Exact Match Domains - Who is feeling the pain?

[Chunkford]

While Google tries to mimic artificial intelligence with their (flawed) algos. The system will always be gamed. And while it can be gamed you are going to get the people who take advantage of this and make a killing while there are people out there moaning about how they do it the right thing and can't seem to rank. It will happen One day I suppose

Create fantastic content, but how does Google know it's fantastic?
Create a brand, but how does Google know it's a brand?

It's all propaganda to cover up their inability to search the free web and display unbiased results of worthy websites to their searchers that want the best sites.
Instead it's a Google 'censored' web that displays sites abusing the system and taking advantage while Google make record profits year in year out by placing their ad around their results that people have been fooled into thinking are the best out there.

So while debate go on about branding is the way forward, which costs huge amounts of money that the majority of businesses don't have, there's people out there taking advantage sipping on their cocktails sat on some tropical beach reaping the rewards.

 

[zigojacko]

Yep it was an affiliate website with some adsense on it but it wasn't spammy at all. It actually give information about each product and genuine reviews.

Does that mean affiliate sites should be banned too? Why would it flag alarm bells?

What do you define as a "legit" business online?

More than 50% of affiliate sites are spam. That's reason enough to flag anything related to affiliate marketing. Then run through the other checks to see how it compares.

Where did the information come from? Scraped, copied or sourced from the originator again, is another reason for flagging.

 

[Chunkford]

More than 50% of affiliate sites are spam. That's reason enough to flag anything related to affiliate marketing. Then run through the other checks to see how it compares.

Where did the information come from? Scraped, copied or sourced from the originator again, is another reason for flagging.

Pretty much Google's business model then

 

[DesignerNick]

More than 50% of affiliate sites are spam. That's reason enough to flag anything related to affiliate marketing. Then run through the other checks to see how it compares.

Where did the information come from? Scraped, copied or sourced from the originator again, is another reason for flagging.

The information was written and is unique.

 

[zigojacko]

I do agree about some sounding spammy but if Dave round the corner wants to start a garage in Manchester and knows how to fix cars and doesn't have a marketing degree he might call his garage "Manchester Garage" and then get the domain to match.

I am not saying that keyword stuffing domains is right but it isn't always the case that people have bought them just for that.[/QUOTE]

I dare-say there are some exceptions, with just about anything in life but if a garage in Manchester called their business 'Manchester Garage' then it is more than just a marketing degree they've missed out on.

I've been to many garages, I've never ever come across one with a name so generic as this, it doesn't make sense from any angle at all...

Mancs Motors... Now this would be more memorable and potentially even trustworthy.

 

[zigojacko]

Like I said it depends on the instance. Obviously things like viagra4u.com is nothing but spam but what happens if it is something like:

Newcastlecargarage.co.uk
Coventryplumber.co.uk
Maidstonecarrental.co.uk

They could and probably are genuine business names that could have been hit.

Alternatively viagra4u.com might be more helpful if I needed Viagra and could buy it from there rather than an amazon link or Ebay search that doesn't have any :redface:

I still stand by my original comments. If someone called their business 'Coventry Plumber', then they are pretty stupid.

Granted, they may be real businesses and real websites. But then they should have spoken to an expert before picking such a generic and non-helpful name.

 

[DesignerNick]

It is pretty helpful though, it says they are a plumber in coventry compared to "plumbright" or something like that which yes is a brand and catchy but coventry plumber is more informative.

It really depends on the situation rather than just saying "all emd's are useless".

 

[zigojacko]

Create fantastic content, but how does Google know it's fantastic?

Because it is shared, it is popular, it builds 'social votes' / 'social popularity', generates natural links, contains engagement, has a low bounce rate, drives highly relevant traffic - the list is endless.

Create a brand, but how does Google know it's a brand?

Because it doesn't contain a keyword stuffed domain, it can look at code and detect copyright notices, it can read terms and conditions to identify registered business name, it can access third party databases to match against company information - again, the list is endless.

 

[fisicx]

I still stand by my original comments. If someone called their business 'Coventry Plumber', then they are pretty stupid.

Bloke in Essex called Steve spend ages trying to come up with a business name for his taxi firm.

In the end he called is 'Steve's Taxis'. Nobody forget's it.

Eddie Stobart has done alright as well.

 

[RadiusBPO]

http://www.clubnetsearchmarketing.co.uk/ maybe you should have talked to an expert before picking a domain with keywords in it??

 

[zigojacko]

It is pretty helpful though, it says they are a plumber in coventry compared to "plumbright" or something like that which yes is a brand and catchy but coventry plumber is more informative.

