Dragons Den back

[jane p]

The Den is back on Sunday so looking forward to it?I just love seeing what people come up with?

 

[cheap]

I do to some people spend a lot of money on things that will never earn them any,Some lose there houses and everything just to keep there dream alive.

 

[businessfunding]

Oh great. Another flood of funding inquiries from nutters who think they just have to talk for 3 minutes

 

[Moneyman]

I think they are all now just trying to be witty and not that interested in the companies. I hope they do something to the format like allowing people to take one sheet of paper with notes rather than it all being a game to see if they can cope under pressure.

 

[smallpond]

Interesting how the Reggae Reggae branding is now everywhere. You can see it in Wetherspoons, on cans of pop, pasties.

Dunno if there's ever been a bigger explosion, off the back of Dragons' Den?

 

[ITsoldUK]

Bloke presents good idea...

Question 1 from panel...is it patented/protected/trademarked?

Answer: Not yet

Dragon: I'm out....then onto mobile to nick the idea.

NEXT.............

 

[ITsoldUK]

Interesting how the Reggae Reggae branding is now everywhere. You can see it in Wetherspoons, on cans of pop, pasties.

Dunno if there's ever been a bigger explosion, off the back of Dragons' Den?

Not in my cupboard

Pernickety I know but hey....

 

[businessfunding]

Bloke presents good idea...

Question 1 from panel...is it patented/protected/trademarked?

Answer: Not yet

Dragon: I'm out....then onto mobile to nick the idea.

NEXT.............

Can you name an instance where that has happened?

Genuine investors are interested in management teams and structures at least as much as products and ideas - theft of ideas is so small a problem as to be non-existent.

Whilst Dragon's Den trivialises what is a fairly complex environment, the point about Reggae Reggae is very relevant - good investment partnerships are about far more than money, they are about experience, contacts and knowledge.

 

[ITsoldUK]

Can you name an instance where that has happened?

Genuine investors are interested in management teams and structures at least as much as products and ideas - theft of ideas is so small a problem as to be non-existent.

Whilst Dragon's Den trivialises what is a fairly complex environment, the point about Reggae Reggae is very relevant - good investment partnerships are about far more than money, they are about experience, contacts and knowledge.

Chill Bill

It is my opinion, of which I am entitled to express am I not?

On the other foot, can you prove it NEVER HAS HAPPENED??

PLUS of course, you will have a vested interest in this niche would you not.....

I'm out....

 

[businessfunding]

Chill Bill

It is my opinion, of which I am entitled to express am I not?

On the other foot, can you prove it NEVER HAS HAPPENED??

PLUS of course, you will have a vested interest in this niche would you not.....

I'm out....

You are definitely entitled to express it. And we are entitled to challenge it.

No, I have no vested interest. My long term business is loan finance - all equity enquiries (and we get a lot of unsolicited ones) are passed back or referred on.

 

[GradwellDotCom]

Our MD Peter Gradwell did some blogs about Dragon's Den for the Business Zone Website when it was on last year, with interesting comments and advice. He's got great knowledge on this as an entrepreneur himself.

There's a new show in the same kind of branch starting soon called 'Be Your Own Boss', hosted by the co-founder of Innocent Smoothie. We're hoping Peter can do some blogs for this too.

Plus the way Innocent Smoothie has grown and kept its identity is impressive. Hopefully such a respected company will be part of a business show just as good as Dragon's Den/The Apprentice.

 

[garyk]

I think they are all now just trying to be witty and not that interested in the companies. I hope they do something to the format like allowing people to take one sheet of paper with notes rather than it all being a game to see if they can cope under pressure.

Exactly, pitching for real you would have your 3 years projections with sales and cash flow forecasts with you, not be expected to repeat them parrot fashion.

I know I've done it (in the days when DD wasn't on telly).

 

[Simon-M]

They know they are going to be expected to know their numbers inside out so why do so many fall at this hurdle. Surely that's the easy bit. You know damn well they are going to ask so if you don't have the figures you really don't deserve the investment. It's the only thing they are GUARANTEED to ask for heavens sake.

 

[businessfunding]

They know they are going to be expected to know their numbers inside out so why do so many fall at this hurdle. Surely that's the easy bit. You know damn well they are going to ask so if you don't have the figures you really don't deserve the investment. It's the only thing they are GUARANTEED to ask for heavens sake.

Very true, but of course we miss 95% of what actually happens so the forgetting might often be just a momentary stumble in front of lights and cameras.

