New APP - How to flog this thing?

[UrbanmobJoe]

Hi, I am new to the forum and wanted to run my marketing and sales plan across people in the know to see what you think. As I have said on my introduction, I am a geek and not a salesman so here we go...

The app is a rewards and loyalty app aimed at SME, it requires no POS system and is cost effective to smaller businesses, such as salons, gyms, barbers, beauty palors and the like.

The plan is to target these sorts of business, these are my target market.

Along with a partner who has the gift of the gab we really are going to approach this with a street stomping method, hopefully building up our customers slowly to start with but always growing - the old school method so to speak.

As we build, the money we take will be used to try other methods such as Facebook targetted advertising, adwords and/or more people out in the street approaching our target market.

I know this is a very diluted description of our plan, but with little funding and a great app we built ourselves - what would you do? We have no investors so fast growth is only important to us, we are under no pressure to grow.

Thank you

 

[godoit]

Similar to https://swipii.com/ ?
Get your value prop right and I think the street stomping method is best. Obviously ask for an appointment but we have a few friendly SME's that use swippi and seems to work for them

 

[UrbanmobJoe]

Thank you, It is the way we are going to approach things initially.

Similar yes in that customers check in, but no physical card is needed to join and our most expensive sub is less than their cheapest.

 

[UrbanmobJoe]

If we get the value proposition right, what do you see as ideal numbers for growth, what would a person experienced in this expect? In terms of how many knocks, appointments, sales etc.... Is there a strategy you could point me to that best describes how this should work?

Thank you.

 

[fisicx]

If we get the value proposition right, what do you see as ideal numbers for growth

Maybe 1 in 1000 if you are lucky. Getting people to download the app and then find shops that offer the rewards is going to be difficult.

Look at how much nectar, vouchercloud and other reward systems spends on promotion and you will see how much of a mountain you have to climb. and I've just had a look on my phone and there a loads of rewards app already.

 

[UrbanmobJoe]

I agree, but they are expensive, which counts the smaller business out of being able to grow their repeat customer spend.

We aim to get the shops, who will then grow their own customer base.

 

[fisicx]

Shops might give it a go if it's free for 6 months. But they will expect you to provide all the promotion material. And even then you will struggle to get people to download the app. There has to be some real shiny rewards on offer if you are going to get even a flicker of interest. I'd want to see vouchers for attractions, cinema tickets, free coffee so on. Have you got some deals lined up to interest potential users?

 

[Alan]

My opinion. Won't work.

My opinion counts for nothing though, do your research before investing time and effort.

 

[UrbanmobJoe]

Shops might give it a go if it's free for 6 months. But they will expect you to provide all the promotion material. And even then you will struggle to get people to download the app. There has to be some real shiny rewards on offer if you are going to get even a flicker of interest. I'd want to see vouchers for attractions, cinema tickets, free coffee so on. Have you got some deals lined up to interest potential users?

It isn't that kind of rewards app, that HAS been done to death. This is rewards that the store create themselves to offer to their customers. Points are only redeemable in the store they are collected in.

 

[UrbanmobJoe]

My opinion. Won't work.

My opinion counts for nothing though, do your research before investing time and effort.

Thank you. We will indeed. I also hope you are wrong.

 

[fisicx]

This is rewards that the store create themselves to offer to their customers. Points are only redeemable in the store they are collected in.

So why do you need an app for this? A card they can stamp is virtually free and much more personable and almost instant.

With an app I've got to get my phone out, enter the access code, find the app, open it and then the shopkeeper needs to do something to add my points. Way too much faffing about. I just have to swipe nectar card and it's done in seconds.

If it is totally free for the shopkeeper you might get a smigeon of interest but it's going to take a lot of effort on your part to market the thing (meaning actually visiting the shops and doing a demo or spending a large wodge on advertising). My guess would still be 1 in 100 shops being interested and 1 in 1000 still being interested a month later. And maybe 1 in 100 shoppers bothering to get the app.

But only if it's 100% free for everybody.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

Are these individual apps for the business or a generic one?

Also, your website needs contact details - you are breaking UK regulations by not having them!

