India V China

[101010]

Hi All - I was planning on bringing containers (furniture) in from China but notice India suppliers are becoming prevalent as well (last time I looked was 3 years ago).

Does anyone know the pro's / con's or considerations or could point me in the right direction ?

Thanks all (loving this forum!)

 

[MOIC]

If you want 'Rustic' and 'Hand Made' items go with India. (Expect slight variations to any stock)

Most (Not all) other furniture go with China.

IMHO

Others will have different views.

 

[Ray272]

I'd avoid China like the plague.

Others will have completely different advice and agendas.

 

[Mr D]

I'd avoid China like the plague.

Others will have completely different advice and agendas.

How much furniture in the big showrooms across the country comes from China? Probably at least some....

Seriously, countries don't make the stuff. Down to individual factories.

Like going ewww, not having that item, its made in Britain!
Good and bad factories, good and bad staff. Trick is figuring out if something is worth buying before buying it.

 

[MOIC]

I'd avoid China like the plague.

Others will have completely different advice and agendas.

Ray, you make me laugh! Hope you're keeping well.

No agenda on my part, just good impartial advice.

We supply furniture to customers in the UK, who buy from both China and India, so I can see what they are buying.

India is good for reclaimed wood, iron and leather which has that 'beaten' rugged look and a lot of hand work. China is good for latest designs, man made materials and machine made products.

It depends on the type of furniture you want to buy.

 

[Ray272]

Ray, you make me laugh! Hope you're keeping well.

No agenda on my part, just good impartial advice.

We supply furniture to customers in the UK, who buy from both China and India, so I can see what they are buying.

India is good for reclaimed wood, iron and leather which has that 'beaten' rugged look and a lot of hand work. China is good for latest designs, man made materials and machine made products.

It depends on the type of furniture you want to buy.

Beaten rugged look? is that how cilla would introduce MOIC, contestant number 2?

I am ok thanks Ron hope all is well on your end.

Just my way of saying hello.

 

[MOIC]

Beaten rugged look? is that how cilla would introduce MOIC, contestant number 2?

I am ok thanks Ron hope all is well on your end.

Just my way of saying hello.

I'm looking forward to our drink in GZ.

We'll have tales to tell each other, of that I'm sure.

I was contestant number 6.

 

[CHUKTC]

The top ten exporting countries for furniture (by value) have been reported as follows
1. China (five times the value of number 2 and more than the other 9 combined!)
2. Germany
3. Italy
4. Poland
5. USA
6. Mexico
7. Vietnam
8. Canada
9. Czech Republic
10. Netherlands

 

[Maple Sourcing]

I've not heard many stories about many furniture being made in India. Are you sure India is strong in furniture manufacturing? It's a technology/skill intensed industry.

 

[Clinton]

Politically, there are good reasons to avoid China. If you're starting a new business and have options, take those options! Exclude every possible option before considering China.

China is increasingly becoming the world's pariah - their spats with the US are common knowledge. But anti-China feeling is growing around the world. Even Australia, one of their best friends and a country highly reliant on trade with China, is turning against them.

And this global trend is unlikely to change in a hurry because China is unlikely to change.

China is the world's biggest bully.

They bully other countries and companies on the issue of Taiwan. The rest of the world recognises Taiwan as a country. China doesn't. But they terrorise other countries (and even private companies based in foreign countries!) to not refer to Taiwan as a country.

China's expansionism in the South China sea is well known. They have broken international law, seized territory that does not belong to them, intimidated numerous countries in the vicinity and violated their space with impunity.

Last month they invaded India. India has now boycotted various Chinese suppliers, software, services (like tik-tok). China is investing significantly more than any other country in the world to expand their military power.

They have no respect for human rights.

The government is secretive, deceptive, dodgy. They abuse their citizens by the million. They censor the internet. They do not keep their word on international agreements (see latest news on Hong Kong). And it may still turn out that they did a major cover up on Covid-19.

The world is sitting up and finally taking notice. Also, they are taking action.

The UK has now, at great political cost, reversed their Huawei decision. There will be other anti-China decisions taken by the UK, the EU, the USA and countries around the world in the coming months and years. When it comes to China there may be tariffs, trade barriers, disputes, public boycotts against companies dealing with China, military action....

Those who are already in China - just get the hell out if you can.

Hi All - I was planning on bringing containers (furniture) in from China...

If you're considering starting a new business involving a supplier China ....what?! Are you frigging kidding me? What the hell have you been smoking?

 

[MOIC]

I don't disagree with most of what @Clinton has said above.

