Employee mobile phone use

[Paulzx]

I'm sure this has been discussed at some point, I can't be the only one to have noticed this but I'm seeing a distinct problem with my employees using their mobile phones at work. Now in their contract, it states specifically that phones cannot be used for personal activity during work hours, however, they tend to ignore this and I find myself catching them using their phones multiple times during the day.

To give a bit of context, they are generally good employees who get the work done but of course they would probably get more work done if they weren't messing about messaging people constantly through the day. I have constantly brought this to various people's attention and they acknowledge they shouldn't do it, agree not to do it, then carry on. You always get the old excuse of things like sometimes it's an emergency with the kids etc etc.

I'm trying to avoid giving any official warnings on this because I don't want to get them offside and cause myself a bigger headache of having to replace anyone. We've had some stern words and it has improved, but now what I'm seeing is extended toilet breaks multiple times a day where they are basically sitting there on their phone!

It's very frustrating because now I'm having to question people's lengthy toilet breaks. Short of banning mobile phones altogether in the workplace, I can't think of a good way to solve this, it seems to be yet another culture problem.

So has anyone tackled this with any degree of success or are the Employers amongst us just putting up with it?

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

Do they have somewhere to leave their phone e.g. locker?

What does your staff handbook say in relation phones?

Short of banning mobile phones altogether in the workplace

What is wrong with this?

 

[Newchodge]

Short of banning mobile phones altogether in the workplace

WHat is the problem with banning them, Of course, if you do, you will have to follow through with action if people ignore the ban. The problem you have at the moment is that yu have forgotten you are dealing with 5 year olds who know they should not do something but know, from experience, that nothing will happen to them if they do it.

Issue an emergency number that staff can give out to be used in an emergency and ban the things.

 

[Paulzx]

Do they have somewhere to leave their phone e.g. locker?

What does your staff handbook say in relation phones?


What is wrong with this?

They don't have lockers, although if it got to that point I'm sure I could supply that

The only mention of phone use is in the employment contract, but as I say, they take no notice.

What's wrong with banning the phones? Nothing fundamentally, except their expectancy to be able to have the phones with them. I have mentioned this and the reaction was disbelief as if to say 'you can't do that!' which of course I can, but then I'm sure I'm going to lose co-operation and that's the tricky line I'm walking.

It's a problem because we're a small team - 5-6 people and I want the guys to value their job and enjoy their work, which they do at the moment, but once you do something they deem to be unfair, you lose the goodwill and it's downhill from there. I don't know at what point people decided they have an automatic right to use their phones in the work place, but evidently they do think that.

 

[Paulzx]

WHat is the problem with banning them, Of course, if you do, you will have to follow through with action if people ignore the ban. The problem you have at the moment is that yu have forgotten you are dealing with 5 year olds who know they should not do something but know, from experience, that nothing will happen to them if they do it.

Issue an emergency number that staff can give out to be used in an emergency and ban the things.

They know full well that anyone with an emergency can phone the office land line so it's just an excuse. What tends to happen is that they guys with young kids seem to get constant updates from the mothers, and if little Johnny falls over or stubs his toe, it's a drama they have to know about!

You're right on the mentality thing, it is a bit like that, you have to tell them hundreds of times not to do something. At some point you question whether it's even worth your time, and just let them get on with it. I have trouble relating to it because I never did this as an employee, but that was largely before the mass use of mobile phones. Like a lot of younger generations, they just think they're entitled to it.

If I do ban the phones, I run the risk of getting them offside and giving myself a bigger problem though.

 

[fisicx]

But if you don't ban then the problem won't go away.

Maybe start with the warning then if you catch them again they will be forced to secure their phone. Phone lockers are readily available.

Once the first person gets the ban hammer the rest will soon comply.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

their expectancy to be able to have the phones with them

How did they get that expectancy? From you?

Change it!

 

[IanSuth]

Why not go the other way

Phones are to be set on do not disturb during office hours and placed on top of something just above head height when they are at desk.

