Filed DSO1 last year and now Barclaycard have sold the Debt and the company is threatening me with jail

[ProudMary]

Hello Please help me to make sense of this?
I used the Spongebob method as my catering business could not survive the COVID distruction. I had £4k in BBL and a credit card debt of £10k with Barclaycard. Barclaycard were good with me they referred me to Bus. Debtline who advised me that the only solution was a strike off I relayed this to Barclaycard and they told me there was no personal gaurantee and that the company was liable for the debt.
They did not contact me at all over the last 12 months as the Department for Business and Trades (DBT) had objected to the strike off on 11 Nov.. I revceived a letter from Azzurro Ass. on 5th Dec 2023 advising me they had purchased the debt and that their servicer would be in touch RSM UK Creditor. A lady phoned me from RSM and told me she wanted payment for this outstanding amount of 10k and that she wanted the whole amount paid otherwise they would continue rejecting the strike off. She said I would be jailed and or recieve a hefty fine for striking off the company. I told her that Barclaycard gave me the telephone number for Bus Debtline and that they gave me advice of which I informed Barclaycard of the advice received. She said that advice was illegal and I better get back to Bus Debtline. She reiterated that I would be jailed and recieve a hefty fine. I told her to get the to investigate as everything was above board and is above board. Bus Debtline said I should complain to Barclaycard and Azzuro and RSM.
My question is what can they do to me although I know everything is in order? Sorry if this sounds dumb?

 

[ProudMary]

Or how should I deal with them?

 

[pentel]

Have a look at:

Harassment by creditors

How creditors are supposed to behave when they are trying to recover their money, what kind of behaviour is not acceptable and how to tell if you are being harassed.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk

with particular reference to :

• giving the impression that not paying the debt is a criminal offence. For most debts, it is not a criminal offence if you don't pay them.

 

[Frank the Insurance guy]

I revceived a letter from Azzurro Ass. on 5th Dec 2023 advising me they had purchased the debt and that their servicer would be in touch RSM UK Creditor. A lady phoned me from RSM and told me she wanted payment for this outstanding amount of 10k

Was the letter addressed to your personally or to the company?
Are they asking you to pay the debt personally or the company?

If there are no personal guarantees then they cannot pursue you directly.

If the company has no money or assets, tell them.

 

[ProudMary]

Was the letter addressed to your personally or to the company?
Are they asking you to pay the debt personally or the company?

If there are no personal guarantees then they cannot pursue you directly.

If the company has no money or assets, tell them.

The letter was addressed to the company.

She said can you pay or make an offer and I told her the company has not traded in nearly 1 1/2 years and there is no money as Barclays Bank took all the money for the BBL and there are no assets.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

For ultimate peace of mind, speak to a solicitor.

However, they are chasing the company for a debt, not you.

If they continue to harass you, write to them and say that you will report them to the FCA if they do not stop.

 

[IanSuth]

In which case next time they call tell them you will no longer enter into any further communication with them and will consider continued attempts by them as harassment.

 

[pentel]

The letter was addressed to the company.

She said can you pay

The company and you are 2 separate legal entities.

Where is the companies registered office? Ask her to write to the company at their registered office.

And then ignore the letters.

Only deal with this by post, block the number of any calls.

 

[ProudMary]

The company and you are 2 separate legal entities.

Where is the companies registered office? Ask her to write to the company at their registered office.

And then ignore the letters.

Only deal with this by post, block the number of any calls.

It is registered at my home

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

It is registered at my home

Return to sender - not at this address!

 

[Mark T Jones]

Hello Please help me to make sense of this?
I used the Spongebob method as my catering business could not survive the COVID distruction. I had £4k in BBL and a credit card debt of £10k with Barclaycard. Barclaycard were good with me they referred me to Bus. Debtline who advised me that the only solution was a strike off I relayed this to Barclaycard and they told me there was no personal gaurantee and that the company was liable for the debt.
They did not contact me at all over the last 12 months as the Department for Business and Trades (DBT) had objected to the strike off on 11 Nov.. I revceived a letter from Azzurro Ass. on 5th Dec 2023 advising me they had purchased the debt and that their servicer would be in touch RSM UK Creditor. A lady phoned me from RSM and told me she wanted payment for this outstanding amount of 10k and that she wanted the whole amount paid otherwise they would continue rejecting the strike off. She said I would be jailed and or recieve a hefty fine for striking off the company. I told her that Barclaycard gave me the telephone number for Bus Debtline and that they gave me advice of which I informed Barclaycard of the advice received. She said that advice was illegal and I better get back to Bus Debtline. She reiterated that I would be jailed and recieve a hefty fine. I told her to get the to investigate as everything was above board and is above board. Bus Debtline said I should complain to Barclaycard and Azzuro and RSM.
My question is what can they do to me although I know everything is in order? Sorry if this sounds dumb?

