Lord Sugar's comments - opinions!

[cmcp]

sizzle .

 

[guvna]

Good find.

What I find strange here on this thread is that people don't distinguish between engineers who want to be engineers and engineers who decide they'd rather be businessmen.

Surely these people have different personalities?

Steve

This whole topic is about trained engineers who want to be "businessmen".

This is not about engineers who decide to remain engineers...

The guy from the apprentice who this topic is about got an engineering degree and clearly wants to work in other areas. It is not like he is an engineer of 40 years wanting to make a switch. Lord Sugar is ridiculous for classing a fresh engineering grad as an engineer who can't work well in business because of what he studied.. as those stats clearly show.. more CEOs with engineering degrees than any other degree in 2006.

 

[paulears]

You know what - in this world there are really serious things to get upset over, and disagreements on internet forums really make me smile.

Somebody called somebody names, this person retaliated, the first person gets more upset, so does the second - everyone thinks they're right - other people join in the fight.

You probably think I'm talking about this topic, but to be honest, I was talking about two seven year olds in the school playground!

It's childish tit for tat nonsense, and as an impartial observer who doesn't really have an opinion on the rights and wrongs, it's embarassing, unprofessional and totally negative to all parties concerned. Egos are dented and everyone is wanting to have the final say, and be proved right. It simply isn't going to happen. For goodness sake - why doesn't everybody take a step backwards, and just moved on. You're never going to be friends, but does it really matter. Points scoring really doesn't work on the internet - all it does it stay there forever, so anyone can read this rubbish in umpteen years time, and draw their own conclusions. A good reputation that takes years to build gets washed away overnight.

It's about time we just moved on.

 

[directmarketingadvice]

Lord Sugar is ridiculous for classing a fresh engineering grad as an engineer who can't work well in business.. as those stats clearly show.. more CEOs with engineering degrees than any other degree in 2006.

I wonder if part of it is that Sugar has a very narrow idea of what "real business" is about.

In the first 2 or 3 series (which I watched), a huge proportion of the tasks were sales/negotiation-oriented.

Of course, that's part of business - especially retail - but it's not a big part of every type of business.

There are plenty of businesses that don't have face-to-face selling.

Instead they revolve around strategy, research, building marketing systems, understanding the numbers... and those are skills that engineer grads might be suited to, while the "wide-boy natural salesman" that Sugar seems to admire probably won't have.

Just my 2p,

Steve

 

[guvna]

Steve, the "engineer" we are talking about from the Apprentice is probably one of the widest boys they have had on the show who could sell ice to eskimos

 

[directmarketingadvice]

It's about time we just moved on.

I'd love to.

But clearly there are 2 people on this forum who are out for me, so what do I do?

Leave the insults unanswered?

Or defend myself?

I said it before, it's a lose-lose situation and, frankly, as someone who posts under his real name, I wonder if it's worth continuing on a forum that allows trolls to run loose.

Steve

 

You know what - in this world there are really serious things to get upset over, and disagreements on internet forums really make me smile.

Somebody called somebody names, this person retaliated, the first person gets more upset, so does the second - everyone thinks they're right - other people join in the fight.

You probably think I'm talking about this topic, but to be honest, I was talking about two seven year olds in the school playground!

It's childish tit for tat nonsense, and as an impartial observer who doesn't really have an opinion on the rights and wrongs, it's embarassing, unprofessional and totally negative to all parties concerned. Egos are dented and everyone is wanting to have the final say, and be proved right. It simply isn't going to happen. For goodness sake - why doesn't everybody take a step backwards, and just moved on. You're never going to be friends, but does it really matter. Points scoring really doesn't work on the internet - all it does it stay there forever, so anyone can read this rubbish in umpteen years time, and draw their own conclusions. A good reputation that takes years to build gets washed away overnight.

It's about time we just moved on.

What are you some sort of boy scout.?

Don't be a spoil sport.

