Consumer debt - help please

[japancool]

Leading to the Q & A

Who is Tim Vine? He's Jeremy Vine's brother.

Mrs. Vine's son?

 

[Mark T Jones]

Leading to the Q & A

Who is Tim Vine? He's Jeremy Vine's brother.

And where did you hear it?

 

[The Resolver]

Definitely use the MCOL route, sow a judgement on that sorry individual’s ass!

Make sure you use the new (3 years new) Online Civil Money Claim procedure (still in Public Beta and despite falling short so far of the detailed recommendations in the Civil Justice Council Report that led to its creation (I was a co-author) - it works better than the ortiginal (20 years old approx ?) MCOL (Money Claim Online) which is very creaky and showing its age.

Also be quick as soon all cases in small claims will be subject to mandatory mediation. From what you say you have no need to compromise on the judgment. As a mediator I usually support mandatory mediation but the small claim process is a poor form of mediation (one hour on the telephone shuttling offers/counter-offers separately between the parties.)

 

[The Resolver]

And where did you hear it?

Marvin or Smokey

 

[UKSBD]

Leading to the Q & A

Who is Tim Vine? He's Jeremy Vine's brother.

Is one of them a cyclist?

 

[Newchodge]

Is one of them a cyclist?

The journalist one is. The other is a comedian.

 

[Michael Loveridge]

LBA sent registered post. My mistake, from a thread on here I now know it should be pre-action protocol.

The pre-action debt protocol is just another Government measure to enable professional debtors to evade their responsibilities. Although professional debt collectors have little choice but to comply with it (albeit through gritted teeth!) I tell my small business clients that they can safely ignore it in small debt cases like this.

There are no real sanctions for doing so, and I just advise them to do what you've done, namely send a polite single page LBA, providing the necessary information (which is often no more than a copy of the invoice) and requiring payment by a specific date. I usually consider 7 days is perfectly adequate - if they're not going to pay why wait 30 days to find out?

Assuming there's no response then just issue the claim through Money Claim Online - http://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome. It's simple to do, and in many cases the Defendant coughs up as soon as the Claim Form arrives through their letterbox.

If they don't respond then you can obtain default judgment after a couple of weeks. If they still don't pay then you will have to enforce payment. Certainly, this can be a problem for such small amounts, but although the County Court bailiffs are pretty useless (or at least they were last time I tried using them, which was some years ago) they're realistically your only option for such a small sum.

Realistically, in purely commercial terms it's rarely worth the time and effort to recover such small amounts. However, for many clients it genuinely is a matter of principle, and he satisfaction they derive from getting a judgment is enough justification.

Ideally, what you and other small traders should do is to send out T's and C's at the outset, before you take on the job, which include a right to levy interest and a charge for recovering payment. But I know that in practice, when many jobs are taken on just on the basis of a personal meeting or a phone call this may not be realistic. The second best alternative, therefore, is to include a prominent notice on the invoice that if not paid within 30 days interest at (say) 3% a month plus collection charges will be levied. Although it's probably not legally enforceable most small debtors won't know that, and it may be sufficient of an incentive to pay up.

 

[Bob Morgan]

The journalist one is. The other is a comedian.

Somewhat misleading, as Jeremy Whine has a need currently for a 'Trick Cyclist!'

 

[Mark T Jones]

The pre-action debt protocol is just another Government measure to enable professional debtors to evade their responsibilities. Although professional debt collectors have little choice but to comply with it (albeit through gritted teeth!) I tell my small business clients that they can safely ignore it in small debt cases like this.

There are no real sanctions for doing so, and I just advise them to do what you've done, namely send a polite single page LBA, providing the necessary information (which is often no more than a copy of the invoice) and requiring payment by a specific date. I usually consider 7 days is perfectly adequate - if they're not going to pay why wait 30 days to find out?

Assuming there's no response then just issue the claim through Money Claim Online - http://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome. It's simple to do, and in many cases the Defendant coughs up as soon as the Claim Form arrives through their letterbox.

If they don't respond then you can obtain default judgment after a couple of weeks. If they still don't pay then you will have to enforce payment. Certainly, this can be a problem for such small amounts, but although the County Court bailiffs are pretty useless (or at least they were last time I tried using them, which was some years ago) they're realistically your only option for such a small sum.

Realistically, in purely commercial terms it's rarely worth the time and effort to recover such small amounts. However, for many clients it genuinely is a matter of principle, and he satisfaction they derive from getting a judgment is enough justification.