 

[fisicx]

And I need to scan a QR code to get started. This is dying technology, very few people have QR code readers installed on their phone anymore so the project may be doomed from the start

 

[garyk]

I know this is a very diluted description of our plan, but with little funding and a great app we built ourselves - what would you do? We have no investors so fast growth is only important to us, we are under no pressure to grow.
Thank you

Seriously? Give up.

Sorry if that comes across as negative but I do have experience and have published apps. Also I met and got to know some guys from Austria whilst at a startup accelerator who did the exact same thing 4 years ago. What happened? They couldn't get it going even with funding and an established base back in Austria (they were expanding into the UK).

So whats the issue(s)? First of all you have a 'network' issue. That is where you need both sides of the coin for it to work. Users won't use the app unless their favourite coffee shop is listed and businesses won't sign-up if there are no customers.

Secondly you need massive scale to see money. What are you doing taking a %age of the transaction cost? It will need to be small to be an attractive proposition which means you need a ton of transactions to see any real revenue.

Thirdly, brand dominance. Costa, Starbucks and Nero won't entertain it as they won't want potential customers going to a competitor and they already have apps.

You have already made the biggest mistake, you should have analysed the market *before* getting started, and I don't mean a quick 10 minute google. The reason I highlight this is because I made the exact same mistake 5 years ago, and left a well paying position to do so!

So trying to put a positive spin on it would what I do???

OK, I think I would perhaps look to a sector where the transaction cost is higher but the business owner still needs some kind of retention/loyalty mechanism. So think beauty salons, hairdressers etc. Not sure if that is viable - you'll have to research it!

Good luck with your endeavours!

 

[fisicx]

Even if you do focus on a niche (like nail salons) you will still need a huge marketing campaign. Posters, emails, letters, adverts in magazines, cold calling, telephone support and so on.

 

[UrbanmobJoe]

So why do you need an app for this? A card they can stamp is virtually free and much more personable and almost instant.

With an app I've got to get my phone out, enter the access code, find the app, open it and then the shopkeeper needs to do something to add my points. Way too much faffing about. I just have to swipe nectar card and it's done in seconds.

If it is totally free for the shopkeeper you might get a smigeon of interest but it's going to take a lot of effort on your part to market the thing (meaning actually visiting the shops and doing a demo or spending a large wodge on advertising). My guess would still be 1 in 100 shops being interested and 1 in 1000 still being interested a month later. And maybe 1 in 100 shoppers bothering to get the app.

But only if it's 100% free for everybody.

Why would you need an app for this? The app costs less than the time needed to put even a paper system together. Cardboard is expensive!! plus the time it takes!! An app is a far better solution and it does so much more.

I take on board your idea of faffing about, its our biggest concern. But the app checks you in, so the shop owner even knows your name when you get to the till, add what has been spent and click submit, it literally takes 5 seconds.

As for your numbers, my numbers show a different outcome. We have approached 100 of our target market and received 67 businesses who would be willing to know more. I know thats far from a sale but it does seem like there is an interest.

I can name two competitors now that are more expensive and have over 250k customers (paying) which would argue your point again.

 

[UrbanmobJoe]

And I need to scan a QR code to get started. This is dying technology, very few people have QR code readers installed on their phone anymore so the project may be doomed from the start

The new iPhone has it built in, no other readers needed. Apple suggesting it inst a dying technology. QR also isn't the only way to connect to a store.

 

[UrbanmobJoe]

Seriously? Give up.

Sorry if that comes across as negative but I do have experience and have published apps. Also I met and got to know some guys from Austria whilst at a startup accelerator who did the exact same thing 4 years ago. What happened? They couldn't get it going even with funding and an established base back in Austria (they were expanding into the UK).

So whats the issue(s)? First of all you have a 'network' issue. That is where you need both sides of the coin for it to work. Users won't use the app unless their favourite coffee shop is listed and businesses won't sign-up if there are no customers.

Secondly you need massive scale to see money. What are you doing taking a %age of the transaction cost? It will need to be small to be an attractive proposition which means you need a ton of transactions to see any real revenue.

Thirdly, brand dominance. Costa, Starbucks and Nero won't entertain it as they won't want potential customers going to a competitor and they already have apps.

You have already made the biggest mistake, you should have analysed the market *before* getting started, and I don't mean a quick 10 minute google. The reason I highlight this is because I made the exact same mistake 5 years ago, and left a well paying position to do so!