Glad my reputation is based on what I do and not what other people may think of me.

Would be a bit worried if it were that precarious that it could disappear overnight.

Earl

 

[FaerieB]

I'd love to.

But clearly there are 2 people on this forum who are out for me, so what do I do?

Leave the insults unanswered?

Or defend myself?

I said it before, it's a lose-lose situation and, frankly, as someone who posts under his real name, I wonder if it's worth continuing on a forum that allows trolls to run loose.

Steve

"Man Up" and defend yourself x

 

[directmarketingadvice]

"Man Up" and defend yourself x

A bit of stirring is always appreciated.

Steve

 

[Esk247]

A bit of stirring is always appreciated.

Steve

you're no man..you're a woman!


*stir*

 

[ammi123]

You missed the point Steve, he said he "had never worked with an engineer who would make a good business man". It's not a generalisation or point of view, but a simple statement from his own experience, that people have taken out of context.

Apparently you are commenting without reading the whole thread, classy

you are right george, he have never worked with any engineer .

 

[GeorgeStrait]

Right Mr Gibson, fresh new day so perhaps you can now see sense. Will you now admit that Lord Sugar of Sugarville did NOT GENERALISE about engineers. Which is all I have ever said.

I'm not going to enter further debate with you as there is nothing more I can say if your not man enough to admit when you were so obviously wrong on a point that has be proven.

I would like to add that I'm not "out for you", why would I, I don't know you? I was merely putting forward a fact that you disagreed with and when the evidence was provided you apparently chose to ignore it, which I find very strange.

One final question, why is it that you consider me a "troll" just because I disagree with you. You have disagreed with me equally so does that you make a "troll" as well. Why the use of childish names like "troll" anyway, we aren't all students here, are we?

 

[FaerieB]

My goodest Uncle once had a meeting with LardSurgar, way back in the Armstrad days ... it was about a business his son had started with my cousin ... apparently he's not a very nice man

Personally, even before I knew that snippet of information I didn't like the man or his business advice ... there is only one way to the top in this world x

 

[GeorgeStrait]

My goodest Uncle once had a meeting with LardSurgar, way back in the Armstrad days ... it was about a business his son had started with my cousin ... apparently he's not a very nice man

Personally, even before I knew that snippet of information I didn't like the man or his business advice ... there is only one way to the top in this world x

Thanks Mrs B, that'll move the thread on.

So is Lardy Sugar a nice man or not, does it really matter in business. I bet if nothing else he's fair, after all he's not going to get rid of the talented people around him.

And I think every one on this forum will have to admit he's done better for himself and has more experience than any of us.

 

[internetspaceships]

Steve

As George said, nobody is "out to get you." I could reply to that wall of text you wrote in detail but suffice to say the following.

It's a forum dude, get over yourself.

Yes you too can be wrong sometimes. It's a part of life.

Stop taking things so personally and definately please stop viciously attacking people who disagree with you. It makes you look like a prize pr*tt.

 

[FaerieB]

Some things can be applied right across the board from business, to forums, to life itself.

1. Incest and corruption exists at every level.
2. It's not what you know and it's not who you know ... it's what you know about who you know.

I can't stand any TV programs that use and humiliate people for the entertainment of others ... but that's just me ...

Can't stand YeAppentice, Drogansden or any of that other carp ...

 

[GeorgeStrait]

Oh I don't know Mrs B, I like those shows because it's nice to see people with more stupid business ideas than I've had :redface:

 

[directmarketingadvice]

Right Mr Gibson, fresh new day so perhaps you can now see sense. Will you now admit that Lord Sugar of Sugarville did NOT GENERALISE about engineers. Which is all I have ever said.

I've now sat through the section of the show where he fired the guy and it was ...

"Glen, I've never yet come across an engineer who could turn his hand to business. You're fired."

That suggests the fact the guy was an engineer was a big part of him being fired. Do you agree?

