Cash in Hand ?

Hi I am a sole trader (Tiler) and have recently completed a large job during which i employed a labourer on a one off basis and paid him cash in hand.

In reality how should have I gone about this and how do i show it in my accounts if at all? I'm a newbie to this and would rather get it right.

Thanks in advance
 

KM-Tiger

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It's a bit of a touchy subject on this forum - see the threads about 'cash in hand' in the General section.

Technically it's illegal to pay people cash in hand, as you are evading tax. If this person was a genuine sub contractor who gives you a valid invoice, that's probably OK, otherwise not. But you have done exactly the right thing in recognising that it's probably not right, and wanting to sort it out.

I'm not an accountant, but if it was my problem I would record the money as my drawing, and thus in effect pay the tax myself, followed by a promise to myself not to do it again. Tempting as it is sometimes, it's a slippery slope not worth getting on to.

The accountants here might offer better advice.
 
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yeah i noticed that one after i posted this thread, i was thinking that tax was going to be paid twice, once by myself and again by my labourer (is self employed too and is not sure what to do). I just want to do things the right way i'll check out the other links that i can now see below in 'similar threads'

i have been working alone for 2 years so this is new territory for me
 
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maxine

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Hiya

Just be wary too that if you pay someone cash the first time around chances are they will expect it again and again.

Also if they are a sub-contractor then you would need to follow CIS rules and make deductions at source and provide statements. It is you that runs the risks of fines as a contractor not the subcontractor. If you think you are going to need to do this in future then get yourself registered with HMRC as a CIS contractor and ask your subbie to give you invoices in future.

Regards
Max
 
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ThomasHardy

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yeah i noticed that one after i posted this thread, i was thinking that tax was going to be paid twice, once by myself and again by my labourer (is self employed too and is not sure what to do). I just want to do things the right way i'll check out the other links that i can now see below in 'similar threads'

i have been working alone for 2 years so this is new territory for me

I am not 100% on this but if he self employed himself can he not just slip you an invoice for the job he did?

I get paid cash in hand sometimes and all I do is give an invoice just like normal it is then up to me/him to sort tax.

I may be talking rubbish about if this is ok for but its worked fine for me.
 
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maxine

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Hiya

I think there is sometimes confusion with what people mean by "Cash in hand".

Cash as a method of payment is perfectly OK provided it goes in the books in the same way as any other method of payment. You should not have to pay tax twice ie; tax from your personal income and then your subcontractor paying tax too.

Cash in hand as a forgotten transaction or a transaction that never happened is not OK as it should be subject to tax. In the trades there is quite a lot of cash-in-hand transactions happening where someone pays somebody else cash for doing work for them and does not put it through payroll or does not raise or receive invoices. It's just slipping people some dosh on the side. Similarly receiving cash payments for work done for customers without raising invoices and declaring them as income is also wrong as it avoids you paying tax on those transactions.

If your labourer is self employed and does work for people other than you then he really ought to give you an invoice for the payment he received. As you are in the construction industry this would be subject to the CIS rules where you would usually deduct 20% from the invoice and pay that directly to HMRC (you can pay online with a debit or credit card). You then complete a monthly CIS return declaring the amount that you have paid your subcontractors and the amounts deducted for CIS and due to be paid to HMRC. You can call the CIS helpline on 0845 366 7899 and they will send you out a pack with all your details and what to do. When you take on a subcontractor you should phone them before and verify them as a subcontractor and you will get a reference number to use on your returns.

I know it all sounds a bit complicated to start off with but it is ok when you get into the swing of it. If it does sound a bit scarey then you could get a book keeper or accountant to help you. What you do not want is to be investigated and run the risk of a fine. Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh and daunting but I can only give what I think is a fair response on a business forum.

If your subcontractor is not working for anyone else other than you then you need to be careful that they are not treated as an employee.

Hope that helps and feel free to ask any more questions as we are all here to help :)

Regards
Max
 
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Wild Goose

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Well, everything that Maxine said, bit with one further lookout.

CIS (Construction Industry Scheme) is the most devilishly tricky of schemes because, like everything carryinf a Blair and Brown stamp, the fines are ridiculously penal if you get it wrong.