Ideally, what you and other small traders should do is to send out T's and C's at the outset, before you take on the job, which include a right to levy interest and a charge for recovering payment. But I know that in practice, when many jobs are taken on just on the basis of a personal meeting or a phone call this may not be realistic. The second best alternative, therefore, is to include a prominent notice on the invoice that if not paid within 30 days interest at (say) 3% a month plus collection charges will be levied. Although it's probably not legally enforceable most small debtors won't know that, and it may be sufficient of an incentive to pay up.

Interestingly, we sent pre action protocol yesterday and she has just part paid.

I do get the 'go for the jugular' approach, vut I think in this case the steady progression has ground her down .

It was a useful brush up on process, with an OK result.

Thanks all for the input

 

[The Resolver]

Assuming there's no response then just issue the claim through Money Claim Online - http://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome. It's simple to do, and in many cases the Defendant coughs up as soon as the Claim Form arrives through their letterbox.

No - that's the 20yr plus old one that just provides e-filing, The new one is in public beta mode but now well established starts a https://www.moneyclaims.service.gov.uk/eligibility/claim-value

Development of the old one stopped years ago . Once the Defence has been filed it reverts to the paper system I was an adviser in setting it up the new one and whilst it is unfinished without so far adopting all of our recommendation for advancing the resolution facilties it is well establihed so far as the number of users is concerned.

 

[The Resolver]

. The second best alternative, therefore, is to include a prominent notice on the invoice that if not paid within 30 days interest at (say) 3% a month plus collection charges will be levied. Although it's probably not legally enforceable most small debtors won't know that, and it may be sufficient of an incentive to pay up.

ye sit is - see https://www.gov.uk/late-commercial-payments-interest-debt-recovery/charging-interest-commercial-debt

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

If you get judgement I would get a Bailiff to recover the debt not the Court Bailiff but a private bailiff who will only get paid if recovery is successful . ie Marstons

 

[Mark T Jones]

If you get judgement I would get a Bailiff to recover the debt not the Court Bailiff but a private bailiff who will only get paid if recovery is successful . ie Marstons

Thanks all. She has paid £100, so that's an end to it.

We take some pleasure in knowing that every penny of that £100 will have been paid with resentment- she just hates paying

 

[MBE2017]

Interestingly, we sent pre action protocol yesterday and she has just part paid.

I do get the 'go for the jugular' approach, vut I think in this case the steady progression has ground her down .

It was a useful brush up on process, with an OK result.

Thanks all for the input

Go for the rest as well. I would thank her for part payment and remind her of the final date before court action for the balance.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Go for the rest as well. I would thank her for part payment and remind her of the final date before court action for the balance.

Yeah

But life is too short I

It was never really about the money

 

[MBE2017]

Yeah

But life is too short I

It was never really about the money

You’re too nice, I would be doing it for the fun.

 

[dylanmarlais]

It's several decades since I collected consumer debt - it seems that 'turn up and take goods to the value of' is frowned on these days

But seriously, the wife is an equine physiotherapist - lots of low-value consumer invoices. She usually just ignores the very occasional non-payer but there is one that she would really like to pursue for just £140.

From old parlance, the customer in question is an 'unsophisticated determined non-payer' (She has a long record of not paying, doesn't appear law savvy, but just ignores creditors til they go away).

To date:

Invoice sent - she responded asking to see wife's qualifications, which she provided.

Polite reminder sent - responded with non-specific 'price not justified' - wife reiterated work done and standard charges, which are completely in line with industry norm.

LBA sent registered post. My mistake, from a thread on here I now know it should be pre-action protocol.

Next step - pre action letter with relevant attachments - having signed for LBA, there is a high chance she won't sign again.

Court papers in 30 days.

In reality we don't expect to collect, but would like to get the judgement - I would value any advice from you lovely legal bods.

Many thanks!

Online claim is easy enough. And there’s lots of guidance on how to enforce judgment.

 

[Michael Loveridge]

ye sit is - (sorry, had to delete link as I got a message saying I’m not allowed to post links)

Unfortunately, no it isn’t. The late payment legislation only allows you to charge interest to a commercial customer, not, as in this case, a private individual.

 

[The Resolver]

Unfortunately, no it isn’t. The late payment legislation only allows you to charge interest to a commercial customer, not, as in this case, a private individual.

Yes, of course and thanks for the correction. Although I'm not sure we have been told whether or not the customer could be running some sort of business- hourse riding lessons? Seems to pay for a lot of physio.