Employee Problem - What Would You Do?

Indietrader

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So we have CCTV with recording in my small shop. We have one employee who works alone. We need to refer to the footage if we have had an item stolen to identify shoplifters etc.
Today we were reviewing footage for this reason when we saw our employee GIVING AWAY a small item. A customer approached with it and got out their phone to pay. He waved them away telling them just to take it. They looked very surprised, protested and then walked away laughing. It was clear he did not know them.
This caused us to look further at what he was doing and we did see him also taking snacks and a drink and did not immediately pay for them although it is possible he does this at a different point in the day and we need to review the entire footage.
We really don't know what to do. He has been with us for about a year and has always been absolutely great; he often comes in early and does a lot of things above and beyond what is expected. Now though, we feel as though we can't trust him but we also don't think it will go well to confront him saying we watched you on the cameras. This is a mature person, not a kid who might not understand that giving stock away is not ok. He is a person though who likes to be liked and I am wondering if this is behind him doing this.
We are also in a position where if we confronted him and basically said that doing this is theft and he just left we would be in a very, very difficult situation as to running the business until we could recruit someone else.
Anyone have any comments or ideas on how to approach this?
Thank you.
 

fisicx

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Do they know you have CCTV? Either way, make sure they do. Show them where the cameras are pointed. Tell them everything is recorded. Don’t accuse them of anything, just make sure they are aware that you are watching. Then see what happens over the next few weeks.
 
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    What would I do - This is gross misconduct and their actions have a direct impact on profits, you can't allow this to continue and how can you trust this person with anything in the future? I would follow the dismissal procedure for gross misconduct.
     
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    Indietrader

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    Do they know you have CCTV? Either way, make sure they do. Show them where the cameras are pointed. Tell them everything is recorded. Don’t accuse them of anything, just make sure they are aware that you are watching. Then see what happens over the next few weeks.
    Yes they do know. We have a lot of cameras and a monitor on the counter where they can see it as we all watch it for security reasons. I don't think they would expect us to be watching them in particular and as I said we weren't initially.
     
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    Indietrader

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    What would I do - This is gross misconduct and their actions have a direct impact on profits, you can't allow this to continue and how can you trust this person with anything in the future? I would follow the dismissal procedure for gross misconduct.
    We only found this out a short while ago so we are still a bit stunned. On the one hand we feel as you do and my first words were we need to sack them but on the other hand they have been such a great staff member in so many other ways we are thinking is there any way this can be construed as them being nice and not realising that it is not acceptable. It's because the item was very, very small and very low value - so much so that I think other people would see it as ridiculous if someone said they had been sacked because of it and the police wouldn't give it a second glance.
     
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    BubbaWY

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    Yes they do know. We have a lot of cameras and a monitor on the counter where they can see it as we all watch it for security reasons. I don't think they would expect us to be watching them in particular and as I said we weren't initially.
    If they are well aware of CCTV then I dont think you really have a choice but to get rid.

    However...you say he has been a great member of staff (apart from the theiving). Only you can decide whether you give him a 2nd chance. Can you trust him not to do it again? If not, it will lead to a very unhealthy relationship where, if the takings are ever down, even if only by pennies, you will be questioning your decision to retain them.
     
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    HFE Signs

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    We only found this out a short while ago so we are still a bit stunned. On the one hand we feel as you do and my first words were we need to sack them but on the other hand they have been such a great staff member in so many other ways we are thinking is there any way this can be construed as them being nice and not realising that it is not acceptable. It's because the item was very, very small and very low value - so much so that I think other people would see it as ridiculous if someone said they had been sacked because of it and the police wouldn't give it a second glance.
    Theft is theft and generally tends to start small and get bigger - also in the future you need to treat other staff members the same way, for me it would be zero tolerance, simply because the trust has gone.

    The other option would be to explain your disappointment in your findings and ask them to explain their actions, you could record it and file it as a warning if you prefer. My problem would be trust though and they would need to convince me why I should trust them in the future.

    Remember, the customer will tell people too that they got goods for free, will this mean other people will go in looking for the same freebies? Before you know it you have people coming in and not expecting to pay for low value items.
     
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    Indietrader

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    If they are well aware of CCTV then I dont think you really have a choice but to get rid.

