Landlord obligations regarding EICR and rent free period

[rubyred81]

We signed our lease April 12th, a FRI, we used a solicitor, but it's still just a bog standard commercial lease.

The landlord agreed to a 1 month rent free period to enable us to fit the shop out. We also paid 1 months rent in advance.
We were also told in writing that the EICR and Gas checks would be completed.

When we entered the property, there was no electric due to outstanding debt, it had been disconnected. There was also a notice from the High Court that they would be gaining entry on 28th May to disconnect the gas. The property had been empty since November 13th, so they'd had more than enough time to rectify all issues.

It took several weeks to sort everything out and change the accounts to our name.

The electricity was reconnected on May 10th.
We then had the ECIR done at our expense as the landlord was not engaging.
The EICR report showed that some areas were dangerously old and needed replacing.

We had previously sent several emails highlighting the issues, stating that we can instruct an electrician and either he invoice the landlord or we will pay and deduct from the rent. We also stated that as we could not do any work in the shop and as agreed the rent free period will be extended. No response to anything.

We have had no contact from the landlord at all. The letting agent sent me the landlord's bank details plus a screenshot of the insurance premium. I queried this and said that we are only liable from when we signed the lease, no response.

We have applied to the local council for the Business grants that we are eligible for, one of them is to improve the fronts of local businesses. I have applied for
New Roller Shutters
The front to be cleaned and painted and a New Shop Sign

The landlord has to give written permission that this work can go ahead.
The landlord is refusing to do this as, according to him, we are behind with the rent and owe 5 months insurance premiums.

He will not reimburse us for the EICR as he said he could've got it done much cheaper.
The shop is 112 m2 plus there's an office, kitchen&bathroom upstairs. The cost of the EICR including VAT was £780. I did have other quotes and they were all similar prices.

We also have to have a new roof, it's due to not maintaining it over the years, we know we are responsible for it.

I know we've made a lot of rookie mistakes, but the landlord is costing us trade, and even if we would have had a surveyor, the landlord would not have spent money to rectify anything.

What are our rights regarding having an extended rent free period due to non disclosed electricity disconnection and also the EICR and Gas Checks.

He is refusing to budge as he said we shouldn't have done it ourselves as he said he was going to arrange it and it would have been less than a quarter of what we have paid. I understand this, but he had 5 months before we signed the lease and 6 weeks after we signed it. I knew that we had to ensure the place was safe.

Is it just easier for us to not make an issue of anything and pay the rent from June and accept that we have to pay for the EICR and also the remedial work? I was hoping for a good working relationship. We are improving his property, we just need his permission to do so.
Any advice would be greatfully received.

 

[WaveJumper]

We signed our lease April 12th, a FRI, we used a solicitor, but it's still just a bog standard commercial lease.

Well I am sorry to say you may have thought this to be "bog standard" but appear to have received very little advice from your solicitor, and now you've dug yourself into a hole.

The landlord agreed to a 1 month rent free period to enable us to fit the shop out. We also paid 1 months rent in advance.
We were also told in writing that the EICR and Gas checks would be completed.

I would not have signed lease until this had be undertaken. You go onto mention further down you did not get a surveyor onboard, you should have done. All items needing attention could have then been raised with the landlord and either undertaken before signing or even an agreement to a much longer rent free period say six months or more depending on level of works required.

When we entered the property, there was no electric due to outstanding debt, it had been disconnected. There was also a notice from the High Court that they would be gaining entry on 28th May to disconnect the gas. The property had been empty since November 13th, so they'd had more than enough time to rectify all issues.

Virtually (in my experience) any empty retail unit will have outstanding debts on utilities, especially if they have not been transferred over to the landlords name. This should have been confirmed by you before signing lease and obviously any issues had the landlord sort out.

It took several weeks to sort everything out and change the accounts to our name.

The electricity was reconnected on May 10th.
We then had the ECIR done at our expense as the landlord was not engaging.
The EICR report showed that some areas were dangerously old and needed replacing.

We had previously sent several emails highlighting the issues, stating that we can instruct an electrician and either he invoice the landlord or we will pay and deduct from the rent. We also stated that as we could not do any work in the shop and as agreed the rent free period will be extended. No response to anything.

Generally you are responsible for the "shell" of the unit so anything needs doing is going to be down to you.

