Need a good solicitor

[andy*smartcleaning]

Hi all

We are a cleaning contractor for a national residential management company for cleaning the communal areas for blocks of flats and haven't been paid for over a year

I have tried phone calls, letters and emails but been giving the run around

Think its time to call in the professionals and get a solicitor

NOW my problem is! I cant take them to court for the money that is owned as they are only acting on behalf of the lessees!

Is there someone that can recommend me a good solicitor, we are owed all most 3k

 

[Frictiontech]

Andy
Not paid 4 a year? why leave it so long?
Your claim is against whoever your contract is with.

Kev

 

[andy*smartcleaning]

Hi Kev

We do about 7 blocks of flats for them, we have been cleaning on the blocks for over 10 years now and the management companies have changed hands on the blocks about 5 times, there is no contract in place, it is a on going agreement, we have received some money from the other blocks and lived in hope they will pay for the ones that owe from over a year but its not going to happen....so time to act...

Andy

 

[arcon5]

Hi Kev

We do about 7 blocks of flats for them, we have been cleaning on the blocks for over 10 years now and the management companies have changed hands on the blocks about 5 times, there is no contract in place, it is a on going agreement, we have received some money from the other blocks and lived in hope they will pay for the ones that owe from over a year but its not going to happen....so time to act...

Andy

offcourse there is a contract in place, it is just not a written contract. You can persue whoever hired you to do the work -- the fact they have been instructed by somebody else is irrelevant -- unless ofcourse they are merely agents between you and the lessee..

 

[jules12345]

I would suggest that the Agent has Apparent authority to act -

Apparent authority

Main articles: Apparent authority and Estoppel
Apparent authority (also called "ostensible authority") exists where the principal's words or conduct would lead a reasonable person in the third party's position to believe that the agent was authorized to act, even if the principal and the purported agent had never discussed such a relationship. For example, where one person appoints a person to a position which carries with it agency-like powers, those who know of the appointment are entitled to assume that there is apparent authority to do the things ordinarily entrusted to one occupying such a position. If a principal creates the impression that an agent is authorized but there is no actual authority, third parties are protected so long as they have acted reasonably. This is sometimes termed "agency by estoppel" or the "doctrine of holding out", where the principal will be estopped from denying the grant of authority if third parties have changed their positions to their detriment in reliance on the representations made.[3]

Rama Corporation Ltd v Proved Tin and General Investments Ltd [1952] 2 QB 147, Slade J, "Ostensible or apparent authority... is merely a form of estoppel, indeed, it has been termed agency by estoppel and you cannot call in aid an estoppel unless you have three ingredients: (i) a representation, (ii) reliance on the representation, and (iii) an alteration of your position resulting from such reliance."
Freeman & Lockyer v Buckhurst Park Properties (Mangal) Ltd [1964] 2 QB 480
The Raffaella or Egyptian International Foreign Trade Co v Soplex Wholesale Supplies Ltd and PS Refson & Co Ltd [1985] 2 Lloyd's Rep 36

I would like to bring to your attention -

Liability of agent to third party

If the agent has actual or apparent authority, the agent will not be liable for acts performed within the scope of such authority, so long as the relationship of the agency and the identity of the principal have been disclosed. When the agency is undisclosed or partially disclosed, however, both the agent and the principal are liable. Where the principal is not bound because the agent has no actual or apparent authority, the purported agent is liable to the third party for breach of the implied warranty of authority.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_agency

Agency is not as clear cut as many people may believe..!

Regards
Jules

 

[The Resolver]

Your problem is not so much the identity of who you soon. Clearly it will be the management company and from what you've said I think it would not be difficult to establish that they are the contracting parties. The real problem is that the sum you are seeking is within the Small Claims track jurisdiction of the County Court and thus if you instruct a solicitor, you would not be able to recover their fees from the management company. If suing for only £3000 you should take the action out yourself without representation.

 

[The Resolver]

I should add that I have once you've obtained a judgement, which you probably would be obtained by default of a defence being filed, you ought to be able to enforce it by a Third-Party Debt Order against the payments from the lessees to the management company for the service charge. As you say they are a national management company, I'd imagine their monthly receipts nationally would be well in excess of the amount they owe you. To clarify, the third-party debt order would be against any monies being paid to them not just those of the lessees of the flats that you clean. Strictly speaking you would need to identify each lessee and then pay the costs of each application. That cost would be ordered to be paid by the management company. The tactics therefore would be, once you had obtained your judgement and if it is not paid, to issue one only sample TPDO to begin with so that the message is clear to the management company and. to the lessees who ultimately will pay these extra fees out of increased service charges.