    However...you say he has been a great member of staff (apart from the theiving). Only you can decide whether you give him a 2nd chance. Can you trust him not to do it again? If not, it will lead to a very unhealthy relationship where, if the takings are ever down, even if only by pennies, you will be questioning your decision to retain them.
    Yes, we feel as though he is going to have to go at some point. But it is going to be almost impossible for us to run the business until we can get a replacement. So do we keep monitoring for now and building evidence and get someone else lined up?
     
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    Indietrader

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    Have you considered speaking to the employee in question, to find out what went on?
    Well this only happened a couple of hours ago so we are just gathering our thoughts. But you can clearly see it. The customer approaches with the item and gets their phone out to pay. The employee says, "take it" (can clearly see this) and then waves his hand smiling dismissing the phone. The customer protests and he again waves his hand and says take it. They kind of shrug and turn away laughing then walk out. Our employee is smiling. Then, as we watched further, he gets a snack and a drink and eats and drinks. He does not pay for either. We are watching to see whether he will pay at the end of the day. I think if we do speak to him he will quit, either because he is a thief or because he doesn't believe he is a thief and is angered that we have been watching him on the cameras. This will leave us with no staff and for personal reasons we are not able to cover. This is why I am thinking it may be best to wait and watch and record. So if he is doing this frequently we can show him evidence and he can't really dispute it. And by then we can get a new employee. I'm trying to think what is best for us and our business.
     
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    JEREMY HAWKE

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    Theft is theft and generally tends to start small and get bigger
    That's not true 37 years ago I worked as an assistant coach at Culm Valley Sports Centre. They used to sell yoghurt coated energy bars and I used to Knick then an eat them from behind the counter

    I have had no further desire to get involved in robberisation or skulduggery
     
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    fisicx

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    Are they the only employee? If not can you ask the others to cover. If they are the only employee what happens if they are sick or go on holiday? Do you have a contingency plan for emergencies?
     
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    Indietrader

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    Are they the only employee? If not can you ask the others to cover. If they are the only employee what happens if they are sick or go on holiday? Do you have a contingency plan for emergencies?
    They are the only employee. We cover for them but for personal reasons we can only do this for short periods. It took us a while to find what we thought was a good employee and I don't feel we will find a replacement within a week or two as the job requires some specialist knowledge. We overlapped when we took them on so they trained with the person who left. I do realise we cannot keep a thief on the payroll indefinitely but I am thinking if it is in OUR best interests maybe we should continue to observe and keep them in-situ while we find a replacement and gather more evidence so they can't say we were mistaken/they were going to pay for drinks and snacks at end of week etc.
     
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    ctrlbrk

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    But you can clearly see it.
    What you have is footage of what went on. What you don't have is an insight in your employee's brain or motives behind what you saw.

    There may or may not be legitimate reasons why they acted that way, but you will never know if you don't give them a chance to explain.


    If you were ill, would you trust a doctor prescribing you a powerful drug without giving them a complete picture of your medical condition? Probably not.

    So far you have only half the story. If you want to make the right business decision, make sure you are in full possession of the facts.
     
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    Indietrader

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    What you have is footage of what went on. What you don't have is an insight in your employee's brain or motives behind what you saw.

    There may or may not be legitimate reasons why they acted that way, but you will never know if you don't give them a chance to explain.


    If you were ill, would you trust a doctor prescribing you a powerful drug without giving them a complete picture of your medical condition? Probably not.

    So far you have only half the story. If you want to make the right business decision, make sure you are in full possession of the facts.
    This is good advice. I think we will wait and see what happens over the next few days first and if this is a daily occurrence. Then we will have a chat and let them explain what is going on from their point of view. If there is no valid explanation then I think they will have to go and we will just have to deal with the staffing problem as best we can. I would prefer to have a lot of evidence and to have compiled it to show them if necessary. I am really hoping that there is a valid explanation but they are just packing up to go home and so far have not paid for the drink or snack.
     
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    HFE Signs

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    That's not true 37 years ago I worked as an assistant coach at Culm Valley Sports Centre. They used to sell yoghurt coated energy bars and I used to Knick then an eat them from behind the counter

    I have had no further desire to get involved in robberisation or skulduggery
    Your case doesn't quite compare to giving away profits to random unknown customers. I think most kids would do the same as you did in that situation. If the staff member was eating the odd cake or bar of chocolate it wouldn't be quite as bad in my opinion. The issue here is that customers may well come in demanding free goods from this person knowing they are likely to oblige, especially if we're talking about teenagers!
     