The penalty for being late with your monthly return is £100 (so if you haven't registered when you should have, you're likely to be late). You have to send in a return (listing all amounts paid to subcontractors), together with any tax you deducted from your subbies, by the 19th of each month (so by 19th October for September's transactions).

Here's the bad bit: the fines accumulate, so that by the time you are late for a second month, that'll be 2 x £100 in fines. By month 3 you'll clock up £300 in fines, because you are late with three months' returns. A year down the line you'll have clocked up £7,800 in fines (work it out - on month 12 you'll be fined £1,200 because you're late with 12 months' returns by then).

There's no gaps in this. You still receive a fine even for a late "nil" return. So if you pay a subbie, rather like captainlockheed has, one month and then nothing afterwards you'd still receive the full fines as described above; that's £7,800 after a year. By the way, there's no ceiling - month 13 that you're late is a £1,300 fine etc etc. No wonder people emigrate.

To add insult to injury, there's a fine for registering late - small potatoes in the greater sphere of things - and you'll have interest lobbed on the fine as well as on any subbies' tax you haven't handed over.

If you think builders have a raw deal over this, read my next post and I'll give you the other half of the picture.
 
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Wild Goose

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Here's the other side of the coin for anyone who should have registered for CIS and seeks professional help. I don't mean ring the alleged helplines that HMRC operate, or their pop-in inquiry centres - that's waving the white flag and throwing yourself at the Revenue's mercy. Don't expect any!

Time was when you could confide in your accountant, bank manager, financial adviser, solicitor etc and ask them what's to be done. In an effort to cut off such help, New Labour introduced the Money Laundering Regulations, legislation which makes it mandatory for any "regulated" person - that's everyone I just mentioned and more (tax advisors, bookkeepers, payrolllers are all included)... where was I? Oh yes, it's mandatory for any regulated person to report you to an organisation called SOCA (the Serious Organised Crime Agency) who in turn arrange a tax investigation. Anyone who doesn't report their clients' misdemeanhours, no matter how trivial, gets a large fine, a criminal record (so bye bye practising certificate) and ... wait for it... up to two years in prison.

In their wisdom, New Labour have included tax evasion within the scope of the Money Laundering Regulations. That can be anything from VAT fraud involving large sums to claiming false lunch expenses for a 99p burger - crazily, there's no de minimis limit. Remember, if your accountant (or similar advisor) doesn't report you, he faces criminal prosecution and even prison.

It's gets even worse than that, because if when your accountant or similar (remember this applies equally well to everyone from bank managers to bookkeepers) ... where was I? Oh yes, when they report you to SOCA, they are not allowed to tell you. Telling you would be an entirely separate criminal offence (called "tipping off"). Same penalties as before - fines, crim record, 2 years' porridge max). Suppose you challenge your accountant / other regulated person by asking them directly whether they have reported you? They must answer no, even if that is an outright lie. Anything else would be a crim offence!

Ok back to captainlockheed and the original facts of the case: you've paid a subbie, you're racking up an exponential fine that'll run into thousands, so what do you do?

If you go to talk with anyone about it, that is an accountant (or other regulated person as already outlined) then they will have no option except to secretly report you to SOCA. By the way, accountants don't just report their clients, they have to report prospects who they meet formally as well.

The alternative for captainlockheed would be to forget about this - which means he won't get to claim tax relief against the cash he paid to Subbie. Now if I were to tell you to do that then - yup, you guessed it, I'd be committing a criminal offence and sticking my neck on the proverbial block risking fines, loss of livelihood, porridge etc. So I'm not telling you to do any such thing; not even remotely suggestin' it. No sir; not me; no how.

So those are your two choices. If you go the honest route then do it sooner rather than later - if you're putting your hands up and admitting to the Revenue you owe them for the fines etc your accountant has some leeway not to report you straight away. Doing it sooner rather than later means minimising your fines - no use in delaying if by the time you are 6 months late you are clockin' up £600 in monthly fines!

