Can Labour make Britain the best place in the world to start and grow a business?

[Dan Hobson]

The Labour party has announced a review to ensure Britain is the best place in the world to start and grow a business. The review aims to make sure start-ups in the UK can “reach their full potential in one of the most innovative countries in the world”.

The review will look at issues such as access to patient capital; the incentives for growing businesses in the UK; the role of universities; and how to boost diversity among British founders and entrepreneurs.

• Can Labour make Britain the best place in the world for business?
• Is Britain already best for business? If not, which countries are better?
• What can the Government and Labour opposition do to ensure Britain is the best place in the world to start and grow a business?

Let us know your thoughts!

 

[MBE2017]

Should this not be in the joke thread?

 

[sarky]

It's a no from me.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Fine rhetoric, bereft of context or substance.

In terms of bureaucracy, we are pretty good - way ahead of most of our European contemporaries; similarly with funding.

The tome of the thread seems to refer to R & D and innovation, as opposed to generic 'business ownership' - again, some context would help!

 

[japancool]

and how to boost diversity among British founders and entrepreneurs.

Not while they're pursuing a woke agenda such as this, no.

And just to be clear on this, I'm an ethnic minority. I don't need special treatment. Quite the opposite, in fact. I need the same treatment as a white person in my position gets, that's all. And there are already laws for that.

And also not while there is a culture of not valuing academic achievement in this country. I don't care what anyone says, academic achievement is important. Don't blame the children for not succeeding academically, blame the teachers and the education system for failing them.

You're not going to make this a country of high-achievers by raising a generation of wannabe footballers, TikTokers and Youtubers.

 

[Fagin2021]

Anytime a politician talks about making Britain a 'world-class' or' world-beating' something or other, just remember this quote from 'Yes Prime Minister'...

"We have a system of government with the engine of a lawn-mower and the brakes of a Rolls-Royce."

...and lower your expectations, if you had any.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Not while they're pursuing a woke agenda such as this, no.

And just to be clear on this, I'm an ethnic minority. I don't need special treatment. Quite the opposite, in fact. I need the same treatment as a white person in my position gets, that's all. And there are already laws for that.

And also not while there is a culture of not valuing academic achievement in this country. I don't care what anyone says, academic achievement is important. Don't blame the children for not succeeding academically, blame the teachers and the education system for failing them.

You're not going to make this a country of high-achievers by raising a generation of wannabe footballers, TikTokers and Youtubers.

I hadn't particularly picked up on that - but agree that this smacks of 'ism'.

I'm not aware of any discriminatory barriers in the start up world.

 

[BigDreamer]

• What can the Government and Labour opposition do to ensure Britain is the best place in the world to start and grow a business?

They should find a solution to the truly extortionate costs of renting business premises.

As an example, I have an uncle who lives 1hr from Paris in France where his cost of warehousing is 2500 euros/month for around 10,000 sqft.

Here in the UK anywhere within 2 hours of London you would be lucky to find anything at triple or quadruple that price for the same size. (Not even including rates)

Some Start-ups will definitely need deeper pockets to start in the UK (South East more specifically) as opposed to other places as a result.

 

[NickGrogan]

The Labour party has announced a review to ensure Britain is the best place in the world to start and grow a business.

Aren't Labour supposed to be the ones that don't lie?

Why not start with the best place in the northwest corner of Europe to start and grow a business first?

Then maybe extend to Northern Europe and so on?

Why the focus on Universities? We've got a lot of problems to fix in schools first.

Again they're jumping to the end, rather than starting the beginning.

 

[japancool]

Also, they could start by not treating the self-employed and business owners as the enemy.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

The current administration has made exporting to our biggest trading partner very difficult
Im not a labour voter but

 

[NewTime]

Not while they're pursuing a woke agenda such as this, no.

And just to be clear on this, I'm an ethnic minority. I don't need special treatment. Quite the opposite, in fact. I need the same treatment as a white person in my position gets, that's all. And there are already laws for that.

And also not while there is a culture of not valuing academic achievement in this country. I don't care what anyone says, academic achievement is important. Don't blame the children for not succeeding academically, blame the teachers and the education system for failing them.

