Europe should we stay in or get out?

[KM-Tiger]

It's a victory for democracy, and I'm pleased to see that the Dutch are already calling for their own referendum.

We are still in Europe, and we must reach out to all the democrats in other European countries and lead in a new Europe of trade, cooperation and friendship between sovereign nation states.

 

[john1989]

It's a victory for democracy, and I'm pleased to see that the Dutch are already calling for their own referendum.

We are still in Europe, and we must reach out to all the democrats in other European countries and lead in a new Europe of trade, cooperation and friendship between sovereign nation states.

TheDutch will just be the beginning. Greece next, followed by Spain and Portugal.

 

[KM-Tiger]

At least you got the flag right because NI, Scotland and Wales could well decide to leave the UK and re-join the EU in their own right.

But Wales voted to leave.

 

[john1989]

I think that looks brilliant.

How does it look now

 

[KM-Tiger]

EP pres Martin Schulz says there will be "consequences" for Britain so other EU countries are not "encouraged to follow that dangerous path"

For me that sums up what we have fought against - the tyranny of the unelected.

 

[rik_rs]

At least you got the flag right because NI, Scotland and Wales could well decide to leave the UK and re-join the EU in their own right.

I used that flag for a reason!
I don't know how many remain votes were in NI, Scotland and Wales, but that indicates that english people voting to leave, applying the due proportion (s. ni and w are around 10 millions people), are probably more than 70%, and that enforces my appreciation for this great country (England only unfortunately) made of people WHO CARE FOR FREEDOM before than money. And this doesn't mean that economy is going to be bad.
Obviously in the first months will be a mess... but that's normal.

The final result will be wonderful even for trade/money as the Oxford Projection shows (and I think it's quite pessimistic)

I think in a year England will be stronger than ever AND FOREVER without those TONS of new f....g rules imposed by the EU for the benefit of EU only and connected lobbies, not for England.

Ok, this is a business forum so it's normal to talk about money, but in this thread the remainers were money-centric: money, money, money, money, money, money. Being too materialistic in the long run doesn't pay and brings LESS money. Looking for freedom and independence does pay in any case.

By the way, I can't still believe that english people have had the strength to leave!!!
I am really impressed!!! Really!

BRAVI!!!​

Really my massive, strong, appreciation because you show me that in this world there are still people with a brain who don't give a s...t to the lobbies and their stupid tricks of giving 10 to steal 1000000 using trojan horses and building fences to limit freedom.

If Scotland vote on itself to remain in the EU, England will become stronger than ever, like a new Switzerland because It's not a matter of quantity it's a matter of quality and freedom to decide for your own interests... and only now it becomes possible, not in the EU. You can now look at 360 degree with an infinite choice.

You should be very proud of yourselves.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

I am very unhappy and concerned

 

[roydmoorian]

It's a victory for democracy

The UK has voted to leave the EU, as Paddy Ashdown has tweeted “God help our country”.

The turnout has been unprecedented in recent times most likely because “Every Vote Counts”.

Had the UK had PR (STV) in place prior to this we probably would not have had this referendum because we would be working with a moderate coalition.

What a shame that the referendum on PR in 2011 was for the alternative vote AV system and not a true PR system and so not a viable system.

http://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/alternative-vote

The electorate under the FPTP has felt disenfranchised for years, I am 66 years old and have voted in very election that I have been eligible to do so in the full knowledge that my vote would never actually made any difference to the outcome, because I was brought up and lived all my working life in a “safe seat” constituency.

 

[rik_rs]

EP pres Martin Schulz says there will be "consequences" for Britain so other EU countries are not "encouraged to follow that dangerous path"

For me that sums up what we have fought against - the tyranny of the unelected.

My point exactly!
EU is a sort of stealth nazism. Maybe is not for chance....
Nazis wanted to get rid of the clutter of small nations which made up Europe and their plan was quite simple. The EU was Hitler's dream.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...many-WON-the-Second-World-War-claims-new-book

 

[KM-Tiger]

What a shame that the referendum on PR in 2011 was for the alternative vote AV system and not a true PR system and so not a viable system.

Agreed.

We do need a different system, particularly in the 21st century. And while we are at it, it's high time to have a written constitution.

 

[rik_rs]

THE NAZIS AND FASCISTS WHO FOUNDED THE EU (And Their Influence Today)
“The European Union is based on the Nazi plans published in Berlin in 1942.”

In 2008, director of the Freenations website Rodney Atkinson — former British Ministerial Adviser, author, and lecturer at University of Mainz in Germany — sent out the following press release:
http://www.juliagorin.com/wordpress/?p=2675



What's Hitler got to do with the euro? Everything
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/...itler-got-to-do-with-the-euro-Everything.html

 

[cjd]

The lunatics are now in charge of the assylam. God help us.

