Glut of people starting up?

[Frimley111R]

I was talking to someone who attended a business show recently they said it was full of people trying to start their own business. Is there a glut of people trying to do it these days or is it about the same as it's been for a long time?

 

[TimS]

I was talking to someone who attended a business show recently they said it was full of people trying to start their own business. Is there a glut of people trying to do it these days or is it about the same as it's been for a long time?

There was something in the news recently about the number of new start-ups being on the increase, not surprising really since so many people are struggling to get Jobs.

 

[businessfunding]

There are a lot of people 'thinking' of starting up. Many of them are doing so on the assumption that someone will give them money to do so (see posts on here ad nausiem).

The reality is that most won't get funding and either can't or won't self-fund whilst others will find a low-cost route to entry and will get going.

The underlying trend is definity an increase as a result of unemployment and TV 'sexying-up' what they enjoy calling entrereneurship.

 

[Fred_the_frog]

More people are wanting to become 'entrepreneurs' because of the lack of jobs available. I think it was last year that 360,000 new businesses were registered, and 500,000 businesses collapsed. That's from James Caan's 'How to start a business in 7 days' book.

 

[tony84]

There was a similar thread on here about a year ago.

I think since the recession kicked in, there are less jobs so people are going out on their own - im one of them.
My mate is a tutor at a college for plumbers, his class is packed and has been for about 2 years people are training in new skills. Its good in the sense that atleast theyre not sat claiming but for the people in those roles the amount of work is going to dry up (no pun intended with reference to the plumbing).

 

[Banned]

Not to mention the apprentice, I overheard a conversation about the one where they brought a load of old furniture and stuff and sold it as retro. The conversation went that they could easily do that etc
What they never factored in is the
Rent
Power
Staff
Tax
Etc etc etc
Most of these apprentice tasks are totally unrealistic.
How easy is it to get in front of the buyers for big stores/online marketplaces, how many people would actually buy any of their crap if the cameras were not there. If you have a shop employ someone with a dummy tv camera and tell them a tv programme is being filmed, turnover would double over night.
I could go on and on and on, but all of these things accumulate to people tooling its really easy. Therefore try just start up, I would like to see figures of how many businesses actually turned more than 20k profit or managed to pay the owner more than 20k in wages as anything less you may as well get a job

Exactly, how much did the winning team "made" £1k between five of them over two days. Take of the costs you mention and they would actually have made a minus figure. Just kids people into thinking it's easy. The tasks should be realistic, and if that means that make a loss each week at least people wouldn't be disillusioned, might even make for better telly.

 

[garyk]

There are a lot of people 'thinking' of starting up. Many of them are doing so on the assumption that someone will give them money to do so (see posts on here ad nausiem).

The reality is that most won't get funding and either can't or won't self-fund whilst others will find a low-cost route to entry and will get going.

The underlying trend is definity an increase as a result of unemployment and TV 'sexying-up' what they enjoy calling entrereneurship.

Agree although I think another trend is the barrier to entry is much lower than it was 10/12 years ago and dare I say it greater delusion. Anyone can get a website, call it a business and away you go. Also alot of people seem to think they can build the next ebay, amazon and make a fortune.

Heck even ltd company incorporation which used to be about £200 years ago is about £50 these days.

Gary

 

[captaincloser]

Its much easier than it ever was to get started in 'business' and any organ grinder with a monkey can claim to have a business...and does.

The harsh reality of business rate failure is too shocking to put on this site before the 9pm watershed.

Dont be be put off but a bit of awareness and self-awareness seems lacking as people stumble like lemmings over a cliff ...and many entering grossly over crowded markets and many more not really having a clue about business.

There is an ever increasing market of people desperate to spend redundancy money and life savings to follow the dream engineered by comedy dressed as business tv shows such as the Apprentice. and Dragons Den.

The accountants, franchisors, banks, business start up advisors will be having a field day, every day. There is now a massive industry centred entirely on advising people how to get into business...the churn rate is exceptional.

 

[Fred_the_frog]

Its much easier than it ever was to get started in 'business' and any organ grinder with a monkey can claim to have a business...and does.

I think you're wrong there. I'm sure 50 years ago there was much less rules and regulations to follow, like less tax and stuff. I say that because people who started businesses with no past knowledge ('Born Entrepreneurs') can't have just started a business if there is so much red tape because they wouldn't have known it all, especially without the internet.

