How to get an invention off the ground with no money

New-Horizon

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May 12, 2017
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Hi. I have a couple of inventions and I would like to get them prototyped. I emailed a company that can help me with patents but they need a lot of money I don't have at the moment. I believe in my ideas but I have no clue on how to get to the next step. How can I seek advice without fear someone might steal the idea?. I have been sitting on the ideas for almost 2 years because of fear of not knowing were to begin. Can a NDA help?.. How can I get a prototype done or how can I get into licensing the idea or finance ?
Any help and advice is much appreciated.
 

paulears

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Borrow the money to patent it from friends or family who believe in you. Let's face it - if you need to get somebody else to prototype it then they need wrapping in security, and NDAs need legally preparing. You can of course crowd fund - this seems very popular nowadays. However - you cannot patent an idea. The patent has to have tangible patentable content. You mention prototypes. Do you have the plans, specs and documents necessary to do this? If you have these, then you need to protect it, and a patent could be the answer - frankly we don't know, but of course you cannot tell us. Can you give a brief description so we can attempt decent advice - I'm just thinking like you have developed a new method of brewing beer that doesn't require the time traditional taken and just needs gluten free hops. That's obviously rubbish - but would let any brewers perhaps advise you.
 
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D

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Forget about patents ...for now.
Search through Google patents for anything similar to your own ideas.
https://www.google.co.uk/?tbm=pts&gws_rd=ssl

If you do not find anything too similar, make a working prototype,
do it yourself preferably, cheaper and less risky than trusting a
company.

Take your working model, ideas and drawings along for a free chat with a Patent clinic in a town nearest to you.

http://www.cipa.org.uk/need-advice/ip-clinics/

The patent agent will give you a lot of help with the potential of your ideas.

What he or she tells you, will influence what your next actions will be.
Could be --- Throw it all in the bin and start working on something else,
or, as Paulears above, then it will need a decent working model, some working cash, and then back to the patent advice clinic.


.
 
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Clinton

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    How to get an invention off the ground with no money
    Multiple options:
    1. Steal the money
    2. Get the money from somewhere else
    3. Pray

    But most of all, recognise that you shouldn't get precious about NDAs because the chances are your idea is close to worthless. Contrary to popular belief, it's not the idea that has value, it's what comes after the idea - the capital, skill and sweat to convert the idea to profit.

    I have, on the average day, a dozen ideas before breakfast.
     
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    You have had the 1% inspiration - turning that idea into reality is the 99% perspiration.

    Dyson saw an industrial dust extractor that used centrifugal separation. It took about ten years of hard work and countless prototypes to 'invent' a portable version of a very old principle.

    English inventor and photographer Eadweard Muybridge spent seven years turning 12 individual images of a horse galloping taken in 1872, into a moving image. He invented motion photography - the movies!

    As @Clinton said, one has hundreds of ideas. You have only invented something, when the idea has matured into a product. Siemens realised that sound could move a ribbon held in a magnetic field and that movement created a tiny electrical current that was an analogy of the original sound. He even measured that current and gave up with less than a millivolt. Too small, he assumed, to be of any practical value.

    He had thought of the ribbon microphone, but he did not invent the ribbon microphone, because he didn't do anything with that thought. That honour fell to RCA-Victor engineer Harry Olson in 1923, but it took him nine years to turn that idea into a working ribbon microphone and into a patent, granted in 1932.

    And then we come to the knotty problem of the market - does anybody actually want this damn thing?

    There had been scores of attempts at the creation of the synthesizer, the first 'real' one being the 'Dynamophone' created by Thaddius Cahill in 1896. Unfortunately, it weighed seven tons, so not very portable! It also needed an unbelievable 670 kilowatts of power to make it work!

    In 1937, German engineer Harald Bode created a sort of synthesizer called the Warbo Formant Organ and in the 1930s, Lawrence Hammond (of Hammond organs and clocks fame) used his considerable wealth to create the very first true polyphonic synthesizer, which he called the Novachord. From 1939 to 1942, just 1,000 were produced and for want of demand, production stopped. One or two were used in the movies for horror films, but that was about all.

