For those who still believe O365 is just Office 2016

[ffox]

Keep in mind that I don't sell O365. I came across this little video in my morning search for what's new. It's interesting, but falls into the category of using the wrong USP. See my comment below.

 

[ffox]

My comment.
Very snappy video. But, every week I talk to many potential O365 customers in the SME sector who will say ‘more Microsoft bloat ware’ and ‘most of this can be done, and is being done, with none MS apps’. Lots of useful functionality ‘in-the-box’ is great, but it’s not a USP. Office 365 has a unique feature that not even G-Suite can match. SharePoint on-line delivers the facility for the SME business to realise a full information strategy that is relevant. And it delivers this with code free development potential.

Far better to start a new customer with the vision of a three to five year strategy for information management than to offer a box full of goodies. But, that’s just my opinion.

 

[fisicx]

The problem with that video is it's just a lot of buzzwords and took forever to get to the point. I've got skype for business and I've got Google docs. That's all I need a sole trader.

As you suggest, O365 doesn't do a good job of selling the benefits. I don't care about what you call the various components, what it should be showing me is how I can create a document, schedule a meeting and collaborate to add elements to the document and then email a link to everyone so they can access the document. Which as I said in another thread I find far more complicated than it should be.

 

[ffox]

I don't care about what you call the various components, what it should be showing me is how I can create a document, schedule a meeting and collaborate to add elements to the document and then email a link to everyone so they can access the document.

Absolutely.

Office 365 has a unique feature that not even G-Suite can match. SharePoint on-line delivers the facility for the SME business to realise a full information strategy that is relevant. And it delivers this with code free development potential.

Is what O365 is all about

Which as I said in another thread I find far more complicated than it should be.

Done correctly with an eye on strategy for the whole business it becomes far, far simpler than it is with a whole bunch of separate apps.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

What percentage of total items available do you think the small business will ever use in the next say 5 years
The only people who may want to use these functions fully are Marketing companies trying to impress clients with clever presentations rather than two pages of A4

 

[fisicx]

Done correctly with an eye on strategy for the whole business it becomes far, far simpler than it is with a whole bunch of separate apps.

And that the whole point. You know how to set it up correctly and take advantage of its various functions but many people would struggle.

And because people have had such a bad experience with the W10 update fiasco, MS has got to work hard to regain people's trust enough that they would be willing to pay monthly for something they don't think they need.

 

[garyk]

I skipped most of it, completely boring and uncompelling.

The fact is users don't need 1001 bells and whistles. Software companies mistakenly believe that more features = better, they don't.

When developing Gmail google often took features *out* and left them out if no-one complained. Dave McClure (one of silicon valleys most prolific VCs) has often spouted the mantra 'take s*it* out'.

Most users probably use 15-20% of the features in Word and Excel.

O365 is not a silver bullet. The old saying 'if all you have is a hammer then every problem looks like a nail' springs to mind.

 

[ffox]

What percentage of total items available do you think the small business will ever use in the next say 5 years

Chris. Right now people are using Skype, Facebook, twitter and a whole host of other unconnected applications for business. I mean real day to day business and not just hype. In five years - who knows?
But, my point in posting is that the 'bag of goodies' is not the USP. So far as the SME sector is concerned the hype actually gets in the way of what MS are doing with this. Smart use of SharePoint on-line empowers an MD, or CEO to design IT for his/her business without huge expense. And on that subject open source software is not 'free' when the data it processes needs to be integrated into the business model.

 

[ffox]

And that the whole point. You know how to set it up correctly and take advantage of its various functions but many people would struggle.

No they wouldn't. But, I do agree that most people are so put off by the hype that they never bother going to look at what can be achieved. BTW, I'm working on a series of simple YouTube vids to illustrate how easy it all is. Watch this space.

 

[The Byre]

The fact is users don't need 1001 bells and whistles. Software companies mistakenly believe that more features = better, they don't.

This!

SharePoint on-line delivers the facility for the SME business to realise a full information strategy that is relevant. And it delivers this with code free development potential.

followed by

a three to five year strategy for information management

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about! If you guys would just speak English for a change, instead of management-consultant-speak, you might just get someone to listen!

 

[ffox]

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about! If you guys would just speak English for a change, instead of management-consultant-speak, you might just get someone to listen!

