Can I sue my former employer?

[Naive citizen]

This recently happened to me and I want to know what other people would do. I'm also asking as per title whether or not I can sue my former employer.

1. I had a good job which I had held for 12 years.

2. Due to relocation I had to apply for a new job while continuing in my old job.

3. Got a job offer from a national firm

4. Resigned from my good solid job of 12 years to move to the new role

5. After 2 and a half months of employment there was a crisis and I was blamed for it. I was not at fault but with them being judge, jury and executioner and with me being new to the organisation I was extremely vulnerable and had no political capital to be able to fight them.

6. I was dismissed without warning.

I feel like they have messed me around. Something inside their organisation is rotten and I've been exploited so that the rot can continue unchallenged. If they had explained at the interview that they were prone to whimsical behaviour which could cause me to lose my income I probably wouldn't have left very secure employment for the role with this company.

I don't think I can go to an employment tribunal because you don't get your full employment rights until you've been in post for 2 years.

What should I do?

 

[Newchodge]

This recently happened to me and I want to know what other people would do. I'm also asking as per title whether or not I can sue my former employer.

1. I had a good job which I had held for 12 years.

2. Due to relocation I had to apply for a new job while continuing in my old job.

3. Got a job offer from a national firm

4. Resigned from my good solid job of 12 years to move to the new role

5. After 2 and a half months of employment there was a crisis and I was blamed for it. I was not at fault but with them being judge, jury and executioner and with me being new to the organisation I was extremely vulnerable and had no political capital to be able to fight them.

6. I was dismissed without warning.

I feel like they have messed me around. Something inside their organisation is rotten and I've been exploited so that the rot can continue unchallenged. If they had explained at the interview that they were prone to whimsical behaviour which could cause me to lose my income I probably wouldn't have left very secure employment for the role with this company.

I don't think I can go to an employment tribunal because you don't get your full employment rights until you've been in post for 2 years.

What should I do?

I am afraid there is nothing whatsoever you can do except look for another job.

 

[Naive citizen]

I am afraid there is nothing whatsoever you can do except look for another job.

I was of the view that you could sue anybody for anything. Chances of success vary according to circumstances but you can do it.

 

[Newchodge]

I was of the view that you could sue anybody for anything. Chances of success vary according to circumstances but you can do it.

You certainly can. And you can be held laible for their legal costs in defending a claim that has no chance whatsoever of success.

 

[Naive citizen]

You certainly can. And you can be held laible for their legal costs in defending a claim that has no chance whatsoever of success.

So if you sue for damages, which arguably there have been in this instance. All you have to do is prove they've caused damage. What is their defence?

 

[IanSuth]

I was of the view that you could sue anybody for anything. Chances of success vary according to circumstances but you can do it.

If you are going to sue it has to be for a reason (as in a legal reason), what law would you sue them under and what detriment do you think you have been caused (monetarily)

With regard to employment tribunal (the court for employment matters) up until 2 years you basically will only get anywhere if you can show that the reason for your dismissal was intrinsically linked to a protected characteristic (like race, sex, disability, religion, pregnancy etc) - even then you won't get alot and you would be paying the legal bill.

20 years ago my wife had just been offered a job when she found she was pregnant - out of honesty she told the new employer (luckily just before she handed in notice) and they withdrew the offer - legal advice was "you are totally in the right, but as you were moving more same £ and won't get enhanced maternity pay due to short employment time, you won't get anything for loss of earnings, just for hurt to feelings which will likely about equal our bill - so don't bother" - so we chalked it down to a lucky escape and she stated put at the company she is still at.

 

[Newchodge]

which arguably there have been in this instance.

What damages? The only damages you could claim would be if they dismissed you without proper notice.

 

[Naive citizen]

What damages? The only damages you could claim would be if they dismissed you without proper notice.

There has been no notice. I went into a meeting room, we had a discussion for around an hour, towards the end of the discussion it started to become clear to me that there was some hostility. Then they sprang it on me.

