efg loan default

[havehadenough]

I cannot believe that they can claim the money and then demand full payment saying that they pay that back to the BIS as they are repaid. If that is the case why the need for a CCj rather than an amicable repayment schedule as was offered. If that was the case I could actually see the benefit for all as the bank don't lose out and the customer remains liable but at an affordable level. However this isn't what it says. It doesn't say that the bank can reclaim and then still pursue you and then repay it as they see fit to the BIS. It says they can claim the 75% once all other avenues are exhausted.. They have 2 repayment options active concurrently when one should only be implemented in absence of the other. Well that's how I understood it.

However they now want the full amount ' forthwith' and I think this may be because we asked for a variance as they had 75% repaid. The Tines I think triggered the question of interest because we discovered that they were in fact adding interest to the CCJ amount so it was going up but since the TImes queries they have said they agree not to charge interest. Very kind considering they have 75% sat in an account somewhere gaining interest......

 

[havehadenough]

We really need to see a copy of the insurance premium that we paid 2% for but strangely enough that was never provided to us. I wonder if it ever existed.

 

[havehadenough]

Do you ever get the feeling you should have gone to Wonga!!

 

[Bricklayer]

Did you ever get the feeling you've been conned...I've felt that feeling for yrs!!

 

[Bricklayer]

Anyone read the news today 15th January 2015?

RBS have admitted mis selling EFG loans

Its in the Times but just Google it RBs have been forced to announce it on their web site

Its a game changer all

 

[The Resolver]

BBC link is http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30833557

Quite a number of my clients in bank dispute cases say the same, that they did not have it explained that they remained liable 100%. This adds compelling evidence by way of a generic admission that the practice did go on and should mean businesses can revisit settlements made/do deals now. It signifies a welcome change in approach and a withdrawal from the usual combat. I had noticed a change with the Banks in general after managing to negotiate a couple of big settlements for clients last month (not EFG related) .

This should also apply to Lloyds TSB. I also have clients who assert the same mis-selling from Lloyds. I imagine the reasons this admission is just from RSB is because they were the ones researched by Lawrence Tomlinson for BIS. If he was to call for Lloyds TSB evidence he would be inundated with the same.

 

[Bricklayer]

I've led a crusade against RBS over this

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/business/industries/banking/article4323559.ece

so much so RBS were forced to announce the review on their website

http://www.rbs.com/news/2015/januar...cted-by-enterprise-finance-guarantee-efg.html

My MP David Hanson backed me up & we fought tooth and nail for this I was interviewed by Clifford Chance as 1 of the 138 SME's who were included in the report Clifford Chance were given this information but still whitewashed RBS I'm on to CC next

We've had evidence of Lloyds HSBC & Barclays abusing the scheme so now's the time to write to Cable either direct or through an MP and challenge him. This scheme and the SFLG were abused and in many cases mine included fraudulently.

 

[havehadenough]

Just to say well done to you, its taken some sustained effort which cannot have been easy.

 

[Bricklayer]

Thanks its been hard work but it's not stopping with RBS we need to open up the wider campaign for all the banks to come clean over the mis selling of this scheme

How are you doing with your case at the moment did you manage to get it sorted

 

[havehadenough]

Still ongoing but support keeps growing and your result adds to the fact that not everyone misheard the same thing! They were told the same thing.

 

[Bricklayer]

No none of us definitely didn't mis hear what the bank told us it was a con right from the start.

