Buying Windows 10 or 11 for new system

[UKSBD]

Nvidia RTX 3090 TI Founders Edition - £1500​

https://amzn.to/3GHUTAF

Probably a 3080 but not until (if) they get closer to £500/600
Still silly prices at moment, but dropping

 

[gpietersz]

I hear all sorts of claims like that and when one drills down to reality, it turns out that this or that software or equipment was used only for either a few scenes or for some off-line purpose.

That example I mentioned in depth: https://www.blender.org/user-stories/visual-effects-for-the-man-in-the-high-castle/

Tried and tested changes over time. There was a time when Lotus 1-2-3 was the tried an tested spreadsheet, before that it was Visicalc. People used to regard proprietary Unix as the safe choice for running servers, now its Linux.

3 of those 4 were originally Unix apps and still are.

I did not know that. So yet another supposed barrier to using Linux proves false!

Yes more evidence of professional use of Linux in the areas people claim it cannot be used.

Now, Linux community is in the middle of this culture war - and there are some toxic elements now inserted in the various Linux projects - and people trying to enforce code of conduct and push agendas of inclusion.

Yes, because that only happens with Linux! The software industry (and anything else dominated by Americans) is rife with it.

It only affects developers. Users looking for help do not run into this.

 

[gpietersz]

Configured a system virtually the same as what we built - £1670 (with no graphics card)

What his cost = £1225

You saved £445 less the value of your time.

That said it is a learning experience and you get exactly the spec you want.

Probably a 3080 but not until (if) they get closer to £500/600
Still silly prices at moment, but dropping

Also paying for the increasing power consumption of these things.

4 hours of unpacking, sorting, building - No Display message.
Taking apart again, reinstalling RAM, installing graphics card from another machine, removing battery, putting battery back, reinstalling Ram, finally getting it going.

Unplug everything, set in position, reconnect, restart - No Display message.
20 more minutes of reinstalling, head scratching, finally notice we are plugging the monitor in to the Motherboard display port instead of Graphics card

How did that happen? I would have through if you had the onboard graphics disabled in the BIOS you would not have been able to install. If not the OS should have detected where the monitor was plugged in ans switched displays.

 

[UKSBD]

How did that happen? I would have through if you had the onboard graphics disabled in the BIOS you would not have been able to install. If not the OS should have detected where the monitor was plugged in ans switched displays.

It hasn't got integrated graphics

 

[DontAsk]

It hasn't got integrated graphics

So what's the motherboard display port connected to?

 

[UKSBD]

So what's the motherboard display port connected to?

I would assume the CPU would make it work, if the CPU had integrated graphics

 

[gpietersz]

@UKSBD did not think of that. I can see it would be an easy mistake to make.

 

[The Byre]

As for video production there have been TV series made with software that does run on Linux (Blender) so, again, professional use and a cost taken out of $100m budgets (e.g. Man in the High Castle, $200m for the first two seasons).

And yet again, we drill down and discover that it was not made in Blender, but used it for one or two bits.

FFS why would the lad who wants to play popular games and use a huge catalog of software go even near a Linux distro. It makes no sense to even recommend it.

This.

This is typical for software evangelists. They have found a new religion - in this case Linux. Maybe there are some applications for Linux that make sense, but I have yet to find them. As for some movie using Blender, I am a Blender user on rare occasions and it really is just a 3D modeling package and nothing else. It is very good at hard objects like buildings but does not do smoke, fire, water and fur convincingly. For that, you need Houdini, 3DMax, Maya and programmes like that.

But nobody is going to edit a film in Blender - that is impossible! There are dozens of steps to making a film and none of those other steps are done by programmes that are ported to Linux - so having a Linux system would be pointless, as you cannot master the sound, get 3D sound, colourise the film, master the film, make the DCP or the BR versions on a Linux system.

 

[DontAsk]

Best of both worlds, WSL on Windows.

Setting up Apache, SQL, etc., to test my website recently, was so much easier in WSL than either Windows or Ubuntu on bare metal, which I used previously. No idea why the latter was difficult, but it was. Probably subtle variations in the distros (WSL was a newer distro).

The latest WSL incarnation is even more integrated with support for GUI apps without having to setup an X terminal in Windows and Linux apps can now appear in the Windows task bar. USB support is still a it iffy.

 

[gpietersz]

The "why would you use Linux for a system for games" is a red herring because Linux was suggested before OP said it was a gaming system. No one here suggested you use Linux for a gaming system - although Valve seem to be betting on it with the Steamdeck.

And yet again, we drill down and discover that it was not made in Blender, but used it for one or two bits.

The point is Blender was used for a critical part of the workflow. If course it was used only for what it was designed for!

For that, you need Houdini,

Like most of what you listed earlier, Houdini is available for Linux.

You are equating "you cannot do it with Blender" with "you cannot do it on Linux" If you need Houdini, you can use it on Linux.

The article says they replaced Maya with Blender.

It is very good at hard objects like buildings but does not do smoke, fire, water and fur convincingly.

It also says:

"We’ve used Blender’s fluid system and particle system (though both of these need work) and render everything in Cycles."

This is typical for software evangelists. They have found a new religion - in this case Linux.

I am not exactly a Linux evangelist. I have been considering switching some things away from Linux (experimenting with other OSes, and if you followed me on Reddit you would have seen me ask questions about them too).

The problem is misconceptions. Look at the number of your claims that are factually incorrect. Most of the packages you mentioned earlier turned out to be available for Linux. I would say the real problem are MS and Apple fanbois who are unwilling to take facts on board. I have direct experience of using Linux, and setting it up for other people, you do not.

You say something cannot be done on Linux, but there are enough people doing it on Linux to sell the software for Linux. That maybe because they were originally Unix software so the Linux port was much simpler than the Windows one, but I find it very hard to believe they would continue to sell a Linux version without a reasonably high level of demand - can you explain that? I already asked once.

Maybe there are some applications for Linux that make sense, but I have yet to find them.

It sounds like a lot of software you use was originally written for Unix or Linux. Its not just the software you mentioned earlier either. It is probable, for example, that you are viewing this site using a derivative of a web browser originally written for Linux.

The world runs on Linux (most websites, including this one, just for a start, most big IT systems, a lot of embedded systems). You are constantly indirectly using Linux. For many people their local OS is just a client for web apps - which is why ChromeOS (another Linux, originally a Gentoo Linux fork) is so popular so why not choose the more secure and easier to maintain option?

 

[gpietersz]

Setting up Apache, SQL, etc., to test my website recently, was so much easier in WSL than either Windows or Ubuntu on bare metal, which I used previously. No idea why the latter was difficult, but it was. Probably subtle variations in the distros (WSL was a newer distro).

WSL2 is just a specialised VM, so any difference was down to the difference in distros.

The latest WSL incarnation is even more integrated with support for GUI apps without having to setup an X terminal in Windows and Linux apps can now appear in the Windows task bar. USB support is still a it iffy.

You can run Windows GUI apps on Linux using a VM too - and its pretty well integrated. The last time I did it was using virtualbox which gave you a separate Windows taskbar (a good few years ago though). WINE works for some things too. No USB issues as far as I know.

I am back to using VMs myself though - but mostly running different Linux distros (to get exactly the same environment as a particular server) or other OSes I want to do something specific/experiment with.

 

[The Byre]

@gpietersz - I fail to see why you need to hijack this thread so that you can evangelise here about an OS that is used by less than 2% of the market.

I shall worry about Linux when a customer comes to me and says "I have to use Linux because Avid / Adobe / Vegas / Nuendo only runs on a Linux system. As nearly all US productions are made using Avids (ProTools and Media Composer) and on this side of The Pond we tend to use either Avid or Adobe Premier / After Effects or Vegas with audio in ProTools or Reaper, we have to have systems that can run ALL these applications and not just one or two.

In all my puff, I have never had anyone come to me expecting me to provide them with a Linux-based system. Apple, yes. PC, yes. Linux? WTF is that? Something for the nerds?

It only needs one - yes just ONE - vital task in any industrial process to be unavailable on a specific system and that system is automatically out of the window. You started to bang on about film and TV and I have NEVER seen anyone use anything except Apples and PCs. And I have been in this game since the days of black-and-white TV.

That is the reality of industrial standards - you MUST always use what your customers are asking for. Being a fanboy of some looney minority thing is all fine and good and that is how new programmes and apps get started. Reaper started like that and it is now my go-to multi-track audio app (and available on Linux). But you MUST stay mainstream if you want customers.

That is an important point and one we all have to learn sooner or later!