I think the issue will be product categories that cannot be made elsewhere that easily or as cheap.

There will always be a 'price v moral' issue.

It will be an interesting next year or two.

 

[RobinBHM]

I know somebody that imports a bit of furniture -martial arts stuff.

He buys it made to his spec in Vietnam, the manufacturer also makes for John Lewis.

Manufacturing is becoming quite advanced in many countries now including Mexico, Poland, Vietnam etc etc.

 

[UKSBD]

He buys it made to his spec in Vietnam, the manufacturer also makes for John Lewis.

You need to be really careful with these manufacturers who are also making products for big companies.

I know of someone who was having something produced and the manufacturer just used the same components used in the other product

Turns out the big company had the design rights registered and threatened him with legal action.

 

[clamp1988]

Politically, there are good reasons to avoid China. If you're starting a new business and have options, take those options! Exclude every possible option before considering China.

Those who are already in China - just get the hell out if you can.

If you're considering starting a new business involving a supplier China ....what?! Are you frigging kidding me? What the hell have you been smoking?

Very well put.

For a bunch of ppl that screwed up the entire world I am surprised at the restrain govt's are showing in isloating them considering they have literally got away with M*****.

 

[Mr D]

Politically, there are good reasons to avoid China. If you're starting a new business and have options, take those options! Exclude every possible option before considering China.

China is increasingly becoming the world's pariah - their spats with the US are common knowledge. But anti-China feeling is growing around the world. Even Australia, one of their best friends and a country highly reliant on trade with China, is turning against them.

And this global trend is unlikely to change in a hurry because China is unlikely to change.

China is the world's biggest bully.

They bully other countries and companies on the issue of Taiwan. The rest of the world recognises Taiwan as a country. China doesn't. But they terrorise other countries (and even private companies based in foreign countries!) to not refer to Taiwan as a country.

China's expansionism in the South China sea is well known. They have broken international law, seized territory that does not belong to them, intimidated numerous countries in the vicinity and violated their space with impunity.

Last month they invaded India. India has now boycotted various Chinese suppliers, software, services (like tik-tok). China is investing significantly more than any other country in the world to expand their military power.

They have no respect for human rights.

The government is secretive, deceptive, dodgy. They abuse their citizens by the million. They censor the internet. They do not keep their word on international agreements (see latest news on Hong Kong). And it may still turn out that they did a major cover up on Covid-19.

The world is sitting up and finally taking notice. Also, they are taking action.

The UK has now, at great political cost, reversed their Huawei decision. There will be other anti-China decisions taken by the UK, the EU, the USA and countries around the world in the coming months and years. When it comes to China there may be tariffs, trade barriers, disputes, public boycotts against companies dealing with China, military action....

Those who are already in China - just get the hell out if you can.



If you're considering starting a new business involving a supplier China ....what?! Are you frigging kidding me? What the hell have you been smoking?

And some of the world still want to borrow money from China too.

Plus buy all that nice cheap stuff from them.

 

[Mr D]

Very well put.

For a bunch of ppl that screwed up the entire world I am surprised at the restrain govt's are showing in isloating them considering they have literally got away with M*****.

Lots of governments have gotten away with murder, breaking international law etc.
Oh you were not describing British government?

We are not lily white.

Just some governments do things more openly than others.

 

[Mr D]

take it from India , it may be cheaper , but the quality is the same . India is goind to become the next China ) in 10 years .

Yes if they can adapt their production.

 

[Ray272]

I don't disagree with most of what @Clinton has said above.

I think the issue will be product categories that cannot be made elsewhere that easily or as cheap.

There will always be a 'price v moral' issue.

It will be an interesting next year or two.

Hold on a sec?

I have been saying exactly what that chaps been saying and getting flak for it for 3 years.

The internet has made a massive error and allowed China to prosper. If it was a legal requirement to specify COO data on every product sold online on the listing/marketing data then everyone would factor that and China would lose out. Online retailers would be forced to diversify their procurement and they would make more opportunities for lesser known countries.

The basis of this is I always check where clothes are made before buying and I never buy made in China. Must be plenty of people doing this in stores but the chance never arises via online shopping. To me that's a massive error.

 

[paulears]

I have no issues whatsoever buying from China, as long as the goods I want can be found somewhere else at the same price and quality level. I have a few Chinese suppliers who get one chance and don't make the cut for future orders, but equally I have become very friendly with quite a few suppliers and the only real issue is distance and time delay. I don't like their Government very much, but it's theirs, not mine, so I don't let it influence what I buy. I've been shafted by people in the UK quite a few times.