Almost all phones allow for a call to come through if phoned twice in quick succession (in case of emergency) and by having the phone there (but the screen not visible) you can see if someone picks it up as they go to the loo or keep checking it. Tell them the alternative is lockers

Phone locker is only useful if people use it and as it is a locker you can't see the phone isnt in their pocket and my solution is cheaper if it works and if it doesnt revert to planA

 

[Paulzx]

But if you don't ban then the problem won't go away.

Maybe start with the warning then if you catch them again they will be forced to secure their phone. Phone lockers are readily available.

Once the first person gets the ban hammer the rest will soon comply.

Yep I think that's probably a good approach

 

[Paulzx]

How did they get that expectancy? From you?

Change it!

Of course they didn't get it from me, did you read what I said about their contract?
What I'm saying is the younger generations have these expectancies regardless, the same as they have an expectancy to be paid lots of money for doing very little work

 

[Paulzx]

Why not go the other way

Phones are to be set on do not disturb during office hours and placed on top of something just above head height when they are at desk.

Almost all phones allow for a call to come through if phoned twice in quick succession (in case of emergency) and by having the phone there (but the screen not visible) you can see if someone picks it up as they go to the loo or keep checking it. Tell them the alternative is lockers

Phone locker is only useful if people use it and as it is a locker you can't see the phone isnt in their pocket and my solution is cheaper if it works and if it doesnt revert to planA

Good idea Ian, I'll try this!

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

Of course they didn't get it from me, did you read what I said about their contract?

So, it is in their contract and you did/do not enforce it!

 

[Newchodge]

It is difficult. I was a team leader in the passport office where it was a disciplinary offence for a mobile phone to be visible anywhere other than the break room. Then Covid hit and the rule was relaxed so people could be sure of getting any information they needed. When there were no more covid restrictions the rule was supposed to be re-introduced, but it was absolute hell getting people to put their phones away - older and younger staff.

 

[BusterBloodvessel]

Although you should just be able to ban them, I do get fully what you mean about trying to keep them motivated and not appear draconian with your approach. What does the business do - could you give an additional/alternative reason for them not using them?

We did this with our sandwich shop - we had a front shop serving area and a back private kitchen area. We made it clear that it gave the wrong image, not to mention there’s potential hygiene issues, if staff had their phones out in the shop front in front of customers (in fact I think we told them we’d had an customer complaint that had brought it to our attention). So phones in the front was banned. However it then meant it was unfair that people in the front couldn’t quickly use their phone but the people in the back kitchen could, so in the interests of fairness we banned them from the kitchen too. Phones had to be left in the entrance area where they left coats, bags etc.

It was still banning it but it kind of gave more of a reason than us just saying “we want you to be working constantly and not stealing the odd minute off us” if you know what I mean? It was giving some justification around the appearance to customer and complaints rather than us just being focused on the minutes they’re working. But yes of course, that was the real reason behind it!

 

[Paulzx]

So, it is in their contract and you did/do not enforce it!

I think you need to re-read my original post

 

[Paulzx]

It is difficult. I was a team leader in the passport office where it was a disciplinary offence for a mobile phone to be visible anywhere other than the break room. Then Covid hit and the rule was relaxed so people could be sure of getting any information they needed. When there were no more covid restrictions the rule was supposed to be re-introduced, but it was absolute hell getting people to put their phones away - older and younger staff.

Yep I can imagine. A lot of things happened during that period which were difficult to reverse.

 

[Newchodge]

I think you need to re-read my original post

You have a binary choice. Ban mobile phones during work hours or don't. Currently they are banned with your apparent agreement that the ban will not be enforced. So why have a ban?

 

[Paulzx]

Although you should just be able to ban them, I do get fully what you mean about trying to keep them motivated and not appear draconian with your approach. What does the business do - could you give an additional/alternative reason for them not using them?

We did this with our sandwich shop - we had a front shop serving area and a back private kitchen area. We made it clear that it gave the wrong image, not to mention there’s potential hygiene issues, if staff had their phones out in the shop front in front of customers (in fact I think we told them we’d had an customer complaint that had brought it to our attention). So phones in the front was banned. However it then meant it was unfair that people in the front couldn’t quickly use their phone but the people in the back kitchen could, so in the interests of fairness we banned them from the kitchen too. Phones had to be left in the entrance area where they left coats, bags etc.