 

[Kerwin]

@gpietersz - I fail to see why you need to hijack this thread so that you can evangelise here about an OS that is used by less than 2% of the market.

I shall worry about Linux when a customer comes to me and says "I have to use Linux because Avid / Adobe / Vegas / Nuendo only runs on a Linux system. As nearly all US productions are made using Avids (ProTools and Media Composer) and on this side of The Pond we tend to use either Avid or Adobe Premier / After Effects or Vegas with audio in ProTools or Reaper, we have to have systems that can run ALL these applications and not just one or two.

In all my puff, I have never had anyone come to me expecting me to provide them with a Linux-based system. Apple, yes. PC, yes. Linux? WTF is that? Something for the nerds?

It only needs one - yes just ONE - vital task in any industrial process to be unavailable on a specific system and that system is automatically out of the window. You started to bang on about film and TV and I have NEVER seen anyone use anything except Apples and PCs. And I have been in this game since the days of black-and-white TV.

That is the reality of industrial standards - you MUST always use what your customers are asking for. Being a fanboy of some looney minority thing is all fine and good and that is how new programmes and apps get started. Reaper started like that and it is now my go-to multi-track audio app (and available on Linux). But you MUST stay mainstream if you want customers.

That is an important point and one we all have to learn sooner or later!

Linux is not a minority operating system at all. It has a market share of 96% of the top 1 million servers. 90% of cloud services are run on Linux.

 

[NickGrogan]

@gpietersz - I fail to see why you need to hijack this thread so that you can evangelise here about an OS that is used by less than 2% of the market.

I shall worry about Linux when a customer comes to me and says "I have to use Linux because Avid / Adobe / Vegas / Nuendo only runs on a Linux system. As nearly all US productions are made using Avids (ProTools and Media Composer) and on this side of The Pond we tend to use either Avid or Adobe Premier / After Effects or Vegas with audio in ProTools or Reaper, we have to have systems that can run ALL these applications and not just one or two.

In all my puff, I have never had anyone come to me expecting me to provide them with a Linux-based system. Apple, yes. PC, yes. Linux? WTF is that? Something for the nerds?

It only needs one - yes just ONE - vital task in any industrial process to be unavailable on a specific system and that system is automatically out of the window. You started to bang on about film and TV and I have NEVER seen anyone use anything except Apples and PCs. And I have been in this game since the days of black-and-white TV.

That is the reality of industrial standards - you MUST always use what your customers are asking for. Being a fanboy of some looney minority thing is all fine and good and that is how new programmes and apps get started. Reaper started like that and it is now my go-to multi-track audio app (and available on Linux). But you MUST stay mainstream if you want customers.

That is an important point and one we all have to learn sooner or later!

Digital Domain - James Cameron's company used Unix for Titanic
Pixar - use Unix for everything they make
Industrial Light and Magic - Star Wars - Unix
The Academy (as in the Oscars) Software Foundation - https://www.aswf.io/ - dedicated to promoting open-source software

 

[japancool]

My OS's dad is bigger than your OS's dad.

 

[Nico Albrecht]

Linux is not a minority operating system at all

Linux is a very minority system on desktops with a market share of 1% at best. OP question is about a Desktop device not some Server, NAS or mobile OS.

The Byre was very generous giving the fanboys a full 2% on desktop Linux installs. That's a 100% increase of user bases he gave you. Respect is due where respect is due to give a 100% increase to 2% user base on Linux Desktop. .

Digital Domain - James Cameron's company used Unix for Titanic
Pixar -

Depends how you wanna see it. The actual work was done on SGI and NT workstations after all was done they send it to Linux cluster setups for crunching the numbers. Created not on Linux but rendered on Linux. Same today it's either Windows workstations or Mac and than crunching numbers is done by clusters. These clusters might run a UNIX / Linux OS but it would be so heavily tweaked that it doesn't resemble a normal Distro setup.

Pixar - use Unix for everything they make

Makes sense when they started doing business they had Jobs on board that just left Apple. Using Mac OS or Windows while Jobs at the helm was around would make none sense for him.

Foundation - https://www.aswf.io/ -

Oh boy this project is like Kim Jong-un advocating for human rights and democracy. The movie and music industries is a very hostile industry and will enforce copy rights at any giving cost. This project only exist to make the point that they have some thing like that but in reality it has very little use. It's like Apple getting under pressure for blocking 3rd party repairs and having now an " Apple "repair program whee you can buy parts and some other stuff. This project is a joke at best but no Apple can go back and say look we have this awesome new program.

