of "information search" early on as part of a cycle?

It all depends on what part of the cycle and who your content is aiming at...

So, the "secrets" may be a DIY searcher. Whereas the "how to" may be a potential customer who knows zero (noobie) early on in cycle, and/or a DIYer, and/or a student, etc.,.

Most that convert will type in words like: seo copywriter hampshire (these equate to 70% (ish!) of all searches, whereas the smaller words = 30% of all searches).

 

[Hospitality_king]

Therefore, long-tail keywords for a service could be:

• Gas Safe boiler engineer Hampshire

We all know what copycat methods are used daily - but people are not learning to avoid the same mistakes. How can 20k of plumbers all compete using Plumber in Uk or Plumber in London etc. They cant all stand out - maybe only 20 businesss can get something from every keyword - the rest are buggered. Also as an advertiser - if you deep in the results pages - cant expect searchers to wade through 100 search pages on a cluttered untarget engine - its too much these days and with the G focussing on 'favour of promote big companys' - it even more difficult to stand out.

All you done is repeat what I already said in another thread, but fail to recofnise noting changed in 15 years of web of use of unworkable keywords - this stupid stuff don't work anymore. But reason the same ol stuff is still being spolken bout - is only by Seo freelancer sellers looking to make a buck or 2 - search has changed much - actually marketing was changing over 100 years ago - it called market segmentation - any decent marketing book will tell you this.

This is just wrong!

A) How do you know this?
B) Ever heard of "information search" early on as part of a cycle?

It cant be wrong - cos an expert like you just suggested it - you remember yes? --

secrets of internet marketing
how does internet marketing work

Problem is - the above keywords aint market segmentation mate! It don't even qualify as a half decent search attempt never mind to drill down the right services for a basic accuracy lol. That's how I know....

I passed marketing at college - that's how I know. (Marketing & Business Systems).

I own Travel search website, Forum and some blogs, all with internal and external search driven engine. that's how I know.

People think they can come on forums and impress by quoting the latest Matt Cutts blog post, and make a Seo career of it lol. Snake oil boys....

My first business was at 15 years of age - a car washing biz. 2nd was a Copywriter, 3rd was a series of 4 publishing sites, 4th was a travel search engine, now working on a 9th search site....

 

[Paul121486]

@Hospitality_king After reading your many posts and boasts, I would love to see some of your previous work/websites. I understand unwillingness to share current websites/projects but surely there is no harm in sharing previous websites. How about the forum you successfully ran for many years or a sample of you copywriting skills. Everyone you are trolling has in the past provided such evidence, so surely only fair you back up your claims/statements.

 

[Hospitality_king]

Everyone you are trolling has in the past provided such evidence, so surely only fair you back up your claims/statements.

Since when? not to me they haven't - Now I put out challenge for someone to get 150k of visitors to their own Seo freelancer services site, then I may chat further once Ive seen that - so where is the 150k Seo site? But that wouldn't even equal what I have done, so it proves one thing - they cant do what they claim.

The hall is rented, the orchestra engaged. It's now time to see if they can dance...