Buying Windows 10 or 11 for new system

UKSBD

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  • Dec 30, 2005
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    My lad is building a new system

    What is the best way of installing Windows 10 or 11 on it (and which is most sensible version to install)

    It's like a minefield trying to find a copy, he seems to think he can get if from numerous places under £20, proper official versions I have seen vary from £85 to £100 (for 10)

    I want him to get it legally, where is best place to buy it from and should he expect to pay close to £100?

    It's not an upgrade or moving from another PC it's a new install

    These are 3 I'm looking at

    https://www.scan.co.uk/products/windows-11-home-edition-64-bit-english-international-usb windows 11 £110 from Scan who I trust

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Windows-Home-English-International-Download/dp/B012U8Y2BM/ £99 from Amazon direct who I trust


    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Windows-10-Home-bit-USB/dp/B08TWT3F4D/ £85.00 from Amazon marketplace don't know if I trust

    What would you do?
     
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    UKSBD

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    Hello,

    We have used this company for internal devices before -

    Much more affordable than the above options.

    Yeah, I've seen loads of places like that, but how do they do it?

    Are they genuine installs for brand new systems, or are they really for systems that already have an old version of windows on them?
     
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    UKSBD

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    I see they say

    "This product is OEM, and the licence governing the installation and use may not convey the same rights as a full retail package. Prospective purchasers should make themselves aware of any such restrictions before purchasing."

    Which to me reads like, "
    we can legally sell this to you, but it is up to you to check whether you can legally use it or not"
     
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    UKSBD

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    Reading a bit more and I found this

    "What ive been told is that these keys are either for computers from manufacturers like you mentioned or for the employees of companies which receive them in bulk to use as employees, they should never be sold, and technically the license isnt valid for personal/comercial use outside their intended specific use. Meaning, they activate since microsoft has a hard time controlling them, but the license not being tied to a purchased hardware or your work isnt legally valid.

    So what Im told is that they work, but they arent legit and selling them in countries that have copyright laws is shady and maybe a crime."

    Which is about what I assumed

    Also saw this,

    It strikes me, everyone buys these, but they are not strictly legal
     
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    DontAsk

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    I used to get licenses from my employer. They bough machines from Dell pre-installed but then had a corporate license agreement with Microsoft so the license keys on the machines were redundant. They were quite happy to allow this.

    I believe at least some of these cheap license come by similar routes.
     
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    japancool

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    I reckon, if you're going down the "not strictly legal" route, you might as well go down the "totally illegal" route. I don't there is such a concept as "partly legal".

    Of course, you don't actually have to activate Windows 10, and carry on using it in trial mode. You lose access to some features, but it still works and you still get most updates.
     
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    UKSBD

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    I reckon, if you're going down the "not strictly legal" route, you might as well go down the "totally illegal" route. I don't there is such a concept as "partly legal".

    Of course, you don't actually have to activate Windows 10, and carry on using it in trial mode. You lose access to some features, but it still works and you still get most updates.

    Yeah, if it was me, I would pay the £100 and buy it from actually Amazon or someone like Scan

    I wouldn't even buy the £85 version from the Amazon Marketplace seller (especially when you look up the company selling it)

    No way I would buy the £17.00 version.

    Trouble is that lad says I am a Boomer and everyone just buys the £20 keys :(
     
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    I reckon, if you're going down the "not strictly legal" route, you might as well go down the "totally illegal" route. I don't there is such a concept as "partly legal".

    Of course, you don't actually have to activate Windows 10, and carry on using it in trial mode. You lose access to some features, but it still works and you still get most updates.
    With an operating system you really dont want to bootleg a hacked install... There could be all sorts of nasty built in. So no dont go down the totally illegal, the partially legal route will always win...

    At the end of the day if your license of windows gets activated your golden. No one is going to chase you in any legal capacity.

    The funny thing is my windows license was a OEM (maybe not legal) key I bought 4 of them for £10 way back in windows 8.1 days... over time (years) 2 of the keys got blocked by Microsoft, each time I just entered one of my other keys I bought (glad I bought a few)... then my third key stayed activated... I converted it to a Win 10 key when windows 10 came out no problems (luckily) I even then converted it into my windows account later on, and then upgraded successfully to windows 11 and its all still valid and doesnt say its OEM anymore - which is interesting to say the least...

    Anyway these sorts of keys are rarely blocked by Microsoft. And if it does get deactivated at some point, just go buy another key for £10.
     
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    Nico Albrecht

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    Are they genuine installs for brand new systems,
    They are not correctly licensed and must be only sold as a system. System builder buy them in for around £2.75 from Microsoft. They must be sold with new hardware only such as laptops and pcs and are not retail keys. Sometimes you can buy them bundle with Mainboard plus cpu bundle
     
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    estwig

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    Back in the day when times was hard, I was running windows, ms office, autocad, photoshop, etc, all dodgy copies downloaded from a private BitTorrent site.

