Class II NICs question/Self Employed as Sole Trader

[pawsforthought]

Hi.

I swear blind I did register as self employed and sent the form off to them (well, I have a copy of it that I saved so it definitely went to them) but they've just written to me telling me I can't sign up for NI D/debits as I'm 'not registered as SE'!

The letter goes on to say "if you are working as SE you pay your Class 2 NICs through SA and are unable to pay by D/D" - so which is it, I must be registered and pay by D/D or I shouldn't register my current working status and pay through SA??

If it's the latter, how exactly do I do that ie how do I "pay thru SA" - how do I now how much and do I just need to set the money aside each month ready for the bill at the end of a year??

 

[DWS]

Did you register for self employment or for self assessment?
Big difference as far as Class 2 N/I is involved

 

[Newchodge]

I swear blind I did register as self employed and sent the form off to them

What form?

 

[pawsforthought]

I'm already registered for SA as been working Ltd Co for several years. I registered to pay Class 2 contributions using form CA5601 'Application to pay self employed National Insurance by direct debit', mailed it off. Then I got their letter saying "If you're SE you pay them through SA and are unable to pay by direct debit".

I did try to register as a sole trader using this form ( the whole h t t p s bit removed):
www.tax.service.gov.uk/ print-and-post/ form/ NICs_iForms/1.0/CWF1_20167/cwf1.xdp
but when you get here:
www.gov.uk/l og-in-register-hmrc-online-services/ register
there's nothing about an option to register self employed, just to register for self assessment (which I have been registered for for years).

So I'm a bit baffled at the minute. Obviously would rather pay monthly then have a bill at the end of each tax year, or whatever that would look like.

 

[Newchodge]

I'm already registered for SA as been working Ltd Co for several years. I registered to pay Class 2 contributions using form CA5601 'Application to pay self employed National Insurance by direct debit', mailed it off. Then I got their letter saying "If you're SE you pay them through SA and are unable to pay by direct debit".

I did try to register as a sole trader using this form ( the whole h t t p s bit removed):
www.tax.service.gov.uk/ print-and-post/ form/ NICs_iForms/1.0/CWF1_20167/cwf1.xdp
but when you get here:
www.gov.uk/l og-in-register-hmrc-online-services/ register
there's nothing about an option to register self employed, just to register for self assessment (which I have been registered for for years).

So I'm a bit baffled at the minute. Obviously would rather pay monthly then have a bill at the end of each tax year, or whatever that would look like.

If you are working through a limited company you are not self employed. Does the limited company pay you through payroll?

 

[pawsforthought]

If you are working through a limited company you are not self employed. Does the limited company pay you through payroll?

I used to work through a Limited Company. I don't run that ltd co any more. I am self employed, sole trader.

 

[Newchodge]

I used to work through a Limited Company. I don't run that ltd co any more. I am self employed, sole trader.

In that case all you need to do is register for self assessment and declare your self employed income and expenses via self assessment. I have never heard of separate registration as self employed.

 

[DWS]

I used to work through a Limited Company. I don't run that ltd co any more. I am self employed, sole trader.

Then you need to register as self employed, if you only register for self assessment (Form SA1 I believe) then you will not be registered for Class 2 National Insurance

 

[Newchodge]

Then you need to register as self employed, if you only register for self assessment (Form SA1 I believe) then you will not be registered for Class 2 National Insurance

How, exactly, does someone register as self employed, except by submitting a SA?

 

[DWS]

How, exactly, does someone register as self employed, except by submitting a SA?

By going online and registering as Self-Employed!
My point is that plenty of people have registered for self assessment but not as self employed and are now finding that they have not made any Class 2 contributions since the change of collecting this through tax returns, so basically they are registered for SA but not as SE.

 

[Newchodge]

By going online and registering as Self-Employed!
My point is that plenty of people have registered for self assessment but not as self employed and are now finding that they have not made any Class 2 contributions since the change of collecting this through tax returns, so basically they are registered for SA but not as SE.

Do 7you have a link for registering? How long has this been possible?

 

[DWS]

Do 7you have a link for registering? How long has this been possible?

I register clients for SE through my agent account but a quick Google shows this which gives the option to choose Self Employed, not sure if it’s the correct link as unable to go past ‘Start’

Why do you need to send a Self Assessment tax return? - Check how to register for Self Assessment - GOV.UK

www.gov.uk

Being able to register for Self Assessment but not Self Employed has been around for as long as I can remember

 

[Newchodge]

I register clients for SE through my agent account but a quick Google shows this which gives the option to choose Self Employed, not sure if it’s the correct link as unable to go past ‘Start’

Why do you need to send a Self Assessment tax return? - Check how to register for Self Assessment - GOV.UK

www.gov.uk

Being able to register for Self Assessment but not Self Employed has been around for as long as I can remember

That seems to be registering for SA and Class 2 NI, not for self employment per se.

 

[DWS]

---

That seems to be registering for SA and Class 2 NI, not for self employment per se.

It has a box to say register for SA if
‘You’re self-employed, for example a sole trader’ which is what I am trying to say.
If you only register for SA and not Self Employment then you will not be registered for Class 2 N/I which is why I asked the OP to be sure they registered for SE

 

[Newchodge]

---

It has a box to say register for SA if
‘You’re self-employed, for example a sole trader’ which is what I am trying to say.
If you only register for SA and not Self Employment then you will not be registered for Class 2 N/I which is why I asked the OP to be sure they registered for SE

As a pedant, I think you mean register for SA as self employed.

 

[DWS]

As a pedant, I think you mean register for SA as self employed.

And if not and you are only registered for SA then you will not be registered for Class2 N/I

 

[pawsforthought]

So off the back of all of the above and seeing as I'm already registered for SA (but the HMRC letter says to me that 'we don't have you registered as being SE for NI purposes') meaning therefore that they're not going to calculate the NI amounts). However, I'll just phone the number at the top of that letter on Monday and see what they say. I'll pop back on here to update if there's anything that's unclear after I've spoken to them. Thanks all.

 

[pawsforthought]

This was the link to register as SE as a sole trader by the way (if you're already registered for SA), if it's of use to anyone: h t t p s : / / www . tax . service . gov . uk / print-and-post/form/NICs_iForms/1.0/CWF1_20167/cwf1.xdp. You than have to print the completed letter off and mail it in to them.

 

[Newchodge]

This was the link to register as SE as a sole trader by the way (if you're already registered for SA), if it's of use to anyone: h t t p s : / / www . tax . service . gov . uk / print-and-post/form/NICs_iForms/1.0/CWF1_20167/cwf1.xdp. You than have to print the completed letter off and mail it in to them.

I have tried edting that 'link' to remove spaces. but it doesn't work. Have you made it work?

 

[DWS]

I have tried edting that 'link' to remove spaces. but it doesn't work. Have you made it work?

SAM100130 - Records: set up taxpayer record: notification of new business or self employment - HMRC internal manual - GOV.UK

www.gov.uk