General Election (blues)

[WaveJumper]

Not sure we have a thread on this yet (if there is MOD’s can delete this) perhaps it’s a too depressing to think about, but its firmly on the horizon should we be worried about the result:

Are we in for a hung parliament, or are Labour going to storm into power, as current polls suggest. If the latter, will the outcome have an adverse effect on your own business, are you already making plans are you battening down the hatches.

Or perhaps you think it’s not going to make any difference whatsoever; it will be business as usual. Personally, I feel we are going to be in for a prolonged period of mudslinging far worse than what we are currently witnessing and it’s not going to be very pleasant in the coming months.

Of course, we also have the election on the other side of the pond to consider, perhaps not directly affecting our own here but certainly both will be causing let’s say, some ripples in the markets. The markets, for the moment are more focused on inflation & possible interest rate cuts, in fact many indices are currently at record highs, traders like volatility and there’s no doubt in my mind there’s plenty of that to come.

 

[Paul Carmen]

The economy is on life support, with huge amounts of money wasted and massive mistakes made by the current government. They also appear to be the most self serving, greedy, and generally incompetent of any government from any party I can recall. The economic mismanagement has been astounding.

The lower paid are having a shockingly bad time at the minute, as cost of living increases and erosion of real term wages and support; e.g. the hollowing out of public services, local council funding and the state of the UK infrastructure, like the road network, doesn't help anyone.

In terms of business, I suspect not much will change, as long as no cluster f@**s like the mini budget occur again, but it heavily depends on what type of business you run. Many companies profit relies on business to business and higher income customers, so aren't impacted that heavily by issues for the lower paid and a small recession, which we are probably through now.

I don't think anyone could do any worse, hopefully we'll have a new government and some proper investment, instead of life support bean counting. Whether it makes much difference with interest rates and much of monetary policy set by the BOE remains to be seen...

 

[Newchodge]

The economy is on life support, with huge amounts of money wasted and massive mistakes made by the current government. They also appear to be the most self serving, greedy, and generally incompetent of any government from any party I can recall.

The lower paid are having a shockingly bad time at the minute, as cost of living increases and erosion of real term wages and support; e.g. the hollowing out of public services, local council funding and the state of the UK infrastructure like the road network

And Labour appear to be promising more of the same. Why do our politicians consider spending on public services as money down the drain, rather than as an investment leading to economic growth?

 

[MikeJ]

Went out for a pint last night. First place was so busy they'd run out of beer (no lager on tap at all, three or four were off). Next pub we couldn't get a seat in. So, my small survey of two pubs close to me suggests the economy is doing fine.

 

[WaveJumper]

Went out for a pint last night. First place was so busy they'd run out of beer (no lager on tap at all, three or four were off). Next pub we couldn't get a seat in. So, my small survey of two pubs close to me suggests the economy is doing fine.

Probably all the patrons had have enough and drinking themselves into oblivion

 

[Paul Carmen]

And Labour appear to be promising more of the same. Why do our politicians consider spending on public services as money down the drain, rather than as an investment leading to economic growth?

Sorry fat fingers, I pressed enter before I finished typing, now edited!

I agree Cyndy, I think the back peddling on the green investment, or any large scale investments in future UK infrastructure is a massive mistake.

It's not like 96-97 when Blair turned Labour into a party with vision and inspired people that things could be better, plus the economy was starting to turn the corner. The only similarity is that Sunak's government, like Major's, has run out of steam and is embroiled in scandal and sleaze.

Labour are scared and relying on a backlash against the Tories to gain power. The narrative is still largely believed that the Tories are the party of financial competence, while Labour are spend, boom and bust. Despite the recent Labour government being the most financially competent of any, and the Conservative's giving us the mini budget & Sterling/bonds crisis, Brexit, recessions, the Black Wednesday interest rate crisis, the 3 day week and blackouts...

All politicians are too scared to have a proper conversation and say that investment is needed, that we are in a mess. This is because the reality means higher taxes, or a fundamental rethink of taxes on lower paid, higher paid, wealth, and inheritance.

 

[WaveJumper]

The economy is on life support, with huge amounts of money wasted and massive mistakes made by the current government. They also appear to be the most self serving, greedy, and generally incompetent of any government from any party I can recall. The economic mismanagement has been astounding.