In this day and age of racial issues, the word racism comes up often and most times I have trouble with it's use and the official dictionary meaning of the word - as in a hatred of. It's now OK to have a hatred of China apparently, and by association everyone who lives and works there. This is clearly stupid. If you have personal views, expertise your right to not buy from them.

The internet has not made an error. The USERS of the internet might have? Today a delivery of items arrived. I've sold half of them today in just a few hours. Why would I not have done this? Saying no to a product because of it's origin is just crazy if people want it!

 

[Ray272]

I have no issues whatsoever buying from China, as long as the goods I want can be found somewhere else at the same price and quality level. I have a few Chinese suppliers who get one chance and don't make the cut for future orders, but equally I have become very friendly with quite a few suppliers and the only real issue is distance and time delay. I don't like their Government very much, but it's theirs, not mine, so I don't let it influence what I buy. I've been shafted by people in the UK quite a few times.

In this day and age of racial issues, the word racism comes up often and most times I have trouble with it's use and the official dictionary meaning of the word - as in a hatred of. It's now OK to have a hatred of China apparently, and by association everyone who lives and works there. This is clearly stupid. If you have personal views, expertise your right to not buy from them.

The internet has not made an error. The USERS of the internet might have? Today a delivery of items arrived. I've sold half of them today in just a few hours. Why would I not have done this? Saying no to a product because of it's origin is just crazy if people want it!

I dislike Chinese products because China is a massive producer of fake branded goods so how can one ever know if an item is real. Another issue is the quality is never there for me compared to other places like Vietnam for trainers. I buy product from China too but I also buy from Korea, Russia and other countries. As a consumer I think it's important to know where something comes from and if it does not matter why do all products show a coo on label of goods. It's surely very important and retailers could then see if there customers were sensitive to such matters and it could help retain customers who would value that Info at point of purchase online.

 

[MOIC]

China's growth is mainly due to the greed of the West (& the East) in wanting cheap goods.

There were many other factors (relevant to UK, but also elsewhere) which owed the decline of the manufacturing industry in those countries due to lack of investment, whether in machinery, R+D or a skilled workforce.

This year China has to contend with the 'mismanagement' of COVID-19, Xinjiang & Hong Kong, which have only surfaced this year.

Businesses can look elsewhere for production, including nearby countries such as Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Myanmar . . . . . .

What they will not now (and probably won't care) is that the majority of these factories that have opened within the past 5 years, are either China owned, China managed or have a vast reliance of China money and certainly a reliance on China components.

There is always going to be an argument of morals v price v a product being commercial.

Will people change completely and only buy from sustainable sources and ethically correct factories?

A few might.

These same people will 'happily' turn a blind eye to other world issues.

As I mentioned on another post, it will be an interesting 2-3 years ahead.

 

[MOIC]

I dislike Chinese products because China is a massive producer of fake branded goods so how can one ever know if an item is real.

Simple solution.

Don't buy fakes.

The factories will close.

China now is not what China was 10 years ago.

 

[Ray272]

China's growth is mainly due to the greed of the West (& the East) in wanting cheap goods.

There were many other factors (relevant to UK, but also elsewhere) which owed the decline of the manufacturing industry in those countries due to lack of investment, whether in machinery, R+D or a skilled workforce.

This year China has to contend with the 'mismanagement' of COVID-19, Xinjiang & Hong Kong, which have only surfaced this year.

Businesses can look elsewhere for production, including nearby countries such as Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Myanmar . . . . . .

What they will not now (and probably won't care) is that the majority of these factories that have opened within the past 5 years, are either China owned, China managed or have a vast reliance of China money and certainly a reliance on China components.

There is always going to be an argument of morals v price v a product being commercial.

Will people change completely and only buy from sustainable sources and ethically correct factories?

A few might.

These same people will 'happily' turn a blind eye to other world issues.

As I mentioned on another post, it will be an interesting 2-3 years ahead.

Agree with that yes, lot of Chinese opening up elsewhere. So are you going to ride it out or find some options and diversify?

 

[Ray272]

Simple solution.

Don't buy fakes.

The factories will close.

China now is not what China was 10 years ago.

Another good solution is to relocate all mnfr out of China. Like Adidas. So the Adidas I see coming from China are clearly risky. Lazada has a shipping from Indicator on its point of purchase. Nice feature

 

[MOIC]

Agree with that yes, lot of Chinese opening up elsewhere. So are you going to ride it out or find some options and diversify?

