Graphic design services online ... failing ?

[alwane]

Hello folks,
We launched two years ago an online service to create customized graphic designs (by graphic designers from scratch not something automatically generated from template).
We created the website and the web app (this where the customers fill all the information about the design and receive and evaluate or accept the design or ask for updates).
We :
• Launch ads on facebook : (1) - general, (2) - focus on one product, (3) - giveaways ;
• Launch general ads on google : (1) - general, (2) - focus on one product, (3) - giveaways ;
• Send 4 emails campaigns (landing pages) : 1500 emails, opening rate = 25,53%;
• Send customized emails manually to some selected persons (according to our target persona) : we offer to help them not selling ...
• We offer to do some (easy, like business card or so) graphic designs works for free;

Nothing is working, not a single order, not a single email, not a single request or question.
This so embarrassing ?

Is this a failing business or it's our strategies fault (by strategies i mean us! ?)


Thanks by passing by.

 

[fisicx]

There are bazillions of graphic designers. If I need something doing I just use one of the many freelancers sites.

What you don’t tell us if any of your marketing resulted in people visiting your website? Maybe the problem isn’t your marketing, maybe the problem is your website.

 

[alwane]

Thanks fisicx for our reply.
"There are bazillions of graphic ..." Do you think it's a bad idea ?
We want to offer to the customers the ability to communicate with one trusted interlocutor for all their graphic works. And all the prices are already known (ex : 3 choices of a flyer with 3 times updates 87€).

About visits :
New users 2748 | sessions 4416 | Session per user : 1,84 | page views : 10884 | page/session : 2,46 | time of session (avg) : 02:07 s | rebound rate : 27,7%

Thanks.

 

[fisicx]

That suggests people aren’t interested in what you offer. But without seeing the site it’s difficult offer further advice.

Upgrade your membership and you can get a website review.

 

[Marbman]

I tend to agree with everything fisicx has already said.

Me personally ( i might not be your target audience) if I need some design work then I often do it myself with Canva or if its a logo I use Adobe logo for free.

But if I am wanting something a bit more slick and willing to pay then I usually go to Fiverr for a low cost design.

Your web stats obviously show people are visiting but if you have not even had a single message of interest in 2 years then what you are offer could well be of no interest (who exactly are your ads being targeted at?).

That's not to say your idea wont work, its to say you need to change how you present it or if your traffic is all people with no interest in graphic design then change your marketing.

 

[DontAsk]

What did your market research tell you before you started?

 

[Deleted member 335660]

I would just add that people are not necessarily able to communicate via a form what they are looking for and so face to face they can express their ideas and get feedback.

As indicated small businesses of start just doing it themselves.

 

[HFE Signs]

It’s probably not what you want to hear, but a lot of print companies offer a free basic design service (which is generally good enough) when ordering their products. We were forced down this route many years ago, I can’t remember the last time we charged for design work.

 

[Ian J]

What did your market research tell you before you started?

alwane. Ignore him as there is always one trying to make the poster look small

 

[fisicx]

alwane. Ignore him as there is always one trying to make the poster look small

Maybe. But it is a valid question. This feels like a solution looking for a problem to solve. Finding a graphic designer is already very easy. It just takes time to find the right one (like anything else).

 

[matlob]

The problem is is that people don't often recognise good design from bad. Now everyone has access to software, so they either just do it themselves or use the bottom feeder sites and are happy with what they get, not knowing their brand/design is totally wrong.
Even larger companies are now just hiring graduates and expecting them to be up to speed instead of using a design agency.

 

[MBE2017]

alwane. Ignore him as there is always one trying to make the poster look small

Personally I disagree.

For any business thinking of starting a new venture the first question should be, is there a demand for the product or service? Followed by how are you going to sell it?

I don’t see the comment in trying to make the poster look small, but help in identifying a major missing part of their strategy. It is a common mistake seen on multiple threads, the “build it and they will come” works sometimes, but more often than not it does not.

You can argue on the way the point is made, but I thought this was a forum for business people, grown ups who come looking for advice, whether they like it or not.

 

[Nico Albrecht]

from scratch not something automatically generated from template).

If I'd be a designer right now, I would be really concerned about the likes of Stable fusion and the
rise of deep learning image synthesis.

Not a dream or a future reality. It’s out there right now running on bulk standard over the counter hardware giving any designer a run for their money.

Link here for more info

 

[Nico Albrecht]

alwane. Ignore him as there is always one trying to make the poster look small

A market research would have shown that AI is taking this market over at an alarming rate. So he would need a USP going forward.

