Domain Name Help?

[HostOrca]

I did the day it went down ..... I was being led by my web hosting company - if your solicitor gave you advice in an area you knew nothing about would you check him out, would you know how to?? If you are reassured, guaranteed everything will be OK - wouldn't you think that it should be OK? I am not a computer wizz, neither do I understand such things, having owned it for many years with absolutely no problem I did not foresee any problems as I do not have any experience in this field.

You can always be so wiser AFTER the event, believe me I have learnt alot here in the last two days - it's an area that I have absolutely no knowledge about or understanding, neither do I pretend that I know.

Peole are criticising people here for posting rubbish, to me I am grateful as they are trying to help for which I am very thankful. It is good to have many people's opinions, we can all learn from it and let's hope this unfortunate circumstance does not happen to anyone else.

Well said!

We all have our own areas that we are experts in, whether it be IT, accounting, joinery, whatever. Step outside your expertise area, and you start relying on other peoples expertise, sometimes you'll get good advice, sometimes you will not, but the only way you'll learn is by asking for advice, and learning from your mistakes.

I hope you get the domain name sorted out. My experience with enom has been prity good, but they can be a bit slow with support/resolving issues, but then they do have to consider both sides.

 

[XEC Internet Consultants]

I hope you get the domain name sorted out. My experience with enom has been prity good, but they can be a bit slow with support/resolving issues, but then they do have to consider both sides.

You can only can get the domain back for via Nominet.

The relevance of eNom is that you might have some kind of compensation case for not passing on the information about renewing etc. Good luck!

If it is a registrar issue, you could also raise that with Nominet since all registrars sign up to terms and conditions etc in order to conduct business with Nominet.

STephen.

 

[KM-Tiger]

On a side issue I am appalled though that this thread has been allowed to stay up here un-edited for four days and is well indexed by google despite you (a moderator I now notice!) knowing that the title if not the contents of a similar nature are untrue

That's just the nature of a public forum. A mix of good, bad, ill-informed and expert advice, with interjections of any value you care to name.

It is up to the reader to decide the worth of any contribution.

There are ways of ranking replies, eg the system at Experts Exchange, but they would stifle open discussion, which is what this forum is about.

 

[robertt]

That's just the nature of a public forum. A mix of good, bad, ill-informed and expert advice, with interjections of any value you care to name.

It is up to the reader to decide the worth of any contribution.

There are ways of ranking replies, eg the system at Experts Exchange, but they would stifle open discussion, which is what this forum is about.

I think you have missed my point, to be more clear:

The title of this thread and aspects of its contents is that a company (with name and address stated inside it) has committed a criminal act - which is untrue.

In your opinion would stating your Tiger Computing company trade illegally and commit theft be just the 'nature of a public forum'' ?! I very much doubt it

The issue of crap advice is a side one, and reflects on those who gave it.

Good to see the mod's have edited the title - perhaps tidy up the 'naming and shaming' element as well as it still has information pulled from Nominet's WHOIS data, technically against their terms and pretty bad form anyway.

 

[Vending Siting Services]

Thank you Mods for changing the title in my thread, great choice of title.

Regards.

Barbara

 

[OldWelshGuy]

I am apalled at the way some people have ripped strips off the OP. Barbara posted what at the time she had been told was correct, it later transpired that she used the wrong term WOW HOW BAD IS THAT. Of course NONE OF US make mistakes do we

Guys, what if it was YOUR domain? how would YOU feel?

One thing I would say though Barbara is that you need to try and get a resolution from Nominet over this, I know it will cost you £750 to report it, but that is by the by. My advice (if Enom don't sort it within a week or so) would be to contact the new owner, inform him/her that you have made contact, that there is precident on cases like this, and that you will get your domain back. Inform him that it is going to cost you £750 to begin the legal route of getting your domain back, and offer him/her that as a final offer for your domain.

In doing this, you will not have paid out any more than (IMO) you are going to end up paying anyhow, but you WILL have got your domain backl a lot quicker.

Search the Nominet dispute history files for cases like yours, and quote them. Might even be worth going through a solicitor.

 

[Ididit]

One thing I would say though Barbara is that you need to try and get a resolution from Nominet over this, I know it will cost you £750 to report it, but that is by the by. My advice (if Enom don't sort it within a week or so) would be to contact the new owner, inform him/her that you have made contact, that there is precident on cases like this, and that you will get your domain back. Inform him that it is going to cost you £750 to begin the legal route of getting your domain back, and offer him/her that as a final offer for your domain.

In doing this, you will not have paid out any more than (IMO) you are going to end up paying anyhow, but you WILL have got your domain backl a lot quicker.