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    ctrlbrk

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    This is good advice. I think we will wait and see what happens over the next few days first and if this is a daily occurrence. Then we will have a chat and let them explain what is going on from their point of view. If there is no valid explanation then I think they will have to go and we will just have to deal with the staffing problem as best we can. I would prefer to have a lot of evidence and to have compiled it to show them if necessary. I am really hoping that there is a valid explanation but they are just packing up to go home and so far have not paid for the drink or snack.
    Good. Only by giving them a chance to explain will you find if their explanation is plausible or not.

    Especially if they are aware that there is a camera and they are being recorded, I would absolutely ask them questions about their behaviour, before taking any decision.
     
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    Indietrader

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    Your case doesn't quite compare to giving away profits to random unknown customers. I think most kids would do the same as you did in that situation. If the staff member was eating the odd cake or bar of chocolate it wouldn't be quite as bad in my opinion. The issue here is that customers may well come in demanding free goods from this person knowing they are likely to oblige, especially if we're talking about teenagers!
    The funny thing is this was not like a chatty, friendly customer. It was a quite demure, quiet-looking person who had not had any interaction or anything. They were not a teenager. They seemed genuinely astonished they were told not to pay. I just keep thinking why would an employee do this! Showing off? I kind of wish we had never seen it as it's thrown everything up in the air but the fact we did see it after only several minutes looking at the video worries me. A massive coincidence? Or would we see a lot more if we started going through. Doesn't bear thinking about.
     
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    Indietrader

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    Like many threads on these situations why oh why are you making excuses for your employee, they know the cameras are there, theft is theft, as already mentioned this is gross misconduct, stop making excuses and take immediate action.
    Yeah, I know. It's very hard when you are totally reliant on them for the day to day functioning of the business; I have health issues and letting them go means I will be working 7 days a week or closed until I can find another decent employee. So this is why I said it might be in my own best interests to find another employee first. But I have been reading up about gross misconduct procedure this evening. I will be speaking to them tomorrow in an initial interview where they will have an opportunity to give their side. I wouldn't be surprised if they then just quit. If not, and if their explanation is not satisfactory, I will arrange a disciplinary meeting.
     
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    Lucan Unlordly

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    Yeah, I know. It's very hard when you are totally reliant on them for the day to day functioning of the business; I have health issues and letting them go means I will be working 7 days a week or closed until I can find another decent employee. So this is why I said it might be in my own best interests to find another employee first. But I have been reading up about gross misconduct procedure this evening. I will be speaking to them tomorrow in an initial interview where they will have an opportunity to give their side. I wouldn't be surprised if they then just quit. If not, and if their explanation is not satisfactory, I will arrange a disciplinary meeting.
    I think at this stage you are jumping the gun. Maybe the customer trying to pay on his phone didn't know how to or had run out of battery and your employee thought it a gesture of good will, albeit misplaced?
    At the moment you have evidence of one forgetful moment in relation to non payment of a snack and drink. If it's a regular occurrence you'll capture it on camera in a couple of days and feel a whole lot better about any action you take.

    I don't mean to add to your concerns but something you've said rings alarm bells and that's, 'He has been with us for about a year and has always been absolutely great; he often comes in early and does a lot of things above and beyond what is expected.'
    My working life started in food retail where petty theft by staff, even eating broken packets of biscuits, was a sackable offence. The real villains though, were smart, often starting early and working late to cover their tracks, making sure they were the one's cashing up the till, tallying the books. In one case the highly thought of butchery manager was tucking sirloin steaks in his socks and taping them to his ankles. He always worked later than normal, offering to lock up as the coast was clear.
     
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    Indietrader

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    I think at this stage you are jumping the gun. Maybe the customer trying to pay on his phone didn't know how to or had run out of battery and your employee thought it a gesture of good will, albeit misplaced?
    At the moment you have evidence of one forgetful moment in relation to non payment of a snack and drink. If it's a regular occurrence you'll capture it on camera in a couple of days and feel a whole lot better about any action you take.