It really depends on the situation rather than just saying "all emd's are useless".

It's irrelevant though now because Google serve, by default to the unsuspecting user, local based search results.

So if Plumbright is ranked when I search for Coventry plumber, then they are going to be accessible in Coventry (they won't though because they are a merchant, not a plumber - but you get the idea).

I never said all EMD's are useless. Most are though, IMO.

 

[zigojacko]

http://www.clubnetsearchmarketing.co.uk/ maybe you should have talked to an expert before picking a domain with keywords in it??

It's still a branded domain name though... The Clubnet Group which has multiple companies in different industries can't have the same domain name for each company.

In any case, http://www.clubnetsem.com/ which will probably be utilised at some point soon does not contain any keywords in - if that makes you happier.

 

[awebapart.com]

Google...

You may not like what they have done but it's their trainset and they can do whatever they want with it.

Heh heh, "trainset" ... I like that. It also got me thinking of "gravy train", and "band wagon".

FWIW, I haven't seen much change with my exact match domains. Matt Cutts tweeted that the change only affected a small percentage of searches - "affects 0.6% of English-US queries to a noticeable degree".

But google could (and IMO should) do more in this area in the future.

 

[Chunkford]

Because it is shared, it is popular, it builds 'social votes' / 'social popularity', generates natural links, contains engagement, has a low bounce rate, drives highly relevant traffic - the list is endless.

So none of it is actually on the content it's self but relying on external sources to determine if it is good or not. External sources that can be easily influenced to mimic good content.

Because it doesn't contain a keyword stuffed domain, it can look at code and detect copyright notices, it can read terms and conditions to identify registered business name, it can access third party databases to match against company information - again, the list is endless.

And that's coming from someone who has keywords in their domain
But anyway, none of that determines if it is a brand. Being registered say at Companies House doesn't, looking for company information on the web doesn't, and what's looking at code and copyright notices got to do with being a brand!!?? All of them may go towards being a legit business, but not a brand.
A brand is a word. A word that represents your company and philosophy, that's instantly recognisable by the masses for your core product/services. That's all it is.

 

[Andrew Baker]

This update is not about all EKDs but rather low quality EKDs... based on what I've read on the subject in the last few days...

I think there is a clear distinction.

One of my first business websites (which is still live) is an EKD and I did acquire it to build a brand. I'd like to think it's a good quality site... it certainly hasn't been affected in any way for the keyword I target and I wouldn't expect it to.

 

[webgeek]

Matt Cutts tweeted that the change only affected a small percentage of searches - "affects 0.6% of English-US queries to a noticeable degree".

0.6% of the indexed URL's in the SERPs = 6 billion pages

I don't have up to date figures on the number of queries delivered, but suffice it to say that 0.6% of billions or trillions is not a small matter.

 

[zigojacko]

So none of it is actually on the content it's self but relying on external sources to determine if it is good or not. External sources that can be easily influenced to mimic good content.

There's tons of ways - many of which are already in force. Sure, there will always be a way of gaming systems. There will always be a way Google can devalue those gamed approaches too.

And that's coming from someone who has keywords in their domain
But anyway, none of that determines if it is a brand. Being registered say at Companies House doesn't, looking for company information on the web doesn't, and what's looking at code and copyright notices got to do with being a brand!!?? All of them may go towards being a legit business, but not a brand.
A brand is a word. A word that represents your company and philosophy, that's instantly recognisable by the masses for your core product/services. That's all it is.

The domain you are referring to is not keyword stuffed. And it is also branded. It's hardly the same as searchmarketingcompanyplymouth.co.uk is it!?

A business name can still be a brand, as with any term, symbol, mark, design or other feature that can be identified as unique, distinct from others. It amazes me how so many of you miss the bigger picture - the likes of Google have a huge amount of access to data. Any of it can be used to compare against other data which the algorithm then distributes weight based on. What I've mentioned is only a small fraction of what could be used to obtain data on a business and determine whether they are 'branded' (<insert any other term here that is not keyword stuffed domains if it makes you happier>) - the bottom line is, there are plenty of things that can be checked to come to a conclusion of whether you are running an actual business or brand rather than just chucking up junk at a domain with keywords in just to rank for them.

 

[OldWelshGuy]

This weekend has seen more than just EMD hits, I have seen impact on other sites that are non EMD and I can't see a pattern as yet. The alleged PageRank update does kind of bare this out.