Search the Nominet dispute history files for cases like yours, and quote them. Might even be worth going through a solicitor.

Sorry this is bad advice and will only be a waste of time and money

 

[robertt]

I am apalled at the way some people have ripped strips off the OP. Barbara posted what at the time she had been told was correct, it later transpired that she used the wrong term WOW HOW BAD IS THAT. Of course NONE OF US make mistakes do we

There is making a mistake, and tarnishing someones reputation badly. There are ways and means of doing things!

'Thief' and 'cybersquatter' are indeed wrong terms, as above, would you take it as a straightforward mistake if I said your company traded illegally and commited theft?

One thing I would say though Barbara is that you need to try and get a resolution from Nominet over this, I know it will cost you £750 to report it, but that is by the by. My advice (if Enom don't sort it within a week or so) would be to contact the new owner, inform him/her that you have made contact, that there is precident on cases like this, and that you will get your domain back. Inform him that it is going to cost you £750 to begin the legal route of getting your domain back, and offer him/her that as a final offer for your domain.

...

Search the Nominet dispute history files for cases like yours, and quote them. Might even be worth going through a solicitor.

You say there is a precedent - feel free to point one or any out that is like this case , index of DRS decisions and appeals is at http://www.nominet.org.uk/disputes/drs/decisions/decisions1/

I do not understand why you have posted this 'advice', the OP has acknowledged that the failure to renew has caused this situation - who exactly is to blame (themselves, old ISP, new ISP?) on that point is open to debate.

There will have been a bill paid to renew the domain name and a contract with that company. That contract has been broken and that is the route to go down, further they have 'guaranteed' the name would not be lost.


On a side note, another lesson for readers to learn from this is that USA based registrar's dont always 'get' .uk as the systems / policy / timeframes are quite different from the norm. Thus I would suggest where possible to use a UK based registrar as its often easier to control / chase things up when they are more 'local'.

 

[OldWelshGuy]

Sorry this is bad advice and will only be a waste of time and money

Why? Cmon you can't just slate the advice and not offer an alternative or a reason why. Which part is wrong? all of it, some of it? cmon fess up

 

[Ididit]

Why? Cmon you can't just slate the advice and not offer an alternative or a reason why. Which part is wrong? all of it, some of it? cmon fess up

Well you state the grounds why you believe it is good advice for Barbara to wate £750+VAT and then I will tell you why it isnt.

 

[OldWelshGuy]

There is making a mistake, and tarnishing someones reputation badly. There are ways and means of doing things!

'Thief' and 'cybersquatter' are indeed wrong terms, as above, would you take it as a straightforward mistake if I said your company traded illegally and commited theft?

you are simply being argumentative for the sake of it and also economical with the truth as well. Barabara was told by the company she trusts, the company she believed to be expert in this field that the new registrant was indeed a thief and a cybersquatter.

If you referred to me as that, and your defence was that your solicitor had told you that that is what I was, then I would haul you AND your solicitor into court. HOWEVER how many lay people know the actual meaning of 'cybersquatter' HELL how many JUDGES know it?

You say there is a precedent - feel free to point one or any out that is like this case , index of DRS decisions and appeals is at http://www.nominet.org.uk/disputes/drs/decisions/decisions1/

There IS precident. if it worries you so much I suggest you carry out the research yourself. One thing though, why do you feel that this incident is limited in precident PURELY by past judgements of Nominet?

I do not understand why you have posted this 'advice', the OP has acknowledged that the failure to renew has caused this situation - who exactly is to blame (themselves, old ISP, new ISP?) on that point is open to debate.

What is it with this 'blame ' thing, why has someone have to be to blame? A series of unfortunate incidents can cause things like this to happen.

I almost posted the grounds for getting the domain back then.. because they do exist.

There will have been a bill paid to renew the domain name and a contract with that company. That contract has been broken and that is the route to go down, further they have 'guaranteed' the name would not be lost.

So how well qualified in contract law are you then? Because if you are you will see that there is a HUGE hole in the new registration. I will say no more on the open forum though.

On a side note, another lesson for readers to learn from this is that USA based registrar's dont always 'get' .uk as the systems / policy / timeframes are quite different from the norm. Thus I would suggest where possible to use a UK based registrar as its often easier to control / chase things up when they are more 'local'.

AFAIK the Op went to Enom as a result of transfer not by choice? Isn't that the case?

No point in my commenting openly on this any longer though as some in this thread have a vested interest in apportioning blame. In fact treating it possibly as a PR excercise

I have Pm'ed those that matter.

