Gaming computers, graphic cards, etc.

[UKSBD]

My lad likes his gaming, not a serious gamer but likes playing Destiny, Overwatch, etc.

He's moaning that is current PC (especially the graphics card) aren't good enough to play the games.
(It's a 5 year old HP which cost about £400 when I bought it)

What sort of price range should I be looking at for something that will be suitable for him?

Looking at some graphics cards it appears £250 is the minimum you should spend really for good gaming experience, is that true or are cheaper ones more than suitable?

Budget is about £700 but want to spend less if suitable for him

Any idea, suggestions, etc.

 

[UKSBD]

Just to add
This is the sort of graphics card he talks about - https://www.overclockers.co.uk/giga...ddr5-pci-express-graphics-card-gx-18k-gi.html

Do I need to get something like that or is it OTT

 

[Mr D]

For a gaming system? 3 or 4 grand.
And make it VR capable.

However for a decent system for playing games a similar price to what you paid years ago will work and can upgrade bits as needed over next few years.
Could upgrade in bits with your current system but would effectively be replacing all the components, would not bother on an old system.

The graphics cards you see today at 250 will be a lot cheaper in a year or two. And will usually fit systems sold today without much trouble.

 

[alan1302]

Just to add
This is the sort of graphics card he talks about - https://www.overclockers.co.uk/giga...ddr5-pci-express-graphics-card-gx-18k-gi.html

Do I need to get something like that or is it OTT

OTT

Can get a whole decent PC made:

https://www.wepc.com/builds/best-gaming-pc-under-500/

Obviously you can spend a lot more but can get decent gaming PCs now for a lot les than the £3/4k Mr D thinks!

 

[Mr D]

This is a nice system.
https://www.dell.com/en-uk/shop/des...r-edition/spd/alienware-area51-r6/d00aw51r618

£3,899.

Yes there are much cheaper systems that will do. Heck, a £200 system will probably be more powerful by quite a bit now than a £400 system 5 years ago was.
Gaming machines tend to cost and you pay considerably for the high level (which isn't the same as high quality) components.

 

[UKSBD]

OTT

Can get a whole decent PC made:

https://www.wepc.com/builds/best-gaming-pc-under-500/

Obviously you can spend a lot more but can get decent gaming PCs now for a lot les than the £3/4k Mr D thinks!

He says that's just below what he says is minimum :-(

That's i3 he want i5
Card is 1050 Ti HE WANTS 1060 Ti
That's standard hard drive he wants SSD

I configured this - https://www.overclockers.co.uk/ocuk...G2u1.bmhH2u1-bmhI2u1@bmhJ2vx5bmhK2/Z~btlM2#?2

Just need to see what I can lose to knock £250 off it :-(

 

[UKSBD]

The graphics cards you see today at 250 will be a lot cheaper in a year or two. And will usually fit systems sold today without much trouble.

I think the ones I'm looking at are the 2 year old ones

 

[Cobby]

Get him an i5, 8gb, SSD and the GFX card should be minimum 980gtx; if you get him a decent 1080p monitor then he'll be able to manage most games pretty well at 1080p and there's no need to go super high-cost on the GFX card.

If he really likes competitive gaming, also get a decent corded mouse like a razer or logitech.

Also consider second hand from early adopters...

 

[UKSBD]

Get him an i5, 8gb, SSD and the GFX card should be minimum 980gtx; if you get him a decent 1080p monitor then he'll be able to manage most games pretty well at 1080p and there's no need to go super high-cost on the GFX card.

If he really likes competitive gaming, also get a decent corded mouse like a razer or logitech.

Also consider second hand from early adopters...

That's basically what I was looking at.

I tried the configurator here - https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/computers/intel-sff-gaming/
and it still comes out at about a £1000 :-(

Edit to add: and that's without monitor or keyboard

 

[Mr D]

Perhaps get something basic (can get a LOT cheaper than a grand) and then upgrade memory, graphics card etc.
In 3 weeks is Black Friday, some deals could be had that may not be available over the next week.

 

[UKSBD]

I've got down below £800 now - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Freshtech-Intel-2400Mhz-Vanguard-Windows/dp/B01BW19BAA/

It really is a minefield looking for PC's
So easy as well to start at one figure and change this, change that and end up with a much higher figure :-(

 

[WhizzPeople]

I am sure for a gaming PC with a decent graphics card, you have to spend more than £1000. Last year, I bought a PC featuring 1080 ti 11 GB over £2k from scan.co.uk - try the website with the different price range.

 

[UKSBD]

That's the problem - Other people have different opinions on what's decent.

He only plays on things like Destiny, Overwatch, etc. and doesn't need it to be VR compatible or anything.

