Thanks I remember someone going on about backlinks no longer working. It seems it is the same thing. But surely, meaningful links will push you up the ranking? They don't just ingore them all? Regardless, it still brings me back to the idea that the objective is getting meaningful traffic to your site, not going up google's rankings. I paid an seo company once and their results were purely where the product was positioned before and after the exercise. yet site traffic was still not high enough to justify going on with it...my objectives were clouded by seo-speak. In summary, fvck google, I can get the traffic in other ways. Right?