FireFox Adblock Threatens downfall of Internet Commerce

[Phil_Rees]

Take this into consideration - at present there are [SIZE=-1]1,596,270,108 [/SIZE]users of the internet world wide - Source - http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm

Adblock has to date over 50 million downloads and an average of 750k a week, thats 39 million users a year at the current rate of installation. So within 12 months nearly 100 million users thats 15% of the internet already.

Add to that organic growth and that figure raises dramaticlly to 200, 300 hundred users a year at that rate within 4 years all advertising methods on the internet will be blocked.

And thats a conservative estimate - how much damage to the economy do you think will do?

How much damage to your online business do you think that will do?

 

[Phil_Rees]

Surely there is something far more constructive you can champion?

Yes exactly what i am doing - championing the right for honest business people to advertise their ventures so that they can earn a living.

 

[Phil_Rees]

You're not vandalising someone's property.

If anything, it's more like this:

When I lived in Paris, they had free weekly newspapers. These papers were full of ads, but also had the TV listings for the week. And, because I wanted the TV listings, I'd pick one up each week.

Now, if I were to tear out and keep the TV pages and chuck the rest in the bin, that would be like Ad Blocker.

i.e. it's free content they're offering and I'm allowed to do anything I want with it. (including ignoring the ads)

Steve

Thats the problem steve, thats exactly what adblocker is doing and without choice, the choice is being made by the adblocker designers.

Whats to stop those designers for example setting a filter so that for example

All sports related content is blocked

or

All World Health warnings are blocked

 

[adventurelife]

Take this into consideration - at present there are [SIZE=-1]1,596,270,108 [/SIZE]users of the internet world wide - Source - http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm

Adblock has to date over 50 million downloads and an average of 750k a week, thats 39 million users a year at the current rate of installation. So within 12 months nearly 100 million users thats 15% of the internet already.

Add to that organic growth and that figure raises dramaticlly to 200, 300 hundred users a year at that rate within 4 years all advertising methods on the internet will be blocked.

And thats a conservative estimate - how much damage to the economy do you think will do?

How much damage to your online business do you think that will do?

You are on a business forum and yet the majority of the posts so far do not agree with you! The rate of growth your are pointing to signals that many more do not agree with you.

It will do no damage to the economy because humans will always find what they are looking for, the days of stuffing it in their faces saying buy, buy, buy are gone.

Wake up smell coffee and move on you cannot stop progress when the progress is in demand.

 

[Kev Jaques]

People smoke fags with bloody great big skull and crossbones on the packet saying it will kill them, does it stop them? NO.

As for all sports related content is blocked, great, not really interested in sports and a lot of other people don't need that either.

While I agree with some of the issues is it not better to have websites that have good content and good calls to actions which convert better than rely on ads, there are ways around showing some ads until someone adds in another filter for it.

Sounds like you want to go on a crusade here and I fear you will wither your life away searching for the holy grail only to choose the wrong cup and fade away into a pile of ashes.

 

[Phil_Rees]

Its not progress - its censorship, and that is the point im trying to address here.

Its time for others to wake up and smell the coffee of the long reaching effects of this type of software.

How about this as a filter put in by a competitor of yours - Active Holidays?

Lets ask another question - how are you guys going to advertise your business on the internet, when its blocked?

Do you understand the effect this will have on your business?

 

[JElder]

It is going to have some effects - maybe not as dire as some of the extreme warnings - but certain types of sites will have problems

Advert centric sites that draw traffic just to redirect it
Hobbyist type sites that use advert funding to pay for hosting, etc
Commercial sites that offer free services that are paid for by advertising impressions or click

These will either disappear, or find new forms of funding. I suspect a lot will vanish, but the more adaptable will find alternative incomes - blogs with recommendations, etc. However, that does open up a whole new can of worms, in that would you want a blogger to be paid for promoting a particular brand?

 

[Phil_Rees]

People smoke fags with bloody great big skull and crossbones on the packet saying it will kill them, does it stop them? NO.

As for all sports related content is blocked, great, not really interested in sports and a lot of other people don't need that either.

While I agree with some of the issues is it not better to have websites that have good content and good calls to actions which convert better than rely on ads, there are ways around showing some ads until someone adds in another filter for it.

Sounds like you want to go on a crusade here and I fear you will wither your life away searching for the holy grail only to choose the wrong cup and fade away into a pile of ashes.