It reminds me of when I bought my 1st laptop, you start at about £500 but as you go down the list adding things that are only about £20/50 more you end up spending £1000 :-(

 

[Inva]

1K should be more than enough for the box. Buy parts and have the shop assemble them, as that is cheaper and also better.

Cheap version can be a Ryzen APU. Would not buy Intel CPU, too expensive. GTX 1050 TI/1060 is enough, more is paying for bragging rights.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, if you do decide on Intel (not recommended!!!) do not buy anything less than i7 as they've got single threads per core which sucks big time. Ryzen 1600 is the best as it's got the good cooler, or 2400G with the APU, saves you from buying a graphics card but it's only for light gaming.

 

[Inva]

If you need help PM me

 

[Cobby]

1K should be more than enough for the box. Buy parts and have the shop assemble them, as that is cheaper and also better.

Cheap version can be a Ryzen APU. Would not buy Intel CPU, too expensive. GTX 1050 TI/1060 is enough, more is paying for bragging rights.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, if you do decide on Intel (not recommended!!!) do not buy anything less than i7 as they've got single threads per core which sucks big time. Ryzen 1600 is the best as it's got the good cooler, or 2400G with the APU, saves you from buying a graphics card but it's only for light gaming.

It's been a while since I spec'd any systems so I hadn't seen the Ryzens and they're well regarded for mid-tier stuff.

For a mid-level gaming experience, the 2400G will run a 1080p monitor at mid-detail without the need for the additional graphics card, and any older games will run at higher details quite sufficiently.

Slamming in a decent nVidia card will add an extra £250 to your build but that's 4k gaming sorted for a couple of years and if you're going to do that, you might as well splash out for an 8th gen i7 as well to balance out the extra power, but that's pushing your budget over £1000

Also note that paying a bit extra for a decent PSU can eliminate a lot of transient problems with other components, but it depends on what your system is.

For all hardware (1080p monitor, kb, mouse, case, mb, psu, cpu/gfx, ram, ssd, and a set of 2.1 speakers) I'd say about £800-£850 and that'll do you for 2 or 3 years. Don't forget to put Windows10 on top of that, but there are budget routes available for that, too.

 

[UKSBD]

I'm I understanding correctly?

The Ryzen APU is a combination of processor and graphics card?

So if you get a good APU you don't need an extra graphics card

If so, why are they so cheap?

 

[UKSBD]

For my £700 budget
If I go for a Ryzen 2600 and add in a 1050 Ti does this look reasonable

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/sca...-4gb-evga-gtx-1050-ti-sc-240gb-ssd-1tb-win-10

 

[Cobby]

The Ryzen APU is a combination of processor and graphics card?

If it has a 'G' at the end, yes, it includes an integrated graphics chip. Otherwise it's just an AMD processor.

So if you get a good APU you don't need an extra graphics card
If so, why are they so cheap?

There's a very big discussion behind this, but essentially AMD are Intel's competitor in the desktop CPU market and offer a better value product. They have a different architecture so excel at different things but for a mid-level gaming PC it's not really going to matter. Bear in mind that the integrated GFX won't be as good as a dedicated card (hence the cost) and you can't upgrade it without swapping out the CPU as a unit.

For my £700 budget
If I go for a Ryzen 2600 and add in a 1050 Ti does this look reasonable

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/sca...-4gb-evga-gtx-1050-ti-sc-240gb-ssd-1tb-win-10

There's a lot of messing about in the margins you could do to try and tweak the system (e.g. adding/subtracting minor increments to the parts) but I can't see any big gotcha moments in that. With the 1050Ti and the Ryzen, your CPU will bottleneck before the graphics card does but for mid-level 1080p gaming it shouldn't be a big issue.

@Inva ?

 

[Inva]

I'm I understanding correctly?

The Ryzen APU is a combination of processor and graphics card?

So if you get a good APU you don't need an extra graphics card

If so, why are they so cheap?

It is correct, an APU is a combination of CPU and "integrated" graphics card. Intel has these too but their integrated graphics are very weak.

I would not call them cheap, as you can only do light gaming with them because of heat issues. They only seem cheap because ******-miners have been hoarding graphics cards for mining and their price has skyrocketed in the last years.

Also you are limited to 4cores/8threads as there is not enough physical space to fit in more with integrated graphics and from what i read it will remain so for the at least the near future. Another thing, a proper graphics card will have its own RAM, while an APU will use the system's RAM.

Btw Ryzen stuff are generally a lot cheaper than Intel (and better?). With Intel you also have to buy a cooler and generally you get less cores with higher clock. The higher clock could be better for gaming but it will have lower performance if you have a lot of programs open.