But am I right in thinking the damage they have caused could relate to future loss of earnings as I am now likely to be out of work for a period while I find a new job. Damages to reputation as I will have to explain my employment gap. Lost employment rights which I gave up because I believed when they offered me a job that it wasn't a temporary one.

 

[Newchodge]

There has been no notice. I went into a meeting room, we had a discussion for around an hour, towards the end of the discussion it started to become clear to me that there was some hostility. Then they sprang it on me.

But am I right in thinking the damage they have caused could relate to future loss of earnings as I am now likely to be out of work for a period while I find a new job. Damages to reputation as I will have to explain my employment gap. Lost employment rights which I gave up because I believed when they offered me a job that it wasn't a temporary one.

You should have had 1 week or whatever was in the contract as notice pay. If you did not get that notice pay you can sue them for wrongful dismissal if the dismissal was less than 3 months ago. Start with ACAS early conciliation.

For the rest I have given my opinion.

 

[Naive citizen]

You should have had 1 week or whatever was in the contract as notice pay. If you did not get that notice pay you can sue them for wrongful dismissal if the dismissal was less than 3 months ago. Start with ACAS early conciliation.

For the rest I have given my opinion.

I won't know if they're paying any notice until I get the final letter. I'm still waiting for that. Due to the issue of having keep a roof over our heads I am researching the correct way to hold to account the people responsible for my detriment. Remember, I had been employed for 12 years before, 16 years before that. I am not some idiot who got fired because he swore at his boss. I feel like I've been messed around and from other people I've spoken to they generally agree.

 

[Mark T Jones]

What is their defence?

Discover that and you'll have a good idea of the outcome.

Remember all they have to is demonstrate that they have acted legally.

You have to prove, 'beyond reasonable doubt', with hard, factual evidence and potentially witness statements that they haven't.

 

[Naive citizen]

Discover that and you'll have a good idea of the outcome.

Remember all they have to is demonstrate that they have acted legally.

You have to prove, 'beyond reasonable doubt', with hard, factual evidence and potentially witness statements that they haven't.

If somebody sues you. They say "you have cost me xyz and I'm attempting to recover" - what is your defence? It can only be "no, we've not caused you any cost you as you are suggesting" - i.e. the point of argument isn't whether or not they had a good reason to terminate my employment. It's the issue of whether or not their actions have resulted in costs to me howsoever described. I would have thought?

I imagine if it were an employment tribunal then the way that they've handled my rights and managed their responsibilities would be part of the discussion.

To put it another way, this could be viewed as me collecting an unpaid bill using the court.

 

[Newchodge]

what is your defence

Simple. What illegal action by us caused your loss?

 

[Mark T Jones]

If somebody sues you. They say "you have cost me xyz and I'm attempting to recover" - what is your defence? It can only be "no, we've not caused you any cost you as you are suggesting" - i.e. the point of argument isn't whether or not they had a good reason to terminate my employment. It's the issue of whether or not their actions have resulted in costs to me howsoever described. I would have thought?

I imagine if it were an employment tribunal then the way that they've handled my rights and managed their responsibilities would be part of the discussion.

To put it another way, this could be viewed as me collecting an unpaid bill using the court.

You are living down to your forum name.

Read what experienced people have written & take note.

Nothing you have written to this points suggests that you have any case whatsoever.

There is no value whatsoever in you selling this proposition to yourself. Still less in you trying to sell it to us.

 

[Naive citizen]

Simple. What illegal action by us caused your loss?

You're mixing up civil law and criminal law. With civil law there is no issue of an illegal act.

 

[Newchodge]

You're mixing up civil law and criminal law. With civil law there is no issue of an illegal act.

If you say so.

 

[Naive citizen]

If you say so.

It's indisputable fact. Not my opinion.

 

[Newchodge]

It's indisputable fact. Not my opinion.

If you say so.