As I said before, if he fired the guy because the guy was an engineer - or in part because he was an engineer - that's generalising about engineers.

If you need to find out what the word "generalise" means, try here:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/generalise

"draw from specific cases for more general cases"

I'm not going to enter further debate with you as there is nothing more I can say if your not man enough to admit when you were so obviously wrong on a point that has be proven.

You saying something is "proven" doesn't make it so.

I would like to add that I'm not "out for you", why would I, I don't know you?

I don't know. I never said it was logical or justified, only that you were doing it.

I was merely putting forward a fact that you disagreed with and when the evidence was provided you apparently chose to ignore it, which I find very strange.

I suggest you click the link above and find out what the word "generalise" means.

One final question, why is it that you consider me a "troll" just because I disagree with you.

That's not why I think you're a troll. I think you're a troll because you've been in constant attack mode against me in this thread. You don't seem to have ever stopped to read what I wrote, you just attack, attack, attack.

And when you hit dead-ends in attacks, you just dropped those points and attacked again on other points... or went back to other points I've already answered, pretending my earlier answers didn't exist.

I believe I've answered all the questions you asked me. But you've answered almost none of mine.

That's trolling. And that's why you're a troll.

But maybe I'm being unfair. Maybe you're just someone who doesn't know what the word "generalise" means... but keep using it anyway and getting angry with people who don't agree with the point you think you're making.

In which case, calm down dear.

Steve

 

[directmarketingadvice]

Yes you too can be wrong sometimes. It's a part of life.

I certainly can be.

Stop taking things so personally

If you'd had a go at me for that post in this thread, I wouldn't have thought anything.

The fact you made it about my entire posting history showed it wasn't about this thread.

So, please take your own advice. Give up your petty grudges. They won't make you happy.

Steve

 

[FaerieB]

Oh I don't know Mrs B, I like those shows because it's nice to see people with more stupid business ideas than I've had :redface:

A flea for making me laugh but seriously they humiliate genuine people in the name of entertainment, which is of course an industry in itself x

 

[internetspaceships]

I certainly can be.



If you'd had a go at me for that post in this thread, I wouldn't have thought anything.

The fact you made it about my entire posting history showed it wasn't about this thread.

So, please take your own advice. Give up your petty grudges. They won't make you happy.

Steve

I try to make a reasoned post and you miss the point entirely. You're obviously not to be reasoned with.

You carry on assuming there's a grudge somewhere. There isn't one, but thinking there is might make you feel better somehow.

 

[Atilla]

I can't stand any TV programs that use and humiliate people for the entertainment of others ... but that's just me ...

I agree.
But these are people who big themselves up and put themselves forward for said humiliation.


Could any of them actually win over your average workforce and lead the company onto success?

That'll be a no then.

 

[FaerieB]

I agree.
But these are people who big themselves up and put themselves forward for said humiliation.


Could any of them actually win over your average workforce and lead the company onto success?

That'll be a no then.

I agree some of them fall into that category but some are just daft and they are publicly humiliated ... just something I personally hate to watch

Still it makes good TV and good money for a select few x

 

I try to make a reasoned post and you miss the point entirely. You're obviously not to be reasoned with.

You carry on assuming there's a grudge somewhere. There isn't one, but thinking there is might make you feel better somehow.

Originally Posted by internetspaceships
Good lord Gibson, one day you'll surprise us all and say something that isn't completely banal.

If it walks like a duck....................................

Or you can fool some of the people................:|

Earl

 

[internetspaceships]

Earl that's not a grudge it's an opinion. I'm allowed that as mush as anyone is allowed to dispute it.

A lot of Steve's recent posts in various threads have been putting down folk who have disagreed with him. Often in a completely rude way.

I am expressing my dissatisfaction with that as I'm fortunately allowed to do

 

[GeorgeStrait]

I sort of agree a bit with Mrs B, you do feel sorry for some on Dragon's Den who are humiliated and you squirm with embarrassment for them. But it's usually down to their own lack of preparation, or unrealistic expectations. So you could say it's their own fault.

