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Just watched some majors of Italian towns, messaging to their public regarding breaking the lockdown.

One Mayor said...

"Why are you getting a mobile hairdresser in? Don't you understand the casket will be closed??"

No-one does anger like an Italian.
 
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I live in a rural seaside area with no infections and no deaths, This weekend the area has been invaded by b****** Londoners filling up the resorts and coming to their second homes. They made no attempt to practice any form of control. All they have done is bring their pestilence to us. Looking forward to a spike and as we are quite an un-populated area we have a reduced hospital exposure.
 
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My Chinese contacts tell me Fedex and DHL are having issues now getting the goods out of the country as air freight has blockages this end - so the deliveries are sitting in the dispatch bays. I've had one Fedex consignment cancelled and rebooked with DHL because Fedex are struggling.
 
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Clodbuster said:
I live in a rural seaside area with no infections and no deaths, This weekend the area has been invaded by b****** Londoners filling up the resorts and coming to their second homes. They made no attempt to practice any form of control. All they have done is bring their pestilence to us. Looking forward to a spike and as we are quite an un-populated area we have a reduced hospital exposure.
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If you are honest with yourself and lived in a large city, and had the opportunity to move out to a lower risk area, what would you do

I live in a small village just outside Great Yarmouth and its happening here, but in all honestly the drain on resources will be very small

Maybe those with second homes will appreciate what they have and move in permanently allowing winter dead towns to thrive again
 
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This is the plot of a B movie disaster story. People are actually behaving like the people in the movies that we'd all shouted at the screen at!

Chris and I discovered we live quite close and our biggest issue with contagion opportunities are the supermarkets which because of silly behaviour again, are pretty over populated and poorly managed. If you walk on the seafront areas you see plenty of people walking dogs and out for the sun. I don't find this a problem, frankly, as they are isolated. They're not getting close to others and there's plenty of space. The eternal Londoners and second homes thing is NEVER going to be resolved because they have more money. Sad but true. They bring in money to parts of the world like ours. Yarmouth and Lowestoft are seaside towns that are deserted in winter and not busy enough in the summer. The locals work seasonally and we rely on visitors. What we don't want are sick or potentially sick people spreading it around, and as the 'visitors' don't know anyone, they tend to stay isolated anyway.

We need perspective and sense to follow rules. I'm actually going to do some work today in Yarmouth, if I can get access to the theatre. No pay, but I can do loads of stuff in an empty theatre on the end of a pier - that's isolation enough, but it's worthwhile!
 
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Chris Ashdown said:
If you are honest with yourself and lived in a large city, and had the opportunity to move out to a lower risk area, what would you do
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Well if they come to Cornwall they should realise that we have the worst funded health district in the country. If they fancy being treated in a corridor........
 
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paulears said:
This is the plot of a B movie disaster story. People are actually behaving like the people in the movies that we'd all shouted at the screen at!

Chris and I discovered we live quite close and our biggest issue with contagion opportunities are the supermarkets which because of silly behaviour again, are pretty over populated and poorly managed. If you walk on the seafront areas you see plenty of people walking dogs and out for the sun. I don't find this a problem, frankly, as they are isolated. They're not getting close to others and there's plenty of space. The eternal Londoners and second homes thing is NEVER going to be resolved because they have more money. Sad but true. They bring in money to parts of the world like ours. Yarmouth and Lowestoft are seaside towns that are deserted in winter and not busy enough in the summer. The locals work seasonally and we rely on visitors. What we don't want are sick or potentially sick people spreading it around, and as the 'visitors' don't know anyone, they tend to stay isolated anyway.

We need perspective and sense to follow rules. I'm actually going to do some work today in Yarmouth, if I can get access to the theatre. No pay, but I can do loads of stuff in an empty theatre on the end of a pier - that's isolation enough, but it's worthwhile!
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I'm not that far from you. They were not isolating at all. The chippies, ice cream parlour etc were closed for sit down but open for take-away, so there were long queues where they were certainly not 2 meters apart.
 
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Newchodge said:
So what. Have you seen the people in the supermakets? And if the government had meant delivery only they should have said delivery only.
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Some potentially good news; I drove past a large supermarket in a small town yesterday and noticed that there were only about 10 cars in the car park.

Popped in to get some groceries, and was treated to a relaxed shopping experience with only a handful of customers keeping a respectful distance from one another.

Those who panic-bought bulk quantities in a frenzy of trolley-rage and loyalty cards have done the rest of us a favour by now staying away.

