My (shop) business insurance has gone up 23%, is this "the going increase" ?

[Justin Smith]

I was a bit shocked when the quote for the insurance for my shop went up by 23% the other day, from £689 to £854 !
Is this the current sort of increase ?
It's not even as if we hold much stock (about £25K) and it's not "pinch-able" either, nobody is going to bother breaking in to nick a load of poles brackets and aerials !
The building is worth about £250K and insured for £433K rebuilding cost, plus there are two flats over my shop with a tenant in each one.
I believe the excess is about £200 but I'd be prepared to have a much higher excess as I would only ever claim for a "disaster" anyway in which case a few hundred off the payout, or even a few thousand, would not be of much concern to me !

I know I should get other quotes but getting quotes for business insurance is not a 2 minute job, so if the consensus is that increase is normal for 2023 I'll just go with it, unfortunately....

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

Have you got quotes from other brokers?

 

[Justin Smith]

Have you got quotes from other brokers?

I haven't yet as it is not a 2 minute job, they ask you so many questions.....
I am with Insurance Octopus and they were significantly cheaper than my prev insurer (Gallagher's) when I swapped to them two years ago.
I am a bit cynical about insurance companies, esp business insurance. I reckon they know it's a bit of a time consuming job getting quotes so they offer a cheap deal to make it worthwhile you swapping to them then slowly increase the price over time ?

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

You need to decide how much your time is worth!

 

[Justin Smith]

You need to decide how much your time is worth!

I agree, but if other business owners on here say a 23% increase and/or a £850 premium is about right for a small business (which owns its premises) then that decrease the chances that my time spent getting other quotes is a good investment !

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

I am sure @Frank the Insurance guy will have a comment, but, in my experience, premiums have shot up.

But remember, with insurers, they love your complacent attitude as they already have you! You will only get a better deal by becoming a new customer elsewhere - that's why brokers can be so much better for you, as they will understand your needs and search the market.

 

[DontAsk]

I am with Insurance Octopus and they were significantly cheaper than my prev insurer (Gallagher's) when I swapped to them two years ago.

I'm with Gallagher, but work from home, rather than a shop. Increases have been less than 10% for last two years.

Looks like Octopus suckered you in and then hoped you wouldn't notice (or couldn't be bothered with the many questions, LOL) when they jack up the cost in subsequent years.

I would ask Gallagher if they still have your file and can they quote based on that, plus anything that's changed.

 

[Justin Smith]

I'm with Gallagher, but work from home, rather than a shop. Increases have been less than 10% for last two years.

Looks like Octopus suckered you in and then hoped you wouldn't notice (or couldn't be bothered with the many questions, LOL) when they jack up the cost in subsequent years.

I would ask Gallagher if they still have your file and can they quote based on that, plus anything that's changed.

Good idea.

 

[MBE2017]

I managed to get a 15% reduction in car and home insurances, but I always shop around, 1 month before renewal seems to be a good sweet spot for quotes.

 

[WaveJumper]

Yes unfortunately the only way is to shop around and as mentioned above you need to put a cost on the time you spend. I personally think all insurances companies are taking the micky at the moment and trying to pass on huge increases unless challenged. We have seen the news reports of 20% to 25% increases in car policies (apparently due to higher repair costs) and I know of several people receiving horrendous quotes on renewal including my own sons that went from £850 to over £1,400 a few phone calls later £825.00 ....... with the same insurer, funny that.

Speak to @Frank the Insurance guy

 

[Frank the Insurance guy]

There are increases in the Insurance market - we are seeing quite big increases on Commercial Buildings rates and Liability rates - although not at the 23% level you have seen!

I suspect your rebuild sum insured has been increased to protect against inflation, so probably circa 10% high level of cover which accounts for quite a bit of the increase.

Only way to find out is to get some other quotes - good idea from @DontAsk

I would ask Gallagher if they still have your file and can they quote based on that, plus anything that's changed.

Gallaghers may still have the details to get a quote quickly, if you don't have the time to shop around.

 

[numbersrule]

Our PL & EL insurance increased by more than 400% two years ago. (no claims) They quoted late so there was no time to shop around. It was because our brokers stopped offering PL & EL for my industry sub sector and off loaded me to a new subsidiary.

PI Insurance has regularly increased by 20% in recent years and now our insurers say they will no longer offer PII for my industry sub sector. Quote time bomb from new insurers imminent.

My personal car insurance was quoted as 35% higher last year but they invited me to shop around so I did and found one for minimal increase. When I presented this to existing insurers they would not match it ( no where near ) so I switched.

 

[Justin Smith]

I'm with Gallagher, but work from home, rather than a shop. Increases have been less than 10% for last two years.

Looks like Octopus suckered you in and then hoped you wouldn't notice (or couldn't be bothered with the many questions, LOL) when they jack up the cost in subsequent years.

I would ask Gallagher if they still have your file and can they quote based on that, plus anything that's changed.