 

[termsandconditions]

Yes, my EMD has plummeted from page one of Google to a distant page 14 and still dropping. I don't have a huge number of pages. Even so, I wouldn't say its a a particularly 'low quality' site.

Might just start over on Wordpress. D@mn & Bl@st.

Best Regards

 

[funkykitsch]

I still stand by my original comments. If someone called their business 'Coventry Plumber', then they are pretty stupid.

Granted, they may be real businesses and real websites. But then they should have spoken to an expert before picking such a generic and non-helpful name.

and therefore i wouldn't go to a company using a domain called "clubnetsearchmarketing"! if they were selling internet marketing

 

[Ali-v-8]

A quick update - One of my colleagues who is a web designers has 15 EDM's for desktop wallpapers. His traffic has dropped from 3,000+ (per website) a day to 60(ish) and ranking has been obliterated.
I cant but wonder if it is because he links these together.

 

[mud-stx]

i guess its a way to get rid of micro sites linking together using EDMs?

IMO this has been one of the biggest spam techniques in SEO...

 

[Chunkford]

Yes, my EMD has plummeted from page one of Google to a distant page 14 and still dropping. I don't have a huge number of pages. Even so, I wouldn't say its a a particularly 'low quality' site.

Might just start over on Wordpress. D@mn & Bl@st.

Best Regards

Should of spoke to an expert

 

[zigojacko]

and therefore i wouldn't go to a company using a domain called "clubnetsearchmarketing"! if they were selling internet marketing

Your logic is completely flawed. It's not even comparable to a company called 'Coventry Plumber' but hey, that's your choice, you'd probably prefer searchengineoptimizationcompanyplymouthunitedkingdom.co.uk - you can find them just down the road

 

[RadiusBPO]

Please don't forget that my rubbish EMDs are still ranking. A few of you on here know what they are and know they are the lowest of the low. It has nothing to do with what is quality and everything to do with smoke and mirrors destroy seo google.

 

[awebapart.com]

Matt Cutts tweeted that the change only affected a small percentage of searches - "affects 0.6% of English-US queries to a noticeable degree".

0.6% of the indexed URL's in the SERPs = 6 billion pages

I don't have up to date figures on the number of queries delivered, but suffice it to say that 0.6% of billions or trillions is not a small matter.

Yes it's a difficult stat to ponder over. You also have to ask yourself questions like what percentage of all the domain names indexed have search keywords in them, what percentage of searches have possible domains with keywords in them too.

Matt's "small percentage" of 0.6% could actually mean 100% of keyword domains, or it could mean a lot less. If they have done something simple like down-weighted the value of keywords in the domain name then you'd expect it to be a change that affects all 100% of keyword domains, considering this in isolation. But considering it overall (against the whole algorithm), since my exact match domains (EMDs) haven't witnessed a change, and some other people's EMDs here haven't either, I still think it is more of a minor change, and google aren't penalising them as much as perhaps they could, or should, do in the future.

 

[DesignerNick]

Please don't forget that my rubbish EMDs are still ranking. A few of you on here know what they are and know they are the lowest of the low. It has nothing to do with what is quality and everything to do with smoke and mirrors destroy seo google.

I happened to check what was top for web design coventry.

An EMD.com has suddenly appeared

 

[funkykitsch]

Your logic is completely flawed. It's not even comparable to a company called 'Coventry Plumber' but hey, that's your choice, you'd probably prefer searchengineoptimizationcompanyplymouthunitedkingdom.co.uk - you can find them just down the road

damn it! how did you find out i used them

 

[zigojacko]

Should of spoke to an expert

Yes, because it is really the same as naming your business Coventry Plumber of Manchester Garage isn't it.

 

[Danmill]

A quick update - One of my colleagues who is a web designers has 15 EDM's for desktop wallpapers. His traffic has dropped from 3,000+ (per website) a day to 60(ish) and ranking has been obliterated.
I cant but wonder if it is because he links these together.

Surely that is a strong argument for link network?

 

[Jolt.co.uk]

To me it is clear that Google has penalized (and will continue to) the affiliate type sites.

• affiliate sites are notoriously spammy and often not what the user is looking for - poor user UX
• affiliate styes compete with Google in some areas - less $$$ for Google
• without tarring everyone with the same brush, affiliate sites often are more likely to break rules

As anyone who has taken an interest in my signature will have seen, we're building www.ukhosting.com - an EMD for a competitive search phrase.

The site is on page 1 for G.com and page 2 for G.co.uk. No change so far. SEO efforts have been minimal so far as you'll see from the content and number of links. We're doing it very white, very safely and it is nice to see that our rankings aren't being hit. It's also worth pointing out that this is a real business providing a service... not an affiliate/comparison/top 10 style site of which I've seen plenty hit.

