Getting rid of accountants - Are we any nearer in 2026 ?

[Byzantium]

I use Excel, always have, always will. I've tried the likes of Xero, Kashflow, Quickbooks and even Sage and all of them a a hindrance rather than a help if you are even moderately proficient with Excel.

So I have a chart of accounts which matches what the accountants use for filing and I prepare pivot tables, gross and net matching these, every transaction is categorised, accruals and prepayments all accounted for, as is motor, any change in assets and the opening and closing stock and bank numbers. I don't exactly give the accountant a shoebox of receipts !

In effect, I have already done the accounts, save for putting them in a standard format, which I am easily capable of doing, also in Excel and if needed, writing macros to manipulate anything, though in truth, it would only need links to cells in pivots. I used to do this for my contracting companies back in the mid 1990s.

As I have a number of companies, some with more transactions, some with less, but Excel doesn't care how many there are, the accountancy bill reaches well over £10k and the accountant thinks it should go up. To contrast, I think it should go down as they should be investing in AI or whatever to automate and what they should be doing is pivoting to tax advice, not reformatting the numbers I already calculate for them and charging me thousands for the privilege.

So is there software out there that can do it all and link to HMRC ? I don't think the likes of Xero want that as they make money from signing up accountants who then make commissions from signing up their clients and removing the accountants from the equation would be the end of that gravy train.

 

[Ozzy]

Giving an alternative perspective, the thought that my finance manager would run our accounts in Excel would scare me. I'd like to see evidence that all our invoices, both in and out, reconcile with our bank and asset register, and I would also like to see evidence behind the departmental forecasts. If I was to ask what's behind code 6100 and get a print out of all the supplier invoices, and then be able to click to see those invoice details - that's the level of assurance I like to see.

If my accounts department came to me with that in Excel I'd be alarmed.

I'd also never sit down with an AI bot and review my personal and business tax planning, and definitely not be seated at a table with an AI agent on a laptop when going through due diligence with an acquirer.

 

[fisicx]

My accountant doesn’t cost thousands. The savings they make each year far outweighs their fee.

I’d not want to replace them with a bot.

 

[Daybooks]

Giving an alternative perspective, the thought that my finance manager would run our accounts in Excel would scare me. I'd like to see evidence that all our invoices, both in and out, reconcile with our bank and asset register, and I would also like to see evidence behind the departmental forecasts. If I was to ask what's behind code 6100 and get a print out of all the supplier invoices, and then be able to click to see those invoice details - that's the level of assurance I like to see.

If my accounts department came to me with that in Excel I'd be alarmed.

I'd also never sit down with an AI bot and review my personal and business tax planning, and definitely not be seated at a table with an AI agent on a laptop when going through due diligence with an acquirer.

I use Microsoft Excel for my own company and those for whom I do their bookkeeping. The reason is simple. It is more efficient. We know the financial position at anytime and everything is at our fingertips tips. To get the same analysis from so called ‘commercial software’ is not available unless of course you extract the data out and import into Excel. The irony!

Now granted most people confuse Excel as a spreadsheet only with all the possible user errors associated, but Excel has a rich programming language which rivals any off the shelf commercial accounting packages. I have no reason to knock commercial software but labelling them as good doesn’t make them so.

By way of example a new client was convinced that he would be able to manage all his companies better if they were all cloud based rather than desktop based. On examination his desktop companies were all profitable but he had one cloud based one that was loss making.

The value comes in the ability to understand and interpret the accounts. Combined with forecasting techniques you have the ability to both make informed decisions and indeed gain a competitive advantage. That value is with the individual and AI is just a tool.

Be careful: automated reconciliations are no reconciliation at all.

 

[Daybooks]

I don’t have to use my electrician to do my electrical wiring; but I choose to do for the fact that I appreciate the training and effort and appliance of regulations they put into their profession.

You pays your money; you make your choice.

 

[GLAbusiness]

I like to think of myself as an Excel expert. A great tool. I have written a large Excel model (80+ worksheets, 80+ VBA subroutines) to help a client manage certain situations in a critical infrastructure environment.

For my own business I use FreeAgent. I get

• automatic bank feeds
• best guess reconciliation ready for my review
• Invoicing
• Payroll
• Vat returns
• Cashflow
• Accountant ready data for my accountant to produce year end returns.
• Up to date NIC rates
• etc.