We have had no contact from the landlord at all. The letting agent sent me the landlord's bank details plus a screenshot of the insurance premium. I queried this and said that we are only liable from when we signed the lease, no response.

On the face of it yes, the fact they have not responded is down to them in my book, you are obviously not going to pay any more then you should. Out of interest are you on the hook for any other service charge items.

We have applied to the local council for the Business grants that we are eligible for, one of them is to improve the fronts of local businesses. I have applied for
New Roller Shutters
The front to be cleaned and painted and a New Shop Sign

The landlord has to give written permission that this work can go ahead.
The landlord is refusing to do this as, according to him, we are behind with the rent and owe 5 months insurance premiums.

Again unfortunately until you sort out the issues of rent / insurance and get the written permission required from the landlord you will have to put your plans on the back burner.

He will not reimburse us for the EICR as he said he could've got it done much cheaper.
The shop is 112 m2 plus there's an office, kitchen&bathroom upstairs. The cost of the EICR including VAT was £780. I did have other quotes and they were all similar prices.

We also have to have a new roof, it's due to not maintaining it over the years, we know we are responsible for it.

Sorry but you should have had a survey done, what else could be wrong with the building

I know we've made a lot of rookie mistakes, but the landlord is costing us trade, and even if we would have had a surveyor, the landlord would not have spent money to rectify anything.

Well a proper survey and the correct legal advice would have stopped you signing on the dotted line until all the "wrinkles" had been sorted and covered off.

What are our rights regarding having an extended rent free period due to non disclosed electricity disconnection and also the EICR and Gas Checks.

No rights now for an extended rent free

He is refusing to budge as he said we shouldn't have done it ourselves as he said he was going to arrange it and it would have been less than a quarter of what we have paid. I understand this, but he had 5 months before we signed the lease and 6 weeks after we signed it. I knew that we had to ensure the place was safe.

Is it just easier for us to not make an issue of anything and pay the rent from June and accept that we have to pay for the EICR and also the remedial work? I was hoping for a good working relationship. We are improving his property, we just need his permission to do so.
Any advice would be greatfully received.

I am sorry but it does sounds like the landlord is quite happy to sit back and let you improve his property and of course its market value.

How long is the lease for and is there a break clause

 

[rubyred81]

Thanks for the quick reply, we've signed a 5 year lease with a 3 year break clause. The landlord had run this shop himself for about 30 years, there was a previous tennant but only from October 22 to November 23, I know we should have had a survey done, but he wouldn't have paid for the work, so it would've meant we either didn't sign and look for another property, that wasn't an option, as this property is in a prime trading location.
So it looks like we will have to just suck it up and learn from it. One more question, is the landlord liable for the initial gas safety checks or is that down to us also?

 

[Chris Ashdown]

So get a survey done yourself as soon as possible so when you come to lave in 5 years time you can prove the state of the building when you took over, Why would he pay for the survey you were the mug who did not.. now I guess you are responsible for everything and can expect a bill plus vat from the landlord for building insurance its their way of making sure they are covered, the rest is up to you to cover

 

[rubyred81]

I didn't expect him to pay for the survey, I said if a survey had been done, he would not have rectified any work, so we would still be in a position that we would have to pay for the work, or look for other premises. We have hundreds of photos of the property, it states in the lease that we have not got to leave it in a better position than when we signed, so does that mean we can rip everything out when we leave? My question was regarding a gas safety certificate, I know we have to have a yearly one, but does the landlord have to issue an initial one?

 

[fisicx]

Only if it says so in the lease

 

[WaveJumper]

This is difficult now, and my advice is you should go back to your solicitor who in the first instance, should have known the landlord was required to supply a copy of a current gas safety certificate, he in fact should have requested copies of all certificates ranging from electrical to asbestos surveys and advised you not to sign the lease until these had been seen.

Go back to your solicitor before you throw anymore money into this

 

[rubyred81]

This is difficult now, and my advice is you should go back to your solicitor who in the first instance, should have known the landlord was required to supply a copy of a current gas safety certificate, he in fact should have requested copies of all certificates ranging from electrical to asbestos surveys and advised you not to sign the lease until these had been seen.