~I still don't get the no figures rule, even for effect. Presumably just to widen the superiority gap between Dragons and applicants?

 

[10032012]

kickstart... I think he was joking about stealing the idea.

When Dragons Den and The Apprentice was enough... the additions of Be Your Own Boss and The Intern... is not really helping encourage entrepreneurship. (Neither was Peter Jones' Tycoon which died an awful death. )

Dragons Den has always been entertainment and not proper business documentary... but this has never been so bad since the BBC chose to roast candidates more as of the recession. I somewhat feel that this upcoming Dragons Den will be amongst the worst.

If you don't understand the DD format it is as follows:-

* PR for the businessmen and women with added bonus of the chance to invest
* Entertainment - its more about good TV by being cruel than an insight
* Staged (it is TV) - Most of the successful businesses (whether they went with investment or not) were invited by the BBC and did not apply
* Comedy - It wouldn't be the British Broadcasting Corporation without comedy. Some candidates are chosen to fail with little prior scrutiny as it makes good TV. Some buckle under pressure and forget figures.. others didn't know them to begin with.
* Dragons know briefly who and what is coming on the Den (makes better TV for viewers to think its all a surprise - as in, not scripted. There is no script just prior mental notes)
* Snapshot - The pitches aren't really just a few minutes long... its edited for the best or worst parts to provide the best entertainment value
* Mental Aspect - The two main state-of-mind elements which make DD good TV is a) most candidates don't get a timeslot, and are told to keep turning up on different filming days making preparing difficult especially with nerves "will i be next?" etc.) and b) the stairs.. yes its partly a physical element of ensuring you have your breath but it would really be so much easier if you entered the room from the same level
* Suspense - The entrepreneurs need the cash injection otherwise they will (along with their family) die! (Actually its not that bad, applies to business only) - I think this worked for viewers until they over did it.
* X-Factorness - They are commonly now getting people in to do spoof auditions. Some of the bad (as in pathetically bad) clips aren't of genuine people applying for the show. They seem to do this to fill space should other filming not be of as good entertainment value. Unlike X Factor, its more of a last resort, than a specific requirement.

Levi Roots... ironically the most successful person on the Den?! Great character, good musician and decent sauce concept. People use tomato ketchup by the bottle load to make dryish or boring food more interesting... it does little to the taste. Brown sauce etc. can burn your tongue doesn't add to flavour at all. This actually improves the flavour (should you like it of course). Its a shame he was sourced by the BBC.

Anyway... I just hope Dragons Den will be Yet Another DD... with new entrepreneurs, and not "Britain, in a double-dip recession..." and make it even more tough than before. I cant help thinking the BBC sucked out some soul from the programme... hope it puts some back...

I wont be watching Sunday, but will watch it on iplayer when I get round to it.

 

[Fred_the_frog]

... is not really helping encourage entrepreneurship.

That's good.

 

[VSpy1]

10032012 - how do you know it is 'staged' and that they invite businesses to apply? I know someone who went on there and gained investment...they weren't approached and that although the tv clip was about 10 minutes, they actually spent about 5 hours being grilled by dragons (and others).... but this is tv and therefore has to be edited down for both time and entertainment.

 

[WHARTY]

10032012 - how do you know it is 'staged' and that they invite businesses to apply? I know someone who went on there and gained investment...they weren't approached and that although the tv clip was about 10 minutes, they actually spent about 5 hours being grilled by dragons (and others).... but this is tv and therefore has to be edited down for both time and entertainment.

I know a company that was approached twice!!

 

[arcon5]

Interesting how the Reggae Reggae branding is now everywhere. You can see it in Wetherspoons, on cans of pop, pasties.

Dunno if there's ever been a bigger explosion, off the back of Dragons' Den?

Didn't TrueCall explode on the back of dragons den? Can't remember if the deal was actually finalised or not, but the publicity is most certainly a major factor in its success.

 

[internetspaceships]

Quite a large percentage of the people on Dragon's Den have historically come through the Entrepeneurs Club.

The bit I sometimes have a hard time grasping is that bearing in mind the process they have had to go through to get to that point, why they are not better prepared for the kind of questions that are put to them.

 

[nine-am]

Do they still have a big pile of cash on the table in front of them? I don't see how it could be treated seriously.

 

Quite a large percentage of the people on Dragon's Den have historically come through the Entrepeneurs Club.

The bit I sometimes have a hard time grasping is that bearing in mind the process they have had to go through to get to that point, why they are not better prepared for the kind of questions that are put to them.

