Law on night shifts

[purple mk2]

My 18 year old Son started work at a new McDonalds back in September, but, after initial training has gradually had his day shifts reduced, to the point that he is now on permanent nights. It's his first job and he doesn't want to rock the boat, but last night he was on shift at 8.15pm and I picked him up at 6.15am. He'd had a 45 minute break! He is exhausted and no longer sees any of his friends. He has just been told that he's now got to work seven consecutive nights. Is this lawful and what can he do? Many thanks.

 

[john1989]

He can't work more than 48 hours without opting out of the legal requirements.

Apart from that, everything else seems to be above board.

He is after all 18, I.e. an adult. If he finds night work unsociable he's best looking for another job.

 

[paulears]

He can leave if he wants! The old days of statutory lunch and tea breaks is gone. Many people don't even get a lunch break! They eat at their desks or grab something if they can.

Zero hours contracts mean the work goes to those who work hardest. He's done a ten hour day, with a break in the middle. Oh dear how sad. If he is exhausted, then at 18 he shouldn't be.

I'm not being harsh, but life is not easy, and if he doesn't want to work these hours, he doesn't have to.

9 and a quarter hours is hardly excessive. I wish my life was that easy!

Most employers expect you to opt out - or they'll find somebody else! As for not being able to see his friends - when you start work, those kinds of things drift away, or don't you remember what growing up was all about.

Sorry for the tone - but I'm amazed somebody thinks like this any more?

 

[Charlie B ACS]

paulears,

I agree with you on the working day length, but having to do 7 days of this on the trot is excessive, and against the law, unless, of course, he has opted out.

OP, if he has opted out of the Working time directive, he can opt back in, in writing, but he may find himself surplus to requirements.

 

[paulears]

I know really - I'm just amazed a parent doesn't just pat his son on the back and say welcome to the real world. I'm self-employed, and 7 days a week of 14 hours or more can be normal, and no opt out for me! I suspect the jobs with 37 hours a week, 9 to 5 are a lot rarer than people believe. My business involves period of stupidly long hours interspersed with lean periods.

In all seriousness, many employers turn up the heat at the start to test their new employees. It's a good way to form an opinion of them. My daughter in law finds jobs for people who have been on benefits for too long - she hears this kind of thing all the time! Toughen up time!

 

[Charlie B ACS]

I don't disagree. However, having somebody, who has been working nights for 6 nights already, is tired, and is working with Deep Fat fryers is a bit of a receipe for disaster.

 

[paulears]

I'm not so sure, I don't want to sound like I'm on a witch hunt, but my wife works for the NHS, and their shift system means that she can often work every day for nearly two weeks, when it's her turn to cover the weekends, taking the time for this extra as TOIL when the shift rotates.

My business involves all kinds of entertainment - if you've ever been on a cruise ship, the foreign guys who do the washing, cleaning and cooking may well work 12 hours a day with NO days off at all for months - sending all their money home to the family. This, we call exploitation, but in their country, they're rich people when they eventually stop it. Working in MacDonalds isn't the hardest work in the world - you're just on your feet all the time!

 

[Newchodge]

My 18 year old Son started work at a new McDonalds back in September, but, after initial training has gradually had his day shifts reduced, to the point that he is now on permanent nights. It's his first job and he doesn't want to rock the boat, but last night he was on shift at 8.15pm and I picked him up at 6.15am. He'd had a 45 minute break! He is exhausted and no longer sees any of his friends. He has just been told that he's now got to work seven consecutive nights. Is this lawful and what can he do? Many thanks.

He cannot be asked to do these hours overnight. The maximum allowable night shift is 8 hours in 24. He cannot be asked to work more than 6 days a week without a 24 hour break, or, over 2 weeks, a consecutive 48 hour break.

If he points out these rgulations and gets sacked because of doing so, he can claim unfair dismissal even though he doesn't have 2 years' service, as he would be asswerting a statutory right.

He must be given at least a 20 minute uninterrupted break if he works 6 hours or more.

The only part of the working time directive that you can opt out of is the 48 hour weekly maximum.

 

[fairdealworld]

The first catch is Purple mk2 that most self-employed people and small business owners work incredibly long hours and therefore aren't very concerned about other people having to work slightly long hours. The second catch is that McDonald's are not known as being good employers, in fact I'm slightly surprised that he's managed to get a full time job with them as they are prone to recruiting lots of people and then just offering them odd shifts here and there.

I don't think it is a disaster that your son has to work these hours though I do feel slightly sorry for him if he didn't realise the possibility of ending up doing lots of or all nightshift. On the other hand if you apply for a job somewhere which is open 24 hours a day, and you are aged 18 or over, the writing is on the wall to some extent. What was said about shifts during the interview and what is in your son's contract about shifts?

I suppose the other question is why is he working at MacDonald's and what are his plans for the future? Does he have some hopes of getting training and promotion within MacDonald's? Was it the only job available so he took it as a stop gap? Or does he lack skills and is thereby condemned to jobs of this type? Someone of this age might be much better off on an apprenticeship for example? People with desirable skills do tend to get better working hours and conditions because their employers need them!

There are rules about night working which you can see here:

https://www.gov.uk/night-working-hours/hours-and-limits

but they are complex.

N.B. If you son is working longer shifts, he is better off having as short a break as possible. It is unlikely that he is paid for his break period - it isn't the norm to pay for the meal break though some employers do so - while he's working he is earning, while he's on break he's not and presumably there is little of interest to do in or around a MacDonald's at the dead of night. If you are going to be at work for a longer period, you might just as well get as much money out of it as possible.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

The most basic thing is also the hardest for new people in a job, talk to the manager about now and what the future holds, something along the lines of "i'm ok to work these night shifts at present if it helps out, but can you tell me what my future hours are likely to be, and my parents have told me there is a limit on the number of consecutive nights i am allowed to work, "

 

[paulears]

He can of course ask those questions, and see his hours dwindle away. This happens continually to people on zero hours contracts. The hours go to those least likely to rock the boat. As the McDonalds is likely to be a franchise, then the management may have little traditional business experience and will allocate hours quite off the cuff - The food industry is notorious for what is often called exploitation. Night work limits don't include overtime, so if the shift is 8 hours, plus a couple of extra hours, then that is fudge room, as is the use of 'occasional night work. So one week of nights in 3 or 4 weeks of days could be deemed occasional, especially if it's not a permanent arrangement. Asking people do do this kind of working arrangement stinks, of course, but how much does he want the job?

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

Contrary to what’s been said above, there’s nothing whatsoever legally wrong with these hours. He can be asked to work these hours, and they aren’t against the Working Time Regulations.


Regulation 6 of the WTR 1998 deals with the length of night work, but it’s the average hours over a reference period (normally, and probably in this case, 17 weeks). The hours worked this week are more than Reg 6 permits, but these are not the only or permanent work patterns, and only when these are the norm over a reference period of 17 weeks could it be said the hours/shifts are too long, and he can object.

The weekly rest period (Reg 11) can be a rest period of 48 hours in a 14-day period, so again nothing wrong with working seven nights.

He's classified as an adult worker (Reg 2) so nothing to protect him from being asked to work hard or unsociable shifts.


Karl Limpert

 

[LawSpark]

Try ACAS for free employment law advice... you can get free advice via a phoneline. I can see why you are concerned..

 

[14Steve14]

If he is being asked to work 7 nights in a row, what comes next. Does he get several days off, or a change to day shift. You haven't said this bit.

As to not seeing his friends, he ought to get them to go to McDonalds, then he can see them, he will have to serve them mind but he will be earning money whilst doing so.