    Their invention, the synthesizer, did not have a market until musical tastes changed. None of those people actually earned a dime out of their creations, although, today we regard the synthesizer as being one of the most important musical instruments ever created.

    It was only when, in 1963, engineer Robert Moog built one of those crazy and unwanted instruments, using those newfangled things called transistors and they became portable, that the idea of the 'synth' took off.

    But to do so, it had to be used in that other new invention, the combination of up-tempo country & western music with the 4:4 beat of the blues. We called it rock-n-roll.
     
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    New-Horizon

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    Thank you guys.
    @Clinton thanks I will keep praying.
    @paulears I have decided to save up and hopefully seek more advice from my working sector because its related to the idea.
    @dave archer thank you for the links I will do a more thorough investigation. I did have a patent clinic approve and wanted some money to start the patenting application process.
    @The Byre. I Will keep on going.
     
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    billmccallum1957

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    An NDA is worthless to you, its only useful if you can enforce it, which means taking legal action, which costs money, that you don't have.

    So the basic questions are

    is it something that can be made or used?
    is it new?
    is it inventive - not just a simple modification to something that already exists?
     
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    Steve0077

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    Don't put your faith in NDAs and also don't let anybody tell you "you're idea is likely to be worthless as ideas mean nothing". It may or may not be worthless but you won't know unless you try.

    Yes the work and capital are equally important but without the idea to build on in the first place what comes after is also worthless. Even when James Dyson was broke he made sure that he kept spending on renewing the patent on his "idea". Was rather useful to him in the long run, especially when Hoover tried to pinch it off him.

    Patents are more expensive than trademarks so firstly do a thorough check on what is already out there within the realm that your idea exists. And it really would be handy to speak to somebody within this particular sphere without giving your idea away if that is possible. Also, look online for IP attorneys who offer free consultations.
     
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    Chris Ashdown

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    You don't need a prototype to file a patent application but you do need sketches of it if possible or a explanation of how it works

    It must be innovative (Sony could not patent there Walkman as it was not innovative it was just a smaller tape recorder which was already in existence)

    Anyone can copy a patented item for free if they have the money to fight it in court, for instance if a multi million pound company copied your patent could you afford to go to the high court to fight them

    Find someone with a 3D Printer and make a model of your idea and use that to get someone to make it under licence for you and just pay you a licence fee
     
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    Tim Grindley

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    I have an idea for a wind power system which would generate electrical power cheaper than coal does.

    The problems of the existing wind turbines are principally that they have huge maintenanice costs. They also have sound problems of infra sound causing trouble to households at a long distance and siting problems as the blades interfear with radars for airtraffic control.

    My idea would get over these things and be very very cheap both to build and more importantly to run.

    I am a plumber by trade and 100% out of my depth with this.

    What do I do next? I need both money and experteese.
     
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    The problems of the existing wind turbines are principally that they have huge maintenanice costs. They also have sound problems of infra sound causing trouble to households at a long distance and siting problems as the blades interfear with radars for airtraffic control.
    I have written several economics papers and done site feasibility studies on wind power, both from an engineering and from an economic standpoint.

    Wind power's biggest problems are not maintenance, radar interference or infrasound, though these problems do not help, but economic. The intermittent nature of wind power is it's biggest enemy, as it requires constant and running back-up from a base load generator (known as a spinning reserve) to overcome this intermittence.

    If you wish to contact me, feel free to do so. I am in contact with manufacturers, investors in wind power sites, politicians and communities, both for and against wind power, some of which would be happy to invest. I also own a possible test site.

    If your ideas and/or inventions work, money is really no object or problem (within reason!)
     
