Can't afford holiday pay

[Steve B69]

I run a taxi business which just about covers it's operating costs, pays me no income (& I wish I'd never bought it)

The company employs 6 staff, one of which is full time working 45 hrs per work, the rest are all part time. The business is open 24/7 & thus incurrs a massive amount of holiday pay which I have worked out to be around £5,000 per year.

Coming up the end of the year we have several staff who haven't taken their holiday pay as yet so this is going to be a big burden on the business to get this paid.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to get holiday pay down as this is likely to end my business otherwise. :-(

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

Have the several staff actually requested the leave? Subject possibly to your employment contracts, if they don't claim the leave they can lose their right to it
.

You can require twice as much for them to take leave as the periods being requested: 2 days notice for a day's leave, etc. You may have grounds to refuse some leave if this hasn't been requested so far.



Karl Limpert

 

[Richie N]

There is no way of getting out of holiday pay. Your staff have accrued it and it's owed to them.
I would put money away each month for this cost.

 

[wevet]

perhaps you should address the basic problem:

If the business is not making money sell it, close it or give it away.

 

[Steve B69]

Hi Karl

Like Richie says as far as I am aware I am legally obliged to pay them their owed holiday pay.
It's just my business is in danger of going under because of them.

I was wondering if their is any small business aid I could apply for or something, clutching at straws I guess.

 

[Bill1954]

Get rid of the overnight desk clerk and use a divert to the drivers mobile, at least Mon to Fri. Very few calls come in overnight so you're paying someone to sleep. You don't say how many drivers you have but if you can't cover costs you need to increase their rent. Do you drive yourself ?

 

[kulture]

I would listen to Karl as he knows what he is saying.

Holiday Pay is not a right. PAID HOLIDAY is the right. There is a difference. If people have not taken their holiday in the year then there is no obligation to carry it forward.

Look at the business carefully. Do the drivers need to be employed, or are they actually self employed. If the latter, then there is no holiday due anyway.

 

[Steve B69]

Nah we're quite busy overnight, especially Fri & Sat, plus u can't do credit cards on diverrt.
No I don't drive & won't. Can't increase rent, its inline withother firms around our area.

 

[Steve B69]

Its not the drivers who get the holiday pay, they are all self employed. It's the operators. Whilst I may not have to transfer their pay over into the next year, all staff are aware of their holiday entitlement.

 

[Mpg]

Hi Karl

Like Richie says as far as I am aware I am legally obliged to pay them their owed holiday pay.
It's just my business is in danger of going under because of them.

I was wondering if their is any small business aid I could apply for or something, clutching at straws I guess.

I think you'll find that if you have NOT budgeted for paid holiday then its not them that has put your business in danger.

 

[swiftpete]

Why don't you tell the staff that the business isn't making enough to pay them holiday pay and it will close the business down if you have to pay them, which will mean all of their jobs gone?
After that though to be honest I'd get rid of the business asap. There's no point being a busy fool, which is all you are if you work and receive no reward for it.
Good luck.

 

[Richie N]

I would listen to Karl as he knows what he is saying.

Holiday Pay is not a right. PAID HOLIDAY is the right. There is a difference. If people have not taken their holiday in the year then there is no obligation to carry it forward.

Look at the business carefully. Do the drivers need to be employed, or are they actually self employed. If the latter, then there is no holiday due anyway.

Holiday pay is a right. Obviously they have to request it within the holiday year / period, however what you don't want is all staff wanting their holiday pay at once.
Should really encourage staff to take holidays to avoid this happening and affecting your cash flow.
I am sure at Christmas the sales will be up and encourage staff to take time off between Christmas and New Year.

 

[neil.williams]

Hi,

I realise your in a tight position at the moment but instead of looking for quick fixes like small business aid, why not try and increase proffits "i know this is easyer said than done".

Offer deals put more business cards about, have someone/yourself standing outside supermarkets with your ad board in your quiet times. Look at where your customers are and where your competitors are beating you and take the fight to them.

