Can RBS win back your trust?

Hello,

RBS has been hit by two major mis-selling scandals involving small businesses. It has paid back money to more customers through the FCA's interest rate swap scheme and recently admitted it misled customers who took out Enterprise Finance Guarantee loans.

BusinessZone spoke to Alison Rose, who's head of the bank's small business offering, about the reforms it's putting in place to address these issues and rebuild trust, and why she's "really angry" about the EFG issues.

What do you think? Has RBS done enough to address the concerns of small businesses?

Thanks,

Chris
 

fisicx

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Yes.

Can't say more but I have insider knowledge that that many thousands of small businesses would really struggle if they didn't have the product range RBS offers.

RBS is no different to any other bank. They were all guilty of wrongdiong, some stil lare.

Remember as well that RBS has paid back every penny the BOE gave them. The only reason HMG is holding onto the shares is because they make a large wodge out of them.
 
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Bricklayer

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No RBS are liars who committed fraud when using an EFG to my company

Check out Google Clive May EFG and see all the articles come up

I know of many many victims of RBS GRG abuse who have gone out and committed wholesale destruction of SME's in a psychopathic manner hell bent on revenge for their failure in 08

Why would RBS admit to mis selling over 40% of EFG's ? with over 50% in default down to RBS They used the EFG to covert existing overdrafts without lending any new money but obtained the govt guarantee
 
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fisicx

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So are you prepared to pay for banking? Because that's what will happen if they get separated. All the ATMs and card payments and online banking are all paid for in part from the profits the investment banks make.
 
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fisicx

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You might want to pay but there a millions who won't. And it's not just paying for retail banking, Investments pay your mortgage, loans, credit cards, overdrafts.
 
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Talay

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Having worked for RBS and other investment banks, I can say that they are no worse than others overall, though their 1990s reputation was as rather amateur, something which had changed by the 2000s.

However, bashing banks and especially investment banks without any comprehension of what they do (which includes being daft enough to buy products you don't understand - the misselling of which is not the same issue and is rightly admonished) is counterproductive.

Small business lending is vital but do always remember that as a shareholder, the bank has a primary duty of care to me, to protect my investment in the company and not to lend to overly risky small businesses which are only viable in the eyes of their owners.
 
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fisicx

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How much did the last crash cost us all?
Not very much in reality. There is about £6billion circulating every day in nthe UK. Propping up the banks didn't make much of a dent at all in the grand scheme of things when you consider the size of the national debt.

If RBS had been allowed to fall most of the high street would have crashed within a few hours. That's how important RBS (and other banks) are to the UK economy.

It has nothing to do with trust or forgiveness, it's all about economics.
 
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Banksbroo

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Fisicx, if it's all about economics the economic models of all the main bank were fataly flawed. Banks gambled on the "too big to fail" strategy, and their directors and shareholders were rewarded by public bail-out.
If a system is broke and damaging to an entire country, propping it up with public money, and rewarding the guilty culprits is not a good way to go. Living in an artificial economy is not a sustainable way forward.
 
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fisicx

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I agree with you 100%. A lot of people across the whole banking sectror should be in jail or sweeping the streets. But prosections won't happen in the same way the big 4 accountancy firms get of with thier fraud and the way the big contractors keep getting government contracts despite appaling failings in delivery.

You can rant all day long and write angry blogs or even demonstate at Westminster, all that happens is you get high blood pressure. I don't like the way things are done but most of the population doesn't give a toss - which is why nothing ever changes.

Even if UKIP formed the next government, very little would change. The inertia to do so is so massive it would take years to acheive anything. As Greece has recently discovered.
 
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We ordered a piece of equipment from a Manchester company for £38,000. I gave them £8,000 deposit and after three months, the equipment was ready. I asked the local RBS to transfer £30k to the Manchester company. They told me that this would take up to two weeks. I told them that if they wanted my continued custom, they would do it in one day.

This, said the local manager, would cost £20. Bollocks, said I. This is to another RBS account, so you'll do it for nothing! If I can transfer money across Europe from one Euro-account in one country, to another in another country, either for 50 Cents or for nothing and it takes seconds, you can transfer the money from one RBS account to another RBS account for nothing.

In the end, he agreed.

Two weeks later, our bookkeeper found that the sum withdrawn from our account was £20 more than the sum sent to the Manchester company. They had deliberately hidden the £20 charge in the transfer!

I stormed off to the bank and told the manger that he had a choice. Put the £20 back, or we go to the police and report a deliberate fraud.

He pulled a long face but had to put the money back. We closed the account soon afterwards anyway and went to Santander.

And I am supposed to trust them?
 
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fisicx

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Delete the name RBS from that post and insert any other bank - they are all the same. In any case it was the local branch being stupid not the whole bank. I have had exactly the same stupid attitude from Halifax, Santander, Nationwide and NatWest. Even the ethical Co-op tried to rip us off.
 
