Glasgow Rangers

[Super Simon]

I always find it such a shame when a company goes bust, especially a football club with a big fanbase like Rangers.

Such a shame. But it makes you wonder, what the hell do they do with their money? Fair enough they have wages to pay (mostly over inflated, but that's another discussion!) and a ground to run. But surely the money they make from television rights, merchandise and ticket sales must bring in plenty?

 

[Charity Calls]

It's a shame for the honest fans, but ultimately professional football is no more than a giant ponzi scheme.... The regulations around running a football club have to change or it will just keep happening.

 

[Super Simon]

It's a shame for the honest fans, but ultimately professional football is no more than a giant ponzi scheme.... The regulations around running a football club have to change or it will just keep happening.

Too true.

Maybe UKBF members could all chip in and we can set up a consortium to buy the club out? In keeping with the feel of the forum, we can invite a daily spammer to enter the boardroom and pitch to us some utter <<<profanity removed>>> about a new business they are setting up to make the grass greener.

 

[Preemo]

Just shows how much money is in football and how ridiculous it is! This will carry on happening as these big clubs try to compete with the big spenders, but they can't actually afford it. They pay their players too much, they spend too much on player transfers and they just cannot afford it in the long run, and now it's all caught up with them.

Their chairman, who bought the club for £1 got it that cheap because he promised to clear the club's debts and invest much more, so obviously it looked bright for Rangers fans - but he didn't deliver and he's part of the reason why they're in this mess, so when I saw all the fans shouting and chanting at the chairman when he was going to his car, it didn't surprise me at all.

Very sad news though, being a massive football fan as well!

 

[Charity Calls]

Very true.

 

[leemason]

The who football industry is pretty much the same. Most clubs could not survive without massive cash injections. If they were in any other industry their directors would be in court for trading whilst insolvent.

And this is a position that they have brought upon themselves by bidding players salaries up over the years to completely unsustainable levels. They just can't afford it anymore but they also can't afford not to do it because they want the best players.

There will be many more in the years to come. Only an unlimited supply of rich benefactors can stop most clubs facing the same fate.

 

[Truemanbrown]

The trouble is that a lot of clubs pay at least 75% (and normally more than this) of their income in player's wages.

Clubs cannot survive indefinitely if this continues!

 

[JamieM]

Just shows how much money is in football and how ridiculous it is! This will carry on happening as these big clubs try to compete with the big spenders, but they can't actually afford it. They pay their players too much, they spend too much on player transfers and they just cannot afford it in the long run, and now it's all caught up with them.

It will improve when the financial fair play rules come in in 2013.

 

[Preemo]

It will improve when the financial fair play rules come in in 2013.

What's the rule if you don't mind me asking?

 

The who football industry is pretty much the same. Most clubs could not survive without massive cash injections. If they were in any other industry their directors would be in court for trading whilst insolvent.

Quite I have often wondered how they are allowed to continue in business?

I believe MU owe over 1 billion.

Of course when they do hit the tracks as Rangers have its the taxpayer who pays there debts.

Earl

 

[captaincloser]

Quite I have often wondered how they are allowed to continue in business?

Of course when they do hit the tracks as Rangers have its the taxpayer who pays there debts.

Earl

Yeah, but the good news Earl is that it'll be your friend Alex Salmond who will have to organise the taxpayer bailout from Scottish taxpayers given that this drags on as long as these cases usually do and by then Scotland will be just Scotland, surely ?

 

[JamieM]

What's the rule if you don't mind me asking?

There are quite a lot of articles around the internet but wikipedia is a good starting point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Financial_Fair_Play_Regulations

 

[Geoff T]

super-inflated salaries for the players... biz killer every day - simples...

 

[Moneyman]

The main figure is they lose £10M per year for the last few years. They have been trying to diddle the taxman and they have been caught.

The whole business doesnt work in any finacial sense. Theyy should try to work it like the american football where the teams try to make an even financial situation throughout the businesses and having good family matches is more important than just winning every year. Celtic and rangers just fight it out and nobody else bothers investing as they have no chance to win against them. In the end it all gets boring and if you have ever been to a match in glasgow you will know that it is no place for families so they dont get the income and it all goes round in circles.
Stupid game.

 

[directmarketingadvice]

I believe MU owe over 1 billion.

I believe Manchester United, the football club, are financially healthy.

Their owners, which are a couple of holding companies, are up to their necks in debt because they borrowed the money to buy the club. (And that's where their debt comes from, along with the interest they've been rolling over - but it's their debt, not the debt of the football club.)

If those holding companies went bust, the football club wouldn't go bust. It would just be an asset that would be sold in order to generate money for the holding companies' creditors.