I do feel for all of those that have been hurt though.

Matt

 

[funkykitsch]

To me it is clear that Google has penalized (and will continue to) the affiliate type sites.

• affiliate sites are notoriously spammy and often not what the user is looking for - poor user UX
• affiliate styes compete with Google in some areas - less $$$ for Google
• without tarring everyone with the same brush, affiliate sites often are more likely to break rules

As anyone who has taken an interest in my signature will have seen, we're building www.ukhosting.com - an EMD for a competitive search phrase.

The site is on page 1 for G.com and page 2 for G.co.uk. No change so far. SEO efforts have been minimal so far as you'll see from the content and number of links. We're doing it very white, very safely and it is nice to see that our rankings aren't being hit. It's also worth pointing out that this is a real business providing a service... not an affiliate/comparison/top 10 style site of which I've seen plenty hit.

I do feel for all of those that have been hurt though.

Matt

most people aren't talking about affiliate sites - affiliates sites/scraper sites/ all of those type of sites i'm happy for G to pull the plug on them - but that's not whjat we are talking about on here....we are talking about sites like the ones you are describing doing everything white hat and then being penalised for doing things correctly.

 

[funkykitsch]

The moral of the story? Build brand equity, and don't rely on keyword stuffed domain names.

Just to go back to the original question...the owner of the thread says build a brand - so carbide media sells inbound marketing..yet if you do a search for inbound marketing - that's knowhere in the search engines - i got bored after about page 6...

 

[whichwdc]

Another question to add to the debate - does this mean the price/market for domain names is going to go downhill?

Literally just about to buy another domain name for a new project. And we really struggled as wanted keywords in the domain name. Lots of the good ones were bought and on the market to sell for ridiculous amounts of money.

I guess now we can just go for anything!

 

[fisicx]

most people aren't talking about affiliate sites - affiliates sites/scraper sites/ all of those type of sites i'm happy for G to pull the plug on them

But that is exactly what this site looks like!

Nobody is being penalised. Google is just rearranging the shelves a bit. As I keep saying, it's a FREE service. Google is not obliged to anyone to index and rank their websites. Read the google docs - it's all in there.

 

[DesignerNick]

I guess Acorn Domains is going to see a big hit. Surely a decent premium domain will now have its price slashed?

 

[funkykitsch]

But that is exactly what this site looks like!

Nobody is being penalised. Google is just rearranging the shelves a bit. As I keep saying, it's a FREE service. Google is not obliged to anyone to index and rank their websites. Read the google docs - it's all in there.

probably because the design is old hat now..but if you read the content - it actually describes what you get etc.. etc..it isn't a scraped site. The content is what people would want if they wanted a pig farming business plan - a scraped site isn't...of course you could take it further and give your product away!

 

[funkykitsch]

Another question to add to the debate - does this mean the price/market for domain names is going to go downhill?

Literally just about to buy another domain name for a new project. And we really struggled as wanted keywords in the domain name. Lots of the good ones were bought and on the market to sell for ridiculous amounts of money.

I guess now we can just go for anything!

absolutely - that's another business that has just gone down the tubes overnight...

 

[webgeek]

Just to go back to the original question...the owner of the thread says build a brand - so carbide media sells inbound marketing..yet if you do a search for inbound marketing - that's knowhere in the search engines - i got bored after about page 6...

What makes you think we sell inbound marketing? We sell bespoke online marketing solutions.

Most companies do not want to try and model their business after ours. We operate on 90% word of mouth referrals. People come to our site after having had a conversation with us, for the most part, whether it was a referral from an existing customer, one of our channel partners, a social network or forum, etc.

You may not understand our positioning, messaging and sales strategy, but you might like our growth rate, customer retention rates, and so on.

If you think SEO is a great business to catch inbound traffic and try to convert without having a conversation, you're sorely mistaken. There's a lot of noise in the channel, tire kickers, competition shoppers, and very few people who are ready to "buy SEO" from a company that they don't know and just found via a first search.

If you want to find us on Google, try terms like:
site marketing
seo glasgow
reputation management services

You won't have to scroll for most of them...

 

[OldWelshGuy]

My blog is oldwelshguy.co.uk I have been #1 for google expert for years, this weekend I dropped to #3 and a site now at #1 came from nowhere. oldwelshguy is a brand, it is not an EMD. This update was more than what they are letting on. Don't have time to dig at the moment, and it is too early, but there is more to this update than just EMD.