Ask her to put the jail thing in writing.

 

[Newchodge]

Hello Please help me to make sense of this?
I used the Spongebob method as my catering business could not survive the COVID distruction. I had £4k in BBL and a credit card debt of £10k with Barclaycard. Barclaycard were good with me they referred me to Bus. Debtline who advised me that the only solution was a strike off I relayed this to Barclaycard and they told me there was no personal gaurantee and that the company was liable for the debt.
They did not contact me at all over the last 12 months as the Department for Business and Trades (DBT) had objected to the strike off on 11 Nov.. I revceived a letter from Azzurro Ass. on 5th Dec 2023 advising me they had purchased the debt and that their servicer would be in touch RSM UK Creditor. A lady phoned me from RSM and told me she wanted payment for this outstanding amount of 10k and that she wanted the whole amount paid otherwise they would continue rejecting the strike off. She said I would be jailed and or recieve a hefty fine for striking off the company. I told her that Barclaycard gave me the telephone number for Bus Debtline and that they gave me advice of which I informed Barclaycard of the advice received. She said that advice was illegal and I better get back to Bus Debtline. She reiterated that I would be jailed and recieve a hefty fine. I told her to get the to investigate as everything was above board and is above board. Bus Debtline said I should complain to Barclaycard and Azzuro and RSM.
My question is what can they do to me although I know everything is in order? Sorry if this sounds dumb?

When you submitted the DS01 did you write to all your creditors, formally notifying them - Barclaycard and the bank you had the BBL with?

 

[ChrisCallaghan]

She said I would be jailed and or recieve a hefty fine for striking off the company.

Completely incorrect, so long as you had ceased to trade for three months prior to the application, and done as @Newchodge has stated, i.e. writing you creditors etc. These are all things Business DebtLine should have advised you to do prior to filing a DS01. If you have not, then risks of fines and prosecution are technically correct, with fines being the most common outcome.

I hate to disagree with the other comments, but if your strike off application is being objected to, then the creditors are entirely allowed to contact you as the company's representative to ask for payment. They can continue with all reasonable debt collection activity, including phone calls, letters, emails and legal action, e.g. CCJs, bailiffs etc.

As stated by others, if you have not signed a personal guarantee, then please remember you are not personally liable for these debts, however creditors are allowed to chase you as the director whilst your company still legally exists.

 

[ProudMary]

When you submitted the DS01 did you write to all your creditors, formally notifying them - Barclaycard and the bank you had the BBL with?

Yes all by special delivery

 

[ChrisCallaghan]

Yes all by special delivery

And had you ceased trading for 3 months prior to submitting your DS01 application?

 

[Newchodge]

Yes all by special delivery

Then I would be very inclined to notify the debt collection company, in writing, that any further threats of fines or jail will be met by a police complaint of harassment.

 

[ProudMary]

And had you ceased trading for 3 months prior to submitting your DS01 application?

Yes

 

[ChrisCallaghan]

Sorry Cyndy, I'm not convinced this would be considered as harassment. OP's application to strike off was objected to, and so creditors (or 3rd parties they instruct to collect on their behalf) are entitled to contact OP. I think the lady from RSM may have been very heavy handed, and may have misinterpreted how directors can be fined or prosecuted if they fail to adhere to their duties prior to submitting a DS01, but OP has not mentioned high volumes of calls (unless I've missed a post) that could be considered as harassment.

@ProudMary , honestly I am sorry for the upset and stress this will have caused you, and I do think that RSM should realistically just let this go, but they are under no obligation to do so. Your application to close the company has been objected to, and so the creditors may continue to contact you as the company's director, as unfair as that feels.