You're not going to make this a country of high-achievers by raising a generation of wannabe footballers, TikTokers and Youtubers.

I don't see where you're going about a woke agenda. I don't believe that is particulary what would hold back the country under a new government.

Away from that - this country still has it's hands tied because of Brexit.

 

[The Byre]

The best place in Europe to start what type of business?

Film - London.
Building trade - Germany.
IT - Berlin.
Banking - Luxembourg.

And so on. And often, types of products are very nation-specific. For example, the world's best pro-audio hardware comes from the UK. The best studio microphones however nearly all come from Germany and Austria, but live sound mics come from the US. Film cameras come from Germany, the US and Japan. Luxury yachts come from France and Germany.

So what determines where a business is best located? Answer - education, combined with industry pioneers. IT is in Berlin because the Berlin School of Mathematics is there. The building trades are happiest in Germany because of their very strict apprenticeships and master certification and education. Film is clustered around London because of the National Film School and Surrey Uni's 'Tonmesiter' course and the excellent two music schools - and of course language!

But pioneers like Schoeps, Neumann and Sennheiser brought the studio microphone industry to Germany and Rupert Neve (AMS-Neve) and Graham Langley (Amek) and others brought pro-audio hardware to England. The world's stage mics come from the US because Sidney Shure was located in Chicago. The world's most popular professional movie camera (Arri) is built in Munich because that's where two engineers August Arnold and Robert Richter set up shop in 1917.

You can make all the tax concessions and launch all kinds of initiatives, but without an educated workforce, you are dead in the water. And you need elites and pioneers to make an industry happen. Nobody can build anything with a poor workforce and a workforce will have no work to do without pioneers that have a vision of how things could be different and better.

Governments always fall into the trap of thinking that there are tricks and gimmicks that they can pull to encourage business. Low taxes do not draw people to your country. If it did, then every factory and every film studio would be in Bulgaria. The same applies to wages.

It takes generations to create an elite workforce. There are no easy fixes!

 

[DontAsk]

Also, they could start by not treating the self-employed and business owners as the enemy.

I seem to recall a certain G. Brown doubled down in this.

It's a no from me.

 

[tony84]

Don't blame the children for not succeeding academically, blame the teachers and the education system for failing them.

In my school:
One teacher was pushed to the point of having a mental breakdown in class.
Another teacher was suspended for 6 months due to being accused of touching one of the students (he was found innocent),
I also recall a few classes where teachers would have had a better success teaching the wall their subjects.

You can lead a horse to water and all that.

I am sure there are some students who could attain more given the right teaching methods. But I also recall seeing a lot of teachers wanting to help but were just being frustrated at every turn usually by said awkward students.

I blame the students 99% of the time.

 

[japancool]

The best place in Europe to start what type of business?

Film - London.
Building trade - Germany.
IT - Berlin.
Banking - Luxembourg.

And so on. And often, types of products are very nation-specific. For example, the world's best pro-audio hardware comes from the UK. The best studio microphones however nearly all come from Germany and Austria, but live sound mics come from the US. Film cameras come from Germany, the US and Japan. Luxury yachts come from France and Germany.

So what determines where a business is best located? Answer - education, combined with industry pioneers. IT is in Berlin because the Berlin School of Mathematics is there. The building trades are happiest in Germany because of their very strict apprenticeships and master certification and education. Film is clustered around London because of the National Film School and Surrey Uni's 'Tonmesiter' course and the excellent two music schools - and of course language!

But pioneers like Schoeps, Neumann and Sennheiser brought the studio microphone industry to Germany and Rupert Neve (AMS-Neve) and Graham Langley (Amek) and others brought pro-audio hardware to England. The world's stage mics come from the US because Sidney Shure was located in Chicago. The world's most popular professional movie camera (Arri) is built in Munich because that's where two engineers August Arnold and Robert Richter set up shop in 1917.

You can make all the tax concessions and launch all kinds of initiatives, but without an educated workforce, you are dead in the water. And you need elites and pioneers to make an industry happen. Nobody can build anything with a poor workforce and a workforce will have no work to do without pioneers that have a vision of how things could be different and better.

Governments always fall into the trap of thinking that there are tricks and gimmicks that they can pull to encourage business. Low taxes do not draw people to your country. If it did, then every factory and every film studio would be in Bulgaria. The same applies to wages.