Hahaha - touché

Okay - why do we use software in business? In fact why do we use computers?
Well, that would be to make things easier. But, but buy any piece of software and the first thing you do is change the way you want to run your business to suit the software. It's either that or spend dosh to make the software fit your business. Add more apps, add more change and more tailoring.
Now take an idea of how you want the business to run and shape what's on the computer, without expensive developers, to work data and information the way you want. - That's SharePoint.

All you need is a clear idea of what you want to achieve.

 

[fisicx]

That's not how people think at all.

Bob the builder want to get leads, create quotes, send and follow up and then once the job's done send the invoice.

So he will google 'app to create quotes' or whatever. He doesn't want to see the word 'sharepoint' he wants to see 'quote creator' in the SERPs.. This is where the whole O365 thing falls over. It focuses too much on the processes not the solutions.

Bob the Builder can get software that is purpose built for quote and invoice creation. He doesn't need to set anything up, it works right out the box and does exactly what he wants.

 

[ffox]

So he will google 'app to create quotes' or whatever. He doesn't want to see the word 'sharepoint' he wants to see 'quote creator' in the SERPs.. This is where the whole O365 thing falls over. It focuses too much on the processes not the solutions.

I agree. O365 is not marketed to the SME sector in any sensible way. That's why the take-up is, so far, based on low capital cost start and cheap cloud storage. Most SMEs who have purchased O365 don't ever look at the SharePoint possibilities they already own. Looking instead for what Google search turns up in the way of free, or low cost, app solutions to solve specific business issues.

Then they end up with a large number of disconnected applications, duplicated data and substantial data coordination problems

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

Many business owners, self employed, start ups etc that I have met spend £££ on computers, servers and software, only to never use the full capabilities of their investment, writing a few letters, a rare presentation, browsing and sending/receiving emails. You do not need the latest hardware and software for this.

I now mostly recommend people not to invest until they really need it!

Re the video, it is selling the sausage, not the sizzle!

 

[fisicx]

Then they end up with a large number of disconnected applications, duplicated data and substantial data coordination problems

Do they really?

There are loads of CRM solutions you can get for small businesses that integrate well with a whole range of application.

 

[garyk]

Agree with @fisicx that *used* to be the case. I was doing bespoke software dev. for 20 years and alot of that work was systems integration. Now with the rise of SaaS and APIs hooking disparate systems together has never been easier.

The problem with a one size fits all approach is because your customer is everyone your customer is no-one. CASE tools promised to make programmers redundant and they came to prominence in the 90s and that never happened.

 

[ffox]

Many business owners, self employed, start ups etc that I have met spend £££ on computers, servers and software, only to never use the full capabilities of their investment, writing a few letters, a rare presentation, browsing and sending/receiving emails. You do not need the latest hardware and software for this.

You make the case for Office 365 perfectly. The whole suite can be driven from a £60 tablet. Add a monitor and KB if you want a desktop experience. You can do the same with G-Suite, similar price but no SharePoint, so somewhat less scaleable. Why does anyone want to spend more?

 

[Jeff FV]

What does it (O365) do?

 

[ffox]

Do they really?

There are loads of CRM solutions you can get for small businesses that integrate well with a whole range of application.

Yes they do. And in addition they end up buying hardware they don't need to install the software on - please see the post above from @consultant - his findings are the same as my own.

I ask again why would anyone recommend a business to buy more than they need?

The problem with a one size fits all approach is because your customer is everyone your customer is no-one.

Not really interested in finding customers. Just trying to convey that the current reality is - you don't need a computer loaded with unconnected applications to achieve the business function.

SharePoint is not a 'one size fits all'. It's a platform that, with a little learning, can be shaped to do what you and your business need

 

[ffox]

What does it (O365) do?

A basic subscription (£5 per user per month) delivers SaaS Word processing, Spreadsheet and presentation software. TB of cloud storage, etc, etc. It's all in the boring video above. What that fails to say is that you can very simply construct DB style lists of customers, suppliers, your shopping list if you want to and tie it all together neatly. You can also store emails and other electronically received documents, plus scanned paper documents in libraries of your design for later retrieval. The search functions are phenomenal.

Your customer list can become the core of a CRM designed by you for your business, that can feed Sales Order Processing, that can feed invoicing etc.

 

[fisicx]

And all that is great. Except it doesn't come out the box ready to roll. I can go get something like this for the same money: https://www.reallysimplesystems.com/

I tried it yesterday and there is nothing to set up. It's a ready to roll CRM. But O365 isn't:

Your customer list can become the core of a CRM designed by you for your business, that can feed Sales Order Processing, that can feed invoicing etc.