I agree with Ian that there is always one trying to make the poster look small but modern tech makes Designers almost a dying breed.

 

[Ian J]

You can argue on the way the point is made, but I thought this was a forum for business people, grown ups who come looking for advice, whether they like it or not.

I did. I have no disagreement with anyone asking if he did market research before launching his business but the way the question was put was deliberately designed to make the poster look stupid and that is not the way to encourage new people to use UKBF

 

[UkAppCoder]

Is this a failing business or it's our strategies fault (by strategies i mean us! ?)

Impossible to say from the information you have given so far.

I'm assuming that you haven't wasted the last two years, and that therefore you have a quite a large portfolio of high quality artworks.

Could I have a look at some of your work please?

 

[alwane]

Me personally ( i might not be your target audience) if I need some design work then I often do it myself with Canva or if its a logo I use Adobe logo for free.

Yes, I agree with you. But don't you think there's a plenty of small business owners who needs this service ?

Your web stats obviously show people are visiting but if you have not even had a single message of interest in 2 years then what you are offer could well be of no interest (who exactly are your ads being targeted at?).

We are targeting small business owners. 1500 already sent are all small business owners.

What did your market research tell you before you started?

Market research tells me that it gonna ba a very successful. To be honest, it wasn't my idea, it was a customer of mine idea, a very successful entrepreneur and a president of a business club. He told me that it will be a very good idea/business and a lot of small businesses owners need this if we can make them an affordable prices. The printing field makes in the country about 35 Billions €. And every printing needs a design. I told my self that's a very big field and may be we can do something.
Once i read on the internet : better to work on a niche market rather than a very big market hoping getting something out of it. I guess it's true.

It’s probably not what you want to hear, but a lot of print companies offer a free basic design service (which is generally good enough) when ordering their products. We were forced down this route many years ago, I can’t remember the last time we charged for design work.

Thanks for the comment. All comments are very welcome, there are all good to me.

I can’t remember the last time we charged for design work.

LOL

I would just add that people are not necessarily able to communicate via a form what they are looking for and so face to face they can express their ideas and get feedback.

As indicated small businesses of start just doing it themselves.

I Agree, i saw this when working locally.

alwane. Ignore him as there is always one trying to make the poster look small

Thank you for your good manners.

Maybe. But it is a valid question. This feels like a solution looking for a problem to solve. Finding a graphic designer is already very easy. It just takes time to find the right one (like anything else).

Yes, very competitive field.

The problem is is that people don't often recognise good design from bad. Now everyone has access to software, so they either just do it themselves or use the bottom feeder sites and are happy with what they get, not knowing their brand/design is totally wrong.
Even larger companies are now just hiring graduates and expecting them to be up to speed instead of using a design agency.

Yes, true. I'm afraid that in crisis period we are the first services that are out of the budget.

is there a demand for the product or service? I think it's obvious, every one needs a graphic design.

how are you going to sell it?

Legitim question.

If I'd be a designer right now, I would be really concerned about the likes of Stable fusion and the
rise of deep learning image synthesis.

With my all respects, i think it's a rash conclusion. There is a very lot work to do before we can use AI for graphic designs.

 

[matlob]

From what I've found targeting small businesses is hard as they are more likely to do it themselves or get their cousin to do it who's good in photoshop. They don't see the value.

The money is in the print. For the majority of my clients I offer free design and charge them for the end product. If I can design something in a few hours and then make a few hundred on the print markup it's a good result. Sometimes a 1 hour design can bring in £1000's in profit this way.

I outsource everything now and have no overheads as such so it's a low risk approach. If I don't work I don't earn but i also don't lose any money.

You LOL'd HFE signs but he/she has the same approach. Sell the end product and make people think they are getting a deal.

The days or design agencies charging a rook for design has gone unless you are at the top of the tree with the big corporates.

Without seeing you website/work it's hard to tell if what you are doing is viable in terms of quality. If they look at it and think "I could do that in corel draw" you're stuffed. They need to see that using you is going to benefit them.

 

[Nico Albrecht]

With my all respects, i think it's a rash conclusion. There is a very lot work to do before we can use AI for graphic designs.