It was still banning it but it kind of gave more of a reason than us just saying “we want you to be working constantly and not stealing the odd minute off us” if you know what I mean? It was giving some justification around the appearance to customer and complaints rather than us just being focused on the minutes they’re working. But yes of course, that was the real reason behind it!

Not totally unlike my situation really. You have to keep them on side whatever you tell them!

We are a sign manufacturing company, the guys go from working in the office to workshop and out fitting, so it's very difficult to Police any ban on phones because unless they don't have them in their possession, they will just do it when you can't see them. They still do it in the office though.

It would be difficult to give a 'third party' reason to tell them they can't use them. I can see how that worked in your situation and you justified it by the complaint. My issue is that to put a stop to it I have to be really blunt about it and then they take umbridge and disappear into the toilet for 15-20 mins at a time.
If they were easily replaced I would just give the usual warnings and sack them if necessary but I don't want to end up getting rid of anyone over it if possible.

Maybe I should just nag them to death and wear them down like they wear me down lol.

 

[Paulzx]

You have a binary choice. Ban mobile phones during work hours or don't. Currently they are banned with your apparent agreement that the ban will not be enforced. So why have a ban?

They aren't banned in the contract, they are just forbidden from using them for personal use during work hours. I could change that to a total ban but that's when I'm going to lose people and get issues

 

[Michael Barnes]

I'm sure this has been discussed at some point, I can't be the only one to have noticed this but I'm seeing a distinct problem with my employees using their mobile phones at work. Now in their contract, it states specifically that phones cannot be used for personal activity during work hours, however, they tend to ignore this and I find myself catching them using their phones multiple times during the day.

To give a bit of context, they are generally good employees who get the work done but of course they would probably get more work done if they weren't messing about messaging people constantly through the day. I have constantly brought this to various people's attention and they acknowledge they shouldn't do it, agree not to do it, then carry on. You always get the old excuse of things like sometimes it's an emergency with the kids etc etc.

I'm trying to avoid giving any official warnings on this because I don't want to get them offside and cause myself a bigger headache of having to replace anyone. We've had some stern words and it has improved, but now what I'm seeing is extended toilet breaks multiple times a day where they are basically sitting there on their phone!

It's very frustrating because now I'm having to question people's lengthy toilet breaks. Short of banning mobile phones altogether in the workplace, I can't think of a good way to solve this, it seems to be yet another culture problem.

So has anyone tackled this with any degree of success or are the Employers amongst us just putting up with it?

Something no one else seems to have mentioned here: You've already mentioned that they do get their work done, but, do they also go over and above when required, working a bit of extra time here and there without claiming overtime? Do they regularly work through lunch breaks like a lot of office staff do, or are they the sort of employees that always take their full break entitlement, and only work their contract hours and that's it?
If your employees are flexible and business focused then you might want to be careful trying to clamp down on them, they may very well decide that if that's the companies attitude then they will simply do the contracted work and that's all. You then lose any goodwill with the staff.

It really depends on your working environment and the type of work they do, but if it's not harming productivity, then you might be better off leaving it alone. Don't get me wrong, I know exactly how you feel, I have a member of staff that is regularly checking his phone (answering his video door bell is the most common thing), but he gets his work done and regularly has lunch at his desk and doesn't take the full hour, so although it does sometimes wind me up, I just have to remember that flexibility goes both ways.

 

[thetiger2015]

As above. You have to be careful of Employee Infantalisation - if you make them feel like children, they'll act like children and will either leave or just give up putting any effort in because you take on the role of parent.

I've never worked anywhere with a phone ban, other than for safety issues around electrical devices/if you're in a meeting then obviously, phones on silent - to add, nobody has ever needed to be told to put a phone on silent. If one rings, we don't care, they just switch it off...because they're adults.

 

[Richard Dastardly]

Not sure if in the thread you have said what the line of business is? Maybe I missed it. But that is significant.