 

[robertt]

If you referred to me as that, and your defence was that your solicitor had told you that that is what I was, then I would haul you AND your solicitor into court. HOWEVER how many lay people know the actual meaning of 'cybersquatter' HELL how many JUDGES know it?

Ah, two wrongs making a right with some ignorance as a defence on top - excellent. I am glad though we agree on the course of action and the seriousness of such allegations.

The lay person may not know what a cybersquatter is, however I would wager most know what 'stealing' involves

There IS precident. if it worries you so much I suggest you carry out the research yourself. One thing though, why do you feel that this incident is limited in precident PURELY by past judgements of Nominet?

You are the one who told the OP to "Search the Nominet dispute history files for cases like yours, and quote them"

I am asking for you to point them out as they do not exist

I cannot see an issue of quoting existing case law, or DRS decisions that back up your position as its all public domain

Feel free to educate me, as I have done research and cannot find one jot where someone has claimed rights and won to a name in such circumstances?

So how well qualified in contract law are you then? Because if you are you will see that there is a HUGE hole in the new registration. I will say no more on the open forum though.

There is a direct contract with nominet with the new registration (tagholder/member and registrant same entity) ? No holes there.

Domain names are contract rights, the old 'owner', which was an entity that did not exist (OP's admission) failed to renew as per the three way contract (ISP/Nominet/Registrant) and thus the name expired. Even if it had not, it ought to have been deleted as the entity with it ceased to exist and the name had not been moved elsewhere.

Nothing tricky there, and the OP is upset and looking for for the name back, thus the damage to be put right. ie. apportion blame

No point in my commenting openly on this any longer though as some in this thread have a vested interest in apportioning blame. In fact treating it possibly as a PR excercise

My 'vested' interest is stuff like this reinforces the view that anyone who deals in domain names = cybersquatters, which is simply not the case. I posted back in 2007 on here regarding how any industry has cowboys, and domain related stuff is the same however not all are dodgy!

In this thread we have had lots of inaccurate and ill informed 'advice' and 'facts' slurring the names of not only the registrant of the domain in question, other registrants plus Nominet as well.

It seems the OP has had enough crap advice that has led her to this situation in the first place, and taking even more on board could cost more time and money down the drain.

I really hope you have PM'ed solid examples to the OP as vague statements of 'it costs £750 to report it to Nominet' is incorrect (its free to start a DRS) does not inspire confidence.

As always I am more than happy to be proven wrong, but for distress caused already it would be a shame if the OP goes down another unsucessful painful path

 

[MichaelToth]

Thanks for the reply.

The site was on lock (whatever that means) and there was a release date which my web hosting company had diarised.

We have no agreement in place.

My previous web hosting company did not inform us that it needed renewing.

It was a .co.uk

Regards.

Barbara

Hi Barbara,

I am on the policy advisory board at Nominet (it is a voluntary position which the members elect you on to) and have an indepth knowledge of these kind of legal matters.

It all seem very unfortunate, but it seems Nominet followed the terms and conditions that applied to the name everytime you renewed it.

There is no lock state when a domain name is in renewel, it can be renewed at anytime during this suspension period, either by you direct with nominet or via your hosting/registrar company.

Also the person the has now registered the name has bought it legally from Nominet. Nominet terms state that if a name is free (which it was) then it is allocated to a new registrant on a first come first served basis.

I would now be looking at your hosting company for redress if they have failed you in any form of a contract that you have with them. If you have no contract and it was the responsibility of the old hosting company, then it will be virtually impossible to get any compensation, unless to go to court. Very costly and you may not be successful.

There is alsways Nominets DRS, and with my indepth knowledge of it i would say you would have no chance. It may be worth a punt at £750.00 plus vat and lawyers fees to write it.

My advice would be to either sue the hosting company if they rally have not got in touch with you or negotiate a figure and buy the name back.

Regards Michael Toth

 

[OldWelshGuy]

My guess is she will take legal advice, and the matter will be dealt with in private by professionals.

 

[Ididit]

My guess is she will take legal advice, and the matter will be dealt with in private by professionals.

The only way Barbara will get the domain name back is by talking to the new registrant but considering the things said about them here will they be that sympathetic.

Any legal action or use of the DRS wont work.

In the DRS the complainant has to PROOVE abuse has taken place. This is easy if the domain name is unique to their business ie 'barbarasjellybeans.co.uk' but it isnt.

jellybeans.co.uk is a descriptive and generic domain name. It is the name of a type of sweet similar to crisps.co.uk, chocolate.co.uk, mints.co.uk and toffeeapples.co.uk

The new registrant can use it legitamately for the purpose of selling sweets if they so wish.