Go back to your solicitor before you throw anymore money into this

Thank you, yes, we're going to see a solicitor this week, we realise we've made a few mistakes. We've taken hundreds of detailed photos, plus we have the electricians report, but is it still worth getting a schedule of conditions/diplidation survey done? Apart from the EICR and a few plumbing jobs, nothing else has been done yet, so it's still in the same condition.
We did try to arrange for a surveyor prior to signing the lease, but either our emails were ignored or there was an excuse. I know we were very naive, it's definitely a massive learning curve.

 

[fisicx]

Your problem is your have already signed the lease. Which means you have accepted the property in the existing condition.

 

[rubyred81]

Your problem is your have already signed the lease. Which means you have accepted the property in the existing condition.

Yes, I know this, we should have had one prior to signing, but as we didn't, is it worth getting one now before we start work on the shop, as a protection for further down the line.

 

[fisicx]

Don’t do anything more, don’t even enter the building, until you have engaged a solicitor. Let them sort it all out for you. It’s quite possible there has been a breach of contract and you will be able to exit the lease. But let the solicitor advise.

Consider also that if the landlord is being difficult now, it could easily get much worse.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

if a survey had been done, he would not have rectified any work, so we would still be in a position that we would have to pay for the work

Yes, but you would have an independent record of the state of the property.

We were also told in writing that the EICR and Gas checks would be completed.

If you have that in writing and you are out of pocket, send the landlord an invoice to cover the costs. If they do not pay, chase the debt and small claims, if necessary - They will have no issues taking you to court!

Are you behind on your rent? Regardless of the state of the building, this is grounds to kick you out.

Are you now regretting taking out the lease, regardless of its great position?

 

[rubyred81]

Don’t do anything more, don’t even enter the building, until you have engaged a solicitor. Let them sort it all out for you. It’s quite possible there has been a breach of contract and you will be able to exit the lease. But let the solicitor advise.

Consider also that if the landlord is being difficult now, it could easily get much worse.

Thank you, very good advice

Yes, but you would have an independent record of the state of the property.

If you have that in writing and you are out of pocket, send the landlord an invoice to cover the costs. If they do not pay, chase the debt and small claims, if necessary - They will have no issues taking you to court!

Are you behind on your rent? Regardless of the state of the building, this is grounds to kick you out.

Are you now regretting taking out the lease, regardless of its great position?

Thanks for your reply,

No, we are not behind with the rent, but he is asking for us to reimburse him for the buildings insurance, which I know we are liable for, however, he is ignoring my request for the information to be sent over. He has just sent a screenshot of the whole years premium, he won't acknowledge that we are only liable from April.
We are not regretting taking out the lease, as once these issues have been sorted it'll be a great little business, according to our research, but no, I know the area and I'm glad we've got it, just wish we had a different landlord.
He is refusing to reimburse us for the EICR as he said he could've had his electrician do it for less than a quarter of the price, which would be less than £200. I find that quite alarming, as its a 2 storey building,
112m2 downstairs, upstairs has an office, a kitchen, WC and storeroom. He had 5 months before we signed the lease to get it done and 7 weeks after we signed.
The EICR report has highlighted remedial work also, some of the sockets are from the 1950's.
He will not respond to my query regarding the gas safety check either, and to be honest I wouldn't trust him to get a reputable engineer.
We have not started any work on the property as of yet, we've just had tradesmen around, do you think it's worth getting A Schedule of Conditions done now? I've got 100's of photos but obviously they aren't official.
We are fortunate that a lot of the work is eligible for a 75% business growth grant from the local council, we have to replace the heating system as well. The roof is also in disrepair, which we have to repair.
I'm just itching to get the work done, decorate and start planning our launch day.

 

[fisicx]

I'm just itching to get the work done, decorate and start planning our launch day.

Don't. Be prepared to walk away. Your solicitor may advise that you should not have signed the lease and the breaches make things untenable.

 

[rubyred81]

Don't. Be prepared to walk away. Your solicitor may advise that you should not have signed the lease and the breaches make things untenable.

Unfortunately that's not an option, we've paid legal fees, deposit etc; plus we've had a start up loan, we can't afford to. We've paid £780 for the EICR, that's not a lot of money compared to what we'd lose if we didn't go ahead.
I'm just wondering if it's worth getting a schedule of conditions now, or would it be irrelevant as we didn't do it initially and attach it to the lease.
This is definitely a learning experience.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

Unfortunately that's not an option

It is always an option.

