Disciplinary hearing

[hoezapp]

Disciplinary hearing

I am facing a disciplinary hearing for falling to evacuate the building while fire alarm was on. During the investigation meeting I was told that this is a gross misconduct which can lead to being dismissed.

The fire alarm keeps going on and off in my company quite often, that day was 2nd time in less then half an hour, and when we go to the fire assembly point there is always someone missing. I was not aware of the gross misconduct. The company has almost 100 employees and we never had any fire training, as well as no handbook was never given to me.

Can the company really dismiss me?

Thank you in advance for your support

 

[StevensOnln1]

Were you supposed to be responsible for making sure that other people were out, or is the issue that you failed to leave the building yourself?

 

[fisicx]

Are you a fire Marshall? Are you responsible for ensuring the building is clear? If so you should have been trained. If you have not been trained then the company is negligent and not you.

They can fire you. But if they do you can claim unfair dismissal

 

[Newchodge]

In what way did you fail to evacuate the building? Did you not leave? Did you allow people for whom you are responsible not leave? Did you advise people not to leave? Did you prevent people from leaving?

How long have you been employed by them, and in what role?

Are there fire notices displayed telling staff what to do in the event of a fire?

 

[hoezapp]

I went to the toilet and I told them it was an urgency for me to go to the toilet, then when I went back in the building I saw my manager I just stopped my machine and I did follow him, at the end I did evacuate the building it just took me 1 min longer then other people

 

[hoezapp]

I have never seen any fire notice

In what way did you fail to evacuate the building? Did you not leave? Did you allow people for whom you are responsible not leave? Did you advise people not to leave? Did you prevent people from leaving?

How long have you been employed by them, and in what role?

Are there fire notices displayed telling staff what to do in the event of a fire?

I have never seen any fire notice

 

[fisicx]

Had the alarm gone off before you went to the toilet? If so you were in the wrong.

 

[hoezapp]

Had the alarm gone off before you went to the toilet? If so you were in the wrong.

yes it had gone off, I know it was a bit silly. However the investigation meeting did allow me to learn about a 2nd fire assembly point which could be a life saving for me. We only have 2 ways to exit the building to reach my fire assembly point and sometimes they close the second way, and if the fire is on the way of the 1st fire exit, in that case knowing a 2nd assembly point is really a life saving.

 

[kulture]

It sounds like serious training is required. Not just for you but everyone. It is also a concern that you mention that one of just 2 exits is sometimes closed. I feel that there is a far more serious issue here than a simple not evacuating

 

[hoezapp]

When the alarm had gone off the 1st time, I remember my supervisor was saying that one colleague of us was burned to death, it was just joking of course, he just wanted to say that we could not find him. And during the investigation meeting I did tell them that one person was missing, and they told me that people evacuate the building in the nearest assembly point according to where they are when the alarm goes off, and then I did ask them: How the fire marshals know where people are from one assembly point to another? and they told me that they talk trough walkie talky, and then I did tell them again: So he was missing!, and then they said we will investigate about him, and then on the letter I have received now regarding the hearing they say that that guy was accounted on the 2nd assembly point. I am writing this just to highlight the chaos that happens every time the fire alarm goes off.

 

[hoezapp]

During the investigation meeting I also told them, that since I have been working there, every time the alarm has gone off, I have never seen my manager at the fire assembly point, and they told me that he goes to the 2nd fire assembly point and that is when I learnt about the 2nd fire assembly point.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

@hoezapp Are you responsible for your managers actions?

Have you had evacuation training?

 

[hoezapp]

@hoezapp Are you responsible for your managers actions?

Have you had evacuation training?

I am not too sure what do you mean by "responsible for your managers actions"

No I have never had evacuating training

 

[Newchodge]

I went to the toilet and I told them it was an urgency for me to go to the toilet, then when I went back in the building I saw my manager I just stopped my machine and I did follow him, at the end I did evacuate the building it just took me 1 min longer then other people

The alaem went off and you then went to the toilet? Stupid
You left the toilet and went back into the building? Idiocy
It just took me 1 min longer than other people? You obnvioucly cannot tell the time.

At the disciplimary hearing do not complain about what others may or may not have done.

Apologise for what you did and describe the lack of training, notices and your own understanding.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

I am not too sure what do you mean by "responsible for your managers actions"

If your manager does not report to you, do not use the childish response "well they didn't do it so why should I?"

No I have never had evacuating training

Use this as your defence, HOWEVER, if you hear a fire alarm, you generally leave the building.....

 

[hoezapp]

If your manager does not report to you, do not use the childish response "well they didn't do it so why should I?"

I was just genuinely asking becasue I did not know where people go when the alarm goes off

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

I did not know where people go when the alarm goes off

and when we go to the fire assembly point

You do or you don't?

If you have worked for the company for less than 2 years, they don't need an excuse to get rid of you, however, if they use gross misconduct relating to fire evacuation, you might have a case - @Newchodge ?

 

[hoezapp]

The alaem went off and you then went to the toilet? Stupid
You left the toilet and went back into the building? Idiocy
It just took me 1 min longer than other people? You obnvioucly cannot tell the time.

At the disciplimary hearing do not complain about what others may or may not have done.

Apologise for what you did and describe the lack of training, notices and your own understanding.

We only have some signs on the fire exit doors saying "FIRE EXIT" and I did not see anything else

 

[Newchodge]

If you have worked for the company for less than 2 years, they don't need an excuse to get rid of you, however, if they use gross misconduct relating to fire evacuation, you might have a case - @Newchodge ?

Doubtful, it would depend on the actual circumstances.

 

[hoezapp]

You do or you don't?

If you have worked for the company for less than 2 years, they don't need an excuse to get rid of you, however, if they use gross misconduct relating to fire evacuation, you might have a case - @Newchodge ?

I know that my employment rights are not much because I have been with them for less then 2 years, I only learnt about the 2nd fire assembly point during the investigation meeting

 

[hoezapp]

The alaem went off and you then went to the toilet? Stupid
You left the toilet and went back into the building? Idiocy
It just took me 1 min longer than other people? You obnvioucly cannot tell the time.

At the disciplimary hearing do not complain about what others may or may not have done.

Apologise for what you did and describe the lack of training, notices and your own understanding.

Thank you
I also want to say that the investigation meting was really helpful for me because it did allow me to learn more about fire alarm, getting to know the 2nd fire assembly point it is really life saving for me

 

[hoezapp]

I did contact my legal help line and I think here the outcomes will be:
1) Just a warning. Which I do not think they will
2) Dismissal with notice. Which I do not think they will
3) Dismissal without notice. Which is what they are aiming for
We will only know this after the hearing

 

[Topcat58]

If you have been there less than two years then your chances of bringing an employment tribunal claim are very very weak. i wouldn't bother. On the basis that they haven't sacked you I agree with previous comments, just apologise and say it wont happen again. If the place was burning down and you decided going to the toilet was more important then you would be dead not sacked.

However proper training and familiarisation on fire procedures is important for all staff and this sounds like an issue.

If you had more than two years service is failing to evacuate the building when the alarm sounds gross misconduct? Liable to summary dismissal without notice. I would very much doubt it if such a case ever got to an ET. But why behave like a fool in the first place?

Sounds to me they might just want you out.

 

[MatB]

The outcome was?

 

[hoezapp]

At the end I have never had not even a waning, I also left that company I got better job, Thank you very much to all of you for the Great support