It takes generations to create an elite workforce. There are no easy fixes!

THIS.

How did South Korea pull itself up by its bootstraps in the 1980s? It wasn't by giving people the rights to buy their council houses or giving them jobs as Amazon delivery drivers. Or MPs.

 

[paulears]

Well that seems pretty consensus setting!

 

[japancool]

One teacher was pushed to the point of having a mental breakdown in class.
Another teacher was suspended for 6 months due to being accused of touching one of the students (he was found innocent),
I also recall a few classes where teachers would have had a better success teaching the wall their subjects.

Then why do 66% of Finnish students go on to tertiary education, while only 32% of British students do?

It can't be that Brits are genetically dumber than Finns.

You only have to look at the scorn poured on the idea of having academic qualifications on a recent thread on this forum to see what the attitude towards education is in this country.

 

[fisicx]

I blame the students 99% of the time.

Or more likely the parents.

Had one pupil was asked not to ride his moped in the playground and refused because his Dad told him not to take orders from anyone.

A girl said she didn’t need qualifications because her parents told her she never needed to get a job as they were rich.

Another young lad never saw his parents because they were always at work and out at the weekends.

 

[tony84]

Then why do 66% of Finnish students go on to tertiary education, while only 32% of British students do?

It can't be that Brits are genetically dumber than Finns.

You only have to look at the scorn poured on the idea of having academic qualifications on a recent thread on this forum to see what the attitude towards education is in this country.

Could it be something to do with the home life?

I grew up on a council estate in Manchester, but right next to one of the most expensive parts of Manchester. In our school there were students who came from well off families (compared to where I grew up) and students who came from the council estate.

The kids from the more affluent side from what I can see on facebook appear to earn more/have done more with their lives the kids from the council estate. Its not cut and dry and clearly only a very small sample but I think the parents/home lives plays a large part in it.

 

[paulears]

I know we're going off topic as usual, but when I was teaching they send me on the first aid at work course. Next day a troubled 18yr old slashed her wrist with a knife outside my office. I called 999 then stuck my thumb over the gash, and lifted the arm above her head - as in the course the day before. Ambulance came, student taken away. The Principal asked me to go to his office. Instead of the pat on the back I was told that I had placed the college in a very serious situation as I did not put on rubber gloves. There was no time, and of course we didn't actually have any - but it was my choice, and I took the risk. Instead of thanks I got a verbal warning to not take unnecessary risks as it would have put the college in a bad position. Dying probably would to, I thought - but for once, kept my mouth shut.

 

[simon field]

In my school:
One teacher was pushed to the point of having a mental breakdown in class.
Another teacher was suspended for 6 months due to being accused of touching one of the students (he was found innocent),
I also recall a few classes where teachers would have had a better success teaching the wall their subjects.

You can lead a horse to water and all that.

I am sure there are some students who could attain more given the right teaching methods. But I also recall seeing a lot of teachers wanting to help but were just being frustrated at every turn usually by said awkward students.

I blame the students 99% of the time.

Kids are horrible, but they are a reflection of their upbringing by parents who pretend they don’t have enough time to bring them up properly whilst spending their own time glued to screens and making stupid duck-pout faces for soshall meeja.

Parents who cry ‘yeah but I’m so busy’ when they mostly have every time and labour saving device imaginable!

Winkers.

 

[MBE2017]

Regarding education, a major problem is children with learning and behavioural problems being put into mainstream schools. Not all can cope, and as a result a teachers life, already a stressful one becomes near impossible to control the class.

My daughter has three children with special needs, an LSA to help, but one of the children with severe autism simply runs around, unable to sit still. The school do not have the resources to get a one to one helper. To top everything else off, a young Ukrainian child has arrived, with no English, unable to read or write in English or Ukrainian, parents almost as bad but unavailable to be of any help. The kid currently only knows how to attack the rest of the class with large sticks.

I don’t think this is anything remarkable, I’m sure there are many worse scenarios, but everyday such children slow down the rest of the classes learning, and I speak with no ill will having an autistic daughter of my own.

All children deserve a chance, our current system of lumping all abilities together does not help things.