 

[Naive citizen]

If you say so.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_law

"Private law is that part of a civil law legal system which is part of the jus commune that involves relationships between individuals, such as the law of contracts and torts[1] (as it is called in the common law), and the law of obligations (as it is called in civil legal systems). It is to be distinguished from public law, which deals with relationships between both natural and artificial persons (i.e., organizations) and the state, including regulatory statutes, penal law and other law that affects the public order. In general terms, private law involves interactions between private individuals, whereas public law involves interrelations between the state and the general population."

 

[fisicx]

Makes no difference what you think, say or do. You have been sacked and should you take legal action it will cost you far more in fees than you ever will in compensation.

 

[Naive citizen]

Makes no difference what you think, say or do. You have been sacked and should you take legal action it will cost you far more in fees than you ever will in compensation.

The fees are proportionate to the size of the claim if going via the small claims route. For instance, if your claim was for £10,000 the fee would be £455 - I'm no mathematician but it seems pretty obvious to me the fee is less than the compensation in that example. If you look at the chart all fees are all less than the compensation. That shouldn't be a surprise though.

 

[Mark T Jones]

TBH I've pretty much sided with your former employer, so best I remove myself from the thread.

 

[Naive citizen]

TBH I've pretty much sided with your former employer, so best I remove myself from the thread.

I think my advice to anyone thinking about commenting would be to know what you're talking about if intending to reply in an authoritative fashion. I don't mind people who start their reply with "have you thought about..." and make a helpful suggestion but when people make bold statements or issue aggressive responses which are totally inaccurate they probably will want to "remove themselves" so they stop looking silly.

 

[japancool]

I believe @Newchodge is a lawyer. I expect she would know a thing or two about how the law works.

 

[IanSuth]

The fees are proportionate to the size of the claim if going via the small claims route. For instance, if your claim was for £10,000 the fee would be £455 - I'm no mathematician but it seems pretty obvious to me the fee is less than the compensation in that example. If you look at the chart all fees are all less than the compensation. That shouldn't be a surprise though.

So what LAW do you think your current employer has broken - assuming that you get a letter of dismissal paying you your pay in lieu of notice.

Also what did they actually say to you at the end of the meeting where you were dismissed - did they say "go home now and we will write to you" or something else.

Remember if they did not tell you to go home and you decide to go for a civil claim for something or other, they can just retaliate with a counterclaim for you not working out your notice and the cost to them of covering your workload in that period plus x,y & z other matters.

I worked in recruitment for 27 years, I have been in several court cases (mainly over recruitment agency fee matters but also TUPE, unfair dismissal and unlawful deduction from wages disputes) I have not seen an individual get one over on a corporation that was following the law (and even some that werent) - if you represent yourself with your apparent lack of legal understanding you will lose and lose horribly.

Courts don't deal with right/wrong/fair they deal with what is legally correct

 

[GraemeL]

If they had explained at the interview that they were prone to whimsical behaviour which could cause me to lose my income I probably wouldn't have left very secure employment for the role with this company.

You could have asked them if this was the case in a fanciful way?

 

[Shopclicks]

I don't mind people who start their reply with "have you thought about..."

Have you thought about .... making this a rational discussion, instead of a dismissive one?

Tell us more about why you were dismissed .....

 

[IanSuth]

So if you want non judgemental advice give us non emotive facts

What do they say you did to warrant dismissal

What is your defence for why you did not do that or why you feel you were discriminated against

Remember <2yrs unless you can prove discrimination the bar is incredibly high to win anything.

What was your contractual notice period currently

Are they paying you for that time in lieu of notice (or did you storm out and they were actually expecting you to work it)

The fact you worked elsewhere for 12 years is legally irrelevant - you had a contract, the company said you did something and are terminating that contract, so as long as they follow the procedure for early termination as set out in that contract....

 

[Newchodge]

Have you thought about .... making this a rational discussion, instead of a dismissive one?

Tell us more about why you were dismissed .....

I am afraid that it is entirely irrelevant, unless it was due to a protected characteristic, or raising a grievance or whistleblowing.

 

[Shopclicks]

I am afraid that it is entirely irrelevant, unless it was due to a protected characteristic, or raising a grievance or whistleblowing.