    I don't mean to add to your concerns but something you've said rings alarm bells and that's, 'He has been with us for about a year and has always been absolutely great; he often comes in early and does a lot of things above and beyond what is expected.'
    My working life started in food retail where petty theft by staff, even eating broken packets of biscuits, was a sackable offence. The real villains though, were smart, often starting early and working late to cover their tracks, making sure they were the one's cashing up the till, tallying the books. In one case the highly thought of butchery manager was tucking sirloin steaks in his socks and taping them to his ankles. He always worked later than normal, offering to lock up as the coast was clear.
    Yes I have been thinking this myself and they do have responsibility to cash up. And unbelievably we just watched some more footage of yesterday and they gave away a second item to a different customer. This is within one day. I don't think I can go much further into detail on what I am going to do or what I have seen but I will be there before them to investigate all of this this morning.
     
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    BubbaWY

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    Yes I have been thinking this myself and they do have responsibility to cash up. And unbelievably we just watched some more footage of yesterday and they gave away a second item to a different customer. This is within one day. I don't think I can go much further into detail on what I am going to do or what I have seen but I will be there before them to investigate all of this this morning.
    Have you checked the takings to see whether they balance? Do you have an EPOS system to check the products which he took, he may have paid for earlier or after the event?

    Could your employee be helping himself to things during the week, and then pay for anything he has taken on pay day?
     
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    MBE2017

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    Deep down, you know what you need to do OP, just get it done.

    Over the years I have always had a simple rule, a thief is gotten rid of, you can never trust them fully in the future. If you are paying a fair wage you should expect decent treatment in return as standard. Even when I have explained to staff do not steal, ask and I will get the item for them for free, plenty have still stolen, and once you get rid you start to realise usually it was much worse than you ever realised at the time.
     
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    fantheflames

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    Bit of a tricky situation IMO!

    It looks like he is extremely valuable to the business and without your intervention, he doesn't know that what he's doing is damaging to the business.

    Are these regular customers he's giving freebies to? Or was there a specific reason why he was giving away items for free? Whether it was once or twenty five times, you'll want to explain to him that items can't be given away for free as it impacts the business in multiple ways.

    As a business owner, If I saw that my employee is not doing the right thing, I will always give them the benefit of the doubt if it's out of character because my intervention could damage our working relationship. So if I know they are valuable to the business, I would directly speak with them mostly using the sandwich method. I find this very good for employees that are people pleasers, which sounds like this man is and could be useful for you to provide constructive criticism with.

    Again, I would probably handle it as an informal chat. If I haven't recognised them for their hardwork, I'd probably organise a voucher for them. I'd step them aside and praise them for something they have done recently i.e. coming in early.

    I would then mention about seeing items being given away on the CCTV and ask was there a specific reason. If there was, I'd hear it. If there wasn't, I would reiterate that we can't do it going forward.

    Then I would thank them for their work, and explain they are a valuable member of the team and present them with a voucher.

    Morale not impacted and the important message was delivered.
     
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    Newchodge

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    May I suggest that your business has a much deeper problem than this employee? They run your business. You cannot do without them, Without them your business doe not exist. They work alone, no one knows what they are doing.

    The proper thing to do is to have a conversation with them about the incidents you have seen. Listen to their explanation and, if it is in anyway unsatisfactory, dismiss them.

    But you can't, because without them your business doe not exist. What ever you do about this employee you must make some fundamental changes to the way you run your business. Perhaps 2 members of staff on part time contracts?
     
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    cjd

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    So this guy that you like, who turns up on time and does far more than he's paid to do gave away a small item to a customer and might have taken a snacks and drinks, but you don't know this for sure.
    He's also alone in the store all day (and presumably open and closes himself?) And you can't replace him anyway. He sounds like an extremely valuable employee to me.

    Based only on this account I'd say that the guy was operating the shop as though it was his own, not actually harming anything, just behaving like an owner might. I think talk of firing him instantly is just plain silly. I'd just mention that you saw this whilst looking for something else and you didn't like it so please don't do it again. I'd also say that it's ok to take the odd drink/snack within reason but to please leave a note to say you've done it so that stock is controlled. Don't even mention theft. If you want to keep this guy and let him run your business for you, you need to give a little or change the way you're organised, which will cost a lot more than a few free snacks.
     
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    fantheflames

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    May I suggest that your business has a much deeper problem than this employee? They run your business. You cannot do without them, Without them your business doe not exist. They work alone, no one knows what they are doing.