You kidding me. Check the link I posted or here this one to show you what stable fusion can do

Stable Diffusion: Prompt Guide and Examples

Prompt guide for Stable Diffusion including examples and tricks to create great images. Prompt engineering.

strikingloo.github.io

Stable Fusion is open source and can be further trained to tweak your style very simple. More importantly it runs on standard GPU's

As an example what Stable created

https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/000126.1014830103.png

This is an actual photograph of ancient Greek philosopher Heraclitus in 500 BC. No, really!

The link above shows a pictures that took about 14 minutes for the computer to generate. A designer would take days to come up with something similar.

Search for Stable Fusion examples and it is astonishing how far they come in under 9 years. I know a few very good designers and they understand the implication of AI creating artwork and with their own words it is very good and we are ****ed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltLNYA3lWAQ or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iL449snvAmY worth a watch what can be done from an amateur point

 

[japancool]

If I were looking for design services, my first question would be - why you, and not someone else? What's your USP?

 

[DontAsk]

alwane. Ignore him as there is always one trying to make the poster look small

And what have you brought to the thread?

Market research tells me that it gonna ba a very successful. To be honest, it wasn't my idea, it was a customer of mine idea, a very successful entrepreneur and a president of a business club. He told me that it will be a very good idea/business and a lot of small businesses owners need this if we can make them an affordable prices.

If you research was good (but it sounds more like "'phone a friend" to me, who else did you talk to?) then the problem is with your execution, rather than the idea per se.

Have you considered joining the forum as a full member and getting a few reviews of your site?

 

[alwane]

but it sounds more like "'phone a friend"

No, he invest 16K€ on the project.

 

[alwane]

You kidding me. Check the link I posted or here this one to show you what stable fusion can do

I already read the post you posted. But i don't think AI will be a graphic designer soon (or ever, maybe ?). Do you remember the beginning of the computer/internet ? They told us the paper book and all printing industry is dead, is it now ? After so many years ? (the industry is growing 6,7%/year).
Maybe i'm wrong, so what we can do ? stop working ? who must worried is the big companies of design softwares (adobe, ...). For us, we are also in web/mobile dev.

The money is in the print. For the majority of my clients I offer free design and charge them for the end product. If I can design something in a few hours and then make a few hundred on the print markup it's a good result. Sometimes a 1 hour design can bring in £1000's in profit this way.

Very interesting, I came to the same conclusion after all. I bought a domain name to restart the business as a "printer" with the graphic design for free, and i will to outsource the printing. What do you think ? Will this works ?

then the problem is with your execution, rather than the idea per se.

It's very possible.

Have you considered joining the forum as a full member and getting a few reviews of your site?

The website is in French.

 

[japancool]

The website is in French.

Umm - in that case, why are you asking on a UK business forum?

 

[alwane]

Umm - in that case, why are you asking on a UK business forum?

I think business rules are the same every where you go, right ?

 

[japancool]

I think business rules are the same every where you go, right ?

Well, not necessarily, given that the UK is no longer part of the EU. I suggest you ask somewhere where you'll find people more familiar with your market.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

One of the biggest problems we get with Designers is that they don't understand our production methods, or rather they weren't a concern when the brand was built.

A business card with ultra fine text in light grey is great but it won't embroider well. Obvious? Yes, you'd think so but the customer has been hooked by a design that will look classy in a glossy magazine or digitally printed on a van and 9 out of 10 designers don't think outside the box.

 

[fisicx]

The website is in French.

Don’t need to be able to read French to do a review.

16k is a huge amount to pay for a site that isn’t performing.

 

[alwane]

Don’t need to be able to read French to do a review.

16k is a huge amount to pay for a site that isn’t performing.

No dear, this is not a payment for the website, it's an investment to hire more graphic designers, buy Macs ... etc. We still have the money.

 

[alwane]

Don’t need to be able to read French to do a review.

I think it's better if the reviews include the copywriting too, very important.

 

[alwane]

Well, not necessarily, given that the UK is no longer part of the EU. I suggest you ask somewhere where you'll find people more familiar with your market.

With all my respects, I disagree. Sell local, think global.

 

[alwane]

A business card with ultra fine text in light grey is great but it won't embroider well

And do you need to embroider a business card? I never had this kind of request. But if you need it any way, you must notify the graphic designer.
What I saw is the opposite, customers don't think about every possible use of a logo for example, and ask for something that will not render will in some cases.
When create a logo, we think in every possible use of the logo : printing, screen printing, dark brown, embroidery...

I didnt understood your comment very well, is it about outside of the box (creativity) or production methods (technicity)?

 

[fisicx]

I think it's better if the reviews include the copywriting too, very important.