Have you contacted your MP as it might be worth writing to them to ask that they write to the BIS & Vince Cable detailing your complaint and asking that they widen the investigation to include other banks...if enough do it they will have to listen

RBS have never admitted any mis selling before so it shows it can be done we've just got to keep plugging away at them

 

[Frantic50]

I am new to this forum but have read with interest everyone's comments and different situations. I too had an EFG Loan and are facing similar problems. Let me try and give a very brief outline of my situation. I took out a Business Loan with Lloyds in order to finance the purchase of a retail business and commercial premises with me as a Sole Trader. There was not enough equity for Lloyds to lend the full amount of £144K. They would only lend me £133K and suggested an EFG Loan of £11K to make up the difference. I had to provide security as 1st charge (the business premises) and 2nd charge (my family home - which is now seriously in jeopardy). I had to close the business due to economic reasons and Lloyds sent out the demand letters. It has always struck me as underhand that the bank were asking me to repay 100% of the EFG when they were going to reclaim it back from the government but hadn't really looked into it until now. I have been to the FOS with other complaints which relate to my experiences with Lloyds but not with this. I've been through the paperwork and found an Information Declaration form which I have signed to say I understand I am liable for 100% so I don't suppose I have a leg to stand on. But, that said, I was always under the impression that I would only be liable for 25%. How and why should they get it back twice !!! As a family we are in a pretty awful position at the moment, like so many other. As mentioned above it is just a matter of time now, I am sure, until Lloyds take our home so any suggestions or advice would be very much appreciated.

 

[Bricklayer]

Hello Frantic50

really sorry to hear your experiences with Lloyds and the EFG

There is things that can be done which are

1. EFG declaration in whose name was the EFG in i.e name of a Company or personal?
2. Send FOI to BIS asking if Lloyds have made a claim on the EFG? how long ago was it?
3. Write to your MP detailing your case and ask them to call for a full review of the scheme
4. Contact the press
5. Homes cannot be used a security against an EFG Lloyds are wrong to do so

The FOS are crap and useless it calls for direct attack as we did in getting RBS to admit to mis selling EFG's we now need to do the same for all the other banks

If you need the FOI BIS email address its [email protected]

Ask them for all the info they have in relation to your EFG loan application and also whether Lloyds have made a claim

Let me know if you need anything

 

[Frantic50]

Thanks for this Bricklayer. I'm going to get on it straight away. In answer to the points you raised.
The EFG declaration was in my name. I did notice that the EFG could not be secured against residential homes. Now this is just another thing I'm getting confused on. As mentioned in my first post they took security from the commercial premises and my residential property. They repossessed the commercial property and sent in an LPA receiver who sold it for 50% less than Lloyds themselves had valued it at two months earlier, but that's another story !! I assume that they would say that the security for the EFG element was held against the commercial property and not our home although I don't think the distinction was ever made formally. Needless to say with them selling the commercial property for such a low amount it has left us with a massive shortfall that we can't cover and with them adding over £6K a year in interest things are never going to improve.

Couldn't agree more with you about FOS. Had a complaint against Lloyds with them for nearly 18 months but it wasn't upheld.

Cheers Bricklayer.

 

[Bricklayer]

Glad to help,

did Lloyds have a pg for the commercial property? Could you challenge them for selling it at such a loss or do you know who they sold it to?

Once you get the info under the FOI it may shed some light on security % etc but if they've made a claim under the guarantee it might be a lever to use against them

One thing I keep doing is checking through emails and letters its funny what you can miss sometimes when you re read it again?

When you obtained the EFG how did they say it worked regarding the government guarantee and how did they describe the payment each qtr to the BIS as? What month & yr did you drawdown the EFG?

 

[Frantic50]

Hello there
As a sole trader I assume I am pg for the commercial property and all debt. We did challenge them at length about the low price achieved for the shop. We spoke to our MP about it and went to the FOS. Lloyds said it wasn't their responsibility and our complaint should be with the LPA Receiver. The FOS agreed with this. We contacted the LPAR who tried to convince us that it was a good price. Although, as mentioned before, Lloyds themselves had had it valued at 50% more than they sold it for only two months before - so work that one out !! We just got know where with the complaint.

I was told I would only be liable for a percentage and that the BIS payments I would be making were an insurance to cover the loan in the event that the business was not a success. However, I have no proof of what I was told as I was on my own. The loan was drawndown in May 2011.