If you would like to complain that the RSM agent has attempted to mislead you with threats of fines or jail, then rightly complain. However, if she has worded it correctly, such as advising directors who wrongly apply for DS01 (such as prior to ceasing to trade for 3 months and without notifying creditors) being at risk of fines and prosecution, then I suspect your complaint would be dismissed.

If you wrote to the creditors via recorded delivery, then all you need to do at this time is refer them back to that letter, or re-send if they claim not to have it. Alternatively you could consider closing the company via a liquidation, but I suspect you may have already explored this option and understand that liquidations can be costly. If you would like to explore liquidation and gather quotations for comparison, myself or any of the insolvency regulars on UKBF would be happy to help.

 

[ChrisCallaghan]

Ask her to put the jail thing in writing.

I suspect she may be using the wording on the actually DS01 in way to benefit her efforts to collect this debt:

"Failure to notify interested parties is an offence which is punishable by up to 12 months in prison (for English or Welsh companies) or 6 months in prison (for Scottish or Northern Irish companies)."

Thankfully this does not affect OP, as they have mentioned they posted notice to creditors via recorded delivery.

 

[IanSuth]

Sorry Cyndy, I'm not convinced this would be considered as harassment. OP's application to strike off was objected to, and so creditors (or 3rd parties they instruct to collect on their behalf) are entitled to contact OP. I think the lady from RSM may have been very heavy handed, and may have misinterpreted how directors can be fined or prosecuted if they fail to adhere to their duties prior to submitting a DS01, but OP has not mentioned high volumes of calls (unless I've missed a post) that could be considered as harassment.

@ProudMary , honestly I am sorry for the upset and stress this will have caused you, and I do think that RSM should realistically just let this go, but they are under no obligation to do so. Your application to close the company has been objected to, and so the creditors may continue to contact you as the company's director, as unfair as that feels.

If you would like to complain that the RSM agent has attempted to mislead you with threats of fines or jail, then rightly complain. However, if she has worded it correctly, such as advising directors who wrongly apply for DS01 (such as prior to ceasing to trade for 3 months and without notifying creditors) being at risk of fines and prosecution, then I suspect your complaint would be dismissed.

If you wrote to the creditors via recorded delivery, then all you need to do at this time is refer them back to that letter, or re-send if they claim not to have it. Alternatively you could consider closing the company via a liquidation, but I suspect you may have already explored this option and understand that liquidations can be costly. If you would like to explore liquidation and gather quotations for comparison, myself or any of the insolvency regulars on UKBF would be happy to help.

But whichever way - if she has correctly informed all then she can basically let RSM know that and that they have zero chance of getting any £ so would be best spending their time on other debts, safe in the knowledge that in the absence of personal guarantees, there is nothing RSM can do.

 

[Newchodge]

I think the lady from RSM may have been very heavy handed, and may have misinterpreted how directors can be fined or prosecuted if they fail to adhere to their duties prior to submitting a DS01,

IF the OP had failed to follow the correct procedures, she could have been prosecuted, she may have been fined and could even have been sent to jail. To threaten her, even once, with those things when there is no possibility of them happening is harassment or, if you prefer, it is demanding money with menaces, which is a criminal offence.

 

[ProudMary]

I suspect she may be using the wording on the actually DS01 in way to benefit her efforts to collect this debt:

"Failure to notify interested parties is an offence which is punishable by up to 12 months in prison (for English or Welsh companies) or 6 months in prison (for Scottish or Northern Irish companies)."

Thankfully this does not affect OP, as they have mentioned they posted notice to creditors via recorded delivery.