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    Chris Ashdown

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    Sea power would be better with known tides every day of the year and in some places a massive current, off Great Yarmouth peaking at 6 knots for about two hours and very little slack tide. also as the tide mover around the coast this negates the slack times
    West country tides are massive and offer far greater power with 40 foot tide range
     
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    Tim Grindley

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    The difficulty is that beyond money, which I would need, I need experteese more.

    That would be a little engineering in the way of a professional assesment of the idea and so that the results don't come from me, a plumber, but have the authority required and more improtantly the understanding of what to do next.

    How do you take the idea for a light bulb and make it a whole industry? A lot out of my depth.
     
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    Tim Grindley

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    [I am not allowed to post links] w.engadget.c [I am not allowed to post links] om/2016/11/05/six-innovative-wind-turbine-designs/

    Mine is better than any of these (I think). I don't really know if there is any way I can definately rule out that my idea has been tried before without speaking to some sort of industry expert.
     
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    Tim Grindley

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    Update;

    I have spoken with a lecturer in mechanical engineering who seems to specialise in wind power. He had not seen a similar system. He suggested that I build a model to test the effectiveness of the device.

    I have built a very rudimentary portotype. It is made of stuff I had in my shed including an old wall tile adhesive bucket for the turbine housing. Extremely advance engineering it is not.

    After 5 weekends of no wind above 8mph (I am working away at the moment) the frustration was enough for me to strap it to the roof of my van and get my wife to look at it to se the results, which were;

    At 22mph it starts to turn and at 35mph it is spinning faster than she could count.

    Not exactly a full engineering report but.....

    This is without any load other than the friction of the mechanics, it catches a bit as it goes around.

    There is little point in doing a full, proper, report due to the low build quality and that the system would only ever make sense at a sacle bigger than the present wind turbines. It's advantage is that it does not suffer more problems as it gets bigger but does get far more cost efficent.

    The next stage is, I think, to get a computer model simulation done by some sort of expert, I am waiting for a reply from the lecturer although I think it might be time to pay for it, which will be able to show if, in theory, it would be ecconomical at a large scale.

    If there is anybody out there who has any clue about these things please tell me what to do as it is all way over my head.
     
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    Mr D

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    Besides computer simulations (which will need the right data entered) it may be worth doing a scale model with as close to the preferred materials as possible. For display, maybe for some data? If ever presenting to investors or people in the industry you need your data to be good.
    Though display could be a card model I'm guessing anything to collect data or show proof item works will be more robust.

    Good that you could build something from materials to hand.

    Large wind turbines have a few problems, stresses of bigger blades, speed of blades etc - worth checking you can avoid adding to the problems, maybe even reduce some if your design suits that. There are times bigger isn't always better, check whether a certain size is more cost effective overall.
     
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    D

    Deleted member 226268



    The next stage is, I think, to get a computer model simulation done by some sort of expert, I am waiting for a reply from the lecturer although I think it might be time to pay for it, which will be able to show if, in theory, it would be ecconomical at a large scale.

    If there is anybody out there who has any clue about these things please tell me what to do as it is all way over my head.


    Contact the secretary at Wessex Round Table of Inventors

    https://www.wrti.org.uk/contact

    Join the society.

    They are based in the Spark building of Southampton Solent University.
    The WRTI have access to the university manufacturing and computer design departments.
    The university fibreglass molding and boat hull construction facilities would be useful to you for this project.

    There is also a huge amount of help for inventors from the WRTI.

    The WRTI are currently working on wind, wave and tidal power generation projects.

    .
     
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    Tim Grindley

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    May 24, 2017
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    Mr D,

    Thanks for your answer.

    My design eliminates the issues of stresses in the blades causing cracking and also aims to make as much of the maintainance as easy and cherap as possible. As indeed the build cost.

    The down side, as I see it, is that I think the present wind turbines are extremely beautiful. Mine is more of a big ugly box. I might be able to add some surrounding facia sort of wind directing vanes that will help but....
     
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    Tim Grindley

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    Hopefully the design will;

    1, Be reasonably cheap to build.

    2, Be very cheap to mainatain.

    3, Not stop in high winds.