Steve

 

[leemason]

I understand they even own £9m in unpaid PAYE and NI contributions.

 

[Dan@Printwell]

It will improve when the financial fair play rules come in in 2013.

That rule is a joke,

They talked about it for some time and decided to implement 3 years ago but delayed it so clubs could balance their books, this has allowed the big spenders to go on one last spending spree and to buy up the young talent. I have not seen Chelsea, Man u, Man city, Liverpool or anyone else try and curve their spending in that time.

This is not just a British problem either, Madrid and Barcelona have run at a loss for a long time and continue to spend.

And even when the rule takes effect, clubs will not be banned from European competitions immediately, instead they will be warned and given more time to rectified the situation. And why, because UEFA know a champions league without the above teams will not generate them the same amount of money.

Greed rules football and it us the fans that pay the cost.

 

[MikeJ]

I believe Manchester United, the football club, are financially healthy.

Their owners, which are a couple of holding companies, are up to their necks in debt because they borrowed the money to buy the club. (And that's where their debt comes from, along with the interest they've been rolling over - but it's their debt, not the debt of the football club.)

If those holding companies went bust, the football club wouldn't go bust. It would just be an asset that would be sold in order to generate money for the holding companies' creditors.

Steve

MUFC have debts of £475 million.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...-let-Sir-Alex-spend-spend-spend.html#comments

However, they make a profit and could pay off the debt if their creditors were concerned.

 

[Moneyman]

Greed rules football and it us the fans that pay the cost.

Just where is it that the fans pay? the problem with football is the fans dont pay enough to pay the players!

It is fantastic how wrong all the fans are..."oh must leave Man U because they have been sold to yanks and we will never win a cup........"

Fans deserve what they get when it goes wrong and dont deserve what they get when it goes right.

 

[Dan@Printwell]

Just where is it that the fans pay? the problem with football is the fans dont pay enough to pay the players!

It is fantastic how wrong all the fans are..."oh must leave Man U because they have been sold to yanks and we will never win a cup........"

Fans deserve what they get when it goes wrong and dont deserve what they get when it goes right.

Inflated ticket prices, Sky sports subscription, ESPN subscription, replica shirts and so on.

Not all fans are trophy chasing glory hunters and the ones who do behave in such a way are not fans at all in my opinion.

 

I believe Manchester United, the football club, are financially healthy.

Their owners, which are a couple of holding companies, are up to their necks in debt because they borrowed the money to buy the club. (And that's where their debt comes from, along with the interest they've been rolling over - but it's their debt, not the debt of the football club.)

If those holding companies went bust, the football club wouldn't go bust. It would just be an asset that would be sold in order to generate money for the holding companies' creditors.

Steve

Smoke and mirrors.

Earl

 

[bdw]

One problem with Rangers is that the new owner (apart from being an Alan B'stard lookalike) is a bit of a chancer. He was barred from running businesses for seven years up until about 2007.

The previous owner, Sir David Murray is however more to blame. they got into this debt under his stewardship. He is the slope shouldered guy who is ultimately responsible. That is why he sold the club for £1.

.

 

[Jeff FV]

Rangers have called in Vodafone. Not to do the telecoms, but to sort out the tax bill.

Jeff

source

 

[bdw]

Apparently the crisis will soon be over.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotti...be_over_and_rangers_fc_will_survive_1_2117659

.

 

[Multi-store]

If rangers move to the Premier league, which all Scottish clubs should have done a long time ago, they'd have more money in general so might not have ended up in this mess. That said, do we want them ruining our beautiful game?

 

If rangers move to the Premier league, which all Scottish clubs should have done a long time ago, they'd have more money in general so might not have ended up in this mess. That said, do we want them ruining our beautiful game?

Its not your game ,like most of the better things in life.

Its our game.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Football-was-invented-in-Scotland-26546.shtml

Earl

 

[leemason]

Its not your game ,like most of the better things in life.

Its our game.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Football-was-invented-in-Scotland-26546.shtml

Earl

Ah, that's obviously where the Ancient Greeks got it from: http://emma-oxenby-wohlfart.suite101.com/introduction-to-ancient-greek-ball-games-a170259

 

[bdw]

If rangers move to the Premier league, which all Scottish clubs should have done a long time ago, they'd have more money in general so might not have ended up in this mess. That said, do we want them ruining our beautiful game?

Your beautiful game?

• More than half of your premiership clubs are owned by foreigners.
• Of the 20 premiership teams only four are managed by Englishmen (you have six Scots by the way).
• At the start of this premier league season only 42% of players registered were English.

No room for complacency.


.

