Living Person and Natural Sovereign Defence?

[UK Contractor Accountant]

Has anybody come accross the argument that that a living man or women naturally sovereign is not bound by Government Laws or Statues?

Just reading up on a recent Magistates Court Case where Northumbrian Water took Yvonne Watson to Court to get a CCJ for unpaid water bills.

The Judge recognised that she was a Living Person not bound to her legal name Yvonne Watson and as such the debt was unenforceable.

Yvonne Watson was in effect a Corporation created by the state and as a living or natural person the plaintiff has no contract with Yvonne or whatever she wants to call herself.

The Judge made a point of hugging the defendent at the end of the case.

Had a client recently who is arguing the same defence against a personal tax debt.

 

[Newchodge]

Has anybody come accross the argument that that a living man or women naturally sovereign is not bound by Government Laws or Statues?

No, never. That would mean no-one is subject to law! Have you got a reference?

 

[DontAsk]

I've seen the argument many times, recently (past few days) in Australia, but never a successful defence.

 

[Scalloway]

We have a local natural sovereign individual who is still trying it at the age of 82 and a spell in jail to persuade the sheriff that this works.

Campaigner Hill jailed after refusing to pay fine or carry out unpaid work

AN ELDERLY sovereign campaigner will spend the next three months in jail after refusing to carry out just 75 hours of unpaid work. Stuart Hill said he would...

www.shetnews.co.uk

 

[Mark T Jones]

As far as I can make out (the narrative around the case is very skewed) - the actual case was around whether there was an actual contract in place, since the dependent never signed or specifically agreed to it.

I may be wrong, of course

As @Newchodge has suggested, whilst people applaud these things, those same people will be deeply upset when they are the ones not being paid.

 

[WaveJumper]

Interesting yes have heard of this but was under the impression it never washed with the courts, but thank you for sending me down a rabbit hole with AI whilst slurping my coffee this morning I am now into the history of said arguments

 

[Newchodge]

Just reading up on a recent Magistates Court Case where Northumbrian Water took Yvonne Watson to Court to get a CCJ for unpaid water bills.

Aren't CCJ's issued by the county court?

Are you sure this was genuine?

 

[Frank the Insurance guy]

Interesting yes have heard of this but was under the impression it never washed with the courts, but thank you for sending me down a rabbit hole with AI whilst slurping my coffee this morning I am now into the history of said arguments

Can you let us know the outcome of your research - to save me time doing it

Interesting case....and a little bizarre?

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

The judge who hugged a living woman

There are many good people trapped in a bad justice system and see its faults

newsletter.martingeddes.com

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

STATEMENT OF TRUTH - TO BE ENTERED INTO RECORD
I, Yvonne Watson, proclaim that I stand here as a living woman of flesh and blood, created by the Divine, under Natural Law. I hold unalienable rights granted by the Creator that no man, institution, or court can lawfully remove or override.
I appear today only to state my standing and to establish the truth. I do not submit to any presumed corporate or statutory jurisdiction.
I live in honour: I follow Natural Law, I cause no harm, loss, or injury to any living being, and I honour every agreement I knowingly make. No other being is authorised to sign or act on my behalf.
Therefore, I require Northumbrian Water and this court to:
1. Prove lawful jurisdiction over me, a divine living woman.
2. Provide evidence of a valid bilateral agreement—lawfully entered into by me with full consent-that grants Northumbrian Water any lawful claim.
Without proof of jurisdiction and a valid agreement, there is no lawful claim.
Any presumptions or instruments attempting to bind me without my consent are rebutted and void under Natural Law.
I require this matter to be dismissed unless such proof is produced.
This testimony is true, given in peace and honour. I stand by it fully.
And so it is.
Yvonne Watson - Living Woman
6th August 2025

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

The judge accepted Yvonne’s statement as being truth, and on the record. She also recognised Yvonne was asserting her status as some personal hardship. While Yvonne technically did not win the case, and costs were awarded against the fiction, they cannot be collected, as Yvonne herself has declined to form joinder with that fiction in this situation. She is not a “paper slave”, but a sovereign being. When the hearing was over, the judge, clearly moved by her personal courage, came down from her podium and gave Yvonne a hug, and invited Northumbrian Water into a conversation about what had happened — which they declined. It isn’t like they can complain about judicial bias, as the judgement notionally went their way.

 

[MikeJ]

Lots of links going back to the same source. Nothing on a genuine news outlet or on a court page. I'm going with "Didn't Happen"

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

That would mean no-one is subject to law!

Its mainly used for speeding fines & utility bills where they are argue there is no binding contract.

Take Council tax, for example, I cant ever remember signing up for services or signing a contract from my local Council! What Jurisdiction do they have over me to collect made up bills?

That's their argument and the fact that these Councils make up there own Court and just rent a room at the Court Houses when they Summons you.

 

[MikeJ]

Lots of mentions of "The Court", but no mention of which court for example. No way of checking records.