    The proper thing to do is to have a conversation with them about the incidents you have seen. Listen to their explanation and, if it is in anyway unsatisfactory, dismiss them.

    But you can't, because without them your business doe not exist. What ever you do about this employee you must make some fundamental changes to the way you run your business. Perhaps 2 members of staff on part time contracts?

    This is a great suggestion! Perhaps if more issues arise with your amazing but questionable employee, then OP could reduce their hours and hire a second person?
     
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    BusterBloodvessel

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    Very interesting one this. Out of interest, what is the actual value? One mans low value may be different to another.

    I think the strange thing is - especially when accusing of theft and "it will only get worse" etc - are that he is not benefitting from this in the slightest. So what could his motivation possibly be?

    It could be that he thinks he is benefitting the business creating a friendly / "they really helped me out" kind of vibe. Especially if as someone mentions above he is kind of acting in a way that he owns/runs the shop and that is going to his head a little bit in a daft but almost harmless power trip. But that doesn't fit with what you said about the customers not being particularly friendly or regulars etc.

    it could be pure laziness that he can't be arsed putting a sale through the till and card machine for what he sees as a worthless amount?

    If someone had just spent £100 on something and then said "oh while I'm here I'll have this keyring for 30p" I could understand him going "oh don't worry, take it". In the past when I was in sound and lights I used to quite often bob in the music & P.A. shop for a couple of fuses (80p each) or a couple of screws and i would be waved away without paying especially if the guys were busy with their heads in a repair job or serving other people...... but, you know, I was in there probably every couple of weeks and had been for years spending hundreds if not thousands on equipment so an 80p fuse here and there was a drop in the ocean.

    I would be more inclined to err on the side of caution/curiosity personally than jumping straight to fire him as some have suggested. Mainly because I don't see what his motive is.

    Keep us posted OP!
     
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    macScot

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    You should consider tightening up the control measures so that there is no doubt about this now or in the future no matter who you employ. :

    Write up clearly defined standard operating procedures
    Put into place a method of logging items given to customers without payment with reasons e.g. some businesses could have legit reasons for giving away an item due to customer complaint etc. ideally have options on the sales register to account for this and procedures such as receipts must always be given out to customers even if a £0.00 sale i.e. a genuine giveaway if this is allowed for any reason, or set a procedure where a customer complaint can be dealt with by you instead if you do not want to allow this.

    Set clear terms in the employment contract in relation to stock handling, not giving out items without logging as defined, and also measures and procedures for taking items for personal consumption e.g. lunch, what is allowed and how it should be logged straightaway and how they would be paid for e.g. deducted from wages or cash and at what price e.g. staff price, etc.

    I do concur with others that this is gross misconduct, and if you cannot trust them then you need to replace them asap.
    However, if you are going to give them an opportunity then in my opinion you need to make them understand how this affects you rather than approaching it as a disciplinary action if you want to keep them on your side and learn from it.

    The problem you have is that if the employee is dishonest they will continue stealing and may start looking for your camera blindspots or other ways of getting stuff out.

    Ideally, you should have a sales system that logs all individual items in and out and do regular stock checks of fast-moving and costly items.
     
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    Lucan Unlordly

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    and once you get rid you start to realise usually it was much worse than you ever realised at the time.
    I managed a small branch of a national supermarket chain, a corner shop with half a dozen staff. When I arrived I was told that Mabel who'd been there for over15 years was a diamond, the go to person who was a great ally in times of need, would come in when others were off sick, would open and close the shop etc.,

    Mabel's role was to jump on the second till during busy times, to cash up at the end of each day, to do the banking etc., So ruthlessly efficient was she that a halfpenny out in the till float would see her counting and recounting, checking the till rolls until the error was found. Except she wasn't.....

    Mabel's modus operandi was to have an acquaintance come into the shop during a busy lunch time, load a couple of baskets to the brim and be served by her and her only. She had two ways of doing things, ringing up half of the items so taking a tenner for £20 worth of goods, or ringing up all the items and removing them from the till roll (looking for the missing halfpenny) and stealing some money when she cashed up.

    6 months after I left a sting operation was put in place, she was caught red handed and instantly dismissed. With a smirk on her face she turned to the area manager escorting her out the door and said 'it took you over 15 years to catch me'!
     