 

[Bricklayer]

once you get the info from the FOI it will state on it what the bank said would be the % covered under liability which may or may not help

If Lloyds said tha t the premium was an insurance to cover you for the 25% and it was in May 2011 you can use the argument that on the 7/9/11 why did the BIS state that it wasn't an insurance premium to cover the borrower in the event of default?

http://webarchive.nationalarchives....ccess-to-finance/enterprise-finance-guarantee

Check it out on the above link under government guarantee

The FOI will also state whether Lloyds have claimed on the guarantee

If you lodge a complaint with Lloyds through your MP over the mis selling of the EFG tied with the fire sale of the commercial property it may stop them claiming from your house however I'd speak to someone about that? Andy Keats from Serious Banking Complaints Bureau should be able to advise.

The one thing you are not alone in is the mistaken belief as has how the banks sold it that we were paying an insurance premium to cover our 25% liability in the event of default.

 

[Frantic50]

Hi Bricklayer.
Thanks again. I have been in touch with MP and he's looking into it. Also sent a FOI request so we'll see what happens. I'll keep you posted.

 

[Bricklayer]

Well done,

let me know how you are getting on or if you need anything

 

[Bricklayer]

Update

Seems the BIS no longer send out FOI requests they've passed responsibility to the British Business Bank who took over from the CfEL in running the scheme

Send FOI requests now to
[email protected]

 

[Frantic50]

Does anyone know how long the British Busines Bank have to respond to a FOI request. I believe when the FOI was with the BIS it was 20 working days. Is it still the same and what do I do if I don't hear within the timeframe.
Cheers

 

[Bricklayer]

I'm not sure on the time frame but keep emailing them asking them for an update they'll soon get sick of it and respond with the info you need...that's my take on it!

There's a survey asking for people to complete an EFG questionnaire on Twitter

EFG Loan surveys required from anyone particularly Lloyds customers http://www.sbcb.org.uk TAKE A SURVEY

I'm on twitter follow me at @efgbricklayer

 

[CHuman]

I just got a response after 20 days saying they're extending it for another 20 days because:
"we are in the process of applying the public interest test for the release of information that would, or would be likely to, prejudice the commercial interests of any person under s43(2) of the Freedom of Information Act. To consider the public interest test fully we need to extend the 20 working day response period."

Something stinks.

Does anyone know how long the British Busines Bank have to respond to a FOI request. I believe when the FOI was with the BIS it was 20 working days. Is it still the same and what do I do if I don't hear within the timeframe.
Cheers

 

[Bricklayer]

Chris somethings not right this is the second request I've heard of recently that's being with held for a further 20 days to consider public interest test

They gave this info freely before with no consideration to the test RBS admittance might have something to do with it maybe they are running scared now?


just got a response after 20 days saying they're extending it for another 20 days because:
"we are in the process of applying the public interest test for the release of information that would, or would be likely to, prejudice the commercial interests of any person under s43(2) of the Freedom of Information Act. To consider the public interest test fully we need to extend the 20 working day response period."
Something stinks.

 

[CHuman]

It may be since the FOI requests moved to the British Business Bank instead of BIS. Has anyone had an FOI from the BBB?

Chris somethings not right this is the second request I've heard of recently that's being with held for a further 20 days to consider public interest test

They gave this info freely before with no consideration to the test RBS admittance might have something to do with it maybe they are running scared now?

 

[Frantic50]

I'm still waiting for my information. My 20 days was up on 13th March ! However, as I was a sole trader they told me they would need to deal with my request as a Subject Access Request and that I would have it within 40 days. Then asked me for copies of driving licence and proof of address. When I sent these I then had a response to say the person I had been dealing with had left. I then re-sent to the new person and haven't heard a dicky bird even though I have been asking for updates consistently.

Also, no joy from my MP either. He responded to say he was going to look into it for us but doesn't seem interested to be honest. Not sure where we go from here.

