E1 Business Premises - Water Supply..

[smithster1]

I rent a premises in an old mill, it is classed a retail premises and on the contract it is E1 use... As we know E1 use includes 'Shops' and 'Cafes'..
This premises is inside an old mill in a town centre, and has ok footfall but needs more. I am currently using it as retail only, but soon want to add tea to my offering, selling in packaging as well as allowing customers to sit in and buy the tea, so more of a tea shop / coffee shop etc.
Currently I do not have a water supply in the shop. The only 'water supply' on my floor was the toilet which is in another area of the first floor, I should say 'was' because now they have just completley locked the door to the area where that toilet is, as it's a fire door, but to be honest their management is lack lustre and they are treating the whole mill as their own and disregarding all the tenants.
So right now the only water supply for me is on the top floor. What are my rights here? Do they need to be supplying my shop unit with a fresh water supply? I will need water for a small pot wash machine, as well as a sink and actual drinking water.
I am also wondering if they are required by law to provide a water supply if I have employees?
Any info would be appreciated.
Thank.s
Thirsty Shopkeeper.

 

[Mark T Jones]

1. Paras and bullets are helpful

2 what does your lease say?

 

[smithster1]

1. Paras and bullets are helpful

2 what does your lease say?

Just done a quick CTRL F on the doc for 'water' and this come up....

the Tenant shall pay all charges for all water, gas, electricity, telecommunications and other services (including
rent) supplied to or used at the Property during his occupation of the property and compensate the Landlord in full on
demand for any liability for them.

For the convenient use of the Property known as [REMOVED]
at all times for the use allowed: rights of way over such parts of the Building as are necessary for all purposes connected with the use and enjoyment of and access to the Property, as the Landlord from time to time reasonably designates in common with the Landlord and other people similarly entitled.
On condition that the Tenant keeps the same clean disinfected and odour free. Rights to receive water, gas and electricity, to receive and send communications and to discharge waste by means of sewers, drains, pipes, wires and cables in other parts of the Building.

Nothing else in there about water..

I should add, there is a kitchen and toilet on the top floor above me, but nothing on my floor.. So on my floor there is no use of toilet or water supply, be it drinking or washing hands..
I plan to add in a sink or 2 sinks to comply with health and safety when serving drinks and a pot wash machine.

 

[pentel]

Do you intend to have a toilet for your tea drinking customers to use?

 

[smithster1]

Do you intend to have a toilet for your tea drinking customers to use?

That's a good question.. I doubt they would install a new toilet on my side of the newly locked door... but there is one on the floor above me... so that may have to do... But I do intend to have a water supply...?

 

[WaveJumper]

Sorry to be blunt here but this should have all been thought through before even signing a lease, did you engage a solicitor to check the lease.

Further did you not check all the utilities before signing the lease ie what you have, what you are responsible for, where are the meters etc. Also slightly alarmed by the phrase "they have locked the fire door" whats that about.

10 or more seats I believe for a customer toilet, but check with your local council, but you should have staff facilities ?

 

[smithster1]

Sorry to be blunt here but this should have all been thought through before even signing a lease, did you engage a solicitor to check the lease.

Further did you not check all the utilities before signing the lease ie what you have, what you are responsible for, where are the meters etc. Also slightly alarmed by the phrase "they have locked the fire door" whats that about.

10 or more seats I believe for a customer toilet, but check with your local council, but you should have staff facilities ?

Hi, so if I have signed a lease (which I have) any of my requests now are automatically void?
When I siged the lease, I was not going to be needing a a water supply for pot wash and sink etc, and at the time there was access to the toilet and the wash basins. But even then, that was not drinking water, at least not what we would call a drinking water tap. Now, access to that toilet with wash sinks has been locked off, the fire door is one of those you press down a long handle and it opens, from their side, on my side it is a twist handle with lock, and they have locked it... so on my floor there is no access to a toilert or wash basin or any way to be hygenic (use water).
I suppose you could say there are "staff facilities" on the floor above me, up a flight of steps.. and down a corridor, but that's not on my floor.

 

[WaveJumper]

Hi, so if I have signed a lease (which I have) any of my requests now are automatically void?

Well they are not void if they were not included within your original lease the lease / landlord was never going to supply.

When I signed the lease, I was not going to be needing a a water supply for pot wash and sink etc,

So now you need something the lease / landlord had not agreed to supply ie a water supply direct to your "unit" as you want to change the use, albeit "slightly" are you sure the lease actually allows for the "cafe" use. Don't be misled by the E1 usage what does the lease say you can do.

and at the time there was access to the toilet and the wash basins. But even then, that was not drinking water, at least not what we would call a drinking water tap. Now, access to that toilet with wash sinks has been locked off,

Again what did the lease say about toilet facilities, what did it state about location and access

the fire door is one of those you press down a long handle and it opens, from their side, on my side it is a twist handle with lock, and they have locked it... so on my floor there is no access to a toilert or wash basin or any way to be hygenic (use water).
I suppose you could say there are "staff facilities" on the floor above me, up a flight of steps.. and down a corridor, but that's not on my floor.