You need to create everything from scratch in O365. Small businesses don't want to do that, they want it to just work.

O365 is a great package but it need setting up to deliver anything that a CRM does already. And as already said, O365 does far more than most people ever need. It's full of features a small business will rarely if ever use.

 

[ffox]

I tried it yesterday and there is nothing to set up. It's a ready to roll CRM. But O365 isn't:

You illustrate perfectly the point of using SharePoint on-line. I'm sure that Really Simple Systems Is grand software. But, their landing page says -

Making CRM Simple
Easy to use Cloud CRM for B2B
Designed for small businesses
Train your staff in minutes

So, you take what they offer and modify what you do to fit the software.

They also say -
Custom CRM
Customise to your business needs
Create custom fields and tables
Edit fields to easily find your data

Okay, you can tailor it to suit your actual needs, just as you would with Office 365. The user input is similar for both systems.

But Office 365 is not just a CRM, once you have a licence you can also build in SOP, Invoicing, stock control, etc, etc. No additional software, no additional cost.

 

[The Byre]

You guys don't seem to begin to even want to understand how an SME functions! Seriously!

Let's pretend that we are roofers. Dad was a roofer, I am (pretending) to be a roofer and my sons are (pretending) to be roofers. We are all playing at being roofers.

Mrs Muggins calls and asks for an estimate for a new roof over her extension. I go there, I look at the existing roof and come up with figures for taking the old roof down, hiring scaffolding, timber and insulation, slates and all the rest. Based on years of experience, I write down the various parts of the estimate, including labour, on a piece of paper, using a stubby pencil and give that to the company secretary, telephonist, job coordinator and bookkeeper - aka wife!

She fires up any old word processor and whacks off a letter and estimate to Mrs Muggins. Often it will be an older version of Word, or one of the dozens of freeware WP out there. She uses an existing template, so the whole operation takes her five minutes.

The work gets done, Mrs Muggins pays and all the various bits of paper go into a box file marked 2017 and a suitable entry or series of entries are made into QuickBooks or Simply Books or whatever they are using.

This family of roofers does not have a problem - yet various purveyors of dubious software packages keep offering us all 'solutions'! Solutions to problems we do not have!

Now, I have all sorts of problems in my life. I have all sorts of problems with my business. Some problems are big, like long-term stuff such as turnover, funding new projects, expansion plans hitting silly and unexpected difficulties - stuff like that. Some are small problems like how the bloody hell do I get the sat-nav on my car to shut up (and do I really have to RTFM???) and why is one of my dogs limping?

I have yet to find a software package that gets planning permission through faster. I have yet to find a software that makes a key subcontractor less of a total prat. I have never found any software that stops Mrs X from looking at her f***ing cellphone every two minutes. I absolutely have never come across any software that gets a judge to find in our favour in a dispute over contract completions or some daft property dispute. Where is the software that gets the bloke (who wants his coffee with milk and one sugar) that was supposed to be here at ten this morning to service some equipment, actually turn up?

These are the Real World problems!

This forum is full of posts from people with real problems (usually of their own making, but that is a separate topic!) but you have to search far and wide to find a single problem that is solved by a software solution.

Were I to be running a medium sized manufacturing enterprise with between 100 and 500 full-time and permanent employees, yes, then I would be talking to IBM, IGS or SAP about proper software integration of all the various processes, QC, marketing, P&L and process reporting tasks involved in an ERP package (Enterprise Resource Planning for those of you playing the 'Home Game').

But I ain't, so I won't!
____________________

Well, it's gone eleven-fifteen and that bloke still hasn't turned up! I'll try to see if I can make sense of the handbook that came with the sat-nav. It starts off by thanking me for choosing the RNS 315 and begins by telling me how to select and store my favourite radio stations.

Apparently, it is the 'complete navigation and entertainment solution' - so much for RTFM! I shall follow Scrooge's example and retire to Bedlam!

 

[Chris Ashdown]

So you did not buy the all in pc -mac-crm sat nav then
No wonder you feel the way you do

 

[fisicx]

Okay, you can tailor it to suit your actual needs, just as you would with Office 365. The user input is similar for both systems.

But O365 doesn't say 'CRM' on the box so it won't even get considered by Mr Byre the Roofer.