    It all worked, but the hassle of keeping it running, dealing with buggy apps and installing little scripts to deal with license updates, made it all a bit of a nightmare.

    Now I just bend over the table and let Bill Gates give it to me!!
     
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    I believe it is legal to resell pre-used keys, if the hardware has been decommissioned.
     
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    UKSBD

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    I believe it is legal to resell pre-used keys, if the hardware has been decommissioned.
    I think that is only when it is a bought copy which is installed on the hardware.

    Ie if you buy a full copy, install on a device, you can move it to another device, not if it is pre-installed OEM version on a device though.

    I'm not really concerned on the legalities of selling.

    It's whether it's legal to use I'm concerned about

    It appears a lot of these sellers get away with it by having statements along the lines of "it is up to the end user to determine if they are properly licenced to use this"
     
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    UKSBD

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    Surely the license level is based on the license sold, not how it was sold?
     
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    Bizzy

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    Hi. Depending on what the lad wants to do with the computer, why not install Linux?
    Its free and there are even different styles to choose from.
    I run a business using all free open source software ie libre office, mailcow etc etc.

    For a newbie i would look at linux mint or ubuntu to start with or even pop! OS
     
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    UKSBD

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    We've done it now.

    bought the retail version of Windows 11 from Scan for £110

    Probably could have got it cheaper from elsewhere but at least we are pretty sure it is genuine, will be the proper version and will have no comebacks.
     
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    Nico Albrecht

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    You obviously have not used it lately

    Oh no not the Linux fanboys again.

    There was plenty of discussions about this issues and pretty much the sentiment is Linux sucks for end users and main stream software.

    Biggest issues in Linux:

    - GPU support is poor at best, multiple monitor support is scary at best.
    - Can you game on Linux, this would be insane to even try and very few titles out there via steam that run a bit stable

    - Linux community is very fragmented and aggressive towards each other. Never seen such hostile environment going through Linux forum.

    - Can it run Office, Adobe, AutoCAD or any other decent Video or Music production software - no it can't !

    The open source alternatives are poor at best. Tried them and not impressed. Even the likes of Thunderbird, Libre etc.... It gets somehow the job done but not very nice to use.

    - Printing on Linux don't get me even started. I recon W11 could print out of the box to a dot matrix printer form the 70's with no issues at all.

    Wanna stream and game at the same time you are screwed on Linux in any possible way lagging audio and video and system crashes are just the prelude.....

    Linux is lightyears away from being proper supported and user friendly for the average Joe.

    Why even going through the pain of Linux for end users when W11 is installed in 10 minutes another 10min for drivers and we are good to go to run anything favourite game or productivity software in minutes highly optimized out of the box and very stable.

    I gave some distros a try lately with Steam game install and it was a pile of shit at best = user experience was as low at it can get for even simple daily task on Windows.

    OP good job for buying a correctly licensed Windows retail license and sorry for hijacking the Linux fanboy post.
     
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    Bizzy

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    Oh no not the Linux fanboys again.

    There was plenty of discussions about this issues and pretty much the sentiment is Linux sucks for end users and main stream software.

    Biggest issues in Linux:

    - GPU support is poor at best, multiple monitor support is scary at best.
    - Can you game on Linux, this would be insane to even try and very few titles out there via steam that run a bit stable

    - Linux community is very fragmented and aggressive towards each other. Never seen such hostile environment going through Linux forum.

    - Can it run Office, Adobe, AutoCAD or any other decent Video or Music production software - no it can't !

    The open source alternatives are poor at best. Tried them and not impressed. Even the likes of Thunderbird, Libre etc.... It gets somehow the job done but not very nice to use.

    - Printing on Linux don't get me even started. I recon W11 could print out of the box to a dot matrix printer form the 70's with no issues at all.

    Wanna stream and game at the same time you are screwed on Linux in any possible way lagging audio and video and system crashes are just the prelude.....

    Linux is lightyears away from being proper supported and user friendly for the average Joe.

    Why even going through the pain of Linux for end users when W11 is installed in 10 minutes another 10min for drivers and we are good to go to run anything favourite game or productivity software in minutes highly optimized out of the box and very stable.

    I gave some distros a try lately with Steam game install and it was a pile of **** at best = user experience was as low at it can get for even simple daily task on Windows.

    OP good job for buying a correctly licensed Windows retail license and sorry for hijacking the Linux fanboy post.

    Not sure you could call me a fanboy but hey ho

    You say you have tried linux but have you really?
    Or did you give up because it was too hard for you?

    The OP never said what his lad wanted to do with the machine. He only mentioned his concerns over price of licensing.
    I believe my response addressed that and gave a fair alternative for his concerns without assumptions.
    I will let you google the answers to some of your other statements as I think you will be rather surprised.


    To the OP...
    You were right to purchase from a reