Hosted Phone System Issues.....HELP

[uk26]

We contacted a well known VoIP Provider (No Names Given) for the below solution

Hosted PBX
50 User Extensions
50 Concurrent Calls
with all the standard features being available.

We was given our own Virtual Private Server by the provider preloaded with their Asterisk PBX Phone System.

We are paying £150 + VAT per month for this on a 3 year contract.

Server Spec (They specked this not me)
1 vCPU core at 2Ghz
500MB vRam
10GB Disk Space

I noticed the low memory and questioned this with the provider of which said this would be fine for 80 to 100 concurrent calls.

I then requested on the providers order form to upgrade the memory as i knew this was too low of which i signed and was then deemed as the contract.

they failed to upgrade the server and i sent reminders to them of which they have still ignored.

with just 5 concurrent calls the available memory drops down to 5.4Mb and audio starts getting bad.

we have now had to stop using this system and now gone back to the provider complaining and saying we want to end our contract as they have failed to provide us with a system which can deliver 50 users / concurrent calls.

They insist the spec of the server is enough to handle the number of users required (50) and that we cannot end our contract. We have been in it already for 2 years and complained more then once during the 2 years.

my view of this is they need to release me from contract which still has 12 months remaining.

What are your views of the spec of the hardware? do you think this should be able to handle 50 users / concurrent calls with 10GB Disk Space and 500 Mb Ram.

The actual PBX Software Vendor state they recommend a minimum of 2GB Ram and 15GB Disk space.

We server is also on a hold PBX release dating back to 2012 with no updates applied. We do not have full root access to the PBX

 

[TPTele]

You should have equipment that meets the manufacturers minimum requirements and the provider should be supplying this.

How many employees does the business have?

 

[uk26]

There was at one point before being forced to move away from the pbx around 35 phones connected to it.

I have all the evidence showing i complained over the last 2 years but they failed to upgrade the spec to at least the min spec set by the pbx vendor and enough to provide service for the number of users paid for. £150 per month should be enough to get us the required spec

 

[TPTele]

The size of your business (number of employees) will dictate potential options. How many employees does the business have?

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

Is it the server that is dropping the call quality or you internet connection?

From the description you give, I guess you are at the edge of tolerances, but it should work!

'We do not have full root access to the PBX' - why would you want this? If this makes a difference, build/host your own server. I use a VPS as follows:
10gb space,
128mb RAM,
256mb Burst RAM OpenVZ,
256mb Swap Xen,
250gb data transfer

AN have 5 concurrent calls with out issue. I believe I could probably stretch this to 10-20 calls, but would need to look at things like codecs. I pay less that 10% of your cost, but self manage, which is where the real cost comes in!

 

[uk26]

4. before you ask, why do i need 50 users with only 4 staff.

Reason, we was reselling the other seats to other businesses which the provider new and provided us with our own Multi-Tenant PBX hence why they gave us dedicated hardware.

I know you are going to say complain to Cisas of which they are a member of. Already Checked.

 

[uk26]

We have a 100MB BTNET Leased Line. we was not the only ones to complain.

Is it the server that is dropping the call quality or you internet connection?

From the description you give, I guess you are at the edge of tolerances, but it should work!

'We do not have full root access to the PBX' - why would you want this? If this makes a difference, build/host your own server. I use a VPS as follows:
10gb space,
128mb RAM,
256mb Burst RAM OpenVZ,
256mb Swap Xen,
250gb data transfer

AN have 5 concurrent calls with out issue. I believe I could probably stretch this to 10-20 calls, but would need to look at things like codecs. I pay less that 10% of your cost, but self manage, which is where the real cost comes in!

 

[cjd]

You're paying £150 per month for a cheap, underpowered PC and open source, free, Asterisk? And it doesn't work? And you've had it for 2 years?

You're kidding?

 

[uk26]

its not Open Source, its from a PBX Vender who has been around for years.

We did complain but they never did anything

The Provider leases a license from the PBX Vendor of which the provider hosts this on their Vmware box.

I have said to the provider that i have had enough now here is why i want to cancel, here is the evidence etc and they seem to be dragging this out..

 

[TPTele]

OK, 4 employees means that your provider has to treat you as a consumer and as such offer a regulated dispute resolution service via a 3rd party. This has to be part of their complaints handling policy. Failure to be part of a registered scheme carries fines of 10% of revenue!

The fact that you are 2 years into a 3 year contract would suggest that the service was not that bad but you will know the full history.

I would ask the PBX manufacture to comment on the server spec provided. You also need to check your broadband connection speed to ensure that it is up to the job since this is the most common cause for poor call quality. The rough rule of thumb is 0.1Mbps per simultaneous conversation so a minimum of 5Mbps up and down for your 50 users.

 

[cjd]

its not Open Source, its from a PBX Vender who has been around for years.

We did complain but they never did anything

Asterisk is open source, PCs cost a few hundred quid. A PBX on your premises is not a hosted PBX. You've put up with this for 2 years.

Something is very wrong here.

If you want to know how to do this properly, give us a call tomorrow - 020 7043 5555.

 

[uk26]

its not our end

 

[uk26]

The Hosted PBX is actually hosted by the provider NOT US. We have complained over the two years but got no where. Email evidence to back it up.