The pound has crashed, the stock market will follow. There'll be another long recession with increasing unemployment. Pension funds will be damaged.

France will open their boarder with the UK and their immigration camps will move to Kent.

Longer term, international investment in the UK will decline and the financial services industry will migrate to continental Europe. Scotland will leave the UK.

There'll be a brain drain as disenchanted youth which overwhelming voted to remain leave to live and work in more enlightened parts of the world.

And we'll have exactly what the leavers wanted, a tiny, inconsequential little England fully "in control" of its own sh1tty destiny.

 

[Jack Burton]

Who won on betting leave?

I honestly didn't think we would vote to leave, its interesting and worrying to see what happens and I am one of the 52% who voted leave.

 

[john1989]

Who won on betting leave?

I honestly didn't think we would vote to leave, its interesting and worrying to see what happens and I am one of the 52% who voted leave.

I had £20 with Betfair and got 6/1 as a new customer.

 

[cjd]

its interesting and worrying to see what happens and I am one of the 52% who voted leave.

You mean you dropped the cup and just hoped it wouldn't break?

 

[Jack Burton]

It's been 3 hours since the vote came in bit early to see what happens. After all this referendum is only an advisory referendum and not legally binding, so its perfectly possible this doesn't go anywhere, especially as its so close (however I don't think that will happen).

 

[quikshop]

And we'll have exactly what the leavers wanted, a tiny, inconsequential little England fully "in control" of its own sh1tty destiny.

The whole World will react... then they'll stop reacting and we'll all wonder what the fuss was about.

Holidays will be a bit pricier for a while, exports will improve, but most importantly the EU leadership will show contrition to democracy at least in public, a new treaty will be formed which triggers another referendum and we'll be back breaking wind in the Palaces of the Mighty before you know it.

 

[Newchodge]

Bloody hell Johnson to be prime minister by October.

 

[DishonestDave]

EP pres Martin Schulz says there will be "consequences" for Britain so other EU countries are not "encouraged to follow that dangerous path"

For me that sums up what we have fought against - the tyranny of the unelected.

The EU doesn't have a whole lot of economic spool to go about punishing Britain. It may not have any. And if they do, they will be punishing themselves. The likelihood is that the real powers in Europe will rush to protect their wealth, and that means keeping trading relations much as they are now.

 

[Jack Burton]

Nigel Farage needs to be removed from the UK, or stripped of his citizenship as a charlatan and fraudster.

I enjoy how all this scaremongering about the stock markets and are blaming the people for making a mistake (The stock market was down just about the same 2 weeks ago). However following the 2008 economic crisis how many banks were rescued, how many dodgy banking practices raised and how many were then punished!

 

[quikshop]

Not usually a fan of Guardian editorials but this article by Simon Jenkins hits the nail on the head https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/24/brexit-threat-europe-visionary-outcome-debate

 

[Jack Burton]

And again, within my office people are saying whoever voted leave are racists... where has that mentality has really come from. Surely it would be anti-establishment or anti-capitalism!

 

[rik_rs]

Results per country
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/eu_referendum/results

Results city by city
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/eu_referendum/results/local/a

Wigan
Leave 63.9%

 

[Ian J]

Having originally said that if the people voted to leave he would abide by their decision and negotiate the exit it seems that Cameron has thrown his toys out of his pram and intends to resign.

I must admit that I thought better of him but he fought an increasingly dirty fight and would find it difficult to work with people that opposed his ideas but his resignation will be received cheerfully by the Labour Party that will be overjoyed at the huge chasm in the Tories that will now open up

 

[KM-Tiger]

within my office people are saying whoever voted leave are racists...

I think that is partly why the opinion polls were wrong.

People voting out for democratic reasons were sick of being branded racist bigots.

 

[Jack Burton]

I am disappointed that Cameron has decided to leave, I really want him to stay in as I do believe in his leadership.

He should have said that he won't invoke the Lisbon treaty, and will plan for a general election, and if people still want to remain they should vote for him. Thats a dirty way to fight but completely legal.

 

[WebFixer]

EU fans need not worry. If the manadarins can manage it, the referendum will be re-run in 2 years time; long enough for 1. people to forget the hoo-ha today; 2. to really frighten John Bull this time; 3. To re-assure them by telling them more lies and 4. just in time to avert formal separation.

 

[KM-Tiger]

I must admit that I thought better of him but he fought an increasingly dirty fight

Osborne was worst and really should resign.

 

[Ian J]

Interesting comment on BBC website which says:-

"The referendum has underlined the social and cultural gap between London and provincial England.

Remain's defeat seems to have been primarily the product of the decisions made by voters living north of the M4"

This shows how out of touch government is with the people that it is supposedly representing

 

[rik_rs]

The true cost of Merkel’s unchecked Euro migration
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/682522/Albania-migrants-Merkel-European-Union


What happens now the UK has voted Brexit - and what is Article 50?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ave-the-eu-what-happens-now-that-brexit-is-a/

 

[rik_rs]

Reaction in Italy

Matteo Salvini, leader of Italy's anti-immigration Northern League
"Hurrah for the courage of free citizens! Heart, brain and pride defeated lies, threats and blackmail.