And that's the problem MS has and will always have. Windows is what comes with my shiny new PC. I can browse the internet, look at pictures of my family and send emails. And for 99% of all users that's about all they ever use it for. Telling anyone that they can use Sharepoint to look after their letters and bank statements is like telling the Plumber he can use a flange grubber to knurl his rarb-setter. It's just gobbledygook to them. But if the box said: 'File manager - store and look after all your documents' then they might understand. Unless you tell them it's in the cloud and their eyes will glaze over again.

 

[Alan]

Office 365 has a unique feature that not even G-Suite can match. SharePoint on-line

Sharepoint online looks remarkably like a collaborative online portal / intranet. Google always has had this, in Google Sites. Have you seen the new edition of Google Sites. Would be good to get an unbiased blow by blow comparison.

 

[Alan]

I like @The Byre scenario and get the point about solving problems.

Software does actually solve real headaches. for instance, for me, doing my VAT return is made really simple and painless by my accounting software - something it wasn't when I used to used spreadsheets ( or in fact when I started business - a hand written accounts book, I remember the pain )

Also, having a poor memory I find my 'help desk ticket' software invaluable in making up for me not recalling that a customer needs something sorted.

What I'm saying is that there are problems that software can help with for Bob the builder or Byre the Roofer.

Whilst clearly a business with 100 employees needs processes - and as such software can esnure / automate those processes, it doesn't mean that companies with 4 staff don't need processes and that those processes cannot benefit from automation.

So Byre the Roofer expands a little and now has 4 staff and 4 vans, jobs come in ( from his excellently converting website built by @fisicx ) and Mrs Huggins schedules the jobs, each job gets allocated and completed, and a written report is created and the jobs invoiced. This can all be done on paper, but with mobile technology and a few simple 'systems' the paper flow can easily automated and streamlined. Why - well that depends, it could be for risks, control, compliance, costs or customer satisfaction.

 

[ffox]

She fires up any old word processor and whacks off a letter and estimate to Mrs Muggins. Often it will be an older version of Word, or one of the dozens of freeware WP out there. She uses an existing template, so the whole operation takes her five minutes.

Sadly though the scenario in 2017 is that the old word processor doesn't get fired up until around eight pm. This is because Mr Byre The Roofer's business doesn't make enough to pay two wages so Mrs Byre works all day as a Dr Receptionist.
Mr Byre has had a full day 'on the tools' and just wants to eat his tea and crash out in the arm chair, but he can't because he has to do an estimate for Mrs Muggins. It's either that or take the money earning time out of the next day to do it.
Mr and Mrs Byre still have to own the word processor.

The 21st century option is to have the whole thing in the cloud and for Mr Byre make updates across the day on his 7 inch Android tablet.

Seriously. I needed a CH boiler repair last October and the delightful young fella did the whole thing from phone calls, to texts, to email, to diagnostic with the UK boiler helpdesk, to ordering the parts, to having me sign off his worksheet, to invoicing on his phone. The invoice was in my email inbox before his van had left the drive.
The method is out there and so is the SME capability to harness it.

 

[ffox]

But O365 doesn't say 'CRM' on the box so it won't even get considered by Mr Byre the Roofer.

Did I not say this already?

I agree. O365 is not marketed to the SME sector in any sensible way. That's why the take-up is, so far, based on low capital cost start and cheap cloud storage.

Maybe the question should be - why is it not marketed properly to the SME sector?

 

[ffox]

Have you seen the new edition of Google Sites. Would be good to get an unbiased blow by blow comparison.

To be honest I haven't seen the latest edition of Google Sites, I haven't had time to look. If it can do that which can be done with SP I for one will applauded. MS shouldn't have it all one way.

 

[Alan]

across the day on his 7 inch Android tablet

I tend to recommend 8 inch android tablets, just as they are a tad easier to type on, but 10 inch are too big. You can also get neat rubber jackets so they don't get bashed around in the van so much.

Seriously. I needed a CH boiler repair last October and the delightful young fella did the whole thing from phone calls, to texts, to email, to diagnostic with the UK boiler helpdesk, to ordering the parts, to having me sign off his worksheet, to invoicing on his phone. The invoice was in my email inbox before his van had left the drive.
The method is out there and so is the SME capability to harness it.

I'm integrating systems regularly just like this for plenty of Small Enterprises.