Almost no wine left though :(
 
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Our last couple of visits to supermarkets have been quite relaxed and managed to get most of what we wanted. It was, according to insiders, hell during the special early Sunday opening "for NHS staff and Tesco colleagues". F**ckwits who seem to think they have a right to crash other peoples parties spoiled it for everyone.
 
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I got told off for trying to buy four aubergines. Three was the limit. I was allowed to buy 6 eggs and 5 bananas though.

The trouble with this vegetarianism lark is we have to buy more vegetables than average. I was tempted to buy some chicken and barter it for my other aubergine in the carpark
 
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An interesting article in the Guardian today which discusses the authenticity of China's claims about zero transmissions. It appears there is evidence supporting a belief that the Chinese state is continuing to be dishonest in its figures (by no means new - they have been exaggerating their economic numbers for decades).

Title: 'Life after lockdown: has China really beaten coronavirus?'

However it may demonstrate that this virus has longer to run than we think. Not least the fact we don't have a vaccine. Or cure. Cases in HK (formerly they had it under control).

I really think we have to let this run for another couple of months at least before we can really asses what is going on.
 
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Just when you thought the world had begun to take a sensible approach to this virus, Donald Trump now wishes to get Americans back to work, practicing social distancing with the elderly to be cared for. He believes that the cure cannot be worse (by far) than the problem.

Potentially putting tens of thousands of lives at risk, going against his experts advice. Beyond belief.
 
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ecommerce84 said:
The Chinese are brutal in some of those videos.
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and that’s why you can walk around any Chinese town or city at any time of night and feel safe.

I can’t even walk to my local co-op some evenings because of gangs of youth hanging around looking for trouble
 
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Donald Trump is quoted as saying it will be over in the USA by 12 April 2020, so great news maybe only a couple of weeks isolation rather than 3 months

Maybe he knows something we don't

All conspiracies posts welcome
 
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Newchodge said:
It seems that the British goverement departments remain as incompetent as ever.
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I think a lot of this comes down to 'paper shufflers' - people employed to move paper from one desk to another. The same thing has been happening for decades. Decisions don't get made, because the decision maker doesn't see the paper until days after it arrives, as it circles around the various internal offices.

The amount of paper work the 'paper shufflers' are now overseeing has grown massively. They're swamped and don't know what to prioritise.
 
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One thing is certain and that is he has done a fantastic job over the last few months, we can only think of what dithering the opposition would have done in the same situation
 
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Chris Ashdown said:
One thing is certain and that is he has done a fantastic job over the last few months, we can only think of what dithering the opposition would have done in the same situation
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I'm not a Tory myself - even less a fan of Mr Johnson - but I have to give them credit for how they've handled this so far. Yes there have been missteps - on missing the EU ventilators deadline, on outdated modelling - but the sheer scale of what this government faces is unprecedented and I've not once doubted their determination to do the right thing for the country. One only needs to look across the pond to see how much more cack-handed and ill-intentioned the political response could be.

I'm also reassured that the government hasn't had enough of experts after all. Of course we all knew that was just a bit of populist, anti-elite rhetoric from Govey, playing to the insecure ego of the "I'm as good as any expert" crowd; but still. Experts should be respected. They aren't infallible. They never claim to be. But it's still right to rely on their opinion over anyone else's. Any disagreement and debate should occur between themselves - which includes people in the health sector/on the front line.

Inevitably, some decisions may prove to be the incorrect ones. With terrible consequences. But the notion that armchair critics are/were better informed to take these decisions is as spurious as the idea that when science lacks an explanation for something, it shows religion what right all along.

So for now at least, I remain broadly supportive of the government and broadly dismissive of a great deal of the partisan noise coming from various quarters of the press and social media.
 
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My mum got taken into hospital again this morning - not virus related oddly. The ambulance driver told his mate to NOT take the A+E turn at the hospital but drive into the ambulance area that has been set up today in a staff car park next to the A+E rear doors. Inside there are two arrows, red and green and non-corona go one way, corona the other. I could not accompany her, I cannot visit and have to phone for a call back update. She's old and scared and will be on her own. There are, oddly - loads of beds available if needed. They're prepared.
 
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paulears said:
My mum got taken into hospital again this morning - not virus related oddly. The ambulance driver told his mate to NOT take the A+E turn at the hospital but drive into the ambulance area that has been set up today in a staff car park next to the A+E rear doors. Inside there are two arrows, red and green and non-corona go one way, corona the other. I could not accompany her, I cannot visit and have to phone for a call back update. She's old and scared and will be on her own. There are, oddly - loads of beds available if needed. They're prepared.
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Hope she, and you, are OK. Take care.
 
