You're a fool if you stay IMHO.
There's a chance you could smooth things over but it ain't gonna last.
Focus on replacing them with decent customers
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Thanks, maybe someone will come by your way.
Its good business sometimes to say 'no'
You will develop a sense for when to take the hit and change what you do from a fair criticism, and when to walk form unreasonable and aggressive (controlling) demands.
A fool holds onto destructive situations and won't let go. But I am not calling you a fool. I think you've stumbled across people who are ruthless in their demands and sometimes that just happens. You have nothing to prove to them and everything to live for. I am sure your husband and baby want a happy person around the house with them.
Its good business sometimes to say 'no'
You will develop a sense for when to take the hit and change what you do from a fair criticism, and when to walk form unreasonable and aggressive (controlling) demands.
A fool holds onto destructive situations and won't let go. But I am not calling you a fool. I think you've stumbled across people who are ruthless in their demands and sometimes that just happens. You have nothing to prove to them and everything to live for. I am sure your husband and baby want a happy person around the house with them.
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You are on the edge. Your thread has touched everyone and we are on your side.
Make a steady decision, a good plan and carry it without getting too hysterical. You will have opposition but just be prepared that it will happen. Make a list in your head of the things they might say and tick them off if they occur. That way nothing is a shock and you'll handle it in your stride.
Get the most valuable stuff first so you can cut your losses and not go back into the building if things turn unpleasant and don't take anything that isn't yours.
Focus - your ultimate goal is a happy life and you will find other clients. Offices gotta be cleaned.
Make a steady decision, a good plan and carry it without getting too hysterical. You will have opposition but just be prepared that it will happen. Make a list in your head of the things they might say and tick them off if they occur. That way nothing is a shock and you'll handle it in your stride.
Get the most valuable stuff first so you can cut your losses and not go back into the building if things turn unpleasant and don't take anything that isn't yours.
Focus - your ultimate goal is a happy life and you will find other clients. Offices gotta be cleaned.
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Does it say anything else about termination of the contract.
How can they terminate, for example. Is there anything about termination with notice. Or is the contract for a fixed period of time, so the contract will last for 1 year and may be renewed at the end?
There is a difference between cancelling a contract and terminating it.
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Do they owe you any money? You may not get it.
Have they paid you in advance for any services you have not supplied (I doubt that there would be) that they could sue you for?
I doubt there will be anything in it for them to sue you over. I am sure it is a straight money decision and they will not pursue unless there is a lot in it for them.
But take time to review your terms as you don't want any loopholes in the future.
Have they paid you in advance for any services you have not supplied (I doubt that there would be) that they could sue you for?
I doubt there will be anything in it for them to sue you over. I am sure it is a straight money decision and they will not pursue unless there is a lot in it for them.
But take time to review your terms as you don't want any loopholes in the future.
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benion
- Original Poster
- #55
They can terminate the contract with one months notice. The only thing I have about termination is I can do it if I think the client is going bust.
They even had the cheek to say today why should they pay me for the work I have done if it is not good enough.
The reality is most contract firms dump a cleaner on a site never to see them again. Most of my cleaners never even met their area managers in their last role and a lot of contractors just put a supervisor in place to deliver stock once a month.
If they think they can find a better firm then good luck to them....but I suspect they are in for a very rude awakening!
They even had the cheek to say today why should they pay me for the work I have done if it is not good enough.
The reality is most contract firms dump a cleaner on a site never to see them again. Most of my cleaners never even met their area managers in their last role and a lot of contractors just put a supervisor in place to deliver stock once a month.
If they think they can find a better firm then good luck to them....but I suspect they are in for a very rude awakening!
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A contract has to be fair to ALL parties involved if it says one party can give a months notice, then the same would apply for both parties, otherwise the contract could be deemed uan unfair contract and not enforcerable.
As has been said here, relax don't do anything rash that could expose you to legal action by them. If you are able to cancel the contract if you THINK the company may be going bust then you have your out, as they would have to prove to the court what you thought
you could argue you believed they were going bust because they were refusing to increase payments. Has a payment been late? That alone is reason enough to believe a company has cash flow issues (possibly goign bust).
Personally I would tell them that the contract has changed that it needs to be renegotiated, and if they are not prepared to alter the terms of the contract when such a material change in the requirements has occurred then you have no option other than to cancel the agreement with immediate effect..
As has been said here, relax don't do anything rash that could expose you to legal action by them. If you are able to cancel the contract if you THINK the company may be going bust then you have your out, as they would have to prove to the court what you thought
you could argue you believed they were going bust because they were refusing to increase payments. Has a payment been late? That alone is reason enough to believe a company has cash flow issues (possibly goign bust). Personally I would tell them that the contract has changed that it needs to be renegotiated, and if they are not prepared to alter the terms of the contract when such a material change in the requirements has occurred then you have no option other than to cancel the agreement with immediate effect..