So did the lease include access for you (through a shared access corridor) to use of the staff facilities on the floor above.

To me it sounds like you need to re-read your lease and determine exactly what you are paying for, what access rights to have to any staff facilities on site and if you do have rights to these how much are you paying towards them.

Without knowing what is in the lease and what your landlord is obligated to provide you with on the face of it if you require a designated supply of water, drinking or otherwise this could well at a cost to you if the landlord of course agrees.

Then thinking slightly ahead who is going to be monitoring the meter reference additional charges ?

 

[smithster1]

Hi. I have just gone over the lease...
I CMD-F (find) for 'toilet' and this is what come up...

22.6 the Tenant’s shall clean, maintain and provide toiletries for the first floor toilets shared with the ground floor/first floor tenants.

16. TENANT TO ORGANISE AND/OR PAY FOR
Tenants on the ground floor and first floor will ensure that:
16.1 the common spaces (reception, WCs and landing are kept clean and hygienic (either by devising a rota or by
employing a cleaner);
16.2 ensure sanitary bins are provided and emptied according to regulations;
16.3 toilet rolls and paper towels are provided.

I am on the first floor, and the toilet and wash sink has now been closed off and locked off... Leaving me with no water or toilet access on my floor (first floor). It explicitly states I have facilities on the first floor (where they have now locked the fire door on my side so I can't get in the area where the toilet and wash basin is) - But that is not drinking water anyway, it's a toilet wash sink, I never had fresh supply of drinking water which I belive is right for any paying tenant of a retal premises.

---

I searched for 'water'

On condition that the Tenant keeps the same clean disinfected and odour free. Rights to receive water, gas and electricity, to receive and send communications and to discharge waste by means of sewers, drains, pipes, wires and cables in other parts of the Building.

'Service Channels' means all facilities for the supply of drainage, water, gas, electricity, telecommunications and other
services including cisterns, sewers, pipes, drains, wires, cables, ducts and aerials.

12.2 the Tenant shall pay all charges for all water, gas, electricity, telecommunications and other services (including
rent) supplied to or used at the Property during his occupation of the property and compensate the Landlord in full on demand for any liability for them.

---

I think I just need to email them and inform them of my plans?!

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

Does the lease allow you to run F&B?

 

[smithster1]

Does the lease allow you to run F&B?

There is nothing implicit or explixit that refers to 'F&B' 'Food' or 'Drink' upon a search command in the lease document.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

There is nothing implicit or explixit that refers to 'F&B' 'Food' or 'Drink' upon a search command in the lease document.

But does the lease say what your initial business is?

 

[smithster1]

But does the lease say what your initial business is?

I guess here:

29.1 The landlord will allow the tenant to use the property for Class E (Commercial, Business & Service uses). Any
change of use required by the local authority will be the responsibility of the landlord.

So as class E, that means for any use that falls under class E.

Class E, or Commercial, Business and Service Use, is a broad category in English planning law that encompasses a wide range of activities, including shops, restaurants, offices, gyms, and nurseries, which were previously in different use classes. Introduced in 2020, Class E allows businesses to change their specific use within this category without needing planning permission, offering greater flexibility for property owners and businesses.

 

[smithster1]

I have emaield them anyway... They replied and skirted over every point I made. Being in slight rent arrears does not help I suppose. But the law is the law? From what I have read, all class E premises need water, and I have no access to water in my shop or on my floor now.
It's like a fight with a smoke sword. I have legs to stand on, but also they probbaly think they can just pull the rent arrears card on me and have no duty to uphold the law which is to supply my shop with water?

 

[fisicx]

The right to receive water doesn’t mean they have to supply. It just means they can’t stop you installing your own supply.

 

[smithster1]

The right to receive water doesn’t mean they have to supply. It just means they can’t stop you installing your own supply.

Do you know if legally I can demand I install my own water supply and that i am allowed to feed off of their water supply they have in the building? I can't imagine it means I have to install pipes that tap into the mains supply out on the roads?

 

[Mark T Jones]

Do you know if legally I can demand I install my own water supply and that i am allowed to feed off of their water supply they have in the building? I can't imagine it means I have to install pipes that tap into the mains supply out on the roads?

You are asking the wrong people the wrong questions at the wrong time.

OK, the right time has gone and the second best time is now

You need to be talking to:

Your landlord

A commercial lawyer who specialises in commercial property and is in possession of full facts

Potentially a plumber who can assess what can be done

 

[fisicx]

If you need your own water meter you may well be paying to connect to the mains in the road. We had exactly situation the same with the property we own. Each leaseholder would have to pay to dig up the road and connect to their flat.

The landlord might be amenable to you tapping into his feed but may well then charge you for the privilege. It all depends on how they are feeling on the day. Paying your overdue rent will help.

 

[WaveJumper]

Class E maybe fine but there's a BUT provided there are no planning conditions or Article 4 Directions in place.

As I think I have previously mentioned and now echoed by others here you need to seek some proper legal advice on the lease otherwise you are just going round and round in circles. and I wouldn't expect the landlord is not going to be that helpful if you are in rent arrears, put yourself in their shoes.