I recorded the end of the conversation as it had become too much for me and th transcript goes like this,
. I told her that the company had ceased trading and that there was no money as Barclays Bank had taken the money that was left in the account and that I had taken advice from a debt management company which was to strike off the company as there were no other options. She then began speaking fast and became agitated and raised her voice louder and demanded that I come up with a settlement offer as they would continue to object to the strike off until the money is paid in full. I said I couldn’t and she began shouting at me that I am going to be jailed and I will have to pay a hefty fine and that the company (Barclaycard) referred me to, Business Debtline, had given me illegal advice. She also said, that I should call Business Debtline and tell them that the advice they had given to me was illegal. She continued to berate me saying again that the government will investigate me because as a director I did an illegal act by applying to have the company struck off without settling this debt. I replied that they can investigate. She repeated again that I would likely be jailed and or have to pay a hefty fine. She also asked what I used the money for and before I could answer, she said, why was the company in debt, and said that obviously the company was in trouble and before I could answer, she asked, didn’t the company get furlough? And what did you do with that money? (at this point to protect myself I began to record the conversation because her tone, threats and harassment got to me although I remained respectful) So, I requested, she repeated herself, her tone went down a few notches and changed her language, saying, “You filed a DSO1 document, your intention to dissolve a company while creditor accounts remain outstanding is punishable by the UK government by a fine or imprisonment either 0r, ok, like I say who ever advised you of that you may wish to give them a call and speak about it or you may need official legal advice and I will relay this to my client and they will make a decision on how they wish to proceed.” I asked, “and you said you were calling from?” She said,” The company is RSM you will be receiving documentation from us shortly” Thank you for your time, Goodbye

 

[ChrisCallaghan]

But whichever way - if she has correctly informed all then she can basically let RSM know that and that they have zero chance of getting any £ so would be best spending their time on other debts, safe in the knowledge that in the absence of personal guarantees, there is nothing RSM can do.

Completely agree with you Ian. But in these circumstances, a typical collections call centre agent may make 200+ calls a day. Costs them very little to keep a file like this open. They rely on high volume, and only need a couple to pay out.

 

[ChrisCallaghan]

I recorded the end of the conversation as it had become too much for me and th transcript goes like this,
. I told her that the company had ceased trading and that there was no money as Barclays Bank had taken the money that was left in the account and that I had taken advice from a debt management company which was to strike off the company as there were no other options. She then began speaking fast and became agitated and raised her voice louder and demanded that I come up with a settlement offer as they would continue to object to the strike off until the money is paid in full. I said I couldn’t and she began shouting at me that I am going to be jailed and I will have to pay a hefty fine and that the company (Barclaycard) referred me to, Business Debtline, had given me illegal advice. She also said, that I should call Business Debtline and tell them that the advice they had given to me was illegal. She continued to berate me saying again that the government will investigate me because as a director I did an illegal act by applying to have the company struck off without settling this debt. I replied that they can investigate. She repeated again that I would likely be jailed and or have to pay a hefty fine. She also asked what I used the money for and before I could answer, she said, why was the company in debt, and said that obviously the company was in trouble and before I could answer, she asked, didn’t the company get furlough? And what did you do with that money? (at this point to protect myself I began to record the conversation because her tone, threats and harassment got to me although I remained respectful) So, I requested, she repeated herself, her tone went down a few notches and changed her language, saying, “You filed a DSO1 document, your intention to dissolve a company while creditor accounts remain outstanding is punishable by the UK government by a fine or imprisonment either 0r, ok, like I say who ever advised you of that you may wish to give them a call and speak about it or you may need official legal advice and I will relay this to my client and they will make a decision on how they wish to proceed.” I asked, “and you said you were calling from?” She said,” The company is RSM you will be receiving documentation from us shortly” Thank you for your time, Goodbye

If she has said as you have stated, then by all means I encourage you to complain. They will have recorded the entire call - request the recording for your own comfort also. If she has has falsely used threats of fines and imprisonment, you complaint may even be upheld.

What I was attempting to make clear is that will not prevent them making phone calls. Creditors are entitled to continue debt collection activity against companies when their strike off application has been objected to. I should stress that I'm not siding with RSM here at all. I think this agent has likely gone way outside her remit, and wrongly used correct information when speaking to you.

 

[DontAsk]

I would complain to Azzurro Associates, RSM and also their professional bodies Credit Services Association and Chartered Institute of Credit Management are listed for corporate or personal memberships on Azzurro's webpage, and also to the FCA. RSM have direct contact info on their webpage for a number of employees, but it's just a trading name for a number of independents.

 

[Lisa Thomas]

OP's conversation with RSM reminds me of why I made this video...

Directors are NOT personally liable for Bounce Back Loans, so banks - stop implying that they are!