For instance a sales company vs a coffee shop is a big difference between mobile phone use.

My business was a PR agency, and the life of the agency went through the rise of basic mobile phones through to smart phones.

But in the end I allowed the use because technically they needed it for work - social media, journalists or clients contacting their mobile for example. Before that, they were using MSN messenger to message each other all day.

But I just didn’t think I could police the messenger thing and didn’t attempt to - so I turned a blind eye.

At the end of the day, if my team delivered and did their work then there was no issue and I figured if I banned msn messenger then they would use something else.

Instead of using a blanket ban, I aimed to make my staff so busy that they had no time to mess about on their phones. That would be a more positive way to approach it.

If I had a customer faced business like a supermarket or a gym or something then I would ban them on the shop floor.

But for a sales type business I think you’d be shooting yourself in the foot to ban them.

 

[ekm]

I'm glad some posters have put the other side of the coin forward because I did note there doesn't seem to be a productivity problem, more a case of a speculation that more work could perhaps be done if they didn't use their phones. I'd urge some thought to whether there actually is benefit from clamping down, enough to offset any ill feeling caused by it.

Before becoming an analyst in IT I worked in the steel industry in a CAD department (it was a weird opportunistic jump I'll grant you that). At the steel job we had a literal blanket rule of no phone at any time. I recall it not really being enforced until it was raised to the attention of HR (one person department) and they made it a sport to try and detect it as much as possible and it was very draconian, basically they just lost a lot of respect and evading detection became a sport in itself. I actually think there were grounds for a phone ban in some instances as heavy equipment was being used (cranes, forklifts and so forth) - ban extended into our office and it just annoyed people and was seen as a ban for the sake of a ban, any gain in productivity from not being able to check your messages once in a while would have been immeasurable. It lowered respect for authority and even my manager would lurk behind one of the laser cutters out of the cameras field of view if he had to speak to his wife because *i work to support my family, but family first*.

When I worked in IT the culture was absolutely the opposite, to the point it caused a lot of anxiety because of how fundamentally wrong being at work suddenly felt - it took me nearly a year to acclimatise to the whole concept of 'what, I can do whatever I want as long as my work gets done', and that includes using the phone. I'm sure you if you spent all day on the phone in the office jabbering to a friend someone would say something, but literally nobody cares if you check your phone now and then or even take a call, or surf the web for a bit. In fact, it wasn't unusual to go down the pub for lunch which would extend for another hour and even managers would sometimes come. I'm not on good terms with my employer at the minute for other reasons but that was a total different concept and yeah, I can't vouch for others, but i can vouch for me - I always got my work done. I just didn't have someone breathing down my neck and I felt like a professional not a high school kid.

So yeah, not going to tell you what to do, but do you think it's going to have a measurable benefit given what you've said about work getting done?

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Mobile phone use is the modern equivalent of the cigarette break except every one's 'on it'!

No point using Lockers, they'll just bring another phone in or borrow someone else's.

Hold a meeting at the end of the day, at going home time. Keep them waiting for 20 minutes, arrive late and apologise telling them you were on level 7 of Candy Crush? Might be too subtle for some but.....

 

[LPB 123]

At the end of the day, if my team delivered and did their work then there was no issue and I figured if I banned msn messenger then they would use something else.

Instead of using a blanket ban, I aimed to make my staff so busy that they had no time to mess about on their phones. That would be a more positive way to approach it.

I agree with this approach

 

[Paulzx]

Something no one else seems to have mentioned here: You've already mentioned that they do get their work done, but, do they also go over and above when required, working a bit of extra time here and there without claiming overtime? Do they regularly work through lunch breaks like a lot of office staff do, or are they the sort of employees that always take their full break entitlement, and only work their contract hours and that's it?
If your employees are flexible and business focused then you might want to be careful trying to clamp down on them, they may very well decide that if that's the companies attitude then they will simply do the contracted work and that's all. You then lose any goodwill with the staff.