    4, Work to some extent in low winds.

    5, Supply lots of power if built in the right place and at the correct large scale.

    6, Not have the issues with people complaining about the "womp, womp, womp" sound of the blades passing the supporting pole.

    7, Not interfear with air traffic control radars.

    8, AT some point get a nice paint job or something that makes them not look ugly....ummmmm...
     
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    Tim Grindley

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    Contact the secretary at Wessex Round Table of Inventors

    https://www.wrti.org.uk/contact

    Join the society.

    They are based in the Spark building of Southampton Solent University.
    The WRTI have access to the university manufacturing and computer design departments.
    The university fibreglass molding and boat hull construction facilities would be useful to you for this project.

    There is also a huge amount of help for inventors from the WRTI.

    The WRTI are currently working on wind, wave and tidal power generation projects.

    .

    I have called them with no answer, do they work on Fridays?

    Email sent.

    Thanks.
     
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    I am assuming that you are housing the blades or multiple arrays of blades or other wind-driven mechanics in some kind of structure. If this is the case, there are many things you need to know, before you proceed any further -

    The idea of funnelling the wind to amplify the pressures across the blades is not new. As you have discovered, the net effect is to reduce the effectiveness at slow speeds, but increase it greatly at higher speeds. A modern wind generator should be running at 50% nominal output at 5m/s (18kph) and reach 90% at 10m/s. At 6m/s (22kph) it should reach 80% of nominal output.*

    The most important engineering challenge is to increase effectiveness at slower wind speeds, not at higher speeds. This is to ameliorate the intermittent nature of wind generation (it seldom blows a gale, but there is usually a gentle breeze!)

    Three more considerations make the use of a housing around a wind turbine undesirable - shadowing, safety and aesthetics.

    Aesthetics - you have said it yourself, ugly boxes on hillsides are not desirable and community pressures would never allow it. Do not underestimate this factor!

    Shadowing - one turbine all on its own is useless. There are certain base site costs, such as security, building access roads, maintenance and connection to the grid and these costs run to millions, so wind-farms are usually over ten towers to make them economically viable (or are just small private ventures that do not need these major investments and rely on older subsidy levels). Ten or more towers cause wind shadows and the towers behind others are considerably less effective. If a housing is placed around the blades, the shadowing effect is greatly increased as other towers interfere with flow across the blades of those down-wind.

    Safety - housings increase the overall wind-resistance and that means that far bulkier and more stable and therefore more expensive towers would have to be built.

    So, to sum up, the concept of funnelling the wind by means of a housing or other surfaces is not a new one and has been tested in thousands of different forms and using every conceivable shape and type of housing around the blades - and using blades of every shape and type - and has at every stage, proven itself to not be viable. Free standing blades in a field of similar wind towers already achieve 50% effectiveness at 5m/s and no 'housed' design has been able to achieve this. For any design to succeed, it has to out-perform that figure by a considerable margin.

    *Field tests by Prof. Vladimiro Miranda – Faculty of Engineering of the University of Porto-Portugal.
     
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    Tim Grindley

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    If the system is sufficently good at high wind speeds and suitable for very large construction then it may be useful in places such as the Herbredies with massive single installations which would supply each a percentage of the UK demand. Especially if the building is 500m high.

    In such places the days of less than 30mph wind are few. The lack of beauty appeal is the same for any large industrial building. Chemical plants still get built.

    I understand that there are drawbacks for this to become opperational but the potential may be there for a system which makes electrical power cheaper than coal.
     
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    Scalloway

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    If the system is sufficently good at high wind speeds and suitable for very large construction then it may be useful in places such as the Herbredies with massive single installations which would supply each a percentage of the UK demand. Especially if the building is 500m high.

    In such places the days of less than 30mph wind are few. The lack of beauty appeal is the same for any large industrial building. Chemical plants still get built.

    I understand that there are drawbacks for this to become opperational but the potential may be there for a system which makes electrical power cheaper than coal.