Asterisk is open source, PCs cost a few hundred quid. A PBX on your premises is not a hosted PBX. You've put up with this for 2 years.

Something is very wrong here.

If you want to know how to do this properly, give us a call tomorrow - 020 7043 5555.

 

[TPTele]

CJD is correct, something is very wrong.
Please feel free to give me a call on 033 33 58 33 33.

Stuart

 

[uk26]

More Detail
1. Ordered a 30 Day Trial service and noticed the low memory allocation etc
2. questioned this and was told 500MB memory will handle 80/100 concurrent calls.
3. The Sales Manger agreed to upgrade the memory etc and was listed on the contract that the VM Memory to be upgraded. this was then signed by Docusign.
4. chased and chased regarding the memory upgrade and never happened. people complaining that poor call quality, calls disconntecting and random call transfers failing.
5. again complained and nothing got done.
6. now that we have given up and moved to another PBX which does now do the job without issue we are wanting to cancel our contract and state we should be released from the contract due to the issues etc.

 

[cjd]

The Hosted PBX is actually hosted by the provider NOT US.

Ok, so it's Asterisk running on a virtual machine on their premises - not yours - which makes more sense.

The problems you were having could have been caused by many things - it's usually a local network issue; rarely a hosted problem unless the company you're using is clueless or having a bad time.
But you shouldn't have put up with it for two years and it's not down to you to diagnose problems in their equipment. If they aren't delivering the service you're paying for they are obviously in breach.

As for how many calls for 500Meg of RAM - I don't know, I suspect it depends on how the sevice is configured. I'll ask one of our engineers later.

 

[uk26]

The problem i see is the OS (Linux) used most of the available memory leaving just 5-10MB for Asterisk. On top of this they are not doing any updates / security patches. I'm not able to do this as do not have full access.

 

[cjd]

The engineer's answer isn't helpful - "it depends'. Two general comments though; '500meg is unlikely to be enough and you shouldn't run Asterisk on a virtual machine anyway'.

 

[uk26]

OK Many Thanks CJD

My account manger is having a meeting this morning to see if we can be released from the contract.

The engineer's answer isn't helpful - "it depends'. Two general comments though; '500meg is unlikely to be enough and you shouldn't run Asterisk on a virtual machine anyway'.

 

[uk26]

Well just got off from a phone call from the provider and they are refusing to cancel the contract.

We dispute that there is enough memory / CPU to allow 50 users / 50 concurrent calls. with just 11Mb available memory at system idle. with 6 extensions. they say with 11MB of ram, that this can still do 50 concurrent calls. however they can increase it when required.

I have sent them requests to upgrade it of which they have failed to do.

They want proof that 11MB of ram will not deliver 50 users / 50 concurrent calls.

I said they have not followed the recommendations of the software pbx provider of which they said its only a recommendation and its down to the them to ensure its configured with enough ram.

 

[cjd]

Rather than focusing on RAM, why not demonstrate to them that the quality of calls is poor - then it's down to them to sort out the problem? (Which may or may not be down to the RAM issue.)

 

[MikeJ]

The engineer's answer isn't helpful - "it depends'. .

Welcome to the world of IT support, everywhere.

 

[uk26]

I tried to use this for example but they refused it.

I go to BMW and request a car that can do 70MPH and pay £20,000 for it. what i don't want to be told is that if you actually want do 70MPH then i have to take the car back to BMW for the engine to be upgraded.

The point i was trying to make is the hardware spec i ordered should have been enough to deliver 50 users without further upgrade.

 

[nightmare99]

As per @cjd your conversation should go something like "The system does not work correctly, fix it or we will look at our legal options." you should not have to worry about the server specification or mangement.

 

[uk26]

We almost reached an agreement to a reduction in the remaining contract from £150 and £75 per month. However they will not remove the auto renew or accept a cancellation notice.

therefore i have sent the below email

Following on from the telephone conversation regarding the previous email below.

So you are agreeing to point 1 and but not part 2 or 3.

Section 2 and 3, regarding not automatically renewing is a major one for us. it’s not my concern if your system does not let you do this.

We will now have the above contract cancelled immediately without penalty / further payments due to ******* for breaching the above agreement and I will demonstrate why.

a) We requested the memory to be upgraded and this was not actioned by ***** despite it being a term set out on the order form and repeatedly being reminded by away of email notification of which evidence was supplied to you for this.

b) Due to this not being actioned put you in breach of contract section 15.1.2

Therefore I now request section 15.1 and subsection 15.1.2 of the master terms and conditions be actioned without further delay.

This now officially concludes the above contract to end as of 29/04/2015 between the parties to the agreement.

15. TERMINATION
15.1. Without prejudice to any other rights or remedies which the parties may have, either party may terminate the Contract without liability to the other immediately on giving notice to the other if:

15.1.2. the other party commits a material breach of any of the terms of the Contract and (if such a breach is remediable) fails to remedy that breach within 30 days of that party being notified in writing of the breach;

 

[iKam]

Sorry to hear about your problems. However @cjd 's company Voipfone is one I highly recommend. Support is second to none even when it's not even their fault they still go the extra mile. Not forgetting the actual phone service which is also top!

 

[hussainsheikh]

Let me know if you need help setting up your own internal PBX phone system to have full control over.

 

[goldleafconsultancy]

Are you running any GUI front end, such as FreePBX?