Yeah ... I'm just nosey

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

I'm siding with the former employer too but I see something else here and its bitterness and that bitterness is only going to consume you and nobody else

Forget about it That's life but remember every time you get knocked down and you get up again you are stronger . Get up and do something new

 

[Naive citizen]

Yeah ... I'm just nosey

This is why I have more_or_less disregarded the employment law route. I'm certainly not a legal professional but I have won a lot in the past. I even got BMW to settle with me on one occasion.

With my limited understanding (hence wishing to have a discussion, I'm not telling people, I'm debating the questions) I can claim losses / damages - I think, if it can be shown they have not acted reasonably.

I believe they have not acted reasonably and people I've spoken to at length on this issue agree they have not been reasonable. Where they have not been reasonable there is scope for a claim.

 

[Naive citizen]

I'm siding with the former employer too but I see something else here and its bitterness and that bitterness is only going to consume you and nobody else

Forget about it That's life but remember every time you get knocked down and you get up again you are stronger . Get up and do something new

doesn't pay the mortgage I'm afraid!

 

[Frank the Insurance guy]

Hi @Naive citizen , sorry to hear of your issue. Appreciate you left a secure job for this, which didn't work out.

Regardless of the validity of taking legal action, I recommend you seek another job - if (a big if) if their is merit in you taking legal action, you will need to demonstrate your financial loss. Once you have another job you will be able to quantify the loss easier. You will also have to prove you are making steps to get a job (you will have to demonstrate best efforts in minimising your losses - ie. by getting a new job).

Do you have Home Insurance, or a credit card - many include free legal advice with a professional employment lawyer. Give them a call, tell them the full facts and they will be able to give you a clear indication of whether there is any merit in pursuing this.

In the meantime, get another job.

 

[Naive citizen]

Hi @Naive citizen , sorry to hear of your issue. Appreciate you left a secure job for this, which didn't work out.

Regardless of the validity of taking legal action, I recommend you seek another job - if (a big if) if their is merit in you taking legal action, you will need to demonstrate your financial loss. Once you have another job you will be able to quantify the loss easier. You will also have to prove you are making steps to get a job (you will have to demonstrate best efforts in minimising your losses - ie. by getting a new job).

Do you have Home Insurance, or a credit card - many include free legal advice with a professional employment lawyer. Give them a call, tell them the full facts and they will be able to give you a clear indication of whether there is any merit in pursuing this.

In the meantime, get another job.

Thanks, that's genuinely helpful information. Getting a new job is top of the in tray

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

doesn't pay the mortgage I'm afraid!

Do you think the members of this forum have had the same job security that you have enjoyed over the years
We have taken massive risks and sometimes it goes wrong !
There are people on here that have lost everything got back on it again and turned it around
You wont pay the mortgage dwelling on it You will pay it by finding something else to do and stop winging about the past

Forget it and find something else

 

[Shopclicks]

After 2 and a half months of employment there was a crisis and I was blamed for it. I was not at fault

Not at fault? Or not willing to take responsibility? Genuine question.

It sounds like you just weren't a good fit for the company.

 

[Naive citizen]

Not at fault? Or not willing to take responsibility? Genuine question.

It sounds like you just weren't a good fit for the company.

It's not either / or. There are multitude possibilities. I don't know the truth, but I think in this case my boss didn't want to take the wrap for it so threw me under the bus instead. Bear in mind that also fits the pattern of somebody new in a role making discoveries about actions prior to their tenure which could harm those responsible. i.e. possibly proactive / defensive action.

 

[Shopclicks]

I don't know the truth, but I think in this case my boss didn't want to take the wrap for it so threw me under the bus instead.

I think you do.

Call your 12 year employer and see if they'll take you back.

 

[Naive citizen]

I think you do.

Call your 12 year employer and see if they'll take you back.

I did and they said yes.

...but they have already filled the role. With it being 2 months they have managed to recruit someone new. They will consider me for other roles and had even suggested one I could do.