Because the public love freaks and wierdo's.

The whole show is based on making the applicants look like fools.IMHO

Nothing to do with reality.

 

[Fred_the_frog]

The bit I sometimes have a hard time grasping is that bearing in mind the process they have had to go through to get to that point, why they are not better prepared for the kind of questions that are put to them.

Yes! Simple questions like 'What is your predicted turnover for next year?' even if they don't know, surely they should just have an educated guess- take this years turnover and stick a bit on top

I think it's strange when you get someone like this:

Dragon: How much gross profit did you make?

Entrepreneur: £1 million

Dragon: How much net profit did you make?

Entrepreneur: £20k.

 

[Maxwell83]

Its basically the X Factor for business, its not 'fake' per se, but there is alot of editing, steering, coaching, pre-selection and a bit of 'lets put this really terrible one on as it will be funny to watch him fail miserably'. At the same time, many are genuine applicants and the odd few get launched to business stardom from it (Its not hard to see that Levi Roots is a real person, flaws and lawsuits and all).

My brother went on there a few years ago, he wanted investment for an organic sandwich shop but that wouldn't sell purely organic stuff! He was laughed off the set and laughed at by us when we saw it. Admittedly, he didn't explain his concept too well and it made for great TV. He did set up his shop (after tweaking the concept) and now grosses about £100k a year from it but that is beside the point. The point is it was all too real for him.

 

[Moneyman]

Have watched it and quite frankly it was boring.
The three guys with the earphones etc were good but the questions and bits they showed did not tell about the turnover or whether they got saleries or all the other questions they asked the others so it is impossible to see a comparrison between the valuations etc.
The luggage guy was off his rocker. with the valuation. It is a nice idea and a decent business could be built but how do you get £60k per year not taking a salary to a valuation of £2M. to get that valuation in that industry you would require a net profit of more than £600,000. I like the idea though.

 

[vvaannmmaann]

Never seen it.Don't plan on starting now.

 

[10032012]

I have just seen Dragons Den via iPlayer this morning.

Some points I would like to add:-

* At the start it seems like there were some impersonation of Evan Davis at the title screen... didn't really sound much like him. Perhaps he was off ill? or they seriously tampered around with the voice. They also seemed to change the music slightly, thought it was awful.

* They now go down steps, and not up them? (I like the idea of going up steps once you win your pitch but I prefer when they have to go up steps to begin)

* It went straight into a pitch pretty much - and it was a nightmare (explained below).

* Generally lack of music. Less commentary in the den.

* The 75% thing - can any "dragon" really not get it? I mean really? Perhaps he should walk after this series.

* I think they could have arranged the entrepreneurs better

* What is with the camera angles on Evan Davis again?! If you don't like him get rid of him lol

First pitch

Sorry guys but this sounded extremely scripted and set-up. Firstly, the entrepreneur who came on was to my best knowledge the only person to just stand there and not give the pitch! She was acting to be bimbo-like. To me (beyond the nonsense) she appears to be good at presentations... not exactly what the BBC tried to get across. She knew the majority of her figures. It also seemed to me that she pitched without the dragons half the time, with the dragons being added in - perhaps just me over analysing it. It was nail biting stuff - I thought to myself "oh dear" when she was asked "tell me about you" - she cried as if she was about to drop a bombshell.

All in all, it was quite a boring production. I hope the next one is much better.

 

[altwebdesign]

for me, it had quite a few laugh out loud moments, years ago you wouldn't dare laugh because rachel meaden and doug richard were far to stern!

it's certainly a lot more light hearted these days.

 

[simonr]

I don't like the show. It's car crash TV. I get about thirty seconds in to the first presentation and then start to bang my head on the wall.

Now, acting in the spirit of "if you don't like something, change it" I'm making an offer: if anyone here is going on Dragon's Den I'll give them some free presentation skills training so they don't cockup the presentation/pitch (well, okay, less likely to at least!)

It might be face to face or Skype or phone or something depending on where in the UK you are, but we'll sort something out.

(Mind you, this is probably too late as it's all in the can now)

 

[jane p]

it has its funny moments. Quite humorous. I am amazed they dont know their facts and figures some of them.

 

[VSpy1]

I get about thirty seconds in to the first presentation and then start to bang my head on the wall

...save yourself some pain....just turnover and watch something else!

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

I think that the first "contestant" was given more of a life line than a "dragon".