I had a little rant about some banks implying to Directors that they are personally liable for Bounce Back Loans advanced to their Limited company...Here is ...

youtu.be

 

[prophet01]

@ProudMary
You are where you are. So, setting aside the history of matters I would at this point:

• Not answer any more calls. They are deliberately intimidatory and meant to distress you. It's cleary working.
• Write to them stating that their calls are distressing you and, consequently, you will only engage with them in writing.
• Keep a log of all previous and any future calls from them.
• Submit a subject access request to be provided with all your personal data they hold,
  This willl achieve several goals:
  Firstly, it would reveal all information on you that they hold which will include any recorded phone conversations and any recorded discussions about your case. Invaluable information.
  Secondly, it forces them to do work, which costs them.
  Thirdly, it demonstrates that you aren't as vulnerable and weak as they appear to believe you to be thereby casting doubt in there minds as to the way they're pursuing you.
• Not worry about threats. As it stands they are just that, threats.

In the last few months I've, sort of similarly, been dealing with a debt collection company instructed by an insurer who told them I owed £94 odd in respect of a cancelled policy.

Of course, they had no option but to respond to my SAR and provide the requested information at their cost. They've recently confirmed that the purported debt recovery file has been referred back to the insurers. Too much trouble I suspect.

I'm not letting the insurer off though, as I believe my personal data was handed to the debt collector in breach of GDPR.

Data protection legislation is, as it was intended to be, empowering to the unempowered.

 

[ProudMary]

I have received a letter from RSM which states,
"We have received notification that there is a pending application to the registrar of companies for xxxxxx to be struck off the register and given the outstanding sum due, our client has objected to the striking off."
They have requested a phone call within 14 days. Their letter is dated 7/12 and on 6/12 I received a reply from companies after a request who had objected to the strike off and there was only DBT.
Which is the best way to respond please? I am sending off the SAR request today as well as letter asking to communicate only in writing.

 

[fisicx]

Write back as you suggest saying all correspondence is to be in writing and any phone call will be treated as harassment.

DBT can object all they want. The company will eventually be struck off and RSM can stick it where the sun doesn't shine.

 

[Spongebob]

The first thing to do is block the phone number. If you can't do this simply hang up if they phone you again.

The only correspondence you need have with them is to send them a version of The Spongebob Letter inviting them to wind up the company leading to the Official Receiver being appointed.

This letter kills all debt collection action in 99% of cases.

 

[ProudMary]

The first thing to do is block the phone number. If you can't do this simply hang up if they phone you again.

The only correspondence you need have with them is to send them a version of The Spongebob Letter inviting them to wind up the company leading to the Official Receiver being appointed.

This letter kills all debt collection action in 99% of cases.

Happy New Year to you all!
I received a letter from RSM today dated 19 Dec which was the same day my special delivery was delivered using the above response. It states "We refer to my previous communication within which I detailed the outstanding balance due by you to Azzurro Associates Ltd. We are disappointed to note that the balance remains outstanding.
As you will be aware. Azzurro Ass Ltd has objected to the striking off of Company name due to the outstanding balance due. (which is false as I did check who had objected)
We would take this opportunity to remind you that, as a director, you are compelled to act in accordance with your statutory and common law duties, in default of which you may become personally liable.
Whilst it is our intention to resolve this amicably, in the event that we do not receive full repayment of the above amount, Azzurro Associates Ltd may consider further legal action against you to recover the outstanding debt together with costs and interest. I trust that further action will prove unnecessary and will await your immediate response.
Payment can be made by way of a bank transfer:"
Do I have to respond and if so how? Thank you in advance.

 

[Newchodge]

Happy New Year to you all!
I received a letter from RSM today dated 19 Dec which was the same day my special delivery was delivered using the above response. It states "We refer to my previous communication within which I detailed the outstanding balance due by you to Azzurro Associates Ltd. We are disappointed to note that the balance remains outstanding.
As you will be aware. Azzurro Ass Ltd has objected to the striking off of Company name due to the outstanding balance due. (which is false as I did check who had objected)
We would take this opportunity to remind you that, as a director, you are compelled to act in accordance with your statutory and common law duties, in default of which you may become personally liable.
Whilst it is our intention to resolve this amicably, in the event that we do not receive full repayment of the above amount, Azzurro Associates Ltd may consider further legal action against you to recover the outstanding debt together with costs and interest. I trust that further action will prove unnecessary and will await your immediate response.
Payment can be made by way of a bank transfer:"
Do I have to respond and if so how? Thank you in advance.

