Consumer debt - help please

[Mark T Jones]

It's several decades since I collected consumer debt - it seems that 'turn up and take goods to the value of' is frowned on these days

But seriously, the wife is an equine physiotherapist - lots of low-value consumer invoices. She usually just ignores the very occasional non-payer but there is one that she would really like to pursue for just £140.

From old parlance, the customer in question is an 'unsophisticated determined non-payer' (She has a long record of not paying, doesn't appear law savvy, but just ignores creditors til they go away).

To date:

Invoice sent - she responded asking to see wife's qualifications, which she provided.

Polite reminder sent - responded with non-specific 'price not justified' - wife reiterated work done and standard charges, which are completely in line with industry norm.

LBA sent registered post. My mistake, from a thread on here I now know it should be pre-action protocol.

Next step - pre action letter with relevant attachments - having signed for LBA, there is a high chance she won't sign again.

Court papers in 30 days.

In reality we don't expect to collect, but would like to get the judgement - I would value any advice from you lovely legal bods.

Many thanks!

 

[Mishoura]

It's several decades since I collected consumer debt - it seems that 'turn up and take goods to the value of' is frowned on these days

But seriously, the wife is an equine physiotherapist - lots of low-value consumer invoices. She usually just ignores the very occasional non-payer but there is one that she would really like to pursue for just £140.

From old parlance, the customer in question is an 'unsophisticated determined non-payer' (She has a long record of not paying, doesn't appear law savvy, but just ignores creditors til they go away).

To date:

Invoice sent - she responded asking to see wife's qualifications, which she provided.

Polite reminder sent - responded with non-specific 'price not justified' - wife reiterated work done and standard charges, which are completely in line with industry norm.

LBA sent registered post. My mistake, from a thread on here I now know it should be pre-action protocol.

Next step - pre action letter with relevant attachments - having signed for LBA, there is a high chance she won't sign again.

Court papers in 30 days.

In reality we don't expect to collect, but would like to get the judgement - I would value any advice from you lovely legal bods.

Many thanks!

What's the outstanding debt amount ?

 

[Mark T Jones]

What's the outstanding debt amount ?

£140

 

[Ozzy]

but there is one that she would really like to pursue for just £140.

Quoted from the OP above @Mishoura

 

[MBE2017]

I would send a standard follow up letter, detailing the small claims process, and that no further requests will be sent, giving your solicitor details for any correspondence after legal action starts.

Hopefully she will give in.

 

[The Byre]

£140 is cheap for a pukka equine physiotherapist. Come to think of it, far too cheap - unless it was nearby and just one session. I would get @smallclaimsassistance onto the job.

As for anything to do with horses -the animals are nearly always the easy part. It's like dogs - the owners are the problem! I was dealing with one poor animal that had to be put down because the owner kept it on a field of a pure single type of grass and not a mixed meadow.

Another died because it hardly ever was out of the stable and never even got to see grass, let alone a mixed meadow - but the daft owner gave it lots of horsey treats! I could have punched that stupid woman in the mouth - unfortunately witnesses were there so I didn't. But she didn't 'alf get an ear-full from me!

 

[smallclaimsassistance]

Thanks to Andrew for the recommendation ?, but you'd have to pay me more than that just to kick it off, so for that reason I don't do low value cases - the time taken to do the work is disproportionate to the amounts claimed.

@Mark T Jones however, I note you say that "She usually just ignores the very occasional non-payer", but neither she, nor anyone here, has to do so, just because legal help is costly. Several years ago I wrote some guides which cover the legal requirements of getting a case from debt to trial.

The reason I did this was because I was at the time taking on case after case from people who had started low value disputes, made mistakes, and needed someone to get their case back onto the rails. These guides show you how to do it properly, and they're available on my website.

To the MODs - This sounds like self promotion (it's no more self promotion than having the link to said guides in my signature - see below) but while I shy away from that, it's the most salient answer to the OPs question.

Dean

PS: completely agree about the animals/owners point, Andrew! ?

 

[The Byre]

Thanks to Andrew for the recommendation ?, but you'd have to pay me more than that just to kick it off, so for that reason I don't do low value cases - the time taken to do the work is disproportionate to the amounts claimed.

Bo-locks! I'd go after her just for the craic! Teach her a lesson! Have some funky fun rubbing her nose in her own belligerent stupidity! (I view the justice system as a source of entertainment.)

PS: completely agree about the animals/owners point, Andrew! ?

I deal with what they leave behind - damaged Great Danes and German Shepherds deemed too dangerous to be rehomed. My little granddaughter was here for a week and she was perfectly happy (and safe) with our latest round of inmates, one of which had a record of attacking little girls according to the previous (idiot) owners.

As a child, I used to train mice to catch peas. But I never managed to train them not to pee on me when I am sleeping, which meant I smelt 'different'. (Perhaps I still do, but not because I keep mice in my bed!)

 

[simon field]

Definitely use the MCOL route, sow a judgement on that sorry individual’s ass!

I can think of no earthly reason you won’t get it.

(Gut instinct says she’ll pay up)

Good luck ?

 

[Mark T Jones]

Thanks to Andrew for the recommendation ?, but you'd have to pay me more than that just to kick it off, so for that reason I don't do low value cases - the time taken to do the work is disproportionate to the amounts claimed.

@Mark T Jones however, I note you say that "She usually just ignores the very occasional non-payer", but neither she, nor anyone here, has to do so, just because legal help is costly. Several years ago I wrote some guides which cover the legal requirements of getting a case from debt to trial.

The reason I did this was because I was at the time taking on case after case from people who had started low value disputes, made mistakes, and needed someone to get their case back onto the rails. These guides show you how to do it properly, and they're available on my website.

To the MODs - This sounds like self promotion (it's no more self promotion than having the link to said guides in my signature - see below) but while I shy away from that, it's the most salient answer to the OPs question.

Dean

PS: completely agree about the animals/owners point, Andrew! ?

I'm very much on your side here, but you and I won't win that argument!

 

[Mark T Jones]

Bo-locks! I'd go after her just for the craic! Teach her a lesson! Have some funky fun rubbing her nose in her own belligerent stupidity! (I view the justice system as a source of entertainment.)

Very much my stance (particularly as business is quiet) - though I'm rusty on the consumer side of things

My view is that the wife has fulfilled her side of the contract, Mrs Debtor has made precisely no effort to fulfill hers. Let ghe fin roll on

 

[Mark T Jones]

Definitely use the MCOL route, sow a judgement on that sorry individual’s ass!

I can think of no earthly reason you won’t get it.

(Gut instinct says she’ll pay up)

Good luck ?

LBA usually draws out their intent, but not this time.

My guessing that it will go full distance and she still won't pay not overly worried about the latter - judgement will suffice

 

[simon field]

LBA usually draws out their intent, but not this time.

My guessing that it will go full distance and she still won't pay not overly worried about the latter - judgement will suffice

She might get away with an arrangement to pay and mess you about with that, but then if she doesn’t mind a ccj on her credit report I guess you might be right.

 

[Fagin2021]

I suspect you are dealing with one of those people who dispute every bill in the expectation that the creditor will give up pursuing a small debt because of the time and effort involved.

I applaud you for calling her bluff and, like @simon field, think she'll cough up when she realises you're prepared to go the whole hog.

If not, I know a couple of large gentlemen who, though poorly educated, have a comprehensive understanding of the human anatomy. They understood 'pain points' long before marketing consultants.

 

[MOIC]

If not, I know a couple of large gentlemen who, though poorly educated, have a comprehensive understanding of the human anatomy. They understood 'pain points' long before marketing consultants.

One should suffice.

 

[Bob Morgan]

One should suffice.