Should you elect to go the forget it route (which for reasons already outlined I, along with every other accountant who doesn't like porridge, am bound to advise you not to do), then you risk being discovered if (a) you ever mention it to a regulated person - we've fully covered that one above; or (b) when your subbie puts in his end of year returns - if he declares the income or tries claiming any tax that should have been stopped by you, then you'll be sunk. Same goes if your subbie's accountant catches sight of any paperwork you might have issued.

I've seen people who operate through a limited company shut down their company, and start afresh with a new one off-the-shelf, to avoid this expensive catch 22. If you're self-employed or in a (business) partnership, no such escape route, so you'll need to make a value call.
 
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Wild Goose

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Does CIS apply to you? Unless you are a trade working exclusively for private householders, then probably so.

The most common watchout even then is when trades sub-contract to each other. So if you're a builder and all your work is for domestic households, and as part of say building an extension you call in a sparkie, you'll fall within CIS.

Same can apply where there's two of you doing domestic work - Bill and Ben the general builders, each self employed (if they were trading as a partnership then that would be different): Bill invoices Mrs Customer for the job; Ben invoices Bill for his share. The transaction between Bill and Ben would fall within CIS. Bill didn't know and hasn't registered - Ouch! That's hundreds and maybe even thousands of pounds fine for that nice Mr Brown to deposit in an Icelandic bank, until such time as he wishes to spend it on weaponry to maim Iraqi women and children. Oops, I'm going off-topic.

The above has even happened in father and son cases.

Of course I'm bound to say get a good accountant, who'll steer you away from such choppy waters. Whoever coined the expression "self-assessment" was having a laugh - it's like invitin' people to remove their own appendix!

But the get a good accountant advice comes with the warning sounded in the previous post that they, the good accountant, are bound to secretly report you to SOCA even if you don't become a client. In that light, maybe asking anonymously on forums such as these are the best starting point. Bear in mind the advice, from accountants who don't like porridge, will always be along the lines of own up and pay the fine.
 
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Wow this is even more complex than i thought !!

I was talking to my brother in law this afternoon and he reccomended that i should go for the CIS scheme class 4 or something like that he said, but he didn't mention the fines :eek:

I'll ask for an invoice from my guy hopefully this will go away and i'll look into the CIS scheme and call the 0845 number tomorrow and thank you for the heads up wild goose
 
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maxine

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Hiya Captain

When you talk with your guy you will need his name, business name, address, date of birth and national insurance number to be able to phone up and go through the verification process and get the verification number to put on your returns.

Don't be surprised if your guy now wants to take home the amount that you have paid him cash so the invoice will probably need to be for 20% more than you have paid him and then you will need to pay the 20% to HMRC. Otherwise you will need to get him to pay you back 20% of the amount you have paid him so you can pay that to HMRC.

I am assuming the money you paid to him did not include materials but if materials were included then you don't take 20% off those. The amount liable to deductions are basically his invoice less materials. You also need to provide him with a CIS statement and if you like I can email you a spreadsheet template for you to use if you pm me with your email address.

Regards
Max
 
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Wild Goose

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Well first thing to do is to get the invoice. And you look like you're going to fall within the CIS scheme by hiring a subbie, even if the job was for a private householder. Just as well get the registration over with - leave it six months and you'll have racked up a few thousand in fines if you are caught.

Depending upon whether your subbie is himself registered under CIS - similar to having one of the old scheme's 715 cards - you should have stopped him tax at 20% or 30%. Can you recover that from your subbie? You won't know whether to stop 20% or 30% until you're registered yourself, whereupon you phone a helpline to give your subbie's NI number, and you'll be told stop 20% or 30% tax. That's the tax you'll be sending to the Revenue by the 19th of the month, with your return. The subbie gets it as a tax credit to set against his eventual tax bill for this tax year (that's the year ended 5th April 2009).

If you cannot recover the tax element from the subbie then you'll end up having to pay it yourself. Chances are your subbie won't be on the CIS register - he'll soon tell you if he is - so you'll need to aim at 30% tax. Ask him nicely for the 30% tax back, so that you can pay it to the tax office on his behalf. If he's smaller than you, tip him upside down and shake his wallet out.