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benion
- Original Poster
- #59
I have given them 1 months notice and phoned a friend who works for a rival firm and explained the situation and I think they are trying for the contract now. Although I have given them a month I have requested the sooner I can leave the better. I have also told them I am working to rule and not putting in one minutes unpaid overtime
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So let's get this straight.... initially you needed 2 hours to do the cleaning.
The number of staff has trebled.
They have given you 3 hours to do the cleaning.
You claim that you need 9 hours.
I believe that you need 6 hours, otherwise you underestimated initially or your current cleaners really are not as competent.
If you needed 2 hours, now have 3, but require 6, then what you actually need to do is to double the price of your contract and double the number of cleaners on the job to retain 3 hours.
That isn't the only issue however as you believe that you need 9 hours. The company will, quite rightfully, question why it is that you feel that you need to multiply the originally quoted number of hours by a factor of 4.5 when the size of the building has remained the same and the number of their employees has only increased by a factor of three.
If you can't do the job in three hours at double the price with double the number of cleaners then you initially estimated incorrectly.
If you can do the job in three hours with twice the number of cleaners and double the price then you priced the job correctly and need to put it to them that the job is now underpriced and then walk when they inevitably refuse to pay your new price.
What will subsequently happen is that they will employ some other cleaning firm who will underprice the job and the circle will begin again for them. What you need to do is embark on the very difficult task of finding a new contract at a more favourable price against the backdrop of a market place full of people who will, just like you did to win the contract, enter at a stupidly low price and win the contract over those who price at a level required to sustain their business.
That's just business these days.
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benion
- Original Poster
- #62
I cannot tell you the sense of relief I feel. My husband actually said I spend 85% of my entire time on this contract and 15% on all my other contracts combined.
I want to thank everyone for their advice and support. I am rjust so happy it is over. As someone said I may have been able to smooth things over for a few weeks but then it would have all started up again.
It is almost like they thought because they were paying me they had literally bought my soul. I can guarantee they will not find another contractor who bends over backwards for them and they will regret their behaviour.
I just think they thought I was quite a soft person and a bit of a push over which is true to an extent but there comes a point which I cannot be pushed further.
I want to thank everyone for their advice and support. I am rjust so happy it is over. As someone said I may have been able to smooth things over for a few weeks but then it would have all started up again.
It is almost like they thought because they were paying me they had literally bought my soul. I can guarantee they will not find another contractor who bends over backwards for them and they will regret their behaviour.
I just think they thought I was quite a soft person and a bit of a push over which is true to an extent but there comes a point which I cannot be pushed further.
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Well done for getting out of such a horrible situation. Clearly their attitude towards you and your staff made it impossible for you to stay there and fulfill your contract with them, keep any text messages from resigning staff just in case there's any come back and don't let them bully you any more.
Sometimes when you're running your own business it's easy to think that you have to be grateful to your customers for giving you business and that putting up with a pile of s**t is a necessary part of what you are trying to do. It's NOT - you don't have to be grateful to your customers, if they are a***holes, you don't need them.
Hope your next contracts are much nicer to you!
Sometimes when you're running your own business it's easy to think that you have to be grateful to your customers for giving you business and that putting up with a pile of s**t is a necessary part of what you are trying to do. It's NOT - you don't have to be grateful to your customers, if they are a***holes, you don't need them.
Hope your next contracts are much nicer to you!
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benion
- Original Poster
- #64
I am not going to name the rival firm who I have given the heads up on this one but I know for a fact the guy will just stick a cleaner in there and then never visit the site again.
Part of the reason I have told them to chase the contract is the sooner I am out of there...the better.
Part of it is I know they will realise what a mistake they have made treating me like sh*t when this new guy comes along.
Part of the reason I have told them to chase the contract is the sooner I am out of there...the better.
Part of it is I know they will realise what a mistake they have made treating me like sh*t when this new guy comes along.
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I can't help wondering whether if you just walked out there would be much they could do apart from withholding payment. I would not bank on getting paid for what you do in the notice period anyway as I am sure they will quibble.
I take it there is no penalty in the contract for if you stop suddenly.
I hope that it all falls out quickly for you. I am sure they took advantage of your desire to serve them well and have made your life a misery.
I take it there is no penalty in the contract for if you stop suddenly.
I hope that it all falls out quickly for you. I am sure they took advantage of your desire to serve them well and have made your life a misery.
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benion
- Original Poster
- #68
You are such a lovely person Christine and have been really supportive. If they do not pay me I will take them to court-which will be a bit weird considering they are solicitors.
I will also be withdrawing a personal injury claim I have with them following a serious accident-I am taking my business elsewhere.
Last week a solicitor gave me a rollocking as when I was changing a bin bag my head was pointing towards a computer screen even though I was not reading it. She said I had no right to read confidential information. This is even though I do not understand any of the legal jargon on all their letters and to be honest I am not that interested if Joe Bloggs ends up with whiplash.