I admit now that the internet is around it has become easier, but to counteract that there are many more rules to follow.

 

[captaincloser]

^^^ I do agree with you but may not have made my point clearly...
I am suggesting it is easy and cheap to get a company going these days and there are bucketfulls of advisors to help you in.

Once in, I agree the red tape and so on is now lunacy.

 

[Fred_the_frog]

^^^ I do agree with you but may not have made my point clearly...
I am suggesting it is easy and cheap to get a company going these days and there are bucketfulls of advisors to help you in.

Once in, I agree the red tape and so on is now lunacy.

Ah right. Yeah, I see what you mean there too.

 

[I Love Spreadsheets]

High unemployment and recessions always bring about a flood of start ups. Its only natural.

Do you sit there collecting the dole or do you try and do something about it? I think people should be encouraged to do so. However due to the education system where there is no real compulsory business education, why wouldnt people enter in to thinking funding would be easy to find. I know I did and it was only through asking questions on places like this that I got the real picture

 

[vvaannmmaann]

^^^ I do agree with you but may not have made my point clearly...
I am suggesting it is easy and cheap to get a company going these days and there are bucketfulls of advisors to help you in.

Once in, I agree the red tape and so on is now lunacy.

Sadly,as demonstrated last week,one such potential advisor thought his advice to clients should be to read business forums for help.

 

[tootalpip]

High unemployment and recessions always bring about a flood of start ups. Its only natural.

Do you sit there collecting the dole or do you try and do something about it? I think people should be encouraged to do so. However due to the education system where there is no real compulsory business education, why wouldnt people enter in to thinking funding would be easy to find. I know I did and it was only through asking questions on places like this that I got the real picture

This is true. I know lots of people who have been conned into believing they have a viable business just to get them off the dole. Most of them are due to go under if they haven't already.

 

[businessfunding]

This is true. I know lots of people who have been conned into believing they have a viable business just to get them off the dole. Most of them are due to go under if they haven't already.

Out of interest, in what way have they been 'conned'? Are you talking franchises?

I see many who are naive, but few who have been conned.

 

[tootalpip]

Out of interest, in what way have they been 'conned'? Are you talking franchises?

I see many who are naive, but few who have been conned.

There are a few start up schemes around. They are government schemes. The Advisors actually haven't got a clue about business but talk long term dolites and sickies into starting their own business.

Some of these people are that doped up or mental that they actually get talked into it.

I'd call that being conned!

 

[tootalpip]

Out of interest, in what way have they been 'conned'? Are you talking franchises?

I see many who are naive, but few who have been conned.

Just looked at your website - none intended.

 

[Esk247]

I agree with what someone else mentioned about a lack of business education in college and school. It really is poor. I took GCSE Business Studies and to be honest, I learned more on my own, a LOT more. The course was boring, stale, irrelevant. Nothing about internet trading, nothing about actual real world situations just the same old Tom has 5 cans, he sells those 5 cans to Mary who only has 1 can.

Jesus riding a bike upside down in a tunnel, what a waste of time those 2 years were.

As for people starting up, i think it is getting more confusing than ever. It is cheaper to start up but people are getting advice from so many different areas now that nothing combines to form a solid backbone of information. Business Link was good, it did what it said on the tin and offered some good (not great) advice for start ups, as long as you didn't think too outside the box.

 

[90DC]

A lot of people will start out doing something, usually something they know or think is easy but have no business experience so will often fail.

I think it's about time children learned about the value of running a business and doing things for yourself at school age without feeling as though they should be carried through life by other people.

 

[tootalpip]

The problem is that there is very little room for small independent businesses. I believe that even SEO'ists are now even being driven out of the market by Google.

No jobs and no room for new business but someone can always make a buttie out of a depression.

 

[90DC]

SEO 'Experts' are also being driven out by the sheer number of people who have attended some DIY SEO class in their best friend's kitchen. Much like web design.

The problem seems to be a lack of real demand, especially in the service sector but what do you do when the whole of Europe seems to be sat on it's knees and confidence is low?

 

[Fred_the_frog]

I agree with what someone else mentioned about a lack of business education in college and school. It really is poor. I took GCSE Business Studies and to be honest, I learned more on my own, a LOT more. The course was boring, stale, irrelevant. Nothing about internet trading, nothing about actual real world situations just the same old Tom has 5 cans, he sells those 5 cans to Mary who only has 1 can.