 

[CHuman]

They want you to get bored and go away. Don't. Keep hassling them. I've been messed around by them and I'm on their case. I'm ringing them and emailing them. If you quit then you'll lose.

I'm still waiting for my information. My 20 days was up on 13th March ! However, as I was a sole trader they told me they would need to deal with my request as a Subject Access Request and that I would have it within 40 days. Then asked me for copies of driving licence and proof of address. When I sent these I then had a response to say the person I had been dealing with had left. I then re-sent to the new person and haven't heard a dicky bird even though I have been asking for updates consistently.

Also, no joy from my MP either. He responded to say he was going to look into it for us but doesn't seem interested to be honest. Not sure where we go from here.

 

[Frantic50]

I know, I have no intention of letting this go. I'm sick of being ignored and fobbed off by banks and organisations such as this. I'll keep pushing. Thanks for your reply. I'll let you know what happens.

 

[CHuman]

Well. I got my response & it was rejected. I've quoted the most amazing bit below. So the bank have lied and it wouldn't be in their interests to expose this lie? Absolutely incredible. I am really really angry now.

We recognise that there is a general public interest in the disclosure of information, as greater transparency makes Government more accountable. Against this there is a public interest in ensuring that the commercial interests referred to above are not damaged or undermined by disclosure of information which is not common knowledge and which could adversely impact these interests. A disclosure of information under the Freedom of Information Act releases that information into the public domain and so is in effect, release to the public at large.

We have concluded that disclosure of the information you have requested could damage and adversely affect the commercial interests referred to above. We consider that the public interest in favour of disclosing such information is outweighed by the necessity to protect the interests referred to above.

 

[CHuman]

Update: The British Business Bank finally released the FOI.

 

[Frantic50]

Finally received something from the British Business Bank. Apparently they couldn't deal with my FOI request as I was a sole trader and not a limited company. They have dealt with it as a Subject Access Request and sent me a copy of the Eligibility and Loan Entry document. To be honest I don't really know what I'm looking at. The document states : 'What was the date that the Demand against the Government Guarantee was settled? Answer : 21/01/2015. This reads to me that Lloyds have claimed back the 75% of what I owe from the Government Guarantee.

Does anyone else agree? They are continuing to try and also recover it from me !! Does that mean they get it twice ???

Not sure what to do next.

 

[Bricklayer]

If Lloyds have made a claim on your EFG to the BBB then by default they have had to demonstrate that they have tried all avenues to claim the funds from you Once they have claimed off the government they cannot come back to you for the full 100%

RBS have now reviewed 2000 cases of mis selling and are now reducing all company/director liabilities to 25%

I'm now part of a group litigation against RBS for the mis selling of EFG's they are taking on others from Lloyds etc I can give you their details

 

[life goes on]

Hi All

I'm new to the forum. In brief, in 2009 I took out an EFG loan to purchase a Franchise.....things just didn't workout, 10 months later NatWest called the loan in of £43k. Didn't have it. Went into a debt management plan, lost the house (now renting the smallest house on the planet, have CCJs etc) So for the past couple of years Ive tried to get on with life despite severe depression I've tried to put all of this behind me. However, this morning a letter has turned up from NatWest, they have been trying to track me down to do with EFG review (they sent the correspondence to my old address which they repossessed and their credit management department know where I am because of the token payment I am paying every month) So of course this has meant I have started Googling about this mis-selling review, which I didn't know about but there again I've been that ill with everything and I have tried move on. My question to you all is, has anyone been successful with their review and had the amount owing reduced? In the past I have written letters of complaint to NatWest arguing that I only owe 25% e.g £10,000 ish but go nowhere. As I am sure you will appreciate today has been difficult for me as its brought a lot of emotions to the surface. Your comments would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

 

[CHuman]

There's a couple of things here. Firstly, the EFG scheme prohibits banks taking a charge over your property. I've heard that to get around this, they like to force you into an IVA which when (inevitably) it becomes hard to pay they then take your house.