But have a contract with proper terms including a detailed dispute resolution clause drawn up I can help you with that if you contact me.

 

[sjbeale]

You need to write at least once to the organisation that owes you money giving them a time frame to pay the money owed. If they don't I can recommend Verity Griggs of Mercian Law who will do you a debt chasing letter at very reasonable cost - that often does the trick.

 

[Paul Norman]

Top lesson for us all. When someone makes no effort to pay, stop doing the work. If they are working with you to clear the debt, work with them.

 

[The Resolver]

You need to write at least once to the organisation that owes you money giving them a time frame to pay the money owed. If they don't I can recommend Verity Griggs of Mercian Law who will do you a debt chasing letter at very reasonable cost - that often does the trick.

Sandra, Andy said that he's written countless times over the past year to no avail. They may well feel he Iis not going to do anything. The big danger of instructing solicitors to write a threatening letter is that unless you've decided to pay the solicitor to actually carry out the threat of issuing the proceedings, when the time comes and the proceedings have not been issued, you lose significant credibility that will prejudice any further threats you make such as to issuing proceedings yourself.

Its a fundamental negotiating advice never to have solicitors letters sent out unless you have already instructed them to issue proceedings.

 

[Steve Sellers]

Its a fundamental negotiating advice never to have solicitors letters sent out unless you have already instructed them to issue proceedings.

Not wrong but I would add or the definite intention to issue.

 

[Legalbeagle]

Just to chip in an alternative, whilst £3,000 is below the small claims limit for money claims, it is above the small claims limit for insolvency proceedings.

A solicitor can make a written demand (not a statutory demand, not needed if the management company is a limited) and then issue a compulsary winding up petiton.

If the company pays after that, then the costs are recoverable on top of the debt, and I know of a firm who do those winding up cases on a conditional fee agreement.

If the company does not pay, then you can wind up the management company and the liquidator would take control of the management company and attempt to sell on the agreements for maintainance, meaning there would be at least some funds available.

Realistically, you would need to know whether the company has the funds to pay, and is simply ignoring you, or is actually insolvent and unable to pay. A good solicitor would be able to "risk assess" the case before taking it on for you.

AsI say, perhaps an alternative....

 

[The Resolver]

Excellent point to make Legalbeagle. Butyou have to be sure of solvency as it will be costly if not. Management companies tend to have no assets and the monies just come in and go out again so this tactic may be more appropriate in other scenarios.

 

[Clarkmans]

Hi Andy

We offer some very cost effective fixed fees for debt recovey that enable business to recover sums that fall in the small claims bracket.

Happy to have a chat with you about recovering the debt if this will help.


Good luck!

 

[TONI TIMIS]

to: andy*smartcleaning

Jason Newbold
Head of Recoveries
For and on behalf of
Harrison Clark LLP

Direct Dial: 01905 744 835
Direct Fax: 01905 744 850
Email: [email protected]

 

[andy*smartcleaning]

BIG THANKS for everyone's input in this matter

To get you up to date

I issued court action today through the online small claims court

I have really been in two minds what to do!

They have 14days to get back to me!

If this doesnt work then its a case of moving on and let the big boys walk all over me :-(

 

[Legalbeagle]

Excellent news ...

They will either file a defence, in which case you will have you day in court, or (more likely) not defend and you will be able to apply for a judgement in default.

Get teh date they have to reply in your diary, I see so often people missing the opportunity to get the judgement in on time and defendants filing late defences which get "under the wire"

Once you have a judgement, lets have a chat about how to enforce it.

 

[andy*smartcleaning]

Hi Legalbeagle

Would I have to appear in court in person, or does the judgement just go through

 

[Legalbeagle]

If they dont enter a defence before the time limit expires, then you just go to the court counter (if you issued in your local court) or file online (if you used moneyclaim online) a "Request for Default Judgement". This ends the case, and gives you a county court judgement against them.

If they file a defence, then yes, you will have to attend court for the hearing, but as I say, only if they actually file a defence. The papers you get back if they do will take you through all that process, but if it happens, post here and i will talk you through it.

 

[andy*smartcleaning]

Thats very good advice BIG thanks from me are let you know how it goes...