You are in a position where you think you cannot afford to write off the investment. What you need to work out is the cost if you do not!

 

[fisicx]

Unfortunately that's not an option, we've paid legal fees, deposit etc; plus we've had a start up loan, we can't afford to. We've paid £780 for the EICR, that's not a lot of money compared to what we'd lose if we didn't go ahead.
I'm just wondering if it's worth getting a schedule of conditions now, or would it be irrelevant as we didn't do it initially and attach it to the lease.
This is definitely a learning experience.

But what if your solicitor tells you the lease is null and void and you need to renegotiate. And the landlord digs his heels in and won't budge. You could go bust before you even started.

As I said in a earlier post, don't do anything until your solicitor has advised on the next steps. Be prepared for the long haul as it can take months and months to do the negotiations. Maybe even longer if the Landlord isn't interested in your plight. After all, he is getting the rent paid so there is no incentive for them to do anything.

Follow the advice of your solicitor.

 

[rubyred81]

But what if your solicitor tells you the lease is null and void and you need to renegotiate. And the landlord digs his heels in and won't budge. You could go bust before you even started.

As I said in a earlier post, don't do anything until your solicitor has advised on the next steps. Be prepared for the long haul as it can take months and months to do the negotiations. Maybe even longer if the Landlord isn't interested in your plight. After all, he is getting the rent paid so there is no incentive for them to do anything.

Follow the advice of your solicitor.

We have contacted our solicitor, he has looked over the case files and correspondence during the negotiations, and he believes we have a strong case to claim damages, due to misrepresentation and lies on the landlord's part. The landlord has already breached the lease by not providing us with the buildings insurance policy, in order that we can reimburse him, he just keeps sending a photo of the insurance letter. So yeh, always use a solicitor.

 

[fisicx]

Good news, But it may mean you lose the property. If the lease if withdrawn the landlord may no longer want to let you in the door. Is there anything else close by that would work for you.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

he believes we have a strong case

Don't they always!

 

[IanSuth]

Don't they always!

only until you start querying the cost - then it is suddenly really complex requiring loads of research

 

[rubyred81]

Good news, But it may mean you lose the property. If the lease if withdrawn the landlord may no longer want to let you in the door. Is there anything else close by that would work for you.

I don't think he can do that, I've signed a 5 year lease. He's just being pulled up on a few things that he should've taken care of prior to us taking on the property. No, unfortunately this property is exactly what we want, the landlord lied in writing to the solicitor also.

 

[fisicx]

I don't think he can do that, I've signed a 5 year lease. He's just being pulled up on a few things that he should've taken care of prior to us taking on the property. No, unfortunately this property is exactly what we want, the landlord lied in writing to the solicitor also.

But the landlord my decide to tear up the contract rather than fulfill their obligations. Or might make your tenancy unbearable. This property may be exactly what your want but if it all goes pear shaped can you afford to go to court and spend months and months and thousands of pounds and still not get the electrical rectification done.

 

[IanSuth]

it may be because he knows how much you feel it is perfect he is seeing how much he can get away with.

Experience has told me, if you don't have a good relationship with a landlord at the start it won't get better and sure as hell better make sure you have dotted every i and crossed every t as if their is not trust/respect in the relationship then come end of tenancy (at the latest) you will find a lot of unexpected bills/charges/fines/arguments

At the very least if this tenancy is not deemed to not exist (their failure to carry out certain actions and to give your solicitor false info could lead to the contract being voided) then you have to have a full survey asap so that any arguments at the end about dilapidations can be proven and you need every single conversation you have documenting and confirming in writing.

 

[rubyred81]

only until you start querying the cost - then it is suddenly really complex requiring loads of research

He's not invoicing us, he's been lied to by the Landlord also, so he wants to sort it out, he's sent a few emails and I've already heard from the landlord agreeing to things that he wouldn't entertain last week

 

[fisicx]

He's not invoicing us, he's been lied to by the Landlord also, so he wants to sort it out, he's sent a few emails and I've already heard from the landlord agreeing to things that he wouldn't entertain last week

Agreeing to something is not the same as getting it done.

Fingers crossed it all gets done but at what point would you consider walking away? What if they take 6 months or more to bring the property up to standard?