For my £700 budget
If I go for a Ryzen 2600 and add in a 1050 Ti does this look reasonable

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/sca...-4gb-evga-gtx-1050-ti-sc-240gb-ssd-1tb-win-10

I would go for Ryzen 1600, last i checked (2 months ago) was still by far the most VFM CPU. Performance is similar with 2600 and it has the better cooler. I would skip the 1050 Ti and buy either 1050 or 1060 as the price difference between 1050 Ti and 1060 is not that great.

 

[Inva]

Oh and i forgot, you do not have to replace the whole CPU to upgrade the integrated graphics/ You can just install a standalone graphics card and it will work

 

[UKSBD]

I would skip the 1050 Ti and buy either 1050 or 1060 as the price difference between 1050 Ti and 1060 is not that great.

thanks, I've read in a few places that the 1050 Ti is better than the 1060 unless you get the largest 1060 (6GB I think)

Is scan a good place to buy from?
Most their reviews seem OK, but they do appear to have a few bad ones too.

A little more confident now about getting an adequate system for the £700 price mark

 

[Cobby]

Btw Ryzen stuff are generally a lot cheaper than Intel (and better?). With Intel you also have to buy a cooler and generally you get less cores with higher clock. The higher clock could be better for gaming but it will have lower performance if you have a lot of programs open.

A mid-range/casual user isn't going to notice much between the two other than price. Intel perform much better thermally (lower power usage too) and the stock cooler is more than adequate in almost all case layouts but in this instance it's another budget bump that probably isn't worth it.

I would go for Ryzen 1600, last i checked (2 months ago) was still by far the most VFM CPU. Performance is similar with 2600 and it has the better cooler. I would skip the 1050 Ti and buy either 1050 or 1060 as the price difference between 1050 Ti and 1060 is not that great.

Sounds about right.

 

[Cobby]

thanks, I've read in a few places that the 1050 Ti is better than the 1060 unless you get the largest 1060 (6GB I think)

You can lose yourself in the minutiae of graphics card comparisons but unless you're looking for a significant bump in performance it's all pretty marginal. Just go for a well reviewed card and be happy at the time you're saving by not worrying about it.

Is scan a good place to buy from?
Most their reviews seem OK, but they do appear to have a few bad ones too.

I've been using Scan since like '99 I think. I've had a couple of bad experiences but they have never been what I'd put down to malice. Also, angry people are far more likely to leave feedback...

 

[UKSBD]

Thanks all.

A lot more clearer in my mind of what to go for now and pretty sure I can get it at the £700 mark

Scan is looking favourite for where I will buy from just wait until Black Friday now to see if they have any good offers on.

 

[The Byre]

Scan is an excellent company, esp. for custom built high-end PCs.

Your son should not be playing games. Tell him to read a book and not waste his life and rot his brain in front of some stupid game.

Gaming leads to depression and more dependency on gaming. I have seen people lose everything they have and even their careers and family through gaming. It is an addiction every bit as destructive as gambling or hard liquor.

 

[Cobby]

Your son should not be playing games. Tell him to read a book and not waste his life and rot his brain in front of some stupid game.

Gaming leads to depression and more dependency on gaming. I have seen people lose everything they have and even their careers and family through gaming. It is an addiction every bit as destructive as gambling or hard liquor.

Gaming is a fun, entertaining activity that can be social and educational but as contemporary activities go is subject to the same generational doom-mongering there has always been; once it was music, then television, then movies...

Moderation in all things.

 

[alan1302]

Gaming leads to depression and more dependency on gaming. I have seen people lose everything they have and even their careers and family through gaming. It is an addiction every bit as destructive as gambling or hard liquor.

So you should not do anything that you can become addicted to?

 

[UKSBD]

In the Byre's day his elders were probably telling him not to listen to that dreadful Mr. Presley, it's the devils music and will corrupt his mind ;-)

 

[Inva]

thanks, I've read in a few places that the 1050 Ti is better than the 1060 unless you get the largest 1060 (6GB I think)

Not true, 1060 is of course the better card. RAM on the card is not very important, it does not affect performance, it just indicates the amount of data (textures etc) that can be loaded in memory.

A mid-range/casual user isn't going to notice much between the two other than price. Intel perform much better thermally (lower power usage too) and the stock cooler is more than adequate in almost all case layouts but in this instance it's another budget bump that probably isn't worth it.

I don't know about thermals but i have no reason to think the Ryzens perform worse. Oftentimes it comes down to thermal paste tbh. Regarding power usage, it depends on the processor but 65W for mainstream Ryzens and 95W in the enthousiast/prosumer bracket is generally on par with Intel equivalents. Intel's coolers are a joke though, i think they are only fit for light office work. At least some Ryzens have a decent cooler. And most importantly, being about 50% cheaper counts a lot i think.