YOUR RIGHT, it is better to have good content and good calls to action - but how are people going to know about your site with the exception of word of mouth if all advertising is blocked?

How will new ideas and business's gain following?

 

[Simon-M]

Perhaps google will buy it and set it to block all ads other than googles.

 

[Phil_Rees]

It is going to have some effects - maybe not as dire as some of the extreme warnings - but certain types of sites will have problems

Advert centric sites that draw traffic just to redirect it
Hobbyist type sites that use advert funding to pay for hosting, etc
Commercial sites that offer free services that are paid for by advertising impressions or click

These will either disappear, or find new forms of funding. I suspect a lot will vanish, but the more adaptable will find alternative incomes - blogs with recommendations, etc. However, that does open up a whole new can of worms, in that would you want a blogger to be paid for promoting a particular brand?

BINGO, the point on the head

Ok advert centric sites, i wont miss them.

But the latter two, those will be sore to lose.

This site itself for example - with out UKBF subscribers would not have any revenue - unless it was backed by commercial donations, it would dissapear!!

What a loss to the business community that would be.

 

[Trainer Bubble]

Whats to stop those designers for example setting a filter so that for example

All sports related content is blocked

or

All World Health warnings are blocked

I think the clue is in the name 'Ad-Blocker' and even if these evil people start deciding what I should and shouldn't view, I'll uninstall their software and view what I want. Pretty self regulating really I'd say.

It's a tool to make life better for people who don't want ads. Those people will not buy from ads anyway if they don't like them.

It doesn't threaten my business because my business is not selling ad space on my site. It also doesn't threaten ads that I put out to attract people top my website because I know that at least 50 million people aren't seeing them and even more aren't likely to click them, so I find alternative means to attract customers...simple really.

 

[Phil_Rees]

Perhaps google will buy it and set it to block all ads other than googles.

Scary thought that.

No reason why someone couldnt do that either, the guys who made the software put it on the open source market and gain their revenue from donations.

 

[Planck]

Lets ask another question - how are you guys going to advertise your business on the internet, when its blocked?

You just can't see it any other way, can you? You're so set on having your crusade, that you actually believe that this is the end of civilisation.

The answer to your question is that advertising will increasingly shift from a CPM model to a PPC or even conversion based (affilliate) model. In both these situations, it doesn't matter if the user chooses to remove the ads - the advertiser only pays on results (either clicks or conversions).

 

[Simon-M]

but how are people going to know about your site with the exception of word of mouth if all advertising is blocked?

How will new ideas and business's gain following?

I heard about this new thing called social bookmarking. It seems it might revolutionise the net. Just think people will be able to tweet each other and stuff. They can facebook all their mates and bebo their buds. Sounds really great.

 

[Phil_Rees]

I think the clue is in the name 'Ad-Blocker' and even if these evil people start deciding what I should and shouldn't view, I'll uninstall their software and view what I want. Pretty self regulating really I'd say.

It's a tool to make life better for people who don't want ads. Those people will not buy from ads anyway if they don't like them.

It doesn't threaten my business because my business is not selling ad space on my site. It also doesn't threaten ads that I put out to attract people top my website because I know that at least 50 million people aren't seeing them and even more aren't likely to click them, so I find alternative means to attract customers...simple really.

How about when adblocker starts blocking the hyper links in your signature?

 

[KM-Tiger]

- but how are people going to know about your site with the exception of word of mouth if all advertising is blocked?

There's a jolly handy tool I've found called Google. You just type in what you are looking for and it gives you a listing. It's quite clever as the ones near the top are more likely to be what you are looking for.

Try it here:

www.google.co.uk

 

[Phil_Rees]

You just can't see it any other way, can you? You're so set on having your crusade, that you actually believe that this is the end of civilisation.

The answer to your question is that advertising will increasingly shift from a CPM model to a PPC or even conversion based (affilliate) model. In both these situations, it doesn't matter if the user chooses to remove the ads - the advertiser only pays on results (either clicks or conversions).

Which will be a waste of time because users wont see the adverts to click on in the first place.

 

[Chris H]

Well if scripts like adblock are so evil we should see loads of commercial sites that will be restricting access to those godless commie dupes.

So, let's start a list of the successful sites that have blocked access.

So, in at #1 we have......................??