 

[Newchodge]

The judge who hugged a living woman

There are many good people trapped in a bad justice system and see its faults

newsletter.martingeddes.com

I am sorry, that is just complete garbage. It is the fantasy of the writer.

I know the county court in Newcastle. There is no podium, the judge sits at a desk with the parties to the case. The 'courtroom' is a large office. You cannot actually hear the tannoy (which is for the criminal courts, housed in the same building) from the waiting area of the county court. There is very little space for an audience.

She also, even according to this rubbish 'lost the case' and costs were awarded against her.

 

[Newchodge]

Its mainly used for speeding fines & utility bills where they are argue there is no binding contract.

Take Council tax, for example, I cant ever remember signing up for services or signing a contract from my local Council! What Jurisdiction do they have over me to collect made up bills?

That's their argument and the fact that these Councils make up there own Court and just rent a room at the Court Houses when they Summons you.

Council tax goes to the Magistrates Court because non-payment is a criminal matter. Your obligation to pay Council Tax is enshrined in law and is not a contractual obligation. Non-payment of a utility bill is a civil, contractual matter. It goes to the Magistrate's Court if the utility company is seeking a warrant to enter the property and cut off the supply. Except water companies cannot do that.

the fact that these Councils make up there own Court and just rent a room at the Court Houses when they Summons you.

No they don't. The Council sends a council officer to the court to present the cases. Very few non-payers ever attend and it is done as a batch, unless someone is there to defend the case. It is still a Magistrate's Court appearance.

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

Council tax goes to the Magistrates Court because non-payment is a criminal matter.

no its not its a Civil Matter

 

[Newchodge]

no its not its a Civil Matter

You can go to prison for non payment of Council tax. You can't go to prison for debt.

 

[fisicx]

You can go to prison for non payment of Council tax. You can't go to prison for debt.

Yes but it's very rare:

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2025-01-13/23550/

 

[Newchodge]

Yes but it's very rare:

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2025-01-13/23550/

But it is legal. Sending someone to prison for non payment of their water bill would not be legal.

 

[DontAsk]

Council tax goes to the Magistrates Court because non-payment is a criminal matter.

You can go to prison for non payment of Council tax. You can't go to prison for debt.

Errm...

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2025-01-13/23550/

First para of the answer "Non-payment of council tax is not a criminal offence and cannot attract a custodial sentence. However, under the committal to prison process, a court order can provide for someone to be jailed for failing to pay a debt.

 

[MikeJ]

deleted.

 

[Newchodge]

Errm...

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2025-01-13/23550/

First para of the answer "Non-payment of council tax is not a criminal offence and cannot attract a custodial sentence. However, under the committal to prison process, a court order can provide for someone to be jailed for failing to pay a debt.

Thank you, my mistake. It is not a criminal matter but it is dealt with by Magistrate's Court summons like a crime. All other debt is dealt with by CCJ, CC being County Court.

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

Individuals in cases where there has been a committal to prison will not necessarily go to prison where payment is made. No individual has been admitted to prison for non-payment of council tax between 2019 and 2023

Data on the number of committals to prison and suspended committals to prison for council tax non-payment since 2019 can be found in the table below:

National	2019	2020	2021	2022	2023	Jan - Sept 2024 *
Number cases of Committals to Prison for non-payment of council tax	11	1	1	0	2	0
Number Cases of Suspended Committal Orders for non-payment of council tax	395	66	15	24	19	13

 

[Newchodge]

Individuals in cases where there has been a committal to prison will not necessarily go to prison where payment is made. No individual has been admitted to prison for non-payment of council tax between 2019 and 2023

So what? The law allows a person to be sent to prison for non payment of council tax.

 

[Nathanto]

The Judge recognised that she was a Living Person not bound to her legal name Yvonne Watson and as such the debt was unenforceable.

As @Newchodge point out, that's not what happened; even her own supporters admit she lost the case and the judge awarded costs against her!

(The claim the judge gave her a hug is bizarre but completely irrelevant - maybe they just felt sorry for someone who was clearly a vulnerable person?)

 

[Newchodge]

The judge accepted Yvonne’s statement as being truth, and on the record. She also recognised Yvonne was asserting her status as some personal hardship. While Yvonne technically did not win the case, and costs were awarded against the fiction, they cannot be collected, as Yvonne herself has declined to form joinder with that fiction in this situation. She is not a “paper slave”, but a sovereign being. When the hearing was over, the judge, clearly moved by her personal courage, came down from her podium and gave Yvonne a hug, and invited Northumbrian Water into a conversation about what had happened — which they declined. It isn’t like they can complain about judicial bias, as the judgement notionally went their way.

For Heaven's sake. Every judge in the civil court will listen attentively to everything the claimant has to say, especially when they are unrepresented. That does not mean the judge accepts everything as truth. They accept it as what the individual wishes to say.

 

[NickGrogan]

We had someone try this for an energy company I work with. They claimed they were natural citizen and that their house was a separate country within the UK and so didn't have to pay, as there was no treaty, etc, etc.

We wrote back, thanking them, accepting everything they said, and explaining that we weren't able to supply electricity outside of the UK. We also informed them that we'd be disconnecting the supply remotely in 7 days.