So trying to put a positive spin on it would what I do???

OK, I think I would perhaps look to a sector where the transaction cost is higher but the business owner still needs some kind of retention/loyalty mechanism. So think beauty salons, hairdressers etc. Not sure if that is viable - you'll have to research it!

Good luck with your endeavours!

I appreciate your points, I really do. But please take a look at the website to see what we actually do and how it works before commenting. 80% of what you have said doesn't apply.

We don't need the big brands to entertain us. That isnt our market at all.

I do agree on one thing, the targets you said should be our market, are our market. So that is something Ill take. Thank you. We did research it.

You know your stuff, and id appreciate more of your comments. But please be more familiar with what we are doing rather than having a vague understanding of OUR plan.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

Get a trade association on your side and that might kick start it with minimal cost. An endorsement to their members would certainly get a few sales...
Though I tend to agree with others, that the idea is really a non starter...

IMHO loyalty comes from plain old fashion good service, no need for a card or app.

 

[UrbanmobJoe]

Wow this forum is negative. I have no problem with negativity, but at least take a look at what we are aiming to do. Or at least ask questions to gain the information before wading in.

Remember, Henry Morton, president of the Stevens Institute of Technology once told Edison the light bulb would never take off.

 

[UrbanmobJoe]

Get a trade association on your side and that might kick start it with minimal cost. An endorsement to their members would certainly get a few sales...
Though I tend to agree with others, that the idea is really a non starter...

IMHO loyalty comes from plain old fashion good service, no need for a card or app.

Great idea, Ill have that one if that's ok. At last some advice thats positive...

Oh you spoilt it... haha - so why do so many big companies do it?

 

[garyk]

I appreciate your points, I really do. But please take a look at the website to see what we actually do and how it works before commenting. 80% of what you have said doesn't apply.

We don't need the big brands to entertain us. That isnt our market at all.

I do agree on one thing, the targets you said should be our market, are our market. So that is something Ill take. Thank you. We did research it.

You know your stuff, and id appreciate more of your comments. But please be more familiar with what we are doing rather than having a vague understanding of OUR plan.

Noted @UrbanmobJoe, I *should* have looked into it in more detail so apologies if I was jumping in too hastily.

I still think you have an uphill battle, not impossible just very tough.It sounds like if you have initial interest then just keep on doing that. Alot of SaaS/app businesses think they can sit in their office and blat out emails/do PPC and scale from zero to the moon in 12 months.

You have to get out there and walk your first few hundred customers on to the platform. But hey I think you know that and have already started that process.

If you need any more help just ask and promise I will try and give constructive advice/thoughts and not just negativity!

 

[fisicx]

I take on board your idea of faffing about, its our biggest concern. But the app checks you in, so the shop owner even knows your name when you get to the till, add what has been spent and click submit, it literally takes 5 seconds.

Where is the shopkeeper accessing this information? Does he need to have a tablet or PC next to the till? Or does it integrate will his POS software?

If the former, how will this work when you have umpteen part time staff all working in the hairdressers or garden centre or the butchers or wherever?

Like @garyk says, apologies for all the negativity but I was involved in a similar project in Germany and after splurging 50K the whole thing still failed as they just couldn't get the numbers needed to make it viable.

Marketing is going to be your biggest hurdle. You can't sell this sitting in your office - you need to be out there demonstrating the app to iron out the bugs, the onboarding process and the admin.

As the QR code thing - I don't have an iPhone 7 and there are a whole load of people using windows and android phone without QR code readers. And consider also the huge number of older people (who like coupons) who use a Doro phone and similar devices. If there are alternative ways to sign up then the website needs to show this along with a demo of the shopkeepers admin area.

 

[fisicx]

Oh you spoilt it... haha - so why do so many big companies do it?

Data mining. It's the only reason Tesco has a clubcard and Sainsbury's uses nectar. The money back stuff is incidental, it's your shopping patterns they want.

 

[UrbanmobJoe]

Thank you Gary. I am 100% sure we need to get out there, this wont build from behind a desk. That's the fun part, telling people about it and how it can work for them, but i am not a salesman, I need those skills and will get them before I go out.