^^ I second that- The tutors/teachers have been taught business through a course- very few have actually set up their own business.


I've also seen banners and fliers that offer you the chance to 'be your own boss', like catalogue delivery or 'Run your own football business'. They look so much like scams and you must be a fool to try one out.

 

[tootalpip]

SEO 'Experts' are also being driven out by the sheer number of people who have attended some DIY SEO class in their best friend's kitchen. Much like web design.

The problem seems to be a lack of real demand, especially in the service sector but what do you do when the whole of Europe seems to be sat on it's knees and confidence is low?

Same happens within most industries I guess. As for what do you do?, well if I knew that I wouldn't be sat here typing on this thing.

 

[Talay]

I opened my first company a couple of decades ago. There was no internet. You had to go to WH Smith or more likely a legal stationer and buy model articles and memorandums of association. You filled them all out in ink and sent them off. You might even get them back weeks later saying no, you cannot have that business name. It all took forever and can now be done in less time than it takes to boil an egg.

Years ago it seemed that people earned more, in a relative sense. Now, half the jobs seem to be at minimum wage, which means you need fistfuls of benefits just to pay the rent. In fact, Loony Labour left us with half the country on benefits and most of the working half working for the state. Tesco employs everyone else.

I was asked the other day what I would advise someone to do if they could not get into the City and I said that if they were not stupid but had no family capital and were brighter than your average Mcburger flipper, you could do a lot worse than joining the golden arches because whilst their salary is pants and working conditions abominable, you can probably end up a few years down the road with funding to have your own restaurants which should turn you into a paper millionaire.

Failing that commitment, opening your own business is probably better than working for minimum wage somewhere else.

 

[90DC]

I've also seen banners and fliers that offer you the chance to 'be your own boss', like catalogue delivery or 'Run your own football business'. They look so much like scams and you must be a fool to try one out.

I see that kind of thing everywhere, all the time. Just this morning did I see an X reg Citroen Xsara with a sticker on the back saying "BE YOUR OWN BOSS. EARN £600-£800 PER MONTH PART TIME"

It got me thinking, if you're earning that a month full time, what kind of figure can you be earning full time AND how much is the man in the Citroen earning AND where's he spending his money? Looked a right scruff as well.

Does anybody actually know what they're advertising?

 

[vvaannmmaann]

You could have asked him I suppose?

 

[Fred_the_frog]

I see that kind of thing everywhere, all the time. Just this morning did I see an X reg Citroen Xsara with a sticker on the back saying "BE YOUR OWN BOSS. EARN £600-£800 PER MONTH PART TIME"

It got me thinking, if you're earning that a month full time, what kind of figure can you be earning full time AND how much is the man in the Citroen earning AND where's he spending his money? Looked a right scruff as well.

Does anybody actually know what they're advertising?

They have suddenly popped up around my area. There must be a catch somewhere... probably something like you have to pay tax on that amount, or you have to pay £1k to join....

 

[90DC]

You could have asked him I suppose?

He was driving and didn't look like the kind of bloke I'd approach in a hurry. I'll stand out in the same spot at a similar time next week, he'll probably drive past again, he's probably depositing his daily earnings in the bank.

 

[90DC]

They have suddenly popped up around my area. There must be a catch somewhere... probably something like you have to pay tax on that amount, or you have to pay £1k to join....

I think the catch will be something to do with having to work on commission for very little or a sign up fee like you say. I've noticed they adverts often tell you to phone a mobile number too.

 

[liongroup]

Peter Thiel mentions this in a recent lecture at Stanford. Perfect competition, especially online where startup costs are lower and generally, barriers are lower, means there will be more competition. Good for consumers right, but for entrepreneurs, it's not clear it will be better in the long run.

 

[Fred_the_frog]

I think the catch will be something to do with having to work on commission for very little or a sign up fee like you say. I've noticed they adverts often tell you to phone a mobile number too.

Yeah, then they have a website like 'livethedream.net' or 'time2getrich.biz'

 

[Nuno]

All the 'more in a recession', 'lower entry cost' points have been raised. A few little bits of info:

Enterquest, (part of Cobweb; a start up business business) has been noting a large increase in the amount of start up failures. You can start a business, get lots of info, but unless you can use it you are doomed.