 

[Digger]

Its not your game ,like most of the better things in life.

Its our game.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Football-was-invented-in-Scotland-26546.shtml

Earl

Come on - it's "footballs coming home" - not "ach fitbas coomin hume "

 

[bdw]

Here's where it really started. Renton FC, Champions of the World in 1888.
http://www.valeofleven.org.uk/football01.html

.

 

[bdw]

"ach fitbas coomin hume "

Not even close!

It's "Fitba's cummin hame!"

.

 

Ah, that's obviously where the Ancient Greeks got it from: http://emma-oxenby-wohlfart.suite101.com/introduction-to-ancient-greek-ball-games-a170259

Ney laddie all the greeks did was kick a ball round in circles.

It took a Scot to design a game.

Earl

 

Your beautiful game?

• More than half of your premiership clubs are owned by foreigners.
• Of the 20 premiership teams only four are managed by Englishmen (you have six Scots by the way).
• At the start of this premier league season only 42% of players registered were English.

No room for complacency.


.

Fear not Laddie the English have always had to look elsewhere when they needed talent.

I believe the greatest talent was slave trading,which they were very good at, although they did tend to lose rather a lot of there cargo on route.?

Earl

 

[Digger]

which they were very good at, although they did tend to lose rather a lot of there cargo on route.?

Earl

So very bitter yon sackernackers- that was just a early version of recycling - we feed the fish - we reap the fish - we eat the fish.

Jets - English
Computers - English
Curry - English
Football - Englsih
Recycling -English

List is endless really - be quicker to give what England didn't invent - like Ginger Wigs and Bread crusted boiled eggs

 

[adventurelife]

Here is the short version in approx numbers

Rangers cost approx £45m a year to run. Income with no European champions league football is £35m. With the champions league Rangers make a £10m profit. So huge gamble on making the champions league ever year. Miss it to many times and the debt builds up and that has happened.

Also in the background HMRC have gone after Rangers for using EBT's mainly 10 years ago. They are not saying they are illegal they are not they are saying the way Rangers implemented them was illegal. Potential tax liability is somewhere between £34-£79m depending on penalties applied and who;s numbers you believe. Bottom line is , if Rangers lose the case that cannot pay.

Current chairman purchased the club for £1 and £18m of payment direct to Lloyds to clear the bank debt. This made him the secured creditor.

Now for my opinion bit. He purchased knowing from day one he would take the club into administration at some point. He has run up more debt before doing so. Currently HMRC have not got more than 25% of the debt so cannot stop a CVA happening.

So 2 options

1. club comes out of administration with all those owed getting pennies in the pound
2. he liquidates the club and still owns all the assets as the secured creditor and starts again under a new name

Current Chairman has a history of doing this and although morally wrong I suspect strongly he has all the detail in place and it has been handled by professionals for the last year knowing it was going to happen. He did not cause the debt at Rangers but it certainly looks like he is personally going to make a financially killing out of others misery.

Of course I could be totally wrong and he does a pre-pack and gives all the assets back to the new Rangers but I suspect the best Rangers can hope for is he rents them back or he sells to a new owner and walks away.

It is looking like a very public example of what is bad and the same time legal in business. The current chairman could make millions on this and have only spent £1 of his own cash!

 

[gordano]

I believe Manchester United, the football club, are financially healthy.

Their owners, which are a couple of holding companies, are up to their necks in debt because they borrowed the money to buy the club. (And that's where their debt comes from, along with the interest they've been rolling over - but it's their debt, not the debt of the football club.)

If those holding companies went bust, the football club wouldn't go bust. It would just be an asset that would be sold in order to generate money for the holding companies' creditors.

Steve

Very interesting about the ownership. I just did a check on MANCHESTER UNITED FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED and found the following for their 2011 accounts:

Cash in bank: £126 mil
Current liabilities: £302 mil
And net worth - (minus) £64 mil

 

[bdw]

Football - Englsih

You see! When it comes to football you cannot even spell it!

.

 

You see! When it comes to football you cannot even spell it!

.

Quite its whats called a fraudian slip which is another name for.

I am fuwked.:|

Earl

 

[bdw]

The current chairman could make millions on this and have only spent £1 of his own cash!

Then he is clearly underestimating the fanatical following that Rangers have worldwide. He will have to spend the rest of his life, wherever he is in the world, looking over his shoulder for the crazies!

.

 

[Digger]

You see! When it comes to football you cannot even spell it!

.

You had better hope I don't don my Grammar Monitor badge for your future posts!
So maybe we can't spell it occasionally- but we CAN play it
remind us how many worlds cups Scotland has won....that would be exactly - zero