I thought that was a good idea, but trying to even get through to them is a nightmare. Eventually I did so (apparently I'd been using the wrong phone number) and someone said they'd get back to me, but never did. I have tried about three other phone numbers off Google (and my suppliers book) and most were for different parts of Gallagher's, though none answered the phone anyway !

 

[fisicx]

I have tried about three other phone numbers off Google (and my suppliers book) and most were for different parts of Gallagher's, though none answered the phone anyway !

That's because they aren't interested in people calling on the phone. They want you to use their online forms and chats as it's a lot cheaper. Gallager is just another broker, they make money by not spending money. Which means using AI rather than people.

That being said. Their website does have an 0800 number. Have you called that?

 

[Justin Smith]

That's because they aren't interested in people calling on the phone. They want you to use their online forms and chats as it's a lot cheaper. Gallager is just another broker, they make money by not spending money. Which means using AI rather than people.

That being said. Their website does have an 0800 number. Have you called that?

I have, and no answer.
However, I eventually got the correct number. It's a bloke called Andy who is responsible for shop insurances.

>>That's because they aren't interested in people calling on the phone. They want you to use their online forms and chats as it's a lot cheaper. Gallager is just another broker, they make money by not spending money. Which means using AI rather than people.<<

Oh I agree, companies these days don't want to give people good personal service, it's too much trouble for them.
They deserve to go bust.

 

[fisicx]

Giving personal service costs time and money. If you need personal service maybe they don’t want you as a customer. That’s why they don’t go bust.

But you seem to have got it sorted.

 

[Justin Smith]

Giving personal service costs time and money. If you need personal service maybe they don’t want you as a customer. That’s why they don’t go bust.

That's a neat inversion of the received wisdom of business :

Businesses do not want customers who expect good service and, furthermore, giving good service means you go bust !

On the subject of insurance Gallgaher's are now preparing a quote for me but seemed pessimistic if it'd be any better then the quote I have already had from my current insurers : "Insurance Octopus".

 

[BusterBloodvessel]

Not sure about business insurance but ditto some of the above comments about car insurance. I have just renewed mine, from a premium of around £1100 last year my renewal quote with the same insurer was £1700! After shopping around the very best I could get was around £1350, so a 25% increase despite having an extra years NCB!

Wouldn't mind if I was a boy racer but I'm 34 years old with 2 years NCB in a 1.6l VW Passat.... paying nearly as much for my insurance as I did for my first ever premium at age 17!

 

[fisicx]

That's a neat inversion of the received wisdom of business :

Businesses do not want customers who expect good service and, furthermore, giving good service means you go bust !

No, it just means they don’t want the costs of running a call centre. It’s all about the cost of acquisition. If you need an hour on the phone and lots of handholding then it starts to become too expensive to have you as a client.

 

[Justin Smith]

Just had a welcome call from my existing "broker" Insurance Octopus".
They said the problem was my existing insurer (NIG) was wanting to put the insurance on two separate policies (because of the tenants in the upstairs flats) hence the increased premium ?
They then said they'd found an alternative insurer (RSA) who would insure the whole lot on one policy and at a premium of £687. Which is actually £2 less than last year ! ! !
I do not know yet about the policy cover levels etc but, essentially, I only ever take out insurance for "catastrophe cover", like if my building burnt down, so I am not that bothered about the minutiae of cover or a large excess.

 

[IanSuth]

That's a neat inversion of the received wisdom of business :

Businesses do not want customers who expect good service and, furthermore, giving good service means you go bust !

On the subject of insurance Gallgaher's are now preparing a quote for me but seemed pessimistic if it'd be any better then the quote I have already had from my current insurers : "Insurance Octopus".

To explain this more - from my view (as someone who deals with call centres)

Most of what people consider insurers are actually brokers and it is a cut throat world.

For the big boys they want as big a % of the easy work as possible - they want economies of scale and people filling out all the info themselves - then they can get a small % of a lot of work with little admin overhead (for the amount of policies dealt with)

The alternative is to actually deal with people and get details - that gives a more accurate answer but costs money to do.

So basically if you are an "average" business you can do it al online and get a bog standard policy with low cost broker fees - if you are not average (and I am guessing a business with residential tenants upstairs is not standard) you either gamble with a computer getting it right or take the hit on a non optimal solution (NIG over RSA) or you go to a broker that will listen and come up with a tailored solution and pay the £ for that service (which could save you more than it costs)

 

[numbersrule]

The Insurance Industry is Multi Cyclic.
I.e. each individual insurance type / sub sector has it's own cyclic stages from hard market to soft and large increases to treading water.
The current malaise will settle down eventually when the insurers ( not the brokers ) realise they have shot themselves in the foot.
I predict a mass exit by the down trodden insured.

In fact, I believe the Brokers are equally down trodden.

Actually, more generally if things carry on the way they are going a lot of occupations will become uninsurable due to the increasingly complex nature of the business world and the inability to sufficiently train young starters due, in turn, to the young people's inability to focus on one thing for more than a few months at a time.