If you cannot quite remember the exact date you paid the cash to your subbie, September or October, then October would be in your favour because it would give you until 19th November to register and file a return. You'll be asked when you paid him - note that when he did the work is irrelevant and has no bearing - it's when you pay him that counts. (So he might have done the work in August or September but get paid in October). I've seen canny contractors avoid the possibility of late registration fines - that is where you are registering for CIS after having paid someone - by saying they are waiting to pay their subbie (they reason - quietly and to themselves - that any cash that has been given to the subbie was a personal loan between workmates, to be squared up on the first payday, as soon as the CIS registration is through).

Note: I'm not suggesting you do that - no way, no sir, not me. Just making the observation.

Final point - the class 4 your brother in law is talking of relates to being self employed (you pay class 1 national insurance if you're an employee. If you're self-employed you pay class 2 and class 4 national insurance on your profits. They're just an extra form of tax. That's why we have one of the lowest tax rates in Europe - because we have additional taxes called national insurance. Tony Blair spin!). Now if you've started self-employed, you have 3 months to register (I'm fairly certain it's 3 months from the end of the month you first became self-employed, so if you started 1st July you have until 31st October. Late registration for self-employment: yes, yes... another fine!

I'd talk to your subbie first and recover 30% from him. Receipt wouldn't go amiss, although once you have his tax you actually issue a receipt to him. Then you're ready for registration. Is there no way you could talk to your brother-in-law's accountant? Notwithstanding the warnings that I gave earlier about accountants and bank managers etc being legally obliged to report you for any tax evasion, you might be better off with him rather than going to the Revenue like a lamb to slaughter. Especially on a Monday - oh, those Revenue people are extra-mean on Mondays.

Good luck Captain, and get back to the thread if you're stuck. It's a lot to take in, because it's no good just giving you snippets. I think you'd be better off with an accountant on your team - there's always the guys in these and other threads who seem to cover London, Wales, Wiltshire, Manchester and some other places I haven't heard of. I'd offer to help, but this Goose is about to fly South.

EDIT: simultaneous posting - MAXINE we overlapped some advice - apologies; I think we're in accord :)
 
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maxine

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If you cannot quite remember the exact date you paid the cash to your subbie, September or October, then October would be in your favour because it would give you until 19th November to register and file a return. You'll be asked when you paid him - note that when he did the work is irrelevant and has no bearing - it's when you pay him that counts. (So he might have done the work in August or September but get paid in October). I've seen canny contractors avoid the possibility of late registration fines - that is where you are registering for CIS after having paid someone - by saying they are waiting to pay their subbie (they reason any cash that has been given to the subbie was a personal loan between workmates, to be squared up on the first payday, as soon as the CIS registration is through.

Yes, good idea and I will say it as I am not an accountant so can say what I like :) Also you haven't received his invoice yet so you wouldn't usually pay before receiving an invoice so call it a temporary loan / advance.

EDIT: simultaneous posting - MAXINE we overlapped some advice - apologies; I think we're in accord :)

NW :) Wish someone had given me this advice when I first started - would have saved me about £300 in flipping fines!
 
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Wild Goose

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Hi Captain,

Thanks for the feedback. Glad you're getting there. CIS is a bit of a minefield - no wonder people emigrate!

Taking the hit over the 20% or 30% isn't so bad as it sounds, as you'll now be able to claim whatever you've paid your mate as a taxable expense against your profits. Should even out - in fact you should gain slightly overall.

2 things:

Ask your subbie whether he's CIS registered. If he is, you should only need to wear 20% tax not 30%.

Second, after you've registered for CIS you have to submit a return by 19th of each month even if it's a nil return. Yup, Gordon Brown fines you £100 even for a nil return that's late. We've had people come to us who haven't put in their nil returns in for 3 months, and have racked up £600 in fines (£100 for the first month, £200 for the second, £300 the third).

I file online for our clients, as that way you know it'll get there. Strangely, there's no fine (that I know of) for being late paying - just a small amount of interest - it's the return itself that carries a fine even if it's one day late and arrives on 20th of the month. If you use the post, watch out for the large envelopes - the receiving office in Liverpool tell me a lot carry under-postage and so arrive late or not at all. The Revenue are no mugs - if they're going to trot down to their local sorting office to pay excess postage they'll wait until 20th of the month and rake in the extra fines.
 
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