It really depends on your working environment and the type of work they do, but if it's not harming productivity, then you might be better off leaving it alone. Don't get me wrong, I know exactly how you feel, I have a member of staff that is regularly checking his phone (answering his video door bell is the most common thing), but he gets his work done and regularly has lunch at his desk and doesn't take the full hour, so although it does sometimes wind me up, I just have to remember that flexibility goes both ways.

That is the issue, the goodwill of the workers. My guys don't really do the above though, they pull their finger out when they need to but they certainly don't work lunch times or over time without being paid.
If that were the case I probably wouldn't pursue it.

 

[Paulzx]

Not sure if in the thread you have said what the line of business is? Maybe I missed it. But that is significant.

For instance a sales company vs a coffee shop is a big difference between mobile phone use.

My business was a PR agency, and the life of the agency went through the rise of basic mobile phones through to smart phones.

But in the end I allowed the use because technically they needed it for work - social media, journalists or clients contacting their mobile for example. Before that, they were using MSN messenger to message each other all day.

But I just didn’t think I could police the messenger thing and didn’t attempt to - so I turned a blind eye.

At the end of the day, if my team delivered and did their work then there was no issue and I figured if I banned msn messenger then they would use something else.

Instead of using a blanket ban, I aimed to make my staff so busy that they had no time to mess about on their phones. That would be a more positive way to approach it.

If I had a customer faced business like a supermarket or a gym or something then I would ban them on the shop floor.

But for a sales type business I think you’d be shooting yourself in the foot to ban them.

I am tending to agree. They do use their phones for the odd thing for work, I just wish they wouldn't abuse it and give me yet another problem to tackle. That made me laugh what you said about making them busy, I have actually tried that tactic and I'm sure it works, but i did find it also made me more busy trying to make them busy!

 

[Paulzx]

I'm glad some posters have put the other side of the coin forward because I did note there doesn't seem to be a productivity problem, more a case of a speculation that more work could perhaps be done if they didn't use their phones. I'd urge some thought to whether there actually is benefit from clamping down, enough to offset any ill feeling caused by it.

Before becoming an analyst in IT I worked in the steel industry in a CAD department (it was a weird opportunistic jump I'll grant you that). At the steel job we had a literal blanket rule of no phone at any time. I recall it not really being enforced until it was raised to the attention of HR (one person department) and they made it a sport to try and detect it as much as possible and it was very draconian, basically they just lost a lot of respect and evading detection became a sport in itself. I actually think there were grounds for a phone ban in some instances as heavy equipment was being used (cranes, forklifts and so forth) - ban extended into our office and it just annoyed people and was seen as a ban for the sake of a ban, any gain in productivity from not being able to check your messages once in a while would have been immeasurable. It lowered respect for authority and even my manager would lurk behind one of the laser cutters out of the cameras field of view if he had to speak to his wife because *i work to support my family, but family first*.

When I worked in IT the culture was absolutely the opposite, to the point it caused a lot of anxiety because of how fundamentally wrong being at work suddenly felt - it took me nearly a year to acclimatise to the whole concept of 'what, I can do whatever I want as long as my work gets done', and that includes using the phone. I'm sure you if you spent all day on the phone in the office jabbering to a friend someone would say something, but literally nobody cares if you check your phone now and then or even take a call, or surf the web for a bit. In fact, it wasn't unusual to go down the pub for lunch which would extend for another hour and even managers would sometimes come. I'm not on good terms with my employer at the minute for other reasons but that was a total different concept and yeah, I can't vouch for others, but i can vouch for me - I always got my work done. I just didn't have someone breathing down my neck and I felt like a professional not a high school kid.

So yeah, not going to tell you what to do, but do you think it's going to have a measurable benefit given what you've said about work getting done?

So this here what you've said is exactly where I was coming from on the original post - how to sort it and is it worth it. I note your comments about feeling like a professional and being allowed to use phone whilst being also able to get the work done. There is some merit to what you've said and maybe I will take this one on the chin for now and just monitor their work activity for a while

 

[Paulzx]

Mobile phone use is the modern equivalent of the cigarette break except every one's 'on it'!