 

[Phil_Rees]

There's a jolly handy tool I've found called Google. You just type in what you are looking for and it gives you a listing. It's quite clever as the ones near the top are more likely to be what you are looking for.

Try it here:

www.google.co.uk

Great if your on the first page right at the top.

 

[Burdett]

Why not look at it another way? Ad Blocker is good for advertising.

Studies show that the average person is exposed to 3000 adverts per day. We don’t listen to them all and of those that we listen to most will be forgotten about 10 minutes later.
If we are exposed to fewer adverts we will probably be attracted to more of them which is good for the people advertising. Am I right?
All this will do is force advertisers to come up with more innovative ways to advertise.

 

[Trainer Bubble]

How about when adblocker starts blocking the hyper links in your signature?

What a ridiculous point.

 

[Phil_Rees]

Once a user turns on adblock - whats the chances they turn it off again?

Remember Adblock blocks 99% of adverts - only those those banners that are programmed into the html are displayed.

look at www.townbuzz.info/bluemountains - the site we are developing as we speak

We have a google box to the right, a CJ affiliate link at the top and one at the bottom.

To the top right is our prime ad block which is programmed into the html.

Turn on adblock all ads but the prime ad block dissapear, which means my staff dont earn any revenue from Affiliate banners (which we choose carefully) and google adsense.

The Prime ad block we charge a very high fee for.

Now if all advertising on the internet is reduced to paying webmasters and developers a VERY HIGH premium on the net - how difficult is that going to become for the majority of you to advertise your business?

You can forget about cheap PPC, and CPM - it will become obsolete.

We will be now entering the realm of HIGHLY PRICED advertising.

Will I complain about that, no not at all, im in the media business - will you as business advertisers who will find it increasingly difficult to advertise due to rising costs and restrictive selection, ill let you decide.

 

[Trainer Bubble]

Just a tip. You might want to turn the ads off on that site. They look awful and are very distracting. I'd install ad-blocker, but I use IE.

 

[Phil_Rees]

Then pay for a subscription to the site and the adverts will be turned off.

 

[Trainer Bubble]

Ha ha. Brilliant.

 

[adventurelife]

Its not progress - its censorship, and that is the point im trying to address here.

Its time for others to wake up and smell the coffee of the long reaching effects of this type of software.

How about this as a filter put in by a competitor of yours - Active Holidays?

Lets ask another question - how are you guys going to advertise your business on the internet, when its blocked?

Do you understand the effect this will have on your business?

The internet is only one of over 100 ways I use to get clients. I do not want my ads on non relvant sites and I do not do it anyway. How did you get business before the internet?

The net gets better when it gets more relevant to what people want not when it is what advertisers want!

Think customer first

 

[fisicx]

How about when adblocker starts blocking the hyper links in your signature?

That's ridiculous. Adblocker recognises third party links (the clue is in the afilliate code) and gives me the choice to clock or not. If you have a site with gentle unobtrusive adverts I don't bother to block. But fill my face with marketing media and I will either leave or block.

The links in signatures, blogs, articles and ecommerce sites aren't adverts (no afilliate code) so won't get blocked.

As I've already suggested, the people who block your adverts wern't going to buy anyway so it's irrelevant at whether they use adblocker or not.

 

[Chris H]

I'd install ad-blocker, but I use IE.

May I suggest http://www.quero.at/ ?

 

[Burdett]

Will I complain about that, no not at all, im in the media business - will you as business advertisers who will find it increasingly difficult to advertise due to rising costs and restrictive selection, ill let you decide.

Hmmm

I'm no expert but if less people are looking at ads won't that make the price of adverts go down and not up? Isn't that happening now?

 

[Phil_Rees]

We have thought customer first - we made the choice to make our site free, rather than subscription forced.

Also we do not only use the internet to advertise, however it is one of the methods we use including partnership programmes with local business, flyers, advertising in local magazines, working with local chambers of commerce, business associations and more ALL of which have their advocates and objectors - telemarketing, mail shotting in fact any form of self promotion has an eliment of of people who will object.

Hell I could offer a cheque to people in the street for a thousand people and Im bloody sure I would find someone who would object to it.

The issue here is not those methods we are discussing, its about keeping the internet free, protecting freedom of speech and permitting business and organisations (especially small organisations and business on a tight budget) the ability to promote themselves.