Ah yes, my 'Little Man in Fulham' comes to mind! - No job too big, No job too small! Everything from Wokingham Dowagers to PLCs!

 

[Ian J]

LBA usually draws out their intent, but not this time.

My guessing that it will go full distance and she still won't pay not overly worried about the latter - judgement will suffice

Many, many years ago I owned a local newspaper and as expected we had a lot of smallish non payers. I sued all of them in the County Court, won judgement against the lot and never received one solitary penny from any of them.

 

[bodgitt&scarperLTD]

That CCJ will really hurt come remortgage time, with rates rising. I'd go for it just for that.

Just do the small claims route online.

 

[The Byre]

That CCJ will really hurt come remortgage time, with rates rising.

This! And let her know that a CCJ may affect her credit rating!

 

[Mark T Jones]

That CCJ will really hurt come remortgage time, with rates rising. I'd go for it just for that.

Just do the small claims route online.

She's a tenant in a farm cottage.

TBH I really don't think she will care too much. But we have reasons

 

[Newchodge]

This! And let her know that a CCJ may affect her credit rating!

I think that a huge number of people's credit ratings are going to dive shortly, so it may not be as good a threat as it was. According to someone on the Jeremy Vne Radio 2 show, energy sellers are marking customers as poor payers because they have cancelled their direct debits with the intention of paying when the bill arrives! I didn't think that was legal?

 

[The Byre]

According to someone on the Jeremy Vne Radio 2 show,

Now, there's an authority if ever I heard one! Some random bloke on some vapid radio show for those who put their brain into neutral at the start of the working day!

 

[Mark T Jones]

I think that a huge number of people's credit ratings are going to dive shortly, so it may not be as good a threat as it was. According to someone on the Jeremy Vne Radio 2 show, energy sellers are marking customers as poor payers because they have cancelled their direct debits with the intention of paying when the bill arrives! I didn't think that was legal?

There appears to be a 'movement' to not pay - without thought to the consequences.

It's always been the case that CCJs sub £100 tend to be overlooked, I doubt £140 will be a biggie (though I suspect she has multiple CCJs). More sophisticated lenders look for patterns rather than one-offs.

Still though - Jeremy Vine?

 

[The Byre]

She's a tenant in a farm cottage.

Burn her!

Still though - Jeremy Vine?

Yes, the oracle has spoken - whoever he is. (Someone has to enlighten me - who the F is Jeremy Vine? I assume he is some species of DJ, which is IMO a life form somewhere between algae and amoeba.)

 

[Newchodge]

Burn her!

Yes, the oracle has spoken - whoever he is. (Someone has to enlighten me - who the F is Jeremy Vine? I assume he is some species of DJ, which is IMO a life form somewhere between algae and amoeba.)

He is the opinionated journalist who took over from Jimmy Young on the Radio 2 lunch time programme.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Yes, the oracle has spoken - whoever he is. (Someone has to enlighten me - who the F is Jeremy Vine? I assume he is some species of DJ, which is IMO a life form somewhere between algae and amoeba.)

Jeremy Kyle for the middle classes

Can solve global crises with a short para that starts 'it's easy, you just....'

 

[The Byre]

Jimmy Young, Jeremy Kyle, Jeremy Vine - you speak in tongues! I listen to the Today programme on The Home Service and to the World Service, as well as US TV business channels and Indian English TV language services and dip into old economics lectures from the likes of Steve Hanke and Milton Friedman and others.

 

[Bob Morgan]

Radio 2 DJ . . . when that finishes it will be Cruise Liners, followed by Panto in Wolverhampton and then a Nursing Home.

 

[MBE2017]

There appears to be a 'movement' to not pay - without thought to the consequences.

I think this is more initially activists trying to cause trouble with the idea, but many taking the idea on with no real choice. When people become desperate, logic goes out of the window, food, shelter, clothing and warmth are the four basic requirements for living.