The lower paid are having a shockingly bad time at the minute, as cost of living increases and erosion of real term wages and support; e.g. the hollowing out of public services, local council funding and the state of the UK infrastructure, like the road network, doesn't help anyone.

In terms of business, I suspect not much will change, as long as no cluster f@**s like the mini budget occur again, but it heavily depends on what type of business you run. Many companies profit relies on business to business and higher income customers, so aren't impacted that heavily by issues for the lower paid and a small recession, which we are probably through now.

I don't think anyone could do any worse, hopefully we'll have a new government and some proper investment, instead of life support bean counting. Whether it makes much difference with interest rates and much of monetary policy set by the BOE remains to be seen...

Agree I was about to type a list: Broken health service, can't get a doctors appointment, can't find a dentist, we've not built a new reservoir in 40 plus years and yet building more houses with immigration through the roof, we let companies pump sewage into the rivers and seas, its the 2024 for fu****sake, you get the picture, I struggle to find any part of Britain at the moment which has not been bought to its knees.

Yet out politicians fight and scrabble whilst Rome burns, its not a pretty picture in my book

 

[Paul Carmen]

Went out for a pint last night. First place was so busy they'd run out of beer (no lager on tap at all, three or four were off). Next pub we couldn't get a seat in. So, my small survey of two pubs close to me suggests the economy is doing fine.

Where do you live?
It's shows some people are doing OK, it's not really reflective of the waiting lists and state of the NHS, food bank usage, the roads falling to pieces etc.

 

[Newchodge]

Agree I was about to type a list: Broken health service, can't get a doctors appointment, can't find a dentist, we've not built a new reservoir in 40 plus years and yet building more houses with immigration through the roof, we let companies pump sewage into the rivers and seas, its the 2024 for fu****sake, you get the picture, I struggle to find any part of Britain at the moment which has not been bought to its knees.

Yet out politicians fight and scrabble whilst Rome burns, its not a pretty picture in my book

The reason all public services are broken is because (1) they have been starved of resources since 2010, if not before and (2) much of the expenditure is on debt servicing (PFI, thanks Blair) and private profits - privatisation and outsourcing.

We don't have enough nurses to staff the NHS, anuthing to do with nurses requiring degrees, having to pay fees, loosing the bursaries they used to receive and having to work for free in hospitals doing 'placements'?

Children's social services cannot cope, partly because of the cost of having to house children in need in private children's homes whose private owners make huge profits.

Elderly care the same.

I won't go on.

 

[MikeJ]

Where do you live?
It's shows some people are doing OK, it's not really reflective of the waiting lists and state of the NHS, food bank usage, the roads falling to pieces etc.

We were in central Edinburgh. Pretty much everyone else was in the 20-35 age bracket, and it was very much a case of "Thursday is the new Friday" - 7.30, lots of people out drinking after work

 

[SillyBill]

£400bn wasted on COVID. £37bn on test and trace alone. Nobody held accountable and everyone of us will suffer with the devastating outcomes (including poorer health outcomes) for this for decades to come. Politicians need to come clean as to what this shocking waste of money means for the future. Pension ages. Taxes. Living standards. Cost of living.

Population continually balloning while GDP/capita and real adjusted wages decreasing, services collapsing under the strain. And we're exporting millionaires faster than any other nation on earth bar the Chinese in the other direction. Over regulated and over taxed. Got a phD and earn over £100k in the UK then face a marginal rate of tax of c. 90% for the next £25k. So many productive people jacking it, or taking their businesses offshore, or retiring it as tax thresholds not moved in years, corp tax up, rates up. Even doctors won't work a 5 day week due to our tax system...

 

[tony84]

Went out for a pint last night. First place was so busy they'd run out of beer (no lager on tap at all, three or four were off). Next pub we couldn't get a seat in. So, my small survey of two pubs close to me suggests the economy is doing fine.

I would love to believe that is a sign of the times. But I really do not think that is the case.
I know a fair few people (socially and through work) who are at best coping, at worst struggling.

 

[Paul Carmen]

£400bn wasted on COVID. £37bn on test and trace alone. Nobody held accountable and everyone of us will suffer with the devastating outcomes (including poorer health outcomes) for this for decades to come. Politicians need to come clean as to what this shocking waste of money means for the future. Pension ages. Taxes. Living standards. Cost of living.

Population continually balloning while GDP/capita and real adjusted wages decreasing, services collapsing under the strain. And we're exporting millionaires faster than any other nation on earth bar the Chinese in the other direction. Over regulated and over taxed. Got a phD and earn over £100k in the UK then face a marginal rate of tax of c. 90% for the next £25k. So many productive people jacking it, or taking their businesses offshore, or retiring it as tax thresholds not moved in years, corp tax up, rates up. Even doctors won't work a 5 day week due to our tax system...

????

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Went out for a pint last night. First place was so busy they'd run out of beer (no lager on tap at all, three or four were off). Next pub we couldn't get a seat in. So, my small survey of two pubs close to me suggests the economy is doing fine.

End of the month payday, first proper blowout after Christmas?

 

[NickGrogan]

Why do our politicians consider spending on public services as money down the drain, rather than as an investment leading to economic growth?

Because when they do spend money it's on projects that cost too much, take too lang and dont lead to economic growth.

Which in a way, means they're right

 

[NickGrogan]

hopefully we'll have a new government and some proper investment

Which party is that?

 

[scstock]

Are we in for a hung parliament, or are Labour going to storm into power, as current polls suggest. If the latter, will the outcome have an adverse effect on your own business, are you already making plans are you battening down the hatches.

The latest prediction from Electoral Calculus shows the Tories being almost wiped out, and Labour with a 260 seat majority. I can't see any way this is going to change significantly before the election has to be called.

I don't see the outcome having much of an effect on my business. As to battening down the hatches, my business thrived during the last Labour government.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

Funnily enough I am quite happy me myself ( I know you dont here this everyday)

There is also a lot of money around I see some very nice cars ,The Market House was packed yesterday my wife and I had squeeze in the corner (she deserves more than this ) This was after a meal in the very packed Merry Harriers with my mother and her partner.
We have had the busiest February ever
So I want things to stay the same
Yes I might have to pay for joint replacements but if the business does enough Ko Jo funds then it wont matter

I vote to make people worse off and I hope it does not effect me

 

[IanSuth]

We don't have enough nurses to staff the NHS, anuthing to do with nurses requiring degrees, having to pay fees, loosing the bursaries they used to receive and having to work for free in hospitals doing 'placements'?

i agree with almost everything you wrote except this which changed 3 yrs ago - nursing and allied professions (OT , Physio, mental health) students now get £5k pa non repayable bursary to cover the fact that with those 1000 hours unpaid placements they are required to take meaning it is harder to do part time work and the extra length terms requiring larger uni accommodation costs.

They can also theoretically claim back reasonable travel expenses to placements but the process is so labyrinthine most give up - my physio student daughter got her money back for her July placement travel last week.

 

[Newchodge]

i agree with almost everything you wrote except this which changed 3 yrs ago - nursing and allied professions (OT , Physio, mental health) students now get £5k pa non repayable bursary to cover the fact that with those 1000 hours unpaid placements they are required to take meaning it is harder to do part time work and the extra length terms requiring larger uni accommodation costs.

They can also theoretically claim back reasonable travel expenses to placements but the process is so labyrinthine most give up - my physio student daughter got her money back for her July placement travel last week.

The previous bursary, cancelled by the Tories from 2017, included a great deal mor thanis currently available. If anyone is interested the details are here, but they are a bit turgid to read! https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-bursary-scheme-rules-2016

 

[IanSuth]

The previous bursary, cancelled by the Tories from 2017, included a great deal mor thanis currently available. If anyone is interested the details are here, but they are a bit turgid to read! https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-bursary-scheme-rules-2016

I know it is not as good but i wanted to point out what it is

Additionally most dedicated nursing accommodation at hospitals has been sold off so no cheap accommodation when you start.

A degree qualified physio starts on band 5 (and pay is static for first 2 years) that is £28k (£32k in highest costs areas, £30.8k mid tier, £29.4k lower HCAS which is places like Wokingham - Reading in Berkshire receives no uplift)

 

[Newchodge]

Because when they do spend money it's on projects that cost too much, take too lang and dont lead to economic growth.