She didn't know what staff costs where, she was unable to answer a straight forward question without tears... I mean, Duncan asked "Tell us about you" - tears started flowing, bottom lip started to wobble, and all she said was "I built up from nothing" (or words to that affect)

Man-face (hard nosed as she is normally) quite clearly saw prospect with her, I don't know what she saw to be honest, as my hair is natural and flowing beautifully but to ask for 40% and then state:

you don't have a clue, we'll build you a business model...

to me was like saying,

I'm taking your company, stripping it right back to basics starting again and lo and behold you'll be employed by me to do as I'm bidding Mwuhahahahaha!

Comedy gold for me was the couple with the smart-mat... what a shock her voice was! - (no offence to any ladies here who also has a deep masculine voice) but good grief! - The acting was dire, the smart-mat wasn't that clever and when she started to talk the immediate thing that came to my mind was the russian spy from Austin Powers, Ivana Humpalot... good looking lass, but please don't open your mouth!

(turned out she may have been a Russian bride or something )

 

[seeingISbelieving]

Dragons Den . . . typical made for TV dross. Uninspiring, and very irritating watching a panel of posing, potential investors who come across for the main part as arrogant beyond belief . . . their money orientated ego trip, coupled with their blatant sense of self-importance makes me wince.

But hey ho, guess what? It's still good watching some of the better ideas and inventions on the show, whatever the search criteria is for appearing. And it's even better when you read in the papers of the many Dragons contestants who've gone on to make huge successes of their inventions/products, despite being rejected and ridiculed by the all knowing, self-proclaimed panel of business gurus. He who laughs last . . . .

 

[andygambles]

It can be good for many seeking investment purely for the exposure. They may not want investment.

 

[Big Pete]

I love the program , but apart from the 3 lads at the end god some idiots out there isnt there ..

One thing that did suprise me , the hair extension one, they invested in , without asking about any patents etc etc.. if the extension attachment is that good ALL Hair salons will be doing it soon , so whats the point in buying into a couple of hair shops ? that would of been the main and only important thing before making me part with a few quid ..

The lilo with a towel ohh that cracked me up , and they have invested and honestly believe they are gonna make millions yea right ..

Then the 2 women with the sticks and the singing ohhh jeeez that was funny . its her tune , she would sue Pete Jones ahh classic..

Then the boxer , with his belt , convinced i bet that he is going to sell millions , its a belt with a bit of foam rubber wrapped around it ..

Brilliant TV viewing .. and the valuations ohh classic.. well i reckon i am going to sell millions in a few years so i want 100k for 5% Unbelievable

roll on next weeks ...

 

I love the program , but apart from the 3 lads at the end god some idiots out there isnt there ..

The only idiots are the ones who don't take up the offer of free advertising to millions of people for 10 minutes.

 

[Big Pete]

The only idiots are the ones who don't take up the offer of free advertising to millions of people for 10 minutes.

Oh for sure , for the right products .. but nope not tempted by a lilo with a towel in the slightest , indeed they come out looking like idiots , they will need to move house
Also a risky move . as if say the lilo with a towel is a great product others will copy it and so can work 2 ways..

Also if i was in freight or parcel delivery . by about now on the website would be the "Students special carriage deals" etc etc .. the idiot has actually given all couriers a nice niche.. free of charge right , cut his own throat ,so to speak ..

 

Oh for sure , for the right products .. but nope not tempted by a lilo with a towel in the slightest , indeed they come out looking like idiots , they will need to move house
Also a risky move . as if say the lilo with a towel is a great product others will copy it and so can work 2 ways..

Also if i was in freight or parcel delivery . by about now on the website would be the "Students special carriage deals" etc etc .. the idiot has actually given all couriers a nice niche.. free of charge right , cut his own throat ,so to speak ..

Its a celeb society once you been on the box,yous is one no matter what crap you are pedaling.

 

[cash_is_king]

I enjoy dragons den, what other shows are there for business minded people? Just look what the apprentice has become.

Yeh it is cut to ribbons and edited to make good 'reality tv' for the average Joe.

But there are some great business lessons hidden amongst all the TV BS, and 5 highly successful people to observe

'what you look for, you will find'

 

[internetspaceships]

But there are some great business lessons hidden amongst all the TV BS,

Yes, like how to add up, and how to know how much your turnover is, and what the difference between a quote and an order really means

I do agree though, you can choose to learn things or choose write it all off as rubbish, that's the choice people make when they watch it.

I think the dragons have got so despondent with the constant stream of clueless idiots they are presented with that they bite too easily.