No source, sorry, but I read an article recently saying that business mentors were quite useful if they had worked in the same sector as those who they were advising/mentoring. Otherwise they were mostly a waste of time.

Lastly, and perhaps a bit harshly, sometimes I see the real barrier to entry/starting a business as the ability to find, sort, and learn useful information from various sources, one of which is forums.
This applies to 'clever' people who won't learn as much as to anyone else.

 

[Talay]

Peter Thiel mentions this in a recent lecture at Stanford. Perfect competition, especially online where startup costs are lower and generally, barriers are lower, means there will be more competition. Good for consumers right, but for entrepreneurs, it's not clear it will be better in the long run.

Mrs Unemployable goes into business. She hasn't got any capital and doesn't bother with any insurance. She also doesn't bother with taxes and possibly still claims benefits. She does however offer her customers a cheap service.

However, the reason Mrs Unemployable is unemployable is because she could not organise a piss up in a brewery. Cheap or not, she'll be late for clients or take liberties. The standard of the work will be poor and any accidents will be met with her just running away. Maybe she''l be picked up for immigration or benefit fraud.

Eventually even her most loyal customers drop her and when they go looking for a replacement they want someone who can do the job property. That does cost more but the job is done correctly, within the law and with the surety of insurance.

So whilst there are fewer barriers of entry, even the smallest businesses need some capital and an organised mind.

 

[businessfunding]

There are a few start up schemes around. They are government schemes. The Advisors actually haven't got a clue about business but talk long term dolites and sickies into starting their own business.

Some of these people are that doped up or mental that they actually get talked into it.

I'd call that being conned!

To be fair my experience of the Government NEA scheme is precisely the opposite of this (though this is a smple os 10 out of 1000's) - the 2 people who really ha the will and means to make a business struggled to get on to the scheme. I can say 100% that there is no agenda to talk anyone into starting a business- the candiate I expressed reservations about was swiftly removed.

 

[captaincloser]

Mrs Unemployable goes into business. She hasn't got any capital and doesn't bother with any insurance. She also doesn't bother with taxes and possibly still claims benefits. She does however offer her customers a cheap service.

However, the reason Mrs Unemployable is unemployable is because she could not organise a **** up in a brewery. Cheap or not, she'll be late for clients or take liberties. The standard of the work will be poor and any accidents will be met with her just running away. Maybe she''l be picked up for immigration or benefit fraud.

Whoa we got an author here... Is there a sequel ? A story about Mr Unemployable and possibly their unemployable brat children ?

The Daily Mail will buy this

 

[I Love Spreadsheets]

Out of interest, in what way have they been 'conned'? Are you talking franchises?

I see many who are naive, but few who have been conned.

A lot of people end up conning themselves or being conned by their families. Not out of spite but out of kindness.

Its been repeated on Dragons Den countless times where candidates believe they have a viable business based on market research carried out amongst family and friends. They will all say the idea is great (even if they dont think it is) out of loyalty to their friend or family member. They can even talk them up to the point where they start to believe funding is almost a right because their idea is so good

 

[captaincloser]

Newton's law of gravity states you HAVE to applaud every idiot's best effort if they are your chum or a relly...very hard to say B****X

 

[Fred_the_frog]

Whoa we got an author here... Is there a sequel ? A story about Mr Unemployable and possibly their unemployable brat children ?

The Daily Mail will buy this

Yes, the Daily Mail will buy it but it definitely won't appear in the paper like that

 

[Talay]

A lot of people end up conning themselves or being conned by their families. Not out of spite but out of kindness.

Its been repeated on Dragons Den countless times where candidates believe they have a viable business based on market research carried out amongst family and friends. They will all say the idea is great (even if they dont think it is) out of loyalty to their friend or family member. They can even talk them up to the point where they start to believe funding is almost a right because their idea is so good

And most crap websites have been tested by people who are familiar with the product or know the subject matter. They browse over the imperfections and the illogical set up whereas a potential new customer simply gives up because it is just a badly designed website.

Other folk go into business providing what they want to without any thought as to what their potential customer base wants to buy.

 

[hmmm]

I was talking to someone who attended a business show recently they said it was full of people trying to start their own business. Is there a glut of people trying to do it these days or is it about the same as it's been for a long time?

sick of agencies i guess