Holiday Pay Entitlement

[dreyfuss]

Hi, new here so hello everybody.
I work for a medium sized construction firm who employs a lot of people directly 'on the books'. It is stated in their contracts that they are given an entitlement of 20 days unpaid holiday, none at all paid. This is based on working a 38 hour week. Other people employed do receive holiday pay as per the 28 day minimum allowance.
After looking around the internet they can see they should be getting 28 days minimum. Is there any way the Directors can get around this and only offer unpaid leave?

Thanks in advance for any help

Dreyfuss

 

[Richie N]

Sounds very odd to me. What does it say on your contract?

 

[dreyfuss]

My contract itself is fine i think. It states 28 days paid holiday. It is others lower down in the company which from glancing at one of theirs today stated under holiday pay that they are entitled to 20 days unpaid holiday. Worded like that if i remember correctly. It then goes on to say the holiday year runs from 1st January.
People that have already questioned this and wanted paid holidays had to take a drop in their hourly rate to enable them to get paid holidays.
Seemed strange to me and i have never worked anywhere before where contracts have said this.
Came on here to ask as i was searching the internet and google kept bringing these forums up. Seems like a knowledgable place as Citizens Advice haven't been too helpful to them yet.

 

[Steve Sellers]

If sounds like this is unlawful. Unless they are entitled to the 20 days unpaid on top of paid leave. If this is not the case(which is suspect) then your employer is breaking the law.

Paying people more so they don't take holiday is also unlawful.

 

[Richie N]

Well as long as yours is fine then you have nothing to worry about.
It doesn't sound right about the other contracts, have you actually seen them or just been told this? I would get them to raise their concerns with Human Resources or line manager as it might just be a typing error.

 

[dreyfuss]

Thanks Steve,
The two lads have been with the firm about a year and haven't had one days paid holiday since starting, it is definitely not on top of paid entitlement.
The others who have since started receiving paid entitlement were told they had to accept a reduction in hourly rate to allow them to get paid holidays, not so much that they were being paid more to not take holidays.
Is there any way the MD can work around this as the lads are wanting to go for a meeting with him but are quite concerned at rocking the boat as the construction industry doesn't have plenty of vacancies about at the moment!

 

[dreyfuss]

Well as long as yours is fine then you have nothing to worry about.
It doesn't sound right about the other contracts, have you actually seen them or just been told this? I would get them to raise their concerns with Human Resources or line manager as it might just be a typing error.

True, i just feel i want to try and help them as i am their site manager and morale is pretty low at the moment.
I have seen one yesterday and it definitely states without pay. Can't see it being a typo as per the above post with others being told to take a pay cut to get paid entitlement.
I'm quite happy to try and help them out with HR etc, just trying to make sure we have a few facts first

 

[Richie N]

True, i just feel i want to try and help them as i am their site manager and morale is pretty low at the moment.
I have seen one yesterday and it definitely states without pay. Can't see it being a typo as per the above post with others being told to take a pay cut to get paid entitlement.
I'm quite happy to try and help them out with HR etc, just trying to make sure we have a few facts first

I didn't realise you were the Manager, well in that case you need to address the issue immediately with Human Resources or the Director.
They can't pay below the holiday entitlement, they would be breaking the law.
I would suggest contacting ACAS www.acas.org.uk they will be able to advise further on this but as their Manager you should address the situation with HR.

 

[Steve Sellers]

True, i just feel i want to try and help them as i am their site manager and morale is pretty low at the moment.
I have seen one yesterday and it definitely states without pay. Can't see it being a typo as per the above post with others being told to take a pay cut to get paid entitlement.
I'm quite happy to try and help them out with HR etc, just trying to make sure we have a few facts first

Normally where an employer does this kind of thing there is simply no written contract, or there is one but it doesn't state no holidays are allowed. Very peculiar and very stupid on the part of the employer.

I'm sure you don't want to rock the boat and put their jobs at risk but not paying holiday pay at all is bang out of order. I'm 100% pro employer most of the time but this is totally unacceptable - especially in a high safety risk industry win which rest periods are really important.

Your between a bit of a rock and a had place here. Does your company have a whistle blowing policy?

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

It is stated in their contracts that they are given an entitlement of 20 days unpaid holiday, none at all paid. This is based on working a 38 hour week. Other people employed do receive holiday pay as per the 28 day minimum allowance.

The others who have since started receiving paid entitlement were told they had to accept a reduction in hourly rate to allow them to get paid holidays, not so much that they were being paid more to not take holidays.
Is there any way the MD can work around this as the lads are wanting to go for a meeting with him but are quite concerned at rocking the boat as the construction industry doesn't have plenty of vacancies about at the moment!

The employer clearly knows its responsibilities, as it's giving other staff 28 days paid leave. If these staff are given 20 days unpaid leave (plus bank holidays?), with the alternative being a cut in the hourly rate, it sounds as if there is an aspect of the hourly pay being used to cover the holidays - rolled-up holiday pay. Do the weekly payslips actually make any reference to holiday pay, as this would explain it.


Karl Limpert

 

[dreyfuss]

The employer clearly knows its responsibilities, as it's giving other staff 28 days paid leave. If these staff are given 20 days unpaid leave (plus bank holidays?), with the alternative being a cut in the hourly rate, it sounds as if there is an aspect of the hourly pay being used to cover the holidays - rolled-up holiday pay. Do the weekly payslips actually make any reference to holiday pay, as this would explain it.


Karl Limpert

No, there is nothing on their wage slips stating anything about holiday pay. Just the amount of hours they have worked for the week, normally 38 or above. One person has been here for over 15 years and his contract has always been like this and he's never once hd holiday pay.
Thanks for all the replies so far, been helpful. One of the lads has decided to have a day off today and go and see the director and have a chat about it to start the ball rolling.

 

[Steve Sellers]

15 years?

The employer is clearly in breach of the Working Time Regulations.

Even if they were doing what Karl suggested maybe happening (which occurred to me also) it would be unlawful. I think you need to let these members of staff know the situation and if they want to complain then leave it to them to put a grievance in and follow the proper procedures.

These chaps shouldn't be asking for holiday pay, they should be demanding it.

 

[Vontessa]

Hi New here too so hello,

The only way the company can legally not give paid holiday is if they are classing these workers as self-employed.

However - even if the company has classed them as self-employed it does not necessarily mean that they are and it may be that they need to challenge their employment status.

Directgov website gives a good guide on the different types of employment status (Employed, Worker & Self-Employed) and definitions to understand which one applys.