Stores that rely on repeat custom, seemingly want to be able to reward their customers. Without paying the higher prices of other companies.

 

[UrbanmobJoe]

Data mining. It's the only reason Tesco has a clubcard and Sainsbury's uses nectar. The money back stuff is incidental, it's your shopping patterns they want.

Agree, but it works.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

so why do so many big companies do it?

How many big companies actually can associate a sale with advertising or loyalty cards? My wife has loyalty cards from Waitrose, Tesco, Sainsburys, M&S and others. The nearest is Waitrose, followed by M&S, then Tesco. She does her main shop at Tesco because they have what she wants. She'll visit the other semi regularly, but the loyalty card has nothing to do with her choice.

I buy a lot from Amazon. I hate shopping, going out and mixing it with the hoards... so I use Amazon a lot. However, sometimes I'll buy from a local business even though Amazon might be cheaper. Why? Because while Amazon will certainly give me a refund, they don't make any attempt to solve my problem - the reason I was buying in the first place. The local business - at least the ones I use - will do everything they can to help. And sometimes - most of the time - that's more important than discounts.

 

[UrbanmobJoe]

The information comes through on any screen that their admin is logged into. So for our market that would be a phone or tablet.

I take all your points on board. This wont have a chance without getting out there.

 

[UrbanmobJoe]

How many big companies actually can associate a sale with advertising or loyalty cards? My wife has loyalty cards from Waitrose, Tesco, Sainsburys, M&S and others. The nearest is Waitrose, followed by M&S, then Tesco. She does her main shop at Tesco because they have what she wants. She'll visit the other semi regularly, but the loyalty card has nothing to do with her choice.

I buy a lot from Amazon. I hate shopping, going out and mixing it with the hoards... so I use Amazon a lot. However, sometimes I'll buy from a local business even though Amazon might be cheaper. Why? Because while Amazon will certainly give me a refund, they don't make any attempt to solve my problem - the reason I was buying in the first place. The local business - at least the ones I use - will do everything they can to help. And sometimes - most of the time - that's more important than discounts.

Why does your wife have the loyalty cards?

Also, again you are working on the idea that these companies are my competitors. They are not.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

Why does your wife have the loyalty cards?

I would guess to get the discounts. But don't ask me to explain the female mind... I'm spending over a million quid on a supercar and she's out looking for bargains, saving 10p on a shopping item...

Also, again you are working on the idea that these companies are my competitors. They are not.

Wasn't suggesting that. I'm pointing out that the loyalty card doesn't necessarily create loyalty. It won't make my wife go to Waitrose, even though they're closer and more convenient. Just as it won't make her go to a local hairdresser, just because they have an App. (BTW, neither of us have a smartphone).

An App that might be useful is one that combines all the loyalty cards into one... Then you won't have to carry around a ton of plastic...

 

[UrbanmobJoe]

Great idea! The people we have spoke to have suggested to us that if the local hair dresser says have 10 styles and the 11th is free or a reward like that, this will very much encourage them to go to the same stylist.

But why cant this be done with a card system? Fair point, but the benefits to the store owner are more than what a bit of cardboard can offer.

What car are you after?

While you're here i have a great investment idea for you! (only joking).

 

[fisicx]

But why cant this be done with a card system? Fair point, but the benefits to the store owner are more than what a bit of cardboard can offer.

So how will this benefit the store owner? My wife get here hair cut by the same bloke each time, he knows her name already. I go to the butcher each week and he knows my name and what I like to eat. He doesn't need an app to do all this.

The information comes through on any screen that their admin is logged into. So for our market that would be a phone or tablet.

But they won't have an admin login. They will have Tracy on Saturday morning to do the papers and she hands over to Roger who hands over to Kate who locks up. Arthur opens up next morning and so on. The owner maybe pops in once a week to check on the shop.

Same with the hairdresser, there are about 20 people milling about where my wife goes. And it's a different 20 each day. Same with nail salons and tanning studios and whatever.

Maybe the admin technology needs to be thought out a bit more.

 

[UrbanmobJoe]

So how will this benefit the store owner? My wife get here hair cut by the same bloke each time, he knows her name already. I go to the butcher each week and he knows my name and what I like to eat. He doesn't need an app to do all this.