There is absolutely no way I would waste my time developing an excel equivalent.

I have no reason to doubt OP's expertise and would not question his decision to continue to use a model he has spent considerable time on over the years.

I can also understand Daybooks stance. The Excel model is built to collect data from clients in a way suitable for further processing. That is a valid business model. I assume the spreadsheet is properly locked down to prevent users "improving" it.

For the vast majority of business users I believe that in-house use of Excel for accounting is fraught with danger

 

[scstock]

So is there software out there that can do it all and link to HMRC ? I don't think the likes of Xero want that as they make money from signing up accountants who then make commissions from signing up their clients and removing the accountants from the equation would be the end of that gravy train.

Have a look at Andica Accounts

Andica Accounts Production

accountsproduction.andica.com

 

[Ziggy2024]

Not to get into whether your accountant is just reformatting your figures the answer to the question is that you will need to be able to produce accounts that are in or are able to be converted to ixbrl software to submit them to companies house & HMRC.

If you can do that you need to then have thus accepted as an approved software by HMRC otherwise they will not accept it (this is my understanding, I haven't tested the theory). The alternative is to import a trial balance into one of the accounts production softwares (andica has been mentioned, I think VT might be worth a look for you as it works similar to excel) to enable you to file your accounts.

 

[fisicx]

An accountant will also be aware of changes in legislation that may reduce your tax bill. HMRC aren’t going to tell you of this when you fill in your spreadsheet.

They may cost you £10k but if they save you £20k in tax they are worth the investment.

 

[tony84]

Shop around for a different accountant?
At £10k, there must be some work involved their end. I pay mine £1,500 give or take for accounts and self assessment. I doubt he does 10 hours work on my accounts throughout the year so I think im paying too much, but at the same time if I have a question he answers it in about 30 seconds so he saves me time and headaches.

Im sure there would be a few accountants happy to look after you for less if its as little work as you suggest it is.

 

[GLAbusiness]

OP says a number of companies. Each company will need its own accounts. The £10K total may be reasonable

 

[Lisa Thomas]

That sounds to me more like you do the bookkeeping side of the accounting, rather than the accounting/tax work itself.

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

I use Excel, always have, always will. I've tried the likes of Xero, Kashflow, Quickbooks and even Sage and all of them a a hindrance rather than a help if you are even moderately proficient with Excel.

So I have a chart of accounts which matches what the accountants use for filing and I prepare pivot tables, gross and net matching these, every transaction is categorised, accruals and prepayments all accounted for, as is motor, any change in assets and the opening and closing stock and bank numbers. I don't exactly give the accountant a shoebox of receipts !

In effect, I have already done the accounts, save for putting them in a standard format, which I am easily capable of doing, also in Excel and if needed, writing macros to manipulate anything, though in truth, it would only need links to cells in pivots. I used to do this for my contracting companies back in the mid 1990s.

As I have a number of companies, some with more transactions, some with less, but Excel doesn't care how many there are, the accountancy bill reaches well over £10k and the accountant thinks it should go up. To contrast, I think it should go down as they should be investing in AI or whatever to automate and what they should be doing is pivoting to tax advice, not reformatting the numbers I already calculate for them and charging me thousands for the privilege.

So is there software out there that can do it all and link to HMRC ? I don't think the likes of Xero want that as they make money from signing up accountants who then make commissions from signing up their clients and removing the accountants from the equation would be the end of that gravy train.

Seeing some of the reponses I've had using AI I think I'm safe for a while.

As others have said don't confuse bookkeeping with accounting and tax - it's very different.

Your accountant must be doing a lot charging well over £10k.

 

[Byzantium]

Giving an alternative perspective, the thought that my finance manager would run our accounts in Excel would scare me. I'd like to see evidence that all our invoices, both in and out, reconcile with our bank and asset register, and I would also like to see evidence behind the departmental forecasts. If I was to ask what's behind code 6100 and get a print out of all the supplier invoices, and then be able to click to see those invoice details - that's the level of assurance I like to see.

If my accounts department came to me with that in Excel I'd be alarmed.

I'd also never sit down with an AI bot and review my personal and business tax planning, and definitely not be seated at a table with an AI agent on a laptop when going through due diligence with an acquirer.

It depends what scale you are. You have finance managers, multiple departments, etc.