Your son should not be playing games. Tell him to read a book and not waste his life and rot his brain in front of some stupid game.

If they play bulsheet like GTA yes, but there are intellectual games out there.

 

[UKSBD]

I ended up going for this - https://www.scan.co.uk/products/sca...-4gb-evga-gtx-1050-ti-sc-240gb-ssd-1tb-win-10

Very tempted to keep adding more but decided to stick to my guns with the £700 budget

Also got a new monitor - https://www.scan.co.uk/products/24-...n-panel-1ms-100m1-350-cd-m2-167m-colours-dp-h

It means I can set his old system up in the office as a back up

 

[billybob99]

I have seen people die from smoking, they know they can die, so why are they smoking?

Interesting thread tho, going to build something from Scan.

 

[UKSBD]

Interesting thread tho, going to build something from Scan.

Great service from them so far (assuming it turns up tomorrow)

Ordered it Friday, they tell to when payment has been Okayed, when it's been picked packed ready to go, when it's been dispatched, when delivery is expected.

Got a text and email from them this evening saying it will be here tomorrow and I will receive info on the 1 hour time slot allocated to me in the morning, also got tracking number so I can see where they are

 

[billybob99]

Great service from them so far (assuming it turns up tomorrow)

Ordered it Friday, they tell to when payment has been Okayed, when it's been picked packed ready to go, when it's been dispatched, when delivery is expected.

Got a text and email from them this evening saying it will be here tomorrow and I will receive info on the 1 hour time slot allocated to me in the morning, also got tracking number so I can see where they are

I've heard good things about them, usually just bought off-the-shelf gaming rigs from eBuyer over the last several years.

Just gotta find a way to get the maths to add up as the keyboard eats up £149 of the budget.

 

[Inva]

I ended up going for this - https://www.scan.co.uk/products/sca...-4gb-evga-gtx-1050-ti-sc-240gb-ssd-1tb-win-10

Very tempted to keep adding more but decided to stick to my guns with the £700 budget

Also got a new monitor - https://www.scan.co.uk/products/24-...n-panel-1ms-100m1-350-cd-m2-167m-colours-dp-h

It means I can set his old system up in the office as a back up

I think it's a pretty good choice for the money. But remember that picking parts and having the shop/someone assemble it, almost always results in better hardware at lower cost.

 

[UKSBD]

But remember that picking parts and having the shop/someone assemble it, almost always results in better hardware at lower cost.

I kept doing that but even making a system almost exactly the same as that pre-configured one came out more expensive.

 

[Inva]

If you do it like that and shop around, you will almost always find most parts at a discount. Something somewhere is at -50%, you can buy it and have it delivered to you. Do not buy from the same shop, obviously they won't have everything on discount.

Pre-assembled systems must also make the assembler's profit, which usually comes at the expense of the less sexy components. While people ask "how many GHz?", "how many GB?" etc, no one ever asks "what's the energy efficiency of <20% output on the power supply?" (very important stat btw). So usually you end up getting a fair amount of "budget" category components in the build.

 

[UKSBD]

It arrived this morning, PC in the usual size box, inside another box twice as big with masses of packing between the two

They obviously know what the delivery drivers are like

Monitor was just in normal box, but had a carrying handle so the drivers don't have to punch holes in the boxes to make them easier to carry like they normally do.

Haven't set it up yet, but so far really impressed with Scan.

 

[Cobby]

Not true, 1060 is of course the better card. RAM on the card is not very important, it does not affect performance, it just indicates the amount of data (textures etc) that can be loaded in memory.

Depending on bus layout the RAM amount can be a big deal (badly laid out cards perform cheap and dirty tricks that cause problems). For mid-level gaming the 2gb is fine, 4gb is more than adequate.

I don't know about thermals

Oh okay, well, Intel perform better thermally (being generally more power efficient) and their stock coolers are absolutely fine.

Anyway UKSBD, glad you got a system you were happy with. Hope you enjoy it!

 

[Inva]

Depending on bus layout the RAM amount can be a big deal (badly laid out cards perform cheap and dirty tricks that cause problems). For mid-level gaming the 2gb is fine, 4gb is more than adequate.

That's hardly anything to do with the amount of RAM though, isn't it?
GTX1070 8GB vs GTX1080 8GB ...one costs ~50% more than the other.

Oh okay, well, Intel perform better thermally (being generally more power efficient) and their stock coolers are absolutely fine.

I don't thing power efficiency is better on the Intels now. Ryzen and Intel lines are on par at around 65/95 watts. Intel stock coolers are not at all absolutely fine, i don't think! Unless all you do is low powered stuff.