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Thanks Cyndy - fingers crossed. Actually the course of action was interesting. She's only been out of hospital 10 days - after we thought we'd lose her. The local county council have a 2-6 week home carer system to monitor and advise and the carer and my wife and I all arrived at the same time when she called us this morning feeling 'a bit breathless'. Carer said phone 111 for advice. I hung on for 15 mins, but when they answered and went through the data protection thing with her the answer to the questions meant they sent an ambulance - which with the virus situation we thought perhaps a bit unnecessary, but they came very quickly. Did some tests and established she needed fast diagnosis by the hospital - not her doctor on the phone. Considering the pressures on the NHS I rather assumed they'd just give a bit of advice and move on. They didn't. They were aproned. gloved and masked when they came in, which is sensible. The system is reported to be near breaking point, but they are carrying on as usual. On the 111 system, corona is button number 1 split off to a separate system for information.
 
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paulears said:
Thanks Cyndy - fingers crossed. Actually the course of action was interesting. She's only been out of hospital 10 days - after we thought we'd lose her. The local county council have a 2-6 week home carer system to monitor and advise and the carer and my wife and I all arrived at the same time when she called us this morning feeling 'a bit breathless'. Carer said phone 111 for advice. I hung on for 15 mins, but when they answered and went through the data protection thing with her the answer to the questions meant they sent an ambulance - which with the virus situation we thought perhaps a bit unnecessary, but they came very quickly. Did some tests and established she needed fast diagnosis by the hospital - not her doctor on the phone. Considering the pressures on the NHS I rather assumed they'd just give a bit of advice and move on. They didn't. They were aproned. gloved and masked when they came in, which is sensible. The system is reported to be near breaking point, but they are carrying on as usual. On the 111 system, corona is button number 1 split off to a separate system for information.
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Impressive at the best of times, which these, clearly. are not.
 
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paulears said:
There are, oddly - loads of beds available if needed. They're prepared.
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C19 infects four times as many every week as the week before - so they need to be prepared!

The time-line for after a total Wuhan-style lockdown is -
  • Day 1 - Lockdown.
  • 14 days after lockdown there is a noticeable effect on registered new cases.
  • 28 days later the death-rates stop rising.
  • 28-42 days after total lockdown death rates remain roughly constant.
  • 42 days onwards death rates fall steadily.
We do not yet know what happens long-term after lockdown is lifted.
 
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TMark said:
playing to the insecure ego of the "I'm as good as any expert" crowd; but still. Experts should be respected.
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Its hard to respect experts who find it hard to take their own advice. I self isolated early because I "knew" Boris was incompetent. He didn't and caught the virus.
 
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It is good to see that much of the initial hysteria on this thread has died down. In particular that of @myofficeinchina, who seemed adamant in his opinion that we should all follow the Chinese example, and was scathing about UK Gov's response. I see that there are various reports now emerging in the Western media that the Chinese State may well have been covering up the scale of the epidemic in their country by more than a country mile.

What has interested me is the number of deaths reported in the West versus the number of reported cases; which seems totally at odds to the number of deaths/cases reported in China. It does seem that the number of deaths (and cases) in China is considerably higher than officially reported. Time will tell of course, but it is right to look at the tragedy in Italy and Spain when considering our response, rather than China because we can trust Western figures in a way we can't the Chinese numbers.

It might also be argued, that despite the early resource shortcomings in the UK (just as in other Western countries), the UK response in turning a peace time economy into a wartime one, in the space of a month, is impressive. The public has consistently voted for a peacetime economy and thus an emphasis on managing peacetime problems. Vast stocks of pandemic related kit for any eventuality doesn't fit this narrative because of the cost not only of the kit but of storage, maintenance and 'shelf life' (ie replacement).

Whatever occurs in the UK over the next few weeks, we can be sure of one thing - that there are enough good folk in the public (and private) sector who will do their damnedest to 'win' . Take the transformation of the ExCel Centre into NHS Nightingale Hospital in less than two weeks, the way the Police Forces have pivoted (I have seen more police on the streets in the last 6 days than I have seen for years), and the vast 'Citizen's Volunteer Army (of which I am one of many hundreds of thousands) and the way, it seems, that our private companies are rising to the challenge of manufacturing ventilators, uniforms, PPE and so on. And of course the way the NHS and its' people have been able to cope/mange this emergency.

And of course the huge financial support the Government has arranged at incredibly short notice.

Pretty impressive.

I take issue with one commentator (@Newchodge) on this thread who is 'less saddened' about some people catching the virus than others. Such childish remarks do nothing for the individual or for the reputation of the forum, and I hope the person thinks carefully about making similar remarks in the future. If I was to say that about his family or loved ones, I think he'd find it offensive.
 
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