They called and paid the same day.

I regularly get people asking if they can install their own meter, so that the supplier won't own it, and therefore they can't read it, and they'll get free gas or power.

 

[WaveJumper]

Ok with the risk of getting deleted my AI summarised this as follows, I should add somewhere along the way it also stated basically a person trying this on (my own words) ended up with a fine and the other party be awarded costs.

For some strange reason it got me thinking about the people who took over the fort out in the Thames Estuary and claimed it as a principality, I think they even made up their own currency ..... I digress

AI summary (for Lisa )

• Courts Consistently Reject These Claims
  • In the U.S., Canada, UK, Australia, and New Zealand, judges label these arguments “frivolous” or “pseudo-legal nonsense.”
  • Example: In United States v. Benabe (2011), a U.S. court ruled that “sovereign citizen” arguments are not valid defenses and people remain subject to jurisdiction.
• Practical Consequences
  • Filing court documents with sovereign claims can lead to case dismissal, fines, or even contempt of court charges.
  • Trying to avoid taxes, licenses, or registration on this basis often leads to criminal charges.
• Why They Fail
  • Governments don’t require personal “consent” for their laws to apply — they apply to all persons within the territory.
  • Citizenship and residency establish jurisdiction automatically.

My summary:

They are coming for us and we are all screwed

 

[japancool]

Has anybody come accross the argument that that a living man or women naturally sovereign is not bound by Government Laws or Statues?

Just reading up on a recent Magistates Court Case where Northumbrian Water took Yvonne Watson to Court to get a CCJ for unpaid water bills.

The Judge recognised that she was a Living Person not bound to her legal name Yvonne Watson and as such the debt was unenforceable.

Yvonne Watson was in effect a Corporation created by the state and as a living or natural person the plaintiff has no contract with Yvonne or whatever she wants to call herself.

The Judge made a point of hugging the defendent at the end of the case.

Had a client recently who is arguing the same defence against a personal tax debt.

Don't get me started on the whole sovereign citizen thing.

 

[UKSBD]

Don't get me started on the whole sovereign citizen thing.

Be careful posting things like that or you might get a visit from a Common Law Constable

 

[japancool]

Be careful posting things like that or you might get a visit from a Common Law Constable

I'll arrest him.

 

[cjd]

This is all utter bullsh1t. It doesn't work and it never works, the courts have seen this and all its variants thousands of times. The 'Feemen of the Land' are the usual idiots.

You can't get jailed for non-payment of utility bills; they're civil offences only. But if the non-payment was for fraudulent use or meter tampering they become crimes and prison could be a factor.

You absolutely can go to jail for non-payment of council tax if the council has taken their case to a magistrate's court for a liability order and later proved to the court that the continued non-payment was wilful refusal.

No judge has ever hugged a defendant - they would be disbarred. In any case, they can't get anywhere near them without jumping the witness box which would have every alarm in the court go off. ffs.

 

[Michael Loveridge]

Has anybody come accross the argument that that a living man or women naturally sovereign is not bound by Government Laws or Statues?

Just reading up on a recent Magistates Court Case where Northumbrian Water took Yvonne Watson to Court to get a CCJ for unpaid water bills.

The Judge recognised that she was a Living Person not bound to her legal name Yvonne Watson and as such the debt was unenforceable.

Yvonne Watson was in effect a Corporation created by the state and as a living or natural person the plaintiff has no contract with Yvonne or whatever she wants to call herself.

The Judge made a point of hugging the defendent at the end of the case.

Had a client recently who is arguing the same defence against a personal tax debt.

Just to confirm the other contributions that this story is utter nonsense. It’s quite clearly a completely fictional story, as it’s not corroborated in any credible news source, and if a judge in any UK court had hugged a defendant it would have been front page news.

The fact that the story has been repeated and applauded on Facebook and TikTok merely reinforces my belief that most users of such platforms are gullible idiots.

 

[Solvelaw]

I accept the law is fundamentally abstract, but it is enforceable. The true legal test case would be fractional reserve banking and creating money from nothing.....

 

[Michael Loveridge]

I accept the law is fundamentally abstract, but it is enforceable. The true legal test case would be fractional reserve banking and creating money from nothing.....

What law are you talking about?

 

[Solvelaw]

What law are you talking about?

nothing specific just generally.

 

[RN3]

Is there any evidence if anyone not paying council tax, gas and elec and water rates (which are now tied into your tenancy agreement) in a Council House? Id love to know. Is it any different? TiA

 

[MikeJ]

No..

Pay your bills.

 

[Nathanto]

Is there any evidence if anyone not paying council tax, gas and elec and water rates in a Council House?

Yes, there's loads of evidence.

Thousands of such cases end up in court every year where the non-payer ends up much worse off with penalties, goods seized, automatic deductions from wages by your employer and even bankruptcy.

In rare cases non-payers are even sent to prison although you'd have to be really silly to allow that to happen; only a handful of people have been that dull in recent years.