But they won't have an admin login. They will have Tracy on Saturday morning to do the papers and she hands over to Roger who hands over to Kate who locks up. Arthur opens up next morning and so on. The owner maybe pops in once a week to check on the shop.

Same with the hairdresser, there are about 20 people milling about where my wife goes. And it's a different 20 each day. Same with nail salons and tanning studios and whatever.

Maybe the admin technology needs to be thought out a bit more.

I have taken all your points on board. Thank you. But feel you are looking for problems for the sake of feeling better about when/if we fail. Its very tiring.

 

[fisicx]

No, I'm just suggesting you haven't really considered how the shops will use your product. The administration of the users is going to be a big part of its success so it needs to be bomb proof. You need to be able to walk into a nail studio and show them how easy it is for multiple people to logon and monitor customers. You also maybe need to think about how you are going to convince Mandy to buy a tablet for her staff to use to look after customers as you don't want them using their phones.

I'm all for supporting new ideas but in this case the app is the least important part. The key to success is the marketing and the administration of customers. That's where all your effort needs to be applied.

Remember: people don't want an app, they want free stuff. The shopkeeper don't want loyalty cards, they want more business. That's what you are selling, the technology to achieve this is irrelevant. If you can sell the idea then the technology follows. This means when you approach the owner, don't even mention the app. Sell the idea of repeat custom and increased profits.

 

[UrbanmobJoe]

You are right, sorry for being a bit off in my last post.

One admin account will take care of all store users admin rights. The shop would have an admin log in, that can be used by any member of staff at any time on either their phone or a tablet bought for the job.

We are certainly going to approach people the way you have mentioned. They have to know what it will do, the how will follow.

 

[TotalWebSolutions]

I can understand why you feel responses may have been 'negative' on first glance but really these are just realistic opinions and views from established business people with vast years of experience (look at the number of posts listed next to their names) so you are getting free and valuable advice from those in the know.

Please do not label the whole forum as negative (in your earlier post). If you ask for help/advice you will get that and some opinion, as with anything, but hopefully it contributes to establishing the business

 

[UrbanmobJoe]

I understand and accept that. But when the advice is given without looking into the product then you have to question the experience of the people giving the advice wouldn't you? If i say something about the product then the advice is still negative based on what i haven't said then that becomes tiring. But I have received some great advice on the whole. It just took some coxing from between the negativity.

 

[fisicx]

Your problem is a lack of funding. For this sort of product to get any real traction you need a decent marketing budget. You can stomp round all the shops and you may get some interest but most will never commit to a spend until they see some results. So you need to be offering 6 months free and a box of goodies they can use as gifts along with the posters and maybe even a tablet to run the trial. You need to publish all over the local area that this great new rewards system is in place and with one app they can earn rewards in any contributing business. And you need to offering telephone support pretty much 24/7 to catch the early birds and the night owls all of whom may get stuck when the tablet freezes or the points don't upload or your server crashes

Which brings me onto a point my mate brought up. If I walk into the shopping mall and there are two shops and a stall outside. How will you app know which one to link to?

 

[fisicx]

PS. This isn't me being negative. It's me talking from experience. Getting people to sign up and actually pay for this is going to take months and months of hard work. Early starts and late nights and loads of driving the country.

 

[UrbanmobJoe]

Your problem is a lack of funding. For this sort of product to get any real traction you need a decent marketing budget. You can stomp round all the shops and you may get some interest but most will never commit to a spend until they see some results. So you need to be offering 6 months free and a box of goodies they can use as gifts along with the posters and maybe even a tablet to run the trial. You need to publish all over the local area that this great new rewards system is in place and with one app they can earn rewards in any contributing business. And you need to offering telephone support pretty much 24/7 to catch the early birds and the night owls all of whom may get stuck when the tablet freezes or the points don't upload or your server crashes

Which brings me onto a point my mate brought up. If I walk into the shopping mall and there are two shops and a stall outside. How will you app know which one to link to?

It will link to all three, then you just select the one you are in.

We are ready for the hard miles and long days, I am looking forward to them if anything.

You are right about the funding, we want (have) to start slow and build it through hard work. We wont get funding for this! I dont think so anyway.