ADblock removes this choice both ways IN MASS

 

[Phil_Rees]

Hmmm

I'm no expert but if less people are looking at ads won't that make the price of adverts go down and not up? Isn't that happening now?

The reverse is true - the more competitive and less availability of advertising space, the higher the premium media agencies will be able to charge.

Just look at advertising at major sports events etc - unless your a big big big blue chip - forget about it.

 

[Trainer Bubble]

May I suggest http://www.quero.at/ ?

In truth, I've never really been too bothered by ads. If there are too many and it distracts me from my purpose then I click away. Perhaps if I had some sort of adblocker the site would keep me interested, which kind of goes against the argument that adblocker is killing the web!

 

[Trainer Bubble]

The reverse is true - the competitive and less availability of advertising space, the higher the premium media agencies will be able to charge.

Just look at advertising at major sports events etc - unless your a big big big blue chip - forget about it.

You are forgetting to factor in 'exposure'. If the ads get no exposure the price will go down...and this is what you are saying is happening with adblocker.

 

[Phil_Rees]

That's ridiculous. Adblocker recognises third party links (the clue is in the afilliate code) and gives me the choice to clock or not. If you have a site with gentle unobtrusive adverts I don't bother to block. But fill my face with marketing media and I will either leave or block.

The links in signatures, blogs, articles and ecommerce sites aren't adverts (no afilliate code) so won't get blocked.

As I've already suggested, the people who block your adverts wern't going to buy anyway so it's irrelevant at whether they use adblocker or not.

Not ridculous at all, there is already software out there used by well known virus blocker services that block hyper links in signatures.

I do get your point about those blocking adverts are not going to buy in the first place and is a valid point.

However as our "USER SUBSCRIPTION" is paid for by sponsors and advertising, why should I allow people who have not paid a subscription use the services we provide. How would it be, if i didnt have other methods of generating income before I or other media informational sites are put out of business?

Thats a theorectical point by the way, we will not be blocking users from our sites - period.

Its only a matter of time before it is added to blanket programmes like adblock.

 

[Maverick.]

I've never like Ads. I've been using AdBlock for about a year and its great. Blocks out all those flashy ads that screw up my sight. In fact, I am blocking the ads on the right of this forum as we speak! Loving the white space.

The Internet is full of either 1) Get rich quick "I made $3m while taking a dunk" stupid ads, 2) Lose 25lbs by eating Cadburys in 30mins, 3) Meet hot girls NOW.

This thread is hilarious.

You can't protest against change, and human wishes - innovate, come up with an effective way to freakin market your business, and if its any good, it will grow because people will hear about it. Whatever happend to word-of-mouth viral marketing.

Just deal with it man, its evolution.

Edit: Read an article on the net about a 15yr old intern at Morgan Stanley that "shook" the city about teenage behaviour and media. It was in The Guardian and FT recently.

 

[fisicx]

Then pay for a subscription to the site and the adverts will be turned off.

This is why sites like yours wither and die. Why should I pay for a subscription when there is already a free community site for my locality. What you have done is make the advertising more important than the site which sort of spells the death knell for you in the long term. Seen it happen so many times.

 

[Chris H]

The issue here is not those methods we are discussing, its about keeping the internet free, protecting freedom of speech and permitting business and organisations (especially small organisations and business on a tight budget) the ability to promote themselves.

ADblock removes this choice both ways IN MASS

So you want to control what software I put on my computer and also control what I can and can't see? Doesn't sound like freedom to me, just a case of commercial interest seeking to control.

 

[Phil_Rees]

You are forgetting to factor in 'exposure'. If the ads get no exposure the price will go down...and this is what you are saying is happening with adblocker.

And the ads that are getting exposure will increase in price and those that get no exposure will not be offered.

 

[fisicx]

Not ridculous at all, there is already software out there used by well known virus blocker services that block hyper links in signatures.

Really? how can it differentiate between a signature link and a link the body of the post. Look at the code, theres nothing there to block.

 

[Phil_Rees]

So you want to control what software I put on my computer and also control what I can and can't see? Doesn't sound like freedom to me, just a case of commercial interest seeking to control.

Not so, people have a choice, they can use and install whatever they want.

However ADblock ARE controlling the software you install, AND controlling the sites and content that you can or cant see.

Just as bad as Digital Rights Management in my mind.