I would ignore it.

 

[prophet01]

Submit a subject access request to be provided with all your personal data they hold,
This willl achieve several goals:
Firstly, it would reveal all information on you that they hold which will include any recorded phone conversations and any recorded discussions about your case. Invaluable information.
Secondly, it forces them to do work, which costs them.
Thirdly, it demonstrates that you aren't as vulnerable and weak as they appear to believe you to be thereby casting doubt in there minds as to the way they're pursuing you.

I am sending off the SAR request today as well as letter asking to communicate only in writing.

Don't forget to let us know when you receive your SAR response which should, at the latest, be within 30 days of submission, so next Thursday.

I'd be interested to know the extent of information they provide as it's more than likely it won't be satisfactorily comprehensive, prompting potential further action.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

I missed this one a month ago

I will reinforce the fact that you cant go to jail for the failure of the company unless you stole a lot of money from the firm
...............................................................................................................................
Spongbob Plan

I love Bob but the fact of the matter is that this plan is now a ropey plan if you have a BBL or other covid assistance for your limited firm . Dont use it if you have personal assets that you wish to protect
The only way now is to talk to an Insolvency Practitioner
...............................................................................................................................
Starting and Being in Business in the Modern Age

This has never been mentioned or discussed before on here because no one believes that they will fail but so many do
Your business and personal plan when running a limited company should be to ring fence a few thousand pound to pay an IP should all go wrong . This is one of the best insurance plans that you can have.

Understand what you are personally liable for and realise that this will still be your debt once the company has gone .
Dont be the person on here this week asking the membership if they were personally liable for a loan from their fallen company

 

[ProudMary]

Don't forget to let us know when you receive your SAR response which should, at the latest, be within 30 days of submission, so next Thursday.

I'd be interested to know the extent of information they provide as it's more than likely it won't be satisfactorily comprehensive, prompting potential further action.

I have not recieved the SAR as yet it is about 2+weeks late? Should I write to them again? Thank you in advance

 

[prophet01]

Absolutely. This is what I recently sent to Nominet.
They responded the same day

Dear Sir/Mme​

​

Please accept my formal complaint in respect of your failure to respond by the due date to my Subject Access Request of 12 December, as quoted below, which renders you in breach of the General Data Protection Regulations.​

​

I would be grateful to receive your rational explanation along with your proposals to swiftly rectify the matter.​

 

[Mark James]

Jokes - write back asking if they will be leinient with you and put you in a cat c open prison near your home. You can’t be jailed.

 

[ProudMary]

This is an email I recieved from RSM this morning denying they recieved the SAR. Azzurro Associates also responded yesterday saying they were sending the data separately to the letter they sent but denied recieving the SAR and asked for a copy of the signed for slip.Please can anyone tell me how to get the recording or transcript of the call RSM made to me and what else can I do?
Dear XXXXX XXXXXXXXX

I refer to your letter of 26 January 2024 in which you made a subject access request under the UK GDPR as enacted via the Data Protection Act 2018 (DPA 2018).
Having reviewed the file I am unable to trace a letter dated 8 December 2023 and unfortunately, a copy was not attached with your most recent correspondence as stated.
Please note that a limited company or a representative of a limited company acting on behalf of the company, or other such entity (or its representative acting on its behalf) required to register with Companies House or similar register cannot make a SAR in relation to the company. A director, officer or other company representative may only request data about him or herself specifically, and it may then be treated as a SAR. On that basis, we will treat the SAR made by you as a request for personal data and the material that we will search for and provide will be that which we consider falls within the specific request which you have made.
The personal data held by RSM in relation to you is as follows: Name: XXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXContact: XXXXXXXXXXX Email: [email protected]
If you wish to make a complaint regarding the debt collection process, I would suggest that you contact Azzurro Associates Ltd direct as this firm only acts on their instructions.
I trust this clarifies.