As to the one's on the apprentice, they all know what they are getting into, just like any reality TV show. You'll probably end up looking a right dweeb, but you just might end up with a career and a generous amount of cash. Takes a certain sort of person to put themselves up for that potential, and very public, fall.

 

[internetspaceships]

Aye there's also a lot of people who pitch up on Dragon's Den with no intention whatsoever of taking a deal. They just do it for the publicity.

 

[directmarketingadvice]

A lot of Steve's recent posts in various threads have been putting down folk who have disagreed with him. Often in a completely rude way.

So that's why you're out to get me?

That's funny. Earlier today it wasn't personal, now you're saying it is.

Maybe we should run a book on whether you'll be saying it's personal tomorrow, or whether you'll be saying it's no such thing.

Anyone want to suggest some odds?

I'd suggest:

"not personal": 4/11
"personal": 7/4

(Note: that market applies only to his first post. If he happens to do a 180 a couple of hours later, that doesn't change the result.)

Steve

Disclaimer #1: these odds are not actually available and, therefore, not binding. I was merely making a point.

Disclaimer #2: this post should not be interpreted as supporting unlicensed bookmaking. Breaking the law is very naughty, and don't you forget it!

 

A lot of Steve's recent posts in various threads have been putting down folk who have disagreed with him. Often in a completely rude way.

I am sure there is an element of truth in that as there would be for many members including myself.

But suggesting that a members total posts are banal is a bit OTT ,knowing full well that the member in question has provided many many usefull posts.

Its called below the belt and either shows an element of S stirring or a personal dislike.

Both of which are a common human condition,and may be forgiven in time.

P.S my signature is not quite the joke it may appear.

Earl

 

[GeorgeStrait]

Aye there's also a lot of people who pitch up on Dragon's Den with no intention whatsoever of taking a deal. They just do it for the publicity.

And many who get rejected go on to do ok. One that comes to mind is that chap with the pre-filled wine glasses. Got told it wouldn't work and his products are now in M&S.

As you say, it's all publicity which can't be bad if your idea is halfway sensible.

 

[internetspaceships]

Haha Earl, I've been analysed by you in the past as I'm sure you'll recall

Seriously though it's not a personal dislike for the aforementioned chap, I genuinely found the recent posts to be banal.

I've been hauled over the coals a few times here for statements I've made but I don't take it as a personal vendetta. Even when the accuser is completely wrong, and I smell of roses

 

[webstore]

Recently, Lord Sugar commented that "Engineers do not make good business people", or words to that effect. This was apparently during an episode of the TV programme 'The Apprentice'.

I have to say that I did not see the program in question, but I, like many others, was particularly insensed by his remarks!

Do you think engineers make good business people? Or am I (an engineer) completely sunk!

I actually AGREE with Lord Sugar !

I am a fully qualified electronics engineer by profession and back in the '80s I started a computer distribution business from scratch which I then sold 9-years later - when it was getting a bit too large and when I was getting out of my depth as a businessman.

(Today that business is one of the largest computer distribution businesses in the UK. If you want to find out more, click on oldstock.com URL below and click on the LinkedIn button).

Yes I know there are the Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, James Dyson's etc etc but they are few and far between.

Maybe the answer would be for universities etc as well as providing engineering / software training, to include an element of business training. I know it would have helped me, rather than having to be self-taught and learning from my mistakes.
.

 

Haha Earl, I've been analysed by you in the past as I'm sure you'll recall

Seriously though it's not a personal dislike for the aforementioned chap, I genuinely found the recent posts to be banal.

I've been hauled over the coals a few times here for statements I've made but I don't take it as a personal vendetta. Even when the accuser is completely wrong, and I smell of roses

Yep I am sure you feel better after your little games.

If not tad nervous.

Earl

 

[internetspaceships]

Games? Nah.

Nervous? Never.