 

[DontAsk]

I blame the students 99% of the time.

I blame the parents 100%

 

[DontAsk]

Regarding education, a major problem is children with learning and behavioural problems being put into mainstream schools. Not all can cope, and as a result a teachers life, already a stressful one becomes near impossible to control the class.

This ^^^

Add to that the money individual schools (as opposed to specialist establishments) have to invest in equipment for severely handicapped pupils that MUST experience mainstream education. e.g. a hoist so that one pupil could have their bodily functions attended to. In a first school it was redundant after three years when the kid moved up to the next school.

Unfortunately I don't think the political will exists to face down entitled parents and create worthwhile alternatives.

 

[BigDreamer]

Corporal Punishment should be brought back in schools. I hardly ever misbehaved in school otherwise I got the cane or got punished by doing forced manual labour at 6am on a Saturday.

Kids these days feel too entitled as the system has made schools turn soft on them. Probably the woke mentality.

Maybe if were more tough and strict on them they would grow up to be tough and disciplined and we would have a better workforce as opposed to one that is lazy and feels like the world owes them something.

 

[MBE2017]

Corporal Punishment should be brought back in schools.

Terrible idea, corporal punishment is a terrible outdated concept, administered in the past by untrained professionals in its use. I hope we never see it’s re introduction in the UK.

I got the cane once, for following the school kids code of not ratting on your friends. Did it change me? Yes. For the better? No. I made that teacher pay for his mistake everyday for years, I don’t forget, and never forgive.

If a teacher ever tried to abuse one of my daughters with corporal punishment, permitted or not, I think I would be in jail.

 

[simon field]

As a kid, I used to love getting caned at school!

 

[Mark T Jones]

As a kid, I used to love getting caned at school!

Badge of honour!

As far as I can make out, the only thing corporal punishment achieved was to encourage pervert teachers who enjoyed hitting people

 

[Newchodge]

Corporal Punishment should be brought back in schools. I hardly ever misbehaved in school otherwise I got the cane or got punished by doing forced manual labour at 6am on a Saturday.

Kids these days feel too entitled as the system has made schools turn soft on them. Probably the woke mentality.

Maybe if were more tough and strict on them they would grow up to be tough and disciplined and we would have a better workforce as opposed to one that is lazy and feels like the world owes them something.

Maybe the attitude of some parents - 'don't take orders from anyone' mentioned above - comes from the parent's experience of school being a place where teachers bully those who do not fit the teacher's perception of appropriate?

 

[The Byre]

Then why do 66% of Finnish students go on to tertiary education, while only 32% of British students do?

1. It's free.
2. The standards are higher. No PPE or Media Studies.
3. The universities are all real universities and not former techs wearing falsies!
4. No accreditation for private colleges for the terminally stupid. ("Welcome to the Wysuckie College for the totally dumb! Gain vital college credits for money paid!")

You only have to look at the scorn poured on the idea of having academic qualifications on a recent thread on this forum to see what the attitude towards education is in this country.

Inappropriate subjects not geared to the needs of industry or commerce and low standards mean that many graduates in the UK cannot find work because a degree from many unis is worse than a waste of time and money - it is a certificate of intellectual poverty. A degree in Music Technology from Middlesex or Paisley is proof that you know nothing about music or technology. In one engineering subject, our local uni states that candidates must have one A-Level or one Scottish Higher, Grade D or better, or the equivalent life experience!

Dear Heavens! What is the equivalent life experience of one Grade D? Being able to breathe? Can stand on one leg?

Finnish unis work closely with Finnish industry and commerce - UK unis seldom do. And the standards of the lecturers in the UK are all too often below abysmal. 30% of Finnish students are studying a science subject.

Kids these days feel too entitled as the system has made schools turn soft on them. Probably the woke mentality.

I believe Plato said much the same thing. It was arrogant and uninformed nonsense then and it's arrogant and uninformed nonsense now!

The employment of good, kind and enthusiastic teachers is all it takes!

 

[Paul Norman]

Equally, I don't think the Tories are going about this with much panache, either.

But no. The current labour party could not. I am not sure any party could, though. I am not sure the British public want that, and in any case, they are too divided over what would consitute that.

