Europe should we stay in or get out?
- Thread starter Funding for Communities
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D
Deleted member 226268
Merkel's contribution to the future of Europe.
Welcome, welcome all, come in......
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lls-woman-injures-two-new-German-outrage.html
Welcome, welcome all, come in......
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lls-woman-injures-two-new-German-outrage.html
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I HATE you. I had to go and have a look, and now I have started reading it and now I haven't got a life.
I wouldn't bother, and certainly don't comment on it unless you want your username to be banned!
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M
MBE1
Guess we look at things from a different viewpoint, I was mainly thinking of the whole generation of youths condemed to 35-50% unemployment levels, with many Greeks now earning the equivalent of £100 a week.
The EU is failing many of it's citizens, and many who are told they are better off in reality are simply more in debt.
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D
Deleted member 226268
........ with many Greeks now earning the equivalent of £100 a week.
Those must be the few who actually get paid ......
http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2016/07/20/1-2million-greeks-await-3-15-months-for-their-salaries/
I expect Italy is rapidly crumbling down into the same situation.
Mass rising unemployment for everyone throughout Europe, + waves of sponging immigrants
imposed on their environment, the native peoples are becoming very annoyed.
European countries are drowning in debt, using more debt to get themselves out of debt,
until next time.
Where are the positive answers and solutions from all those highly paid useless people
who call themselves Economists.
There are going to be some serious riots soon.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/france-and-italy-next-economic-crash-europe-a7054801.html
.
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D
Deleted member 59730
Shouldn't worry about Spain and Italy. I am sure they will keep busy making all those goods that the UK voted not to export to the EU.
I never did think that Greece should be allowed in the Eurozone. Once did an assignment for the Greek government and they were truly chaotic.
I never did think that Greece should be allowed in the Eurozone. Once did an assignment for the Greek government and they were truly chaotic.
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S
ShirleyM
Why will we not export goods to Spain and Italy? We're not part of the USA political and economical 'club' either, but we export plenty of stuff there.
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D
Deleted member 59730
Because you voted not too. You voted to no longer be part of the EEC which means we will no longer part of the club. Just how many US made cars do you see on UK roads?
The paymasters of UKIP even said that mass unemployment was a price worth paying for freedom.
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ShirleyM
You don't need to be part of the club to export to the EU. So many people think being part of the Single Market is the only way a country can sell goods to the EU, but that is incorrect. Many countries export to the EU, without being in the EU, the EEC, or EFTA.
What has US made cars to do with it? We are discussing exports, not imports. There will be no mass unemployment if we leave the EU, but I'm quite certain that will happen if free movement of people continues at this rate, or higher.
What has US made cars to do with it? We are discussing exports, not imports. There will be no mass unemployment if we leave the EU, but I'm quite certain that will happen if free movement of people continues at this rate, or higher.
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And don't forget that this club is also a customs union which means we must impose tariffs on non-EU imports. That prevents us buying cheap food, for instance, even if other parts of the world want to trade with us.
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ShirleyM
Do you believe we cannot sell to EU countries unless we are in the EU, EEA, or EFTA? You certainly imply it, going by the above comment.
If so, please explain how other countries, eg. China, who are not in the EU, EEA, or EFTA, manage to export to EU countries, and even without a trade agreement.
We will be able to sell to the EU, without being a member of the EU, EEA or EFTA, and we will be better off financially (and politically) by being outside of those customs unions.
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sirearl
The companies are american.
The US is no longer a major player in the car market,and what they do produce is not up to scratch.
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Oh, I did!
I was using it to show how your ineffective your argument was.We're still a member of the EU so of course we don't have a trade agreement. Do you even understand what you are arguing half the time?
No we won't.
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We've put up with a decade of whiney, ill-informed racists and tiny-minded nationalists complaining about the EU - you guys didn't get over it, why would you expect your opposition to? It seems the only kind of democracy you like is when you get your own way.Boring. There was a good article in The Times (a pro-remain paper btw) telling you remain-refuseniks to get over it. I recommend you take a peek
Just because the vote is over doesn't mean you can't go on making the argument, and the Remain supporters have a very strong argument and a very valid grievance over the execution of the referendum itself.
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ShirleyM
Well it is perfectly clear that you do not understand how trade works.
Trade agreements are not required in order to trade with any country. We, and the EU, trade with the USA (for example) and neither the UK or the EU has a trade agreement with the USA. If the EU refuses to trade with us after we leave, they will be in breach of international law.
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I was pointing out that we can't have a trade agreement as you describe, while still in the EU; we negotiate collectively with greater leverage and our membership conditions include not running side negotiations for trade deals. I mention it because you seem mildly confused over their nature and application.
Obviously we can trade outside of those conditions but it's more expensive for businesses to do so.
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Don't flatter yourself claiming to be my opposition; you don't qualify as worthy of the debate. I am pro-Europe and an internationalist. The current quasi-communist EU project however is not pro-Anglo Saxon so my vote was for Brexit, knowing full well that we'll get another chance in the years to come to return to the EU fold.
Your mask of faux intellect and reason has slipped good and proper there Cobby. I won't hold my breath waiting for your apology for what you clearly implied.