I blame digitisation. Digitisation is a tool to assist for the older generation who just use it. However, for the younger generations digitisation is a way of life that they live and breathe to the exclusion of practicalities, logic, rhyme and reason. It is eroding the foundations of existence.

Not only that, we are facing multiple existential crises.

The world is in decline and insurance will be one of the first canaries in the coal mine to fall off it's perch.

Because insurance is fundamentally non-essential.

As the climate crisis takes hold in the next 10 years and non-essentials are gradually rolled back and done away with as we are forced back to basics, insurance will be one of the first industries to fade out.

 

[Justin Smith]

The Insurance Industry is Multi Cyclic.
I.e. each individual insurance type / sub sector has it's own cyclic stages from hard market to soft and large increases to treading water.
The current malaise will settle down eventually when the insurers ( not the brokers ) realise they have shot themselves in the foot.
I predict a mass exit by the down trodden insured.

In fact, I believe the Brokers are equally down trodden.

Actually, more generally if things carry on the way they are going a lot of occupations will become uninsurable due to the increasingly complex nature of the business world and the inability to sufficiently train young starters due, in turn, to the young people's inability to focus on one thing for more than a few months at a time.

I blame digitisation. Digitisation is a tool to assist for the older generation who just use it. However, for the younger generations digitisation is a way of life that they live and breathe to the exclusion of practicalities, logic, rhyme and reason. It is eroding the foundations of existence.

Not only that, we are facing multiple existential crises.

The world is in decline and insurance will be one of the first canaries in the coal mine to fall off it's perch.

Because insurance is fundamentally non-essential.

As the climate crisis takes hold in the next 10 years and non-essentials are gradually rolled back and done away with as we are forced back to basics, insurance will be one of the first industries to fade out.

I was going to up vote your post, till you got onto the "climate crisis" !

 

[Justin Smith]

Just had a welcome call from my existing "broker" Insurance Octopus".
They said the problem was my existing insurer (NIG) was wanting to put the insurance on two separate policies (because of the tenants in the upstairs flats) hence the increased premium ?
They then said they'd found an alternative insurer (RSA) who would insure the whole lot on one policy and at a premium of £687. Which is actually £2 less than last year ! ! !
I do not know yet about the policy cover levels etc but, essentially, I only ever take out insurance for "catastrophe cover", like if my building burnt down, so I am not that bothered about the minutiae of cover or a large excess.

That quote did not include their "administration fee", which made it £722.
Gallagher's eventually got back to me with a quote of £784 but by then I'd already gone with the £722.

I am slightly concerned that the new policy requires me to have a working burglar alarm which we have not got because we do not need one*. I am not particularly concerned about the fact they probably would not pay out on any goods lost during any burglary, but a bit concerned they might use that as an excuse to not pay out if the shop happened to get burnt down as a result of it !

* We are highly unlikely to ever get burgled, and, in fact have never been in the 27 years I have had this shop. Physically it would be hard to break into the shop and in any case we sell aerials poles and brackets, not the kind of stuff your average burglar would be wanting to sell down the pub. Furthermore there are tenants in the flats above the shop who would be phoning the Old Bill in no time, a fact any potential burglar would be only too aware of.

 

[fisicx]

If they want a burglar alarm then get one installed. It's not a huge expense.

 

[Frank the Insurance guy]

I am slightly concerned that the new policy requires me to have a working burglar alarm which we have not got because we do not need one

bit concerned they might use that as an excuse to not pay out if the shop happened to get burnt down as a result of it !

Since the Insurance Act 2015, it is very hard for an insurer to refuse to pay a claim on the basis of a policy condition is not met, unless that condition is relevant to the claim - they would look at the impact on the particular claim had you followed the condition and their claims decision should be based on that.

If your shop burns down, they will therefore consider the difference a burglar alarm would have made to the loss.

 

[Justin Smith]

If they want a burglar alarm then get one installed. It's not a huge expense.

It is not just the cost of having it fitted, in fact we already have one but it went faulty.
It is the hassle of having to set it and un-set it every time you open and shut, and you have to do that because it keeps a record of when the alarm is activated and if it isn't you aren't covered.
Additionally having it serviced (esp the battery etc) is a pain and an extra expense, plus the possibility of false alarms. The latter being annoying for my tenants and the neighbours, and, potentially, for me if I am called out to come and switch it off !

 

[fisicx]

That may be, but if a condition of the insurance is having an alarm then you need to get one. If you don’t the insurance is invalidated.

 

[Justin Smith]

I got onto the underwriters and questioned them further on what might not be covered if I had no alarm. They then got onto the insurers (RSA) who actually said I did not need an alarm anyway !

 

[SportsTrophyUK]

If you're a Sheffield based business then have a word with SheffLOCK about a RING alarm system with CCTV if required that you can take down if you move premises.