See: < I can't post links it seems, but google "efg principal private residence" and look for the 'withdrawn' gov link near the top. >

"When taking security, lenders are required to apply their normal commercial policies in determining the extent and value of security available. The exception from normal commercial practice is that lenders are expressly prohibited from taking a charge over a principal private residence for an EFG facility."

and

"EFG should not be seen by borrowers or their advisers as a mechanism for putting personal assets beyond consideration (principal private residence excluded for the purposes of EFG)."

Some people have been successful in getting the PGs dropped, but I'm sad to say that it sounds like you're a little too far down the path to be able to do much now. The best advice I can give is to get the help of a solicitor if you can afford it. Try contacting EFGBricklayer for reliable ones (he's on twitter).

Did Natwest themselves repossess your house? Was the only debt you had with them an EFG loan? There is documentation that states that banks are not allowed to make any claim against a principal private residence when pursuing a personal guarantee in relation to an EFG loan. If you had other loans then they can make claims against your house for them.

Chris.

Hi All

I'm new to the forum. In brief, in 2009 I took out an EFG loan to purchase a Franchise.....things just didn't workout, 10 months later NatWest called the loan in of £43k. Didn't have it. Went into a debt management plan, lost the house (now renting the smallest house on the planet, have CCJs etc) So for the past couple of years Ive tried to get on with life despite severe depression I've tried to put all of this behind me. However, this morning a letter has turned up from NatWest, they have been trying to track me down to do with EFG review (they sent the correspondence to my old address which they repossessed and their credit management department know where I am because of the token payment I am paying every month) So of course this has meant I have started Googling about this mis-selling review, which I didn't know about but there again I've been that ill with everything and I have tried move on. My question to you all is, has anyone been successful with their review and had the amount owing reduced? In the past I have written letters of complaint to NatWest arguing that I only owe 25% e.g £10,000 ish but go nowhere. As I am sure you will appreciate today has been difficult for me as its brought a lot of emotions to the surface. Your comments would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

 

[Kostas2017]

Hello,

I read all threads about EFG. They are all over one year old - does that mean no one is here to discuss about this anymore or..?

 

[Rubberegg]

I took out an EFG in 2009 and company went into liqudation in 2011, the bank asked for the money and could not provide me with a PG and then had many threats to repay or else until 2012 when my solicitor told them to provide a PG they state or back off.
It seems RBS re opened the case this year and I again asked for a PG and some how they provided with what looks like my signature. I never knowingly signed a PG and im pretty godsmacked. I did put a complaint in re mis selling but they just ignore and re-send the same letters to repay now they put a court claim so Im now trying to defend myself in court. Anyone that I ask wants a min of £5k just to look at the mis-selling and another solicitor wanted £20k to look at it.
Seeing as its a £22k bounty on my head ill take my chances and represent myself.

How did everyone else get on? Has anyone actually gone to court and won?

 

[CHuman]

Hi Rubberegg,
Ask them to provide details of who the solicitor was that witnessed you signing the PG. This is standard bank practice for PGs. If you didn't sign anything in front of a solicitor then they're going to have a hard (not impossible) time proving it. Deny everything and state that they have forged your signature. They should be able to provide the original document to the court. RBS have been forging documents recently: Google: "rbs forged documents"

 

[Roadblock]

Just looking for an update as to anyone having made any impact or get anywhere on these issues? Does anyone know of a class action against LLoyds?

 

[MrDizzy]

I know, I have no intention of letting this go. I'm sick of being ignored and fobbed off by banks and organisations such as this. I'll keep pushing. Thanks for your reply. I'll let you know what happens.

Hi … did you resolve this? I’m in a similar position and interested to hear from anyone that got through this.

 

[MrDizzy]

Update: The British Business Bank finally released the FOI.

Hi … did you resolve this? I’m in a similar position and interested to hear from anyone that got through this.