You can run Windows GUI apps on Linux using a VM too

of course you can but pass through of any custom hardware solutions is iffy at best. Not sure how far gaming goes in VM. GPU pass though seems to be better but doubt it is near enough for a modern game. FreeSync or G Sync on VM I doubt it.



Time to open a new threat in time out next week and fight it out there .


For now it was clear from the beginning without even mentioning it that this is a gaming system build req. a Windows OS license. There was no need to even mention Linux at any given stage.

Linux users / fanboys are like vegans, Nobody cares about them but they both have to tell you every 5 min they are vegan or use Linux with no regards to the problem that needs to be solved.
If you ever wanna be online abused I'd rec. posting a silliy Linux beginner question in a hardcore Linux forum. The abuse you will get is astonishing.

My OS's dad is bigger than your OS's dad.

I figured this would be over your head. After all the plastic toy industry is not nearly as complex as the OS industry.

 

[Nico Albrecht]

I would say the real problem are MS and Apple fanbois who are unwilling to take facts on board.

If you think the Apple fanboys are completely barking, they are role models of sanity to the loudmouthed Open Sauce religious loonies who are out there. Like many fundamentalists they are totally inflexible — waving a GNU as if it were handed down by God to Richard Stallman

 

[The Byre]

The Byre was very generous giving the fanboys a full 2% on desktop Linux installs. That's a 100% increase of user bases he gave you.

I shall bow to your superior knowledge on all things IT. I heard 2% from a Linux Evangelist and I think he may have been biased - who knows!

But I'm always up for a silly bun-fight! And no bun-fight is sillier than "My OS is better than your OS!"

But the fact remains that every industry has its standards and as we seem to have slipped into discussing the Hollywood film industry here, it is dominated by people using Avids systems on Apples. Yes, some render farms will use something else for offline processes, but the industry standard over there is all Avids on Apples. (I wish it was not, because I dislike the Avid company and its software - but that's the way it is and I have to like it or lump it!)

One does get to see some PCs being used, but not as much as in mainland Europe where all sorts of different bits of software get used. But it is always either one or the other. Mac or PC. Render farms may differ occasionally, but that is a very specialised offline activity.

This adherence to set standards in any given industry - in this case, film - goes deep. Even scripts MUST be written in a certain way (called The Hollywood Standard) and they MUST be written using the programme Final Draft.

If a script is written using something else, it just gets rejected out of hand - end of story! It matters not who wrote it or how good it is - all that is totally irrelevant. If it ain't in Final Draft nobody will be able to read it and nobody can load it onto their tablet on-set and the director will not be able to make changes to the script or add notes if it is in some other programme.

And there you have the problem for the evangelist for using non-standard systems or software. For example, I use Reaper for audio. I tend to evangelise about Reaper because it is just better - cheaper - faster - more customisable - adaptable - versatile than any other software out there by a country mile. But it is not the standard. (Well, not yet anyway!)

And there is the fanboy's problem. Even if Linux is better, faster, etc., etc. and I am perfectly prepared to believe that it may the best thing ever invented for the desktop computer (I wouldn't know!) key processes cannot happen on a Linux system because the software ain't there! Yes, some fantastic programmes are available for Linux, Reaper and DaVinci-Resolve for example, but key unavoidable steps are only on PC and Mac.

 

[samueldaisi]

Sorry for the late reply, but I’d like to give my two cents. When it comes to a new system, I'd actually recommend going for Windows 10 over Windows 11. Windows 10 is a tried-and-true OS that's proven to be reliable. Windows 11, while exciting, still has some compatibility issues and controversial points. So, to play it safe, Windows 10 might be the better choice.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

As someone tried to rebirth this topic, I will comment that W10 reaches end of life soon, so everyone should be looking at moving away from it!

 

[martin_shl]

I was reluctant to upgrade, but needed a new laptop and it came with Windows 11. I tried it and made lists of all the things I liked and didn't like. The list of likes won

 

[Kerwin]

I'm mainly an Apple or Linux person but have a Windows 11 laptop and I find it perfectly easy to use. There are a few annoyances but overall I quite like it. Certainly better than Windows 8!