If Barbara was originally using jellybeans.co.uk to sell say a brand of coffee and the new registrant was using it to sell coffee then again she may have been able to proove abuse under the DRS - but she wasnt and they arnt

case closed

 

[OldWelshGuy]

The only way Barbara will get the domain name back is by talking to the new registrant but considering the things said about them here will they be that sympathetic.

Any legal action or use of the DRS wont work.

In the DRS the complainant has to PROOVE abuse has taken place. This is easy if the domain name is unique to their business ie 'barbarasjellybeans.co.uk' but it isnt.

jellybeans.co.uk is a descriptive and generic domain name. It is the name of a type of sweet similar to crisps.co.uk, chocolate.co.uk, mints.co.uk and toffeeapples.co.uk

The new registrant can use it legitamately for the purpose of selling sweets if they so wish.

If Barbara was originally using jellybeans.co.uk to sell say a brand of coffee and the new registrant was using it to sell coffee then again she may have been able to proove abuse under the DRS - but she wasnt and they arnt

case closed

Are you a professional in the legal industry? are you a district judge or higher? I only ask as you say 'case closed' if not then your advice is no better or no worse than anyone else, it is PURE opinion, not fact

 

[adam]

this is getting a little bit stupid now. Let Barbara speak to the right people and come back to us.

 

[Ididit]

your advice is no better or no worse than anyone else, it is PURE opinion, not fact

So this statement from you below telling Barbara that she WILL get her domain name back if she pays Nominet £750 is only YOUR opinion and not based on fact.

One thing I would say though Barbara is that you need to try and get a resolution from Nominet over this, I know it will cost you £750 to report it, but that is by the by. My advice (if Enom don't sort it within a week or so) would be to contact the new owner, inform him/her that you have made contact, that there is precident on cases like this, and that you will get your domain back. Inform him that it is going to cost you £750 to begin the legal route of getting your domain back, and offer him/her that as a final offer for your domain.

In doing this, you will not have paid out any more than (IMO) you are going to end up paying anyhow, but you WILL have got your domain backl a lot quicker.

Search the Nominet dispute history files for cases like yours, and quote them. Might even be worth going through a solicitor.

 

[XEC Internet Consultants]

this is getting a little bit stupid now. Let Barbara speak to the right people and come back to us.

Agreed - and the right people in the first place are Nominet not solicitors etc.

Personally, from what I have read here I think she has virtually no chance and I would caution about throwing any money at this. Nominet will give you plenty of free advice.

Stephen.

 

[OldWelshGuy]

So this statement from you below telling Barbara that she WILL get her domain name back if she pays Nominet £750 is only YOUR opinion and not based on fact.

I just said that, why are you repeating it? I stated that "no better or no worse than anyone else, it is PURE opinion, not fact "

The phrase 'Anyone else' included myself.

 

[robertt]

I just said that, why are you repeating it? I stated that "no better or no worse than anyone else, it is PURE opinion, not fact "

The phrase 'Anyone else' included myself.

Thats where I was going wrong I mean reading stuff like "you WILL have got your domain back" made out that you were pretty sure of yourself

Likewise you saying "Search the Nominet dispute history files for cases like yours, and quote them" and then "there is precident on cases like this, and that you will get your domain back" made me think you knew of a case that I (and others) had not spotted. Silly me

this is getting a little bit stupid now. Let Barbara speak to the right people and come back to us.

I agree and I hope the OP does keep this thread updated on how they get on and what lessons others can learn from it

 

[OldWelshGuy]

Thats where I was going wrong I mean reading stuff like "you WILL have got your domain back" made out that you were pretty sure of yourself

Likewise you saying "Search the Nominet dispute history files for cases like yours, and quote them" and then "there is precident on cases like this, and that you will get your domain back" made me think you knew of a case that I (and others) had not spotted. Silly me



I agree and I hope the OP does keep this thread updated on how they get on and what lessons others can learn from it

GOD some people are arrogant and sarcastic aren't they! I am not going to bite on oyur baiting I am afraid, all my communication now will be via Pm, and to those that matter.

 

[robertt]

GOD some people are arrogant and sarcastic aren't they! I am not going to bite on oyur baiting I am afraid, all my communication now will be via Pm, and to those that matter.

They were your words not mine, and you are the one backtracking from them.

In my book it is better to be arrogant and sarcastic than give out duff advice that can cost people hundreds if not thousands of pounds

You have said a couple of times you wont post anymore and PM only - as I said above, lets keep it that way and see what the OP reports back and how that can benefit others.