I don't bother with numbered charts of accounts. I never saw the logic in transforming a word that everyone knows into a code that no-one knows only to have to then look up the code or drill down into it. It seems the mastery of creating work for its own sake.

However, I certainly do think that at a larger level, you cannot rely on Excel and I think this s where you are operating. Your fear is therefore well justified but somewhere between official corporate and Tommy the plumber, the need to go all numeric on a chart of accounts is overkill.

I suspect I'm pushing the envelope but it is my envelope and were I handing these functions over to someone else, then yes, I'd probably want it more locked down, even if they end up running scenario tests on data exported back into Excel !

 

[Byzantium]

My accountant doesn’t cost thousands. The savings they make each year far outweighs their fee.

I’d not want to replace them with a bot.

Your accountants save you precisely zero doing your accounts. If they save you money from tax advice then that is a separate issue and as I said, I have no problems paying for good tax advice.

 

[Byzantium]

I don’t have to use my electrician to do my electrical wiring; but I choose to do for the fact that I appreciate the training and effort and appliance of regulations they put into their profession.

You pays your money; you make your choice.

On the other hand, some of us grew up knowing which end of a knife was sharp and we are comfortable installing minor and medium electrics in our properties.

I also bring in the specialists when needed but just because the halfwits of today cannot change a lightbulb resulting in the draconian Part P where we are not supposedly able to rewire a socket doesn't make their ineptitude a basline.

 

[Byzantium]

I like to think of myself as an Excel expert. A great tool. I have written a large Excel model (80+ worksheets, 80+ VBA subroutines) to help a client manage certain situations in a critical infrastructure environment.

For my own business I use FreeAgent. I get

• automatic bank feeds
• best guess reconciliation ready for my review
• Invoicing
• Payroll
• Vat returns
• Cashflow
• Accountant ready data for my accountant to produce year end returns.
• Up to date NIC rates
• etc.

There is absolutely no way I would waste my time developing an excel equivalent.

I have no reason to doubt OP's expertise and would not question his decision to continue to use a model he has spent considerable time on over the years.

I can also understand Daybooks stance. The Excel model is built to collect data from clients in a way suitable for further processing. That is a valid business model. I assume the spreadsheet is properly locked down to prevent users "improving" it.

For the vast majority of business users I believe that in-house use of Excel for accounting is fraught with danger

• automatic bank feeds - csv export in seconds
• best guess reconciliation ready for my review - no guessing reconciliation using previously linked supplier and invoice data
• Invoicing - we have that taken care of by proprietary EPOS / CRM / etc.
• Payroll - accountant
• Vat returns - takes precisely 0 seconds as it constantly updates with ever new bank data update.
• Cashflow - theoretical ? assuming invoices are paid on date or run across a volatility surface to predict seasonality etc, ?
• Accountant ready data for my accountant to produce year end returns - Yup, pivots at the ready in chart of account format
• Up to date NIC rates - payroll aka accountants.

 

[Byzantium]

OP says a number of companies. Each company will need its own accounts. The £10K total may be reasonable

I think this is a fair point. There are a number of companies but it is grunt level stuff that should be automated and thus, should not need many hours of billing.

 

[Byzantium]

That sounds to me more like you do the bookkeeping side of the accounting, rather than the accounting/tax work itself.

Well, yes, to a degree but I also understand the tax position, capital allowances and include this in my planning and perhaps this is the crux of it.

I don't think my provincial accountants have the tax expertise which I would happily pay for and whilst they can make a decent argument for Bob the Builder's accounting costs to go up each year, which he accepts because the price of his bricks goes up each year, I think automation should be chipping away at the fundamental costs of basic company accounting.

Put it this way, no-one with half a brain thinks that all this number crunching is going to be done by humans in X short years do they ?

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

@Byzantium is right in that AI is transforming the accountancy profession by automating repetitive tasks such as data entry and reconciliations but it will not replace tasks that require professional judgement or some form of decision making process such as valuation of work in progress at year end date, provisions for contingencies for warranty claims, litigation provisions, restructuring costs or costs relating to closing down a branch, accrued income determinations etc.

 

[GLAbusiness]

There are a number of companies but it is grunt level stuff that should be automated and thus, should not need many hours of billing.

For me FreeAgent does the grunt level stuff, my accountant adds value