ATM people are warm without the heating having to be on, shortly they will have to choose. The idea of just not paying appeals initially, and in truth if enough people did this the GOV would probably offer more help.

 

[The Byre]

Cruise Liners, followed by Panto in Wolverhampton and then a Nursing Home.

And that is the correct answer to tonight's special Star Question - "The first two rows of which three types of audience have 73 legs and smell of urine?"

 

[Newchodge]

I think this is more initially activists trying to cause trouble with the idea, but many taking the idea on with no real choice. When people become desperate, logic goes out of the window, food, shelter, clothing and warmth are the four basic requirements for living.

ATM people are warm without the heating having to be on, shortly they will have to choose. The idea of just not paying appeals initially, and in truth if enough people did this the GOV would probably offer more help.

There still seems to be the idea that people may choose not to pay. I don't think that there will be a choice for many. If that is the case logic would suggest that banding together with others in the same predicament is more likely to bring a solution than each suffering alone.

 

[MBE2017]

There still seems to be the idea that people may choose not to pay. I don't think that there will be a choice for many. If that is the case logic would suggest that banding together with others in the same predicament is more likely to bring a solution than each suffering alone.

I agree, but many will cancel their DD who probably would be able to make cut backs in other areas before resorting to this. We have become a Nation unaccustomed to pain. Just like our Governments, most prefer to kick the can down the road rather than deal with the situation.

Most supported the Ukraine Gov in resisting Russia, most backed the sanctions against Russia, all of these actions would obviously garner a response from Russia. I do not believe Russia is the only cause of the price increase in fuel, but it is partly. People have to realise their is a cost to principles, time will tell if the general public feel it worth paying for in the long run.

I do accept though that there are many who will simply not cope with the cost of fuel doubling within a year. There lies a huge problem, I think only Gov price regulation can help such people.

 

[simon field]

From what I’m seeing, the ‘Don’t Pay’ movement are encouraging people not to pay *anything* at all, which seems rather stupid.

 

[Newchodge]

From what I’m seeing, the ‘Don’t Pay’ movement are encouraging people not to pay *anything* at all, which seems rather stupid.

At the moment they are encouraging a joint cancellation of DD's on a specific date.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Ah yes, my 'Little Man in Fulham' comes to mind! - No job too big, No job too small! Everything from Wokingham Dowagers to PLCs!

This type of nonsense always comes up when you talk about debt collection

Sure, it happens in criminal communities. Ordinary 'honest" (separate discussion around dishonesty of not paying( go straight to the police and prison sentences ensue.

Through work I've known a lot of debt collectors, including the tough end of the spectrum 2 things that define the good ones:

1 they don't stand at the bar shouting about hurting people.
2 they are sufficiently informed about the law to stay on the right side of it or at least not to be caught on the wrong side

 

[MBE2017]

Having collected debts over the years, always legally, the only people to worry about are the quiet ones, who do not sound off.

There are still options out there to do things a different way, but unless people understand the road they are heading down, I wouldn’t recommend it. Once such methods get employed, things can spiral out of control before you know it.

Fortunately £140 will not change anyone’s life, it is more the annoyance factor.

 

[simon field]

At the moment they are encouraging a joint cancellation of DD's on a specific date.

….if they get 1,000,000 pledges.

When it comes down to it, many will lose their bottle.

 

[japancool]

Yes, the oracle has spoken - whoever he is. (Someone has to enlighten me - who the F is Jeremy Vine? I assume he is some species of DJ, which is IMO a life form somewhere between algae and amoeba.)

He's Tim Vine's brother.

 

[japancool]

And that is the correct answer to tonight's special Star Question - "The first two rows of which three types of audience have 73 legs and smell of urine?"

One with you and me in it?

 

[Newchodge]

He's Tim Vine's brother.

Leading to the Q & A

Who is Tim Vine? He's Jeremy Vine's brother.