The main reason they want it - because their competition has it ( e.g. British Gas ) and they don't want to look low tech to their customers. Its so cheap now its part of 'branding'.

 

[ffox]

The main reason they want it - because their competition has it ( e.g. British Gas ) and they don't want to look low tech to their customers. Its so cheap now its part of 'branding'.

The technology is there, it's not expensive and the SME sector are up for it - so why not.

I just took a look at the New Google Sites video. It looks great, but I would have to spend a month or two working with it (preferably for a client) before I could say if it covers all the bases that SP does.

Do you get to work with it?

 

[fisicx]

Seriously. I needed a CH boiler repair last October and the delightful young fella did the whole thing from phone calls, to texts, to email, to diagnostic with the UK boiler helpdesk, to ordering the parts, to having me sign off his worksheet, to invoicing on his phone. The invoice was in my email inbox before his van had left the drive.

And the sparky who did our outside lights did much the same. But he didn't use O365 - he used a specialist CRM. And this has been the point all the time. Unless MS changes the name of their products and delivers ready made packages they will struggle. But this isn't going to happen so I doubt it will ever get much traction with SMEs.

 

[ffox]

Unless MS changes the name of their products and delivers ready made packages they will struggle. But this isn't going to happen so I doubt it will ever get much traction with SMEs.

Take a look at the sales of both Office 365 and G-Suite. MS aren't struggling to sell product and neither are Google. They just choose.to market via partners and developers, rather than directly to end users.
My point here is that for the first time in the history of computing the platforms both offer a code free environment. This can be used by business people and managers to developed the solution they want, rather than bending their needs to the software houses.

 

[nightmare99]

MS have recently started to create SMB apps that back into Office 365 services, take a look at bookings https://blogs.office.com/2016/07/20/bring-in-business-247-with-microsoft-bookings/ they know they need some pre-packaged apps that integrate with the service.

 

[MathSpire]

We use O365 for email/contacts/calendar/storage/filesharing/screensharing/tasks/officesuite. So we get pretty good value and think it's great.

What it doesn't have is CRM suitable to a very small business. We have just been to a trade show and have come back with a long list of contacts. Any suggestions about how to organize them? Or for a small CRM that integrates with O365?

 

[Alan]

Are these potential clients that you are going to follow up?

 

[ffox]

We use O365 for email/contacts/calendar/storage/filesharing/screensharing/tasks/officesuite. So we get pretty good value and think it's great.

What it doesn't have is CRM suitable to a very small business. We have just been to a trade show and have come back with a long list of contacts. Any suggestions about how to organize them? Or for a small CRM that integrates with O365?

From your list of functions in O365 it look like you have fairly high level licences. If that's the case you have all you need.
You can create a CRM in SharePoint lists and make it as complex or as simple as you need.

Take a look at - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHUIj6NKff5Wp_AxknlgZQA
and select the 'create a list' video.
Make the columns with names to suit your contact list.
As it may form the basis of a future CRM add a column for users to insert contact comments and another for next action. Make that one a select from a drop list column and enter the desired actions in as you configure the column. Add any other columns you think may be of use. SP will automatically create columns for created date, date last modified, last modified user name.
Then import the data (I assume this is in CSV format).
Import can be copy/paste (if so use IE, Chrome or FF as Edge doesn't like copy/paste). If you use copy paste keep it down to 200 rows at a time as the upload starts to slow down above that.
Alternately you can use MS access to create a linked SP list, import the csv into Access and it will automatically post everything to the list.

Shout out if you get stuck anywhere.

If you get really stuck let me have the structure (field names) of your contacts list and I'll do a template for you.

Chris

 

[Alan]

Are these potential clients that you are going to follow up?

The reason I ask, is depending what you want to do with the data will drive the functionality you need and that will drive the selection of an appropriate solution.

 

[MathSpire]

Yes we need to follow up. They are a lot of contacts of all sorts and we need to 1. email them different things, 2. make notes, 3. record when we have communicated, 4. not forget about them.

Not sure what the options are. We could make a spreadsheet for a low tech solution. Not too sure how ffox's solution differs from a spreadsheet or database. There is the new Outlook Customer Manager from microsoft. We could set up email lists in Outlook... or go to MailChimp. There are small CRM packages. I think SalesForce and Dynamics CRM are way too large for what we need.

Too many choices! I guess we should keep it simple to start with.