"THANK YOU UK, now it's our turn."


Grande Matteo!

 

[Newchodge]

EU fans need not worry. If the manadarins can manage it, the referendum will be re-run in 2 years time; long enough for 1. people to forget the hoo-ha today; 2. to really frighten John Bull this time; 3. To re-assure them by telling them more lies and 4. just in time to avert formal separation.

You don't understand the process. Once we invoke the Lisbon treaty provisions to resign, which will be done as soon as there is a new prime minister, the only way we can stay is if all the EU members agree that we can.

 

[Jack Burton]

Yet again more comments banded around the office about racist parents have lost it for everyone and "won".

 

[quikshop]

Yet again more comments banded around the office about racist parents have lost it for everyone and "won".

lol are you working at the socialist workers HQ

 

[Jack Burton]

The whole "you're racist if you voted out" is what REALLY got my back up about this whole thing. I think this country is what it is through immigration, but I also believe that as an island with limited resources (houses, school places, health care capacity etc) it needs to be controlled to maintain standards, quality and fairness. If only they had spent that £2bn to bring in the ID cards my vote might have been very different.

 

[MBE1]

Do any leave supporters feel any sense of loss at all? Even slightly?

I find it quite sad that this huge union of countries, one of the most astonishing feats of human achievement, will go marching on without us.

I've suddenly became acutely aware that we're on this little island all by ourselves now with no one to rely on.

I find it sad that the UK had to break away, a decision I agree with, but ever since the UK joined europe it has constantly been mis-sold to the general public as a trade deal, whilst the rest of europe see it more as a political union as well as trade. With our long history of democracy, it was never going to be well accepted, hence why ALL politicans from all parties have lied about the true purpose.

Add to that the numerous times the EU has used a salami sliced tactic to get it's way, where our wishes always seemed to be overuled, you can see the reasons behind the general public not liking the EU.

What totally changed things was the New Labour policy of agreeing to allow the Poles to come and work instantly into the UK, knowing full well that the predictions of sub 30,000, which eventually turned into more than a couple of million, were wrong. They did this to annoy the tories, but in doing this they hurt a lot of their own supporters job and home prospects.

As for being on our own little island, grow a pair. We are the fifth largest economy, we will suddenly discover europe still wants to trade with us, more will leave the EU experiment, and we will find new nations more than happy to trade with us.

The banks and traders love this hysteria, they will all have made billions of £'s today, and they will continue to stir things for as long as they can, but things will settle down shortly, the sun will still rise tommorow, the moon will come out again, and the world will keep spinning.

We are at the start of an exciting time, apart from death change is the only other guarantee in life, we can still be friends with europe, who will miss us as much as we will miss them.

 

[quikshop]

I find it sad that the UK had to break away, a decision I agree with, but ever since the UK joined europe it has constantly been mis-sold to the general public as a trade deal, whilst the rest of europe see it more as a political union as well as trade. With our long history of democracy, it was never going to be well accepted, hence why ALL politicans from all parties have lied about the true purpose.

Difficult to know which bit of your post to quote from, couldn't have put it better myself. But this bit for me was the prime motivator to vote Brexit.

This assumption that the British people can so easily have the wool pulled over their eyes, coupled with what became embarrassingly ridiculous scare stories from the Treasury and abroad, all part of the same bullying tactics and perpetuating deceit about the true purpose of the EU project.

It also saddens me that it has come to this. I hope the way forwards is reconciliation and ultimately a move towards a directly democratic, transparent federated Europe of partner Countries but without the current politburo.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

The whole "you're racist if you voted out" is what REALLY got my back up about this whole thing. I think this country is what it is through immigration, but I also believe that as an island with limited resources (houses, school places, health care capacity etc) it needs to be controlled to maintain standards, quality and fairness. If only they had spent that £2bn to bring in the ID cards my vote might have been very different.

Perhaps you should reflect on the way that all the right wing racist parties in Europe are applauding this verdict. Choose your friends wisely.

 

[quikshop]

AND can someone please mussel Tony Blair? His pious declarations of wisdom are offensive on so many levels, as I am sure the family of Dr Kelly would agree.

 

[Ian J]

Perhaps you should reflect on the way that all the right wing racist parties in Europe are applauding this verdict. Choose your friends wisely.

And still the scaremongering and name calling carries on. Whilst uncontrolled immigration including the fact that we can't stop convicted rapists from Latvia settling here played a role in people's decision to vote to leave there are far more reasons that affected the voters' decisions than just that but it seems that the sore losers are happy to brand the majority of those that voted as racists as it makes them feel superior