No point using Lockers, they'll just bring another phone in or borrow someone else's.

Hold a meeting at the end of the day, at going home time. Keep them waiting for 20 minutes, arrive late and apologise telling them you were on level 7 of Candy Crush? Might be too subtle for some but.....

Haha I like your style...

 

[ethical PR]

Of course they didn't get it from me, did you read what I said about their contract?
What I'm saying is the younger generations have these expectancies regardless, the same as they have an expectancy to be paid lots of money for doing very little work

Sounds like your employing the wrong sort of people then

 

[Paulzx]

Sounds like your employing the wrong sort of people then

I'm afraid that has been my experience with most employees over recent years. We've had a couple that have been good workers with the right attitude, but it's been far outweighed by the opposite, and that's a sign of the times I think you'll find.

When you say 'employing the wrong sort of people' you do of course realise that it takes a while in employment to really see what people are actually like. They all know how to say the right things in a job interview. They don't all follow through on that though. Your experience may be different.

 

[ethical PR]

I'm afraid that has been my experience with most employees over recent years. We've had a couple that have been good workers with the right attitude, but it's been far outweighed by the opposite, and that's a sign of the times I think you'll find.

When you say 'employing the wrong sort of people' you do of course realise that it takes a while in employment to really see what people are actually like. They all know how to say the right things in a job interview. They don't all follow through on that though. Your experience may be different.

Yes it has been it's about you having proper systems in place . When I had an agency my staff didn't spend all day on their personal phones .

 

[Paulzx]

Yes it has been it's about you having proper systems in place . When I had an agency my staff didn't spend all day on their personal phones .

Oh it's obviously my fault then. Thanks for your valuable input.

 

[Martin Patfield]

I remember working for Waitrose not that long ago.

Rules were no phones on your person and to be kept in your locker which was provided for bags and coats and the likes.
Managers would discipline those found evading that rule with warnings, verbal, written, finals and so on. It was actually taken seriously.

Waitrose has changed a lot since I left - uniform doesn't seem to be so important. Staff have their mobiles on them. Using them on the shop floor openly.

 

[DontAsk]

Waitrose has changed a lot since I left - uniform doesn't seem to be so important. Staff have their mobiles on them. Using them on the shop floor openly.

Same in Tesco. They don't "do the knowledge" any more and need their company App to answer questions like "do you have X?" or "which aisle for Y?".

 

[Richard Dastardly]

I'm afraid that has been my experience with most employees over recent years. We've had a couple that have been good workers with the right attitude, but it's been far outweighed by the opposite, and that's a sign of the times I think you'll find.

When you say 'employing the wrong sort of people' you do of course realise that it takes a while in employment to really see what people are actually like. They all know how to say the right things in a job interview. They don't all follow through on that though. Your experience may be different.

Indeed that was my experience. I did get better at hiring as time went on, but in reality you just couldn't tell for about the first 3 months. But I was really good at firing people quickly when it was clear they weren't up to it, which stood me in good stead

 

[ethical PR]

Oh it's obviously my fault then. Thanks for your valuable input.

Happy to help ???

 

[Paulzx]

I remember working for Waitrose not that long ago.

Rules were no phones on your person and to be kept in your locker which was provided for bags and coats and the likes.
Managers would discipline those found evading that rule with warnings, verbal, written, finals and so on. It was actually taken seriously.

Waitrose has changed a lot since I left - uniform doesn't seem to be so important. Staff have their mobiles on them. Using them on the shop floor openly.

Wow I'm surprised by that. Then again should I really be surprised at all?

 

[chickenlady]

You say your employees use their personal phones for work purposes... do you give them an allowance for this? Or do you just expect them to do it because they have a phone anyway? Do you contact them by WhatsApp or whatever out of work hours? If you are using their personal equipment to do your work, maybe they feel they are owed some of your time. Or supply them with a work phone and have and enforce a complete ban in the office of personal phones (which you also adhere to), ensuring that family/schools have an always available number for emergencies - you can make it your phone so you can monitor its use.

 

[Michael Loveridge]

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