It's ultimately up to the customers I supply.

Currently none have asked me to source elsewhere and that includes major brands that are involved in 'ethically sourced and sustainable' products.

Go figure.

I am looking at alternate countries in case they start to want to move things out of China.

Will they be happy with China backed factories?

Not sure.

 

[MOIC]

Another good solution is to relocate all mnfr out of China.

All? Wish you luck!

Lazada has a shipping from Indicator on its point of purchase. Nice feature

Lazada - Another China owned business!!

You won't escape them, no matter how hard you try!

 

[Ray272]

It's ultimately up to the customers I supply.

Currently none have asked me to source elsewhere and that includes major brands that are involved in 'ethically sourced and sustainable' products.

Go figure.

I am looking at alternate countries in case they start to want to move things out of China.

Will they be happy with China backed factories?

Not sure.

So what you handling all the ISO9000 stuff. Ethical sourcing. Site visits from marks and sparks type stuff?

I think a Chinese led biz in another country is smart if they have the expertise then what's the problem. Actually I'd say that's a bonus and a good trade off. Old hand new location. Could be right up your street that Ron.

 

[Ray272]

All? Wish you luck!




Lazada - Another China owned business!!

You won't escape them, no matter how hard you try!

Let's see how it unfolds over the next 24 months.

 

[MOIC]

Many large businesses prefer to work with Hong Kong companies, as (they think) this distances themselves from China 'and all it's ills".

How wrong they can be.

What price for morals?

That's (sadly) the ultimate question.

 

[Maple Sourcing]

China can make cheap products, but at same time, China can make expensive products. It depends on customers' needs. All my clients ask me to source good quality products, so, we stay away from the cheap factories and do solid quality inspections.

It's possible to buy very good products from China, depending on how much you want to pay on products themselves and quality control.

 

[QPLAST]

I have a manufacturing company in India, so it might sound I am supporting India but the reality is:

China grew economically very big because they delivered cheaper products with compared to any other country in the world. In this process many companies shut thier factory across the world because they could not compete China. Most of the UK manufacturers either shut or shifted elsewhere for the same reason.

You can find many article about several incidents, where Chinese manufacturers did not follow copy rights or did not took care of human rights. During Covid 19, some of the US and japanese companies are trying to move out of china for their own reasons.

Atleast now, people are looking for alternative to China even with an additional cost.

There will always be few good company in China and some products only available in China mainly because of the raw material being available in China .

Every customer is different, for some it's economic, for some it's moral and ethics. For some its more on charity.

With respect to furniture, India does produce a lot of furniture both modern and traditional hand made design.

You can always explore the options you have and decide based on what you can sell.

Good luck
Deepak

 

[Kevin Joseph]

There is the obvious benefit of Indian suppliers/manufacturers being well-versed in English as opposed to their Chinese counterparts but there are other considerations too.

In my honest opinion, your chances of falling victim to any of the suppliers in either of those countries are equal, although India does become a safer alternative since verifying your supplier becomes much easier.

China tends to do much better when it comes to modern furniture styles that are sleek & edgy since these furniture pieces can easily be manufactured with machines & they're able to sell high-quality stuff & low cost but when it comes to furniture that requires hand carving or a specific theme, like Industrial furniture/rustic furniture, India is the place to go but you have to be extremely careful about the suppliers that you enlist. My colleague who started her furniture store received two faulty shipments from different suppliers in India before she came across the right one

 

[BreezSteez]

The top ten exporting countries for furniture (by value) have been reported as follows
1. China (five times the value of number 2 and more than the other 9 combined!)
2. Germany
3. Italy
4. Poland
5. USA
6. Mexico
7. Vietnam
8. Canada
9. Czech Republic
10. Netherlands

At first, I was thinking it could be worthwhile to build relationships with India. Then I came across some good comments dissuading that notion. As CHUKTC stated above, China is way in the lead when it comes to furniture and India isn't even on the list. @MapleSourcing also pointed this fact out about India.

OP posed a great question!

 

[Larry Fong]

China is still the preferable source of furniture. Don't let politics to crowd your business decision. In term of product quality and value to money, China is still a reliable source. Of course, in order to guard against the product quality, you should have a reliable quality inspection company as your business partner.

 

[QPLAST]

As the corona effect is diminishing, thing have started to settle. I agree China is still preferred option in terms of economy and variety, one has to decide what they want on long term.

The global trade will be interesting for the next 5 year, there will be new opportunity for many new country/suppliers.