I have had problems with cleaners there feeling they are being spoken to like dirt.
Just cannot wait until my last day...
I will also be withdrawing a personal injury claim I have with them following a serious accident-I am taking my business elsewhere.
Last week a solicitor gave me a rollocking as when I was changing a bin bag my head was pointing towards a computer screen even though I was not reading it. She said I had no right to read confidential information. This is even though I do not understand any of the legal jargon on all their letters and to be honest I am not that interested if Joe Bloggs ends up with whiplash.
I have had problems with cleaners there feeling they are being spoken to like dirt.
Just cannot wait until my last day...
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It is good to hear that you are pulling out. Such customers are best cancelled. You can give proper attention to your business.
On the matter of you using them for a personal claim, before you pull out of that make sure that you have not signed anything. There have been cases of people being sued for hundreds of pounds by no win no fee solicitors because they stopped the claim. Check you will not become liable for their costs so far.
If you are likely to become liable, then keep them on. What have you got to loose? It would certainly make them hesitate to do anything to you for "breach of contract" should they believe that you are somehow at fault for terminating the contract.
On the matter of you using them for a personal claim, before you pull out of that make sure that you have not signed anything. There have been cases of people being sued for hundreds of pounds by no win no fee solicitors because they stopped the claim. Check you will not become liable for their costs so far.
If you are likely to become liable, then keep them on. What have you got to loose? It would certainly make them hesitate to do anything to you for "breach of contract" should they believe that you are somehow at fault for terminating the contract.
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Well done for making the correct decision but now go to the legal book store and get a really good book on contract law. You'll then find that it is they, the solicitors who are in breach of contract. You would probably also have redress under some form of working conditions legislation, but this could also be used against you by an employee of yours being abused by the client.
It is serious and I'd potentially think about sending them up the legal garden path with a claim.
You need some better contracts which include automatic shifts for increased workload under specified conditions.
To lighten the mood, I had a client go ape the other day, with all manner of vitriol by email and threats left, right and centre. What for you may ask ? Well, for the audacity to bring to an end a promotion which had seen them benefit for the last three months.
Some folk are just nuts, some are ********s and some are not worth worrying about. Get out of there and stuff them.
It is serious and I'd potentially think about sending them up the legal garden path with a claim.
You need some better contracts which include automatic shifts for increased workload under specified conditions.
To lighten the mood, I had a client go ape the other day, with all manner of vitriol by email and threats left, right and centre. What for you may ask ? Well, for the audacity to bring to an end a promotion which had seen them benefit for the last three months.
Some folk are just nuts, some are ********s and some are not worth worrying about. Get out of there and stuff them.
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Well done for getting out of this.
Over the years there have been several threads on UKBF where a new start up company gets lumbered with a difficult client and feels trapped by contracts, competition and just sheer commercial guilt but honestly you are better off without these types of clients and they hurt you and your company in so many ways It's difficult to feel confident about your business and feel you are offering value for money and great service when you have a whinge-bag in your earhole 5 days a week
Thing to do now while things are still fresh in your mind, is to think about where the warning signals came from and what you will do with another client if the same happens in future.
Also think about how you quoted for the work initially, how you drew up contracts and what you can do to work differently in the future.
Good luck and heres to a happy and less stressful few weeks
Over the years there have been several threads on UKBF where a new start up company gets lumbered with a difficult client and feels trapped by contracts, competition and just sheer commercial guilt but honestly you are better off without these types of clients and they hurt you and your company in so many ways
It's difficult to feel confident about your business and feel you are offering value for money and great service when you have a whinge-bag in your earhole 5 days a week Thing to do now while things are still fresh in your mind, is to think about where the warning signals came from and what you will do with another client if the same happens in future.
Also think about how you quoted for the work initially, how you drew up contracts and what you can do to work differently in the future.
Good luck and heres to a happy and less stressful few weeks
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benion
- Original Poster
- #74
Makes me wonder if some of this is because they know I am a young start up and therefore a bit naive plus really keen to prove myself.
The head solicitors husband runs a recruitment agency and the head solicitor has previously said I should use his business to recruit my cleaners. WTF?
I am telling them if he can headhunt a cleaner to do that place in 3 hours he really is as smart as what he believes himself to be.
The head solicitors husband runs a recruitment agency and the head solicitor has previously said I should use his business to recruit my cleaners. WTF?
I am telling them if he can headhunt a cleaner to do that place in 3 hours he really is as smart as what he believes himself to be.
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What I mean is loads of your posts give a bit of an insight into the overall picture ... they are solicitors... links with recruitment agency touting for your recruitment work ... taking advantage of you not building termination or pricing review into the contract as you expand... history of others leaving ... etc
It just all paints a picture really that it was never going to be a very enjoyable or profitable contract
It just all paints a picture really that it was never going to be a very enjoyable or profitable contract
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