Are your controllers value for money? are you maximising the usage? Is there something they can be doing when not answering that adds value to the company?

why won't you drive?? surely 2 to 3 months a year of you driving would solve the £5,000 deficit you have. Obviously i dont know your reasons why you can't/won't drive, this is just a idea not a digg.

Hope this helps,
Neil

 

[patientlady]

Not sure if I have missed it on the thread but can you not just make them take there holiday?

 

[Ben8472]

You should speak to your local NHS trust and find out who they use for taxi services. You might be able to offer them a better deal. They are supposed to be trying to save money after all.

My father unfortunately has heart and kidney failure and is at the local hosptial three times a week.

He has seen staff on a regular basis call the local taxi firm to book transport for both medication and patients around Devon and Cornwall when their own hospital transport teams are overstretched which appears to be every day.

All of this business is going to a single local taxi firm (several hundred pounds per trip in some cases, he was told)

Worth a call surely? I am not sure how the selection process works...

As the other ops have said, I think your only option is to increase business.

Ben

 

[neil.williams]

You should speak to your local NHS trust and find out who they use for taxi services. You might be able to offer them a better deal. They are supposed to be trying to save money after all.

My father unfortunately has heart and kidney failure and is at the local hosptial three times a week.

He has seen staff on a regular basis call the local taxi firm to book transport for both medication and patients around Devon and Cornwall when their own hospital transport teams are overstretched which appears to be every day.

All of this business is going to a single local taxi firm (several hundred pounds per trip in some cases, he was told)

Worth a call surely? I am not sure how the selection process works...

As the other ops have said, I think your only option is to increase business.

Ben

on the same note maybe look at train stations, i know all the staff are ferried about by private hire companies.

 

[RedEvo]

Staff are provided with holiday pay so they get paid when they eh.......take holidays. You don't pay holiday pay ON TOP of their salary.

Staff get a wage every week, they take a week off on holiday they get paid, they do a weeks work they get paid. If they don't take their holidays they ARE NOT entitled to EXTRA pay (unless you've got the worst employment contracts in history).

d

 

[Ben8472]

Staff are provided with holiday pay so they get paid when they eh.......take holidays. You don't pay holiday pay ON TOP of their salary.

Staff get a wage every week, they take a week off on holiday they get paid, they do a weeks work they get paid. If they don't take their holidays they ARE NOT entitled to EXTRA pay (unless you've got the worst employment contracts in history).

d

I don't think the op is talking about paying them for the holiday? Unless I am mistaken.

I think he is referring to the cost of paying someone else to cover them if they do decide to take their holiday before the expiry date?

??

Ben

 

[RedEvo]

I don't think the op is talking about paying them for the holiday? Unless I am mistaken.

I think he is referring to the cost of paying someone else to cover them if they do decide to take their holiday before the expiry date?

??

Ben

In that case ignore me

d

 

[captaincloser]

Not sure if I have missed it on the thread but can you not just make them take there holiday?

Patientlady....Have you ever tried to 'make' a cab driver do anything ? Like turn left when you ask them or slow down on a bend ? It's never easy

 

[90DC]

Just to clarify one or two things 'captaincloser' it's not the drivers who are due holiday leave/pay, the drivers are self employed, it is the people answering the phones who are directly employed by the OP.

With regards to holidays, is there no chance you could cover for holidays yourself or get a family member to help you out (Possibly somebody out of, but seeking employment)?

When everybody has taken their holiday entitlement, start afresh by making the business more efficient; assign your employees extra tasks to gain more business, (I don't know what kind of things you'd tell them to do, it's all dependant upon their skills, your market and where you could take more work from), possibly offer discounts, stamp books, whatever you feel will work.

What are the main issues people in your area have with taxi companies? Is it price? How quick a taxi arrives/availability? Drivers appearance/mannerism? Quality of taxis? What is it? Can you improve upon this? If you can, do so and shout about it. Put it on your flyers, business cards, office window etc.

 

[avalanche]

it is a simple case of not charging enough
it does not matter what other firms in the area are charging, they probably have not done their costings either, price yourself in line with them and you will find yourself inline with them at the bankruptcy court

people generally have a fear of being more expensive than anyone else but have you ever noticed that the successful businesses generally are more expensive ?

your first step is to work out your true costs, cut back where you can on your expenses then raise your rates accordingly

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

Like Richie says as far as I am aware I am legally obliged to pay them their owed holiday pay.
It's just my business is in danger of going under because of them.

All workers are entitled to 28 days of paid leave: they apply to take paid leave, and they are paid while off work.

The entitlement to taking paid leave can be conditional on terms of the employment contract, notwithstanding the right to it during a leave year.

However, workers are not normally entitled to holiday pay as some sort of compensation for not taking leave.


If all six staff have kept their full leave allowance, there would be a good argument to decline paid leave requests if these all come in between now & the end of the year.

I have to admit though, I suspect that the leave year doesn't run from 1 Jan - 31 Dec, or anything similar!

Steve, do all of your staff have employment contracts (or at least the statements of particulars you are legally obliged to issue within two months of employment) that refer to the leave year? If not, the leave year will probably actually vary for each employee, based on when they started their employment.


Karl Limpert

 

[playboy_bunnie]

...price yourself in line with them and you will find yourself inline with them at the bankruptcy court...

A very good quote indeed.

I think Employment Clinic's question's are vital to what results in the action you take.

My partner was made redundant and had holidays left in th uear, was refused to take leave whilst employed and so on... he got back his holidays at Tribunal.
As an employer I'm sure you don't want to be going down that route!

You definitely need to sort it out asap, especially with Christmas around the corner.

 

[anna_idsltd]

Holiday pay is a legal requirement.

Firstly, you should have budgeted for this and shown a reserve in your monthly accounts. The reserve is offset against Corporation Tax as it reduces your profit and shows as a liability. The reserved amount should be put aside in your bank and be there if the worker asks for a holiday with pay.

Usually, the worker should ask for a holiday by giving notice of twice the length of time of the time they want off. i.e. one week' holiday, two weeks notice. You have the right to refuse the dates requested if it's inconvenient or unreasonable but should offer another time for them to take the holiday.

Secondly, you should have a cut off date for holidays e.g. start of holiday year being 1st January or to coincide with your company accounts year.

If the worker doesn't request holidays within that year, they forfeit them. Our company usually allows one month after the holiday year end for the workers to request and take them but after that, they lose their days - and money. There is no legal obligation to pay your worker holiday pay in lieu and I even believe it is illegal to do so.

If your worker/s don't take the holidays they are entitled to, the figure you reserved should be adjusted accordingly. You should still set an amount aside and keep the money for any workers who left during that holiday year. This should be reserved for a year after their leaving date in case they request it after they left. However, you should have already paid them this money with their final pay.

A workaround for this situation could be that you take on workers who have their own limited company and work as freelance in effect. You don't have obligation to pay them holiday pay then but they do have the option to work for other taxi companies if they choose.

 

[internetspaceships]

As has been said recently paid holiday is the right. There is a subtle difference between this and holiday pay.

We manage our staffs' holiday entitlement of 28 days per year including Bank Holidays so that we don't end up in a hole with no cover.

That's what a sensible business should do. We have some staff who don't take all their entitlement. That's their choice and it's certainly not forced upon them.

Everyone has to take 4 days plus bank holidays over the Christmas period and we run a system where people need to apply for any holidays 6 weeks in advance.

This doesn't include the odd day here and their because we appreciate the need to be flexible. It's designed to cover week long and above breaks.

I appreciate that I've written a long post here but you might want to look at this kind of system OP as it should prevent the kind of situation you find yourself in.

I hope that's helpful

Jon

 

[anna_idsltd]

I don't think the op is talking about paying them for the holiday? Unless I am mistaken.

I think he is referring to the cost of paying someone else to cover them if they do decide to take their holiday before the expiry date?

??

Ben

I understood the OP to be that the taxi firm owner couldn't afford to pay the holiday pay - not struggling to get cover.

Read the title of the thread - 'Can't afford holiday pay'!