Look on this thread. At least one person has gone the social media mono sylablic route and got all upset because of the language around fairness and diversity. Getting that right would, in some people's opinion, be essential. For others, it would be the opposite - the removal of all restraints on pay, and diversity. But keeping the restraints on employing from over seas.

So I don't think the route of the problem lies in the Labour party. Or the Tory party. It's us.

 

[MBE2017]

I followed my daughters path through her UK University, and I have to admit I was shocked. On her course, she was the only regular attendee, most turned up only if it suited them.

The lecturers often cancelled lectures, and often forget to inform the students they would not be turning up. Those that did turn up to present a lecture, were often half and hour or more late, and often in a different room to the one advised beforehand.

I’m afraid I can understand the poor image of many courses, and I think most people with a brain understand the opening up of University to most was simply a way to reduce unemployment figures in the past and create a new sector for an established industry.

The Universities, and lecturers are just as much to blame as the students, who I feel most sorry for, starting out their lives in £35/50k of student debt buying sub standard education, most of which you could probably get the equivalent from a £50 ebook home study course.

 

[The Byre]

The Universities, and lecturers are just as much to blame as the students, who I feel most sorry for, starting out their lives in £35/50k of student debt buying sub standard education, most of which you could probably get the equivalent from a £50 ebook home study course.

The UK tertiary education system has in part morphed into one giant scam.

Many unis provide online degree courses that are cheap enough to be paid out-of-pocket. And many are not Mickey Mouse degrees either. Economics at the LSE for example.

 

[paulears]

For corporal punishment to be successful, then the society around it has to reflect it. It worked for us, because our parents also thought it a good idea, so if I got caned, by father was furious ..... with me! Not the teachers who did it.

The reason I stopped supply teaching was that a teacher needs the students to want to do what they suggest, there are no penalties a teacher can employ to make them do things they do not wish to do.

Aspiration is split - those who want to progress their education in all ways, and those who see no sense in it. My grandson's teacher says they now have fourth generation unemployed parents. Their kids have holidays, cars, electronics, without having worked for them, so why would they wish to work, or go to uni, or even pass exams. They are unnecessary for modern life in certain social-economic groups. We used to have three classes, now we have four, and that new group hold an awful lot of power. Nobody has courage to even acknowledge this, but we all know it. When I grew up, we had some rough council areas, and everyone dodgy was holed up in the worst of them. The decent Council house folk were at a disadvantage. Now, these areas are actually quite nice locally - and we have all the dodgy folk in private rented accommodation all over the place - in all kinds of council band areas. We've lost control. My son's trying to move house - everywhere they've looked there is some low-life, and we're not talking about just cheap housing - there always seems to be one house on every street with a scrapyard of cars in the front garden!

 

[simon field]

Then why do 66% of Finnish students go on to tertiary education, while only 32% of British students do?

It can't be that Brits are genetically dumber than Finns.

You only have to look at the scorn poured on the idea of having academic qualifications on a recent thread on this forum to see what the attitude towards education is in this country.

I’d say it’s the education system that is dumber, not the kids.

For some reason, the national curriculum bears no relevance to the requirements of the real world in this country. It’s antiquated, and as teachers are more like childminders/social workers these days (doing what the parents aren’t bothering with), they don’t stand a chance!

 

[japancool]

At least one person has gone the social media mono sylablic route and got all upset because of the language around fairness and diversity.

The language of "diversity" that the government uses is the exact opposite of fairness.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Sometimes coming on here is like walking into a village pub, to be confornted by a group of 80 year old locals, bemoaning the modern day and putting the world to rights.

I know, I'm guilty of it too.

 

[japancool]

Sometimes coming on here is like walking into a village pub, to be confornted by a group of 80 year old locals, bemoaning the modern day and putting the world to rights.

I know, I'm guilty of it too.

When ah were a lad, we din't 'ave this 'tinterweb thing. We 'ad ta walk five mile and back just to talk t'dog. An' it were uphill all t'way.

 

[simon field]

When ah were a lad, we din't 'ave this 'tinterweb thing. We 'ad ta walk five mile and back just to talk t'dog. An' it were uphill all t'way.

Luxury! We ‘ad to do it on us knees, backwards.