Contractor damage

[Nomis99]

Hi, I run a small business from home which is 99% mail-order.
I have a pub/hotel next door which is having some renovation work done.
During this process one of their contractors managed to bring my telephone line down.
It took Openreach 16 days to send a team out with cherry picker to put line back up.
During this time I had no phone or internet, so therefore no business at all.
I think I have reasonable grounds to sue for loss of earnings, do I approach the Hotel owners as they employed the contractor or do I need to chase the contractor myself?
Any advice I'm grateful...
Thanks

 

[Gecko001]

I do not think you can sue either the hotel or the contractor. Your contract is with Openreach so you need to take it up with them. They will probably have a clause in their contract with you where they do not guarantee continuity of service so it is very unlikely that you will getting anything from there. If you create a fuss you might get a good will gesture payment so that you will not change provider.

The contractor will not get off without paying for the damage they have done and will probably get a bill from whoever owns the line (which is probably BT).

I would consider getting a business line which is more expensive, but such a line usually has a same day call-out for line faults. I used to have one in my home business and they usually responded within a few hours.

 

[Nomis99]

Thanks for the reply, but I disagree, what have Openreach got to do with the damage to the line? They weren't responsible for damaging the line.....

 

[MikeJ]

Why not write to both? You've no relationship with either, so the hotel would probably just put it on to the contractor.

However... you'd need to demonstrate and quantify loss, and you're expected to take reasonable action to minimise your loss.

 

[fisicx]

During this time I had no phone or internet, so therefore no business at all.

You could have brought a dongle and been back online within an hour. You could have redirected your BT number to your mobile and not missed a single call.

 

[Gecko001]

Thanks for the reply, but I disagree, what have Openreach got to do with the damage to the line? They weren't responsible for damaging the line.....

No they have nothing to do with damaging the line. I did not say that they were liable. A gesture of good will payment is one which someone makes without claiming any liability. In this case they might make such a payment if they see that they have a very unhappy customer who they probably know will not be able to claim damages successfully under the law.

I would consult a solicitor before taking action with regard to suing someone, as I am sure they have come across this sort of thing dozens of time.

 

[Nomis99]

Why not write to both? You've no relationship with either, so the hotel would probably just put it on to the contractor.

However... you'd need to demonstrate and quantify loss, and you're expected to take reasonable action to minimise your loss.

Just to clarify, I have already written to the hotel without much luck, they are denying it's anything to do with them and keep referring me to the contractor. But as I ahve no details of said contractor, that might be a lot harder.
Different people are offering me different advice, saying its not the contractor who I should be chasing, it;s the people who ordered the work (the hotel).
I just wanted some advice if anyone knew for sure?

 

[Nomis99]

You could have brought a dongle and been back online within an hour. You could have redirected your BT number to your mobile and not missed a single call.

You mean I could have 'bought' a dongle?

A phone line can not be transferred to a line which does not have a dial tone.......one of the first things I checked...;-)

 

[fisicx]

But aren't transferring to a line, you would be forwarding to your mobile - this would happen at the exchange not at you home.

And yes 'brought'. Did you consider buying one?

And it's got nothing to do with the hotel, it's the contractor you need to chase. Will the hotel not give your their name?

 

[Nomis99]

But aren't transferring to a line, you would be forwarding to your mobile - this would happen at the exchange not at you home.

And yes 'brought'. Did you consider buying one?

And it's got nothing to do with the hotel, it's the contractor you need to chase. Will the hotel not give your their name?

I spoke to my line provider on several occasions, and apart from putting a new line up they said there's no way around it. I already have the call divert facility on my land line, but if there's no dial tone, it cannot transfer to anything......so I was told

I think you mean 'bought'.......no I did not buy one as I was told it was pointless!

I haven't pursued the contractor as of yet, mainly because after speaking to him the day after the damage occurred he struggled to string three English words together as he was obviously not from these shores, and I doubt if he had much in the way of relevant public liability insurance?

 

[SamLH]

Thanks for the reply, but I disagree, what have Openreach got to do with the damage to the line? They weren't responsible for damaging the line.....

When you say brought down the line you mean the line that Openreach are using to provide you a service?

The line isn't actually yours is it? Your contract is with Openreach, it does not matter what happens to the phone lines, thats Openreaches problem not yours...

 

[Nomis99]

When you say brought down the line you mean the line that Openreach are using to provide you a service?

The line isn't actually yours is it? Your contract is with Openreach, it does not matter what happens to the phone lines, thats Openreaches problem not yours...

No, it's 'my problem' when I'm losing business on a daily basis...

Just to clarify, I'm not blaming Openreach (BT) for anything, it's just the people responsible for the damage I'm trying to chase...

 

[SamLH]

No, it's 'my problem' when I'm losing business on a daily basis...

Yes, with Openreach. You don't own the phone line. If you had booked a taxi and the taxi didn't arrive because somebody crashed into it would you take it up with the taxi firm... yes you would.

 

[Nomis99]

Yes, with Openreach. You don't own the phone line. If you had booked a taxi and the taxi didn't arrive because somebody crashed into it would you take it up with the taxi firm... yes you would.

Please read my post above, I've never said I was blaming BT Openreach for anything.....

 

[Newchodge]

Perhaps you should seek a free legal advice appointment with a local solicitor.

 

[ffox]

Please read my post above, I've never said I was blaming BT Openreach for anything.....