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We've put up with a decade of whiney, ill-informed racists and tiny-minded nationalists complaining about the EU - you guys didn't get over it, why would you expect your opposition to? It seems the only kind of democracy you like is when you get your own way.
Just because the vote is over doesn't mean you can't go on making the argument, and the Remain supporters have a very strong argument and a very valid grievance over the execution of the referendum itself.
Personally I've not had a vote go my way many times, from general elections, by elections, board room votes and what were having tea on Friday. Each and every time I've accepted the outcome and got on with life. I certainly wouldn't be still complaing about it over a month later, that has no productive value at all.
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RE: EU accounts. (I wonder if a small business was audited the way the EU is, how long could it last, with current local oversight?)
Anyhoo, I spent 10 mins searching and I post 3 links. They're a long read, but the gist I got is that, yea, the accounts are signed off. Sort of. If you change the norm on what counts as 'signing off'.
I liked this quote, as a good example of caustic invective, which I try to practice in my daily life:
"Over the past twenty five years, I have delivered hundreds of training courses in PR and Journalism to thousands of PR people and journalists. I’ve also written four books on PR and propaganda, one of which theSunday Timeswas kind enough to name as its Business Book of the Week. A key element of my workshops is to caution delegates against the temptation to try to use PR methods dishonestly to influence people. I illustrate this using the most egregious press releases sent to me over the years as examples.
In future I shall not use my collection of ‘black’ press releases. I shall instead use the press handout from the EU Court of Auditors (below) as my primary training example as it is the worst that has ever crossed my desk. In my opinion, It has everything that a press statement should not have: dissembling, deceit, weasel words, misdirection, a fog of undefined terms, arrogant condescension, and a personal attack on journalists reporting accurately and honestly. It is a clarification that it wholly lacking in clarity.
It says the EU’s accounts have been signed off but at the same time says that part of the EU’s accounts has not been signed off. It places the blame for failure to comprehend this elementary distinction on us, the public. If we think the accounts haven’t been signed off, it’s all been a “misunderstanding” on our part because we don’t understand EU accounting procedures.
Or, as George Orwell (who must be spinning at near light speed in his grave) would have said, we have not yet learned, like the EU, to practice the art of Doublethink."
http://www.richardmilton.net/have-the-eu-accounts-been-signed-off-or-not/
https://fullfact.org/europe/did-auditors-sign-eu-budget/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36276175
Anyhoo, I spent 10 mins searching and I post 3 links. They're a long read, but the gist I got is that, yea, the accounts are signed off. Sort of. If you change the norm on what counts as 'signing off'.
I liked this quote, as a good example of caustic invective, which I try to practice in my daily life:
"Over the past twenty five years, I have delivered hundreds of training courses in PR and Journalism to thousands of PR people and journalists. I’ve also written four books on PR and propaganda, one of which theSunday Timeswas kind enough to name as its Business Book of the Week. A key element of my workshops is to caution delegates against the temptation to try to use PR methods dishonestly to influence people. I illustrate this using the most egregious press releases sent to me over the years as examples.
In future I shall not use my collection of ‘black’ press releases. I shall instead use the press handout from the EU Court of Auditors (below) as my primary training example as it is the worst that has ever crossed my desk. In my opinion, It has everything that a press statement should not have: dissembling, deceit, weasel words, misdirection, a fog of undefined terms, arrogant condescension, and a personal attack on journalists reporting accurately and honestly. It is a clarification that it wholly lacking in clarity.
It says the EU’s accounts have been signed off but at the same time says that part of the EU’s accounts has not been signed off. It places the blame for failure to comprehend this elementary distinction on us, the public. If we think the accounts haven’t been signed off, it’s all been a “misunderstanding” on our part because we don’t understand EU accounting procedures.
Or, as George Orwell (who must be spinning at near light speed in his grave) would have said, we have not yet learned, like the EU, to practice the art of Doublethink."
http://www.richardmilton.net/have-the-eu-accounts-been-signed-off-or-not/
https://fullfact.org/europe/did-auditors-sign-eu-budget/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36276175
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"I'm smarter than you". What marvellous debating skills. I sure am unworthy of that.
Please accept my apologies if you inferred anything I didn't imply.
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Of course it has productive value, don't be so ridiculous. From the legal possibility of our exit being halted, down to just keeping the facts of the arguments in the forefront of the public consciousness.
So when you've voted in a general election and your party has lost, you never make another political argument or comment of any kind until the next election? I don't believe you.
Political engagement and discussion continues. That's what comes of a politically engaged people. Leave supporters can keep framing it as "complaining" or "whining" or whatever but all they are doing is disrespecting the political and democratic right of half the nation to keep making their argument. All it does is make the Leave supporters seem small-minded and petty, concerned only with the *fact* that they won and not *what* they think they won.
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D
Deleted member 59730
Please tell me what your experience is.
I have traded in the EU and around the world with major international companies.
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sirearl
Says Sir Phillip Green.
I would be surprised to learn there were countries more fraudulent than the UK.
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ShirleyM
That's pretty offensive, but par for the course with you. I know enough to know when you're telling porkies!
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Quite a few as a large number of BMW and Mercedes cars are actually manufactured in USA and it wouldn't be beyond the wit of man for BMW (USA) Inc to export cars to the UK
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