    There is enough resistance in the remote parts of Scotland to ordinary aerogenerators, never mind such a monstrosity as that. There are no chemical plants in the Scottish Highlands and Islands. The oil and gas terminals in Orkney and Shetland are low level installations that are hard to see from a distance due the surrounding hills.
     
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    Mr D

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    If the system is sufficently good at high wind speeds and suitable for very large construction then it may be useful in places such as the Herbredies with massive single installations which would supply each a percentage of the UK demand. Especially if the building is 500m high.

    In such places the days of less than 30mph wind are few. The lack of beauty appeal is the same for any large industrial building. Chemical plants still get built.

    I understand that there are drawbacks for this to become opperational but the potential may be there for a system which makes electrical power cheaper than coal.

    While such a building might be nice the problems of building and maintaining tend to be higher in remote areas. Never mind the transport costs.

    Sea based wind turbines maybe?
     
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    I am a plumber by trade and 100% out of my depth with this.
    There are so many things about the legal, social, political, economic and engineering side of wind-power, that you just are not aware of.
    If the system is sufficently good at high wind speeds and suitable for very large construction then it may be useful in places such as the Herbredies with massive single installations which would supply each a percentage of the UK demand. Especially if the building is 500m high.
    In such places the days of less than 30mph wind are few. The lack of beauty appeal is the same for any large industrial building. Chemical plants still get built.
    • Chemical plants do not get built on the Outer Hebrides!
    • No council or government would even begin to contemplate a 500m high box structure in an area whose major industry is tourism.
    • Electricity MUST be mostly generated reasonably close to where it is consumed, so as to avoid line-loss (Jules law, Ohm's law, the laws of induction).
    • The Hebrides are not as windy as most assume - being out at sea is far, far windier (wind maps available from Anemos Gesellschaft für Umweltmeteorologie mbH, Bunsenstraße 8, 21365 Adendorf, Germany)
     
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    P.S. Your invention may easily have other applications, such as micro-off-grid power supplies, sailing boats, or wind-to-mechanical applications, such as off-grid water pumps. That last one is an industry that has grown ten-fold in the past 17 years, so could be well worth investigating!
     
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    Find a company to partner with who can provide support in the areas you need.

    We've been working with inventors for many years and find a flexible approach - filling in the missing gaps our partners are experiencing - is a great way to speed up development and provide help where it's actually needed, rather than where we think it might be required.

    I'd definitely say look for a partner you can establish a long working relationship with
     
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    Tim Grindley

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    May 24, 2017
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    Thanks Morgan,

    The project is at the stage of me building a hoped for 2kW unit about 7m high. The next few weeks should finnish it.

    Unfortunately it will be still built of poor quality materials and not look good and I am doing it without the benefit of extensive computer modeling or managing to get a reply from the lecturer I talked to. Apparently the real world is just a bit too scary for him.

    What partnering support do you offer?
     
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    Hi Tim,
    I don't think this is the place to promote our services, but we'd be happy to let you know the kind of support we offer via our website.
    Try looking for us online @ Morgan Innovation.

    And the best of luck with your prototype :)

    BTW @ admins.
    Hope I haven't overstepped the mark here. I don't know what the rules are on self promotion, but I've tried to be as conservative as possible :)
     
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    Tim Grindley

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    Hi Morgan,

    I think the admins here are fairly OK with discussing business and seeking it. I hope so in any case.

    I appreciate I may be being paranoid but I have encountered a lot of rip off artists feeding off the novice inventor. Whilst a brief glance at your site says to me that you are not obviously one of these the bad guys out there have made me very suspicious. So just to allay my fears please outline how you would be able to help.

    I have no real budget for the advancement of this project. I would like to spend £10k or so on computer modeling and then really start the process but I will have to go more slowly. Can you help with that?

    What basis do you normally work on between yourselves and your inventors? Your site shows an emphasis on medical innovations. I am much more basic than that is this your area?

    Thanks

    Tim Grindley
     
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