Which in a way, means they're right

That is true of the big stuff, but paying nurses properly is an investment that would give back something like a 4X multiplier.

 

[IanSuth]

basically it is because politicians work on a 4 or 5 year cycle max and all these things are more longterm - they don't care that things would be better in 10 years, they care whether they keep their job next election and that is as far as they look.

It is the issue with career politicians rather than professionals/ex industrialists/union leaders/etc going into politics

Even if they decided on bringing in student bursaries for nurses today - it is too late to affect Sep24 entry (deadline has passed for UCAS forms) so you might get more Sep 25 entry, 3 year course they graduate Jun 2028 and enter workforce, that is 4.5 years, too late for the next election cycle let alone this

 

[Paul Carmen]

Which party is that?

None of them apparently, after the row back on the green deal. I'm in the anyone but Tories camp personally though...

 

[Newchodge]

None of them apparently, after the row back on the green deal. I'm in the anyone but Tories camp personally though...

I was. I am now in the anyone but Tories and Tories in all but name, usually called the Labour party, camp. I so hope for a hung parliament.

 

[tony84]

Can anyone tell me anything that has improved in 14 years?

 

[Newchodge]

Can anyone tell me anything that has improved in 14 years?

Bank profits, the bank balances of the top 1%, the bank balances of many MPs.

 

[japancool]

Can anyone tell me anything that has improved in 14 years?

Taylor Swift.

 

[MikeJ]

End of the month payday, first proper blowout after Christmas?

You know, I never think of that. I've never been in a position where I've had to wait for my next salary to arrive in order to do something, I've always budgeted in a much more prudent way. I used to live round the corner from a Chinese takeaway, and that was always heaving on the last Friday of every month.

 

[WaveJumper]

Can anyone tell me anything that has improved in 14 years?

mmmm I am still trying to think of something

 

[tony84]

Taylor Swift.

Good shout! Labour cant take the kudos for that can they!

 

[Jeff FV]

Can anyone tell me anything that has improved in 14 years?

The only positive thing the Tory government has done in the last 14 years is legalise same sex marriages. For this I give them kudos.

Everything else is worse

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

I wonder how many people here are doing OK and still moaning about the government

 

[DontAsk]

I wonder how many people here are doing OK and still moaning about the government

 

[Newchodge]

I wonder how many people here are doing OK and still moaning about the government

You can be doing OK but still be appalled at the destitution that exists for far too many people in this country.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

You can be doing OK but still be appalled at the destitution that exists for far too many people in this country.

I dont know about that the bi product could be me being worse off and we cant have that

 

[tony84]

I wonder how many people here are doing OK and still moaning about the government

On a personal level, I am doing ok. But that does not mean the country is in a good place.

For the level of takes we pay, I do not think it is unreasonable to expect the national debt to be manageable, have a decent education system and a functioning nhs.

 

[tony84]

Sorry, that should say the level of tax.

 

[Newchodge]

On a personal level, I am doing ok. But that does not mean the country is in a good place.

For the level of takes we pay, I do not think it is unreasonable to expect the national debt to be manageable, have a decent education system and a functioning nhs.

The national debt is manageable, or it would be if the Bank of England (wholly owned by the state), the Treasury and the ONS did not lie abouit it.

For example, part of the national debt is money placed by banks on deposit at the Bank of England as part of financial responsibility rules following the 2008 crash. That money was given to the banks by the Bank of England in 2008, known as Quantitative Easing. Despite the government having given that money to the banks it is considered as part of our national debt and we pay the banks interest on it. We don't have to pay interest on it.

Much of the money counted as national debt is owed to the Bank of England. In other words it is money that the state 'owes' itself. How is that a debt?

Much of the debt is money invested in government bonds. I am a creditor as I own premium bonds. The government does not want to repay that debt, and I don't want them to.

There are other issues. For example the national debt is expressed as a proportion of GDP. We have been subject to major austerity since at least 2010. That meant the government spent a great deal less, reducing GDP so increasing the debt:GDP ratio.

I agree that we should, as one of the wealthiest countries in the world, have a proper infrastructure, education system, health system. justice system, police service, care provision for those who need it. But we don't.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

The Tories are 27% behind labour in one of the Polls announced yesterday.

What are the odds of Trump back in the White House and Boris back to face Starmer in the election?