Google translate can help with this.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

And do you need to embroider a business card? I never had this kind of request. But if you need it any way, you must notify the graphic designer.
What I saw is the opposite, customers don't think about every possible use of a logo for example, and ask for something that will not render will in some cases.
When create a logo, we think in every possible use of the logo : printing, screen printing, dark brown, embroidery...

I didnt understood your comment very well, is it about outside of the box (creativity) or production methods (technicity)?

Of course not!?
Your summing up is a little better. Designers who produce for business cards don't think about how that design will transfer for use as an embroidered logo on eg., a Polo shirt.

 

[Evertonized]

Shame you aren't getting many purchases, I buy from Graphic Designers from time to time, and there's two main methods I find them.

1. Facebook Sponsored Posts - I randomly see a logo/graphic I like, start following their page and see if anything else impresses me. Then buy a few months later.
2. Bark or Fiverr - If anything urgent and I don't have a regular supplier, I always look on Bark/Fiverr as their prices are pretty inexpensive and its easy to find a decent designer. I'd recommend you get yourself on Fiver especially if you aren't already!

 

[JamaC]

Your website gets traffic, so It's clear that your issues are from

Your website - Poor design/usability, unclear/vauge poor copy etc

Your services - You offer the same as everyone else, nothing stands out and not worth anyone's time. Or the quality of work is not good enough

Seeing as you are such a crowded market your website and what you offer need to be top notch.

If you really want advice you need to post your website, so the other members can see your site and work.

 

[Ray272]

Excellent newcomer, absolutely put most to the sword.

I use upwork and i grab from the cheap tray for designs. but if your an expert designer and can do an hours work in 10 minutes and get paid for an hour. And do that 3-4 times an hour then thats decent money.

Its a grind but my guy for design is no expert but he can design much better and faster than i can. Plenty of people in my position.

Plenty of people need designs that are not neccessarily professional to your level, but better than the buyers own work and acceptable.

The thing is and im not sure if my way of using these sites is normal, but i hired my design guy at least 50 times in a year and i never posted the jobs for proposals. I just message him through upwork, brief him, he accepts and i hire him.

I believe he has a few clients like that and he is no design pro. Those little jobs are easy for a pro and can be done quick.

Lot of big companies using these platforms now too, seems to be where the focus should be for designers.

Mistakes i have seen people make. Basic stuff like not finding out what content is for. Confirming verbally/chat, printing bleeds stuff like that. Size of print. A4 is ok for uk but its not the same size in US. That type of stuff can be a bit of minefield sometimes.

Logos, so many use these crappy logo makers, no grasp of the actual concept, had 3 guys on logos last month all were awful and my guy was the worst.

There is room for quality on those sites.

 

[fisicx]

What @Ray272 says highlights the problem of a one-size-fis-all design service. Expert logo designers may not be good at posters. Poster designers may not be good at UI. And so on ad infinitem.

We all really need to see the site to understand what you are offering.

 

[Pembroke99]

What @Ray272 says highlights the problem of a one-size-fis-all design service. Expert logo designers may not be good at posters. Poster designers may not be good at UI. And so on ad infinitem.

We all really need to see the site to understand what you are offering.

And none of them are good at marketing.

Perhaps the best thing the OP can do is seek out a marketing and advetising agency who can target his chosen market rather than being a jack of all trades and trying to do the advertsing / marketing side of things himself.

 

[this.is.giles]

Hello folks,
We launched two years ago an online service to create customized graphic designs (by graphic designers from scratch not something automatically generated from template).
We created the website and the web app (this where the customers fill all the information about the design and receive and evaluate or accept the design or ask for updates).
We :
• Launch ads on facebook : (1) - general, (2) - focus on one product, (3) - giveaways ;
• Launch general ads on google : (1) - general, (2) - focus on one product, (3) - giveaways ;
• Send 4 emails campaigns (landing pages) : 1500 emails, opening rate = 25,53%;
• Send customized emails manually to some selected persons (according to our target persona) : we offer to help them not selling ...
• We offer to do some (easy, like business card or so) graphic designs works for free;

Nothing is working, not a single order, not a single email, not a single request or question.
This so embarrassing ?

Is this a failing business or it's our strategies fault (by strategies i mean us! ?)


Thanks by passing by.

Hi.. I've been in the design game 20+ years so I have a solid reputation and I'm fortunate that I find it very easy to pick up work. If you can share some of your design/marketing work, I might be able to give you some advice on what is, or isn't working.