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    WaveJumper

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    Ive been involved in both small format and large format retailing and could write a book on the fraud staff and managers have perpetrated ranging from several thousands of pounds too hundreds of thousands. If you have people "looking after" your money and even if you think you have foolproof systems in place I can place a bet now that someone will be skimming money out of your business.

    As alluded to above it is generally those you least suspect. Ive said this on other threads if you employ people make sure you have proper HR systems in place to deal with these and other HR issues when they surface ........... and not run around playing catch up.

    It will be interesting to see how our OP gets on dealing with this issue
     
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    IanSuth

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    Ive been involved in both small format and large format retailing and could write a book on the fraud staff and managers have perpetrated ranging from several thousands of pounds too hundreds of thousands. If you have people "looking after" your money and even if you think you have foolproof systems in place I can place a bet now that someone will be skimming money out of your business.
    A classic one from near me


    He was putting in fake invoices and paying them. He also caused a local football team issues as some of the invoices were for shirt sponsorship but the amount he paid them was not what he out through on the invoices (he was FD of the local FA as well)

    To quote another news source

    "Hopes, who earned £56,000 a year and had been at the company for 23 years, was only caught out when a neighbour of Ms Dunbar reported her to the police suspecting she was a drug dealer because of her lavish lifestyle without an obvious source of income."
     
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    Rose-marie Bon

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    So we have CCTV with recording in my small shop. We have one employee who works alone. We need to refer to the footage if we have had an item stolen to identify shoplifters etc.
    Today we were reviewing footage for this reason when we saw our employee GIVING AWAY a small item. A customer approached with it and got out their phone to pay. He waved them away telling them just to take it. They looked very surprised, protested and then walked away laughing. It was clear he did not know them.
    This caused us to look further at what he was doing and we did see him also taking snacks and a drink and did not immediately pay for them although it is possible he does this at a different point in the day and we need to review the entire footage.
    We really don't know what to do. He has been with us for about a year and has always been absolutely great; he often comes in early and does a lot of things above and beyond what is expected. Now though, we feel as though we can't trust him but we also don't think it will go well to confront him saying we watched you on the cameras. This is a mature person, not a kid who might not understand that giving stock away is not ok. He is a person though who likes to be liked and I am wondering if this is behind him doing this.
    We are also in a position where if we confronted him and basically said that doing this is theft and he just left we would be in a very, very difficult situation as to running the business until we could recruit someone else.
    Anyone have any comments or ideas on how to approach this?
    Thank you.
    Firstly, do you have policies in place which are clear to your employee about what is expected of them. Do you have a CCTV policy in place? Is your employee aware you are using CCTV? Do you have a sign up in the shop showing the pubic that you are using CCTV? I don't think you should confront him at this point, I strongly believe you should be more clear on what is expected and put policies and procedures in place so there is no room for a misunderstanding in the future
     
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    Newchodge

    Moderator
  • Business Listing
    Nov 8, 2012
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    Newcastle
    Firstly, do you have policies in place which are clear to your employee about what is expected of them. Do you have a CCTV policy in place? Is your employee aware you are using CCTV? Do you have a sign up in the shop showing the pubic that you are using CCTV? I don't think you should confront him at this point, I strongly believe you should be more clear on what is expected and put policies and procedures in place so there is no room for a misunderstanding in the future
    I don't really think you need a policy stating that someone working in a shop should not give stock away for nothing.
     
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    WaveJumper

    Free Member
  • Business Listing
    Aug 26, 2013
    6,632
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    2,401
    Essex
    Firstly, do you have policies in place which are clear to your employee about what is expected of them. Do you have a CCTV policy in place? Is your employee aware you are using CCTV? Do you have a sign up in the shop showing the pubic that you are using CCTV? I don't think you should confront him at this point, I strongly believe you should be more clear on what is expected and put policies and procedures in place so there is no room for a misunderstanding in the future
    Its a good point on the CCTV issue back in the day I have seen several cases go completely paired shaped when in court due to the police (of all people) not following the correct procedures when requesting CCTV footage from retailers.

    On HR policies agree again follow the rule book, one of the last cases I was involved with, fortunately I was only available to take minutes of the disciplinary procedures at that time and although I criticised the board on their handling (to no avail) they ended up in a tribunal and even though this person was guilty of said crime the board members who had to attend the hearting were made to look pretty stupid due to not following proper policies cost then £110k .......

    So yes best to make sure you do it right
     
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