Sadly it's not a matter of who is to blame, it's a matter of who you have a contract with. The phone line belongs to BT and you have a contract with BT for telephone services. As has already been pointed out, your contract is probably for residential or domestic phone services rather than business. You need to review that contract to see what repair response you have signed up and paid for.
You could have mitigated the damage using call divert. Please note, this is not call forwarding. Call forwarding is from a working phone to another phone. Call divert is done from the exchange and doesn't require the original phone to be working.
Who advised you on this? If it was BT, you may have a case against their support services for misinformation. BT call centres retain audio copies of all of their agents calls, so a complaint may bring you some advancement.
You could have further mitigated the damage by purchasing and using a 2G, 3G or 4G dongle, provided that the mobile Internet service Is available in your location. Internet connection has nothing to do with the line that carries the data.
Again, who advised you on this?
Hope this helps.

 

[paulears]

Surely you apprciate that any fault to the line is the problem for your provider to resolve? The cause of any fault is often never communicated to you - be it your cherry picker, a water leak half a mile away or a car totalling the green box. You complain to whoever you pay for your service, they then take it up with Openreach in most cases. You could so easily have got back online and in voice communication. BT, for example, were useless in solving my accidental removal of fibre - somebody at the exchange disconnected, and removed equipment - took three weeks. In the meantime, a BT gave me an access dongle, and diverted my business incoming calls to my domestic phone line, as I work from home. They also applied a credit to the account - quie a big one, which was handy. I lost nothing, apart from high speed access. You seem to have not been looked after very well by your service provider, and need to complain properly. Loss of business is a no go really, as you could so easily have fixed that.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

My first thought is are you covered by your insurance policy for problems outside your control

Second it contact a solicitor for the free half hour talk

Three the pub is the parson to talk to as they contracted the company who worked under their control

As others have said your only likely claim is reduced a lot by you not taking any action to limit your losses by purchase of a dongle or having a temporary one from your line supplier

 

[Nomis99]

First of all thanks for the replies.
Secondly, I have no axe to grind with Openreach, they weren't responsible for the damage to the phone line. And just in case anyone is still not sure........ I never had any intention of taking 'any action' with them.
My line provider is Sky, who I spoke to on a daily basis for any updates they had from Openreach as to when the line would be fixed.
Sky made no mention of any 'dongle' being available, and I must admit it's the first thing I've heard of one. (things you learn when it's too late eh?) but thanks for the future reference.
My only confusion is who my action should be against?
Hotel who employed contractor, or contractor who did the damage?

Many thanks

 

[Newchodge]

OPENREACH. The contractor damaged Openreach's property. If there is a claim then it is for Openreach to claim against the contractor who damaged THEIR property. You claim for anything you can because of Openreach's failure to maintain your supply (even though it was not their fault) and they claim anything they have lost (including your claim) against the contractor.

 

[Nomis99]

OPENREACH. The contractor damaged Openreach's property. If there is a claim then it is for Openreach to claim against the contractor who damaged THEIR property. You claim for anything you can because of Openreach's failure to maintain your supply (even though it was not their fault) and they claim anything they have lost (including your claim) against the contractor.

Having spoken to three different Openreach employees, they all said Openreach will be billing someone for their damage and costs, either Hotel owners or contractor.
Their legal team wouldn't communicate with me, even though I have pictures and evidence of the damage to help them back up their claim.
And as Sky is my line provider, Openreach will not communicate with me over any phone line matter

 

[fisicx]

In which case you need to talk to sky, they are the people you pay for the service.

As to the dongle, if you have a mobile phone then they can give you a dongle. Or you can even make your phone a wifi hotspot and use that to connect to the Internet. Or you could have asked your neighbour if you could connect to their wifi. There are loads of different ways you could have remained online.

 

[Newchodge]

In that case you claim against Sky, who claim against Openreach, who claim against the contractor

 

[Nomis99]

In which case you need to talk to sky, they are the people you pay for the service.

As to the dongle, if you have a mobile phone then they can give you a dongle. Or you can even make your phone a wifi hotspot and use that to connect to the Internet. Or you could have asked your neighbour if you could connect to their wifi. There are loads of different ways you could have remained online.

Yes, I did use my mobile to use as a hot spot, for limited internet connection. But was a less important consequence.
As I've already stated I've run adverts in many magazines and publishments for many years, many repeat customers have my phone number in their contacts and just use to order on a regular basis. It is these customers that I've lost because they had no other means of contact, and probably just used the next advertiser when my line just continually rang unanswered? I really have no proper idea, but the financial loss has been devastating especially at the time of year.... and I just feel that someone should be accountable...

 

[smallclaimsassistance]

You have a strong claim against the hotel. The contractor was at the time acting as their servant or agent, and on their instructions. The accident was caused by the negligence of the contractor, but the hotel is vicariously liable for the actions of their servants or agents.

There are indeed potential claims against others, and there are other ways you can direct the claim (suing both the contractor and the hotel - not advisable for costs reasons which I don't need to go into here), but your most direct action is against the hotel. They will then have a claim for indemnity in respect of your action against the contractor.

I note your comment that you have received conflicting advice. I have been pursuing multi party actions for decades, and I can assure you that this is the most appropriate approach.

Dean

 

[Gecko001]

I thought that Openreach was your provider. If Sky is your provider then it is they with whom you have your contract, thus it is Sky that you must pursue for any claims for damages. But again they probably will have a clause in their contract where they do not guarantee continuity of supply and thus cannot be held legally liable under the contract, but they may do something for you without admitting liability. If they ignore you, then persist with them.