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Banksbroo

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Trust and banks? I fear that horse has long since bolted. For business services I don't think there is much to pick and choose between any of the main UK high street banks.

I wonder if it's a matter of time before a new business model from a brand new bank appears?

Paypal is heading in that direction, but its tax dealings, and treatment of customers doesn't make it too different from the traditional banks.
 
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Delete the name RBS from that post and insert any other bank - they are all the same. In any case it was the local branch being stupid not the whole bank. I have had exactly the same stupid attitude from Halifax, Santander, Nationwide and NatWest. Even the ethical Co-op tried to rip us off.

I find that amazing!

If I had walked into our local branch and trousered one of those Perspex display stands that they use for leaflets, worth about £20, the girl behind the counter would have (rightly) had me for stealing. If I walk into a shop and try to leg it with a £20 bottle of wine stuffed into my pants, I would be done for shoplifting.

OK, it's only £20, but that is not the issue. The issue is that a bank manager of a small rural branch thought it was perfectly correct to take £20 from our business account, when they had no legal right to do so and had explicitly and clearly agreed that no fee was payable. Not only did this man steal from our account, but he even went to the lengths of trying (unsuccessfully) to hide this theft, by mismatching the amounts between payee and payer.

No doubt, he thought "They'll never notice it!" and possibly justified it to himself, because we had large sums flying all over the place. "I mean, they're quibbling over twenty quid, when they are spending thousands and thousands on all sorts of fancy, high-tech equipment!"

It's the bald-faced dishonesty that seems to go right down to the level of a lowly branch manager that I find astonishing. It meant (for us) that we could not rely on our bank statements being a real and honest report of movements of money. From then on, our bookkeeping had to check each and every bank entry against our accounts - and quite honestly, they have better things to do!

It was the fundamental level of dishonesty that took my breath away!

So the bank tries to sell you insurance that you don't need. That's OK - I can tell them to F-off! If they try to lend me money, when I don't need any more money, I can politely say 'B'gger off!' Even when they pester me with calls about savings and investment schemes that no sane person would touch with a barge pole, I can tell them that I would rather be gang-raped by a troupe of orangutans.

Businesses can offer stuff that is good, bad or indifferent. I have no problem with that. If people are daft enough to get into debt that they cannot repay and the bank forecloses on the house or does something else nasty, well, that comes with the territory. If they offer you credit, but only if you buy one of their bogus insurance schemes, well, you perfectly free to tell them to stuff their credit where the sun don't shine.

But to just take money out of our account because they feel that it ought to be due to them, even though they agreed previously that it was not (and then try to hide it!) is in a completely different ball park!
 
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Bricklayer

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Using a government backed guarantee scheme to convert overdrafts into EFG's making out new money is being put into the economy whilst all the while they were securitising their position now that's a different ball park.

In my case they did it fraudulently, consider R v Gosh as the test for dishonesty does a RBS SRM accepting an assets & liability statement via email who then rings me to say delete the email containing the A/L and resend a new one minus an asset I'd detailed sound honest? This was to enable RBS to go on to say to the BIS that no security was available which enabled them to get 75% of my overdraft guaranteed by converting it to an EFG

When challenged about why they asked me to remove the asset they said the asset that they asked me to remove was in my wife's name due to one of her relatives dying? no one died they made it up to cover their fraud

Win back trust you've got to be joking. As Lawrence Tomlinson reported in business zone I've spearheaded a campaign over the mis selling of the EFG's and have successfully forced RBS to admit to mis selling the scheme to 1,900 SME's at least

They converted most of my od into an EFG then took the rest of me which forced me to use factoring which was like a cancer to my cashflow and led to my ultimate demise.

I ain't sitting back taking it RBS committed fraud & I will make them pay
 
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fisicx

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I'm sure you and many others were victims of EFG but does that make that whole bank bad? HSBC have been caught out helping tax evaders. Barclays were caught fiddling Libor. Every single bank has done things wrong but that doesn't make the whole system corrupt in the same way one of your employees caught steeling form a client makes your whole business bad.

I'm sorry for what happened to you but corruption and bad practice has been going on for hundreds of years. It's not just RBS.
 
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Bricklayer

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Thanks,

Can RBS win back your trust?

GRG
West Register
SWAPS
Forex
Libor

10's of 1,000's of SME's destroyed

What's corrupt about the banks is that they think they can get away with it? Murder has been going on for 1,000's yrs but look what happens when they get caught?

How many bankers have been jailed?

When banks or regulated firms are bound by the high standard principles number one being integrity RBS don't get past the first one!!
 
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Nuno

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Iceland has a good take on Bankers: 'jail them, don't bail them'.
However important they are, and however important they think they are, a couple of dozen Bankers (securitised?) in The Scrubs for 15 years, and with asset forfeiture, would encourage better behavior from the rest.
And for starters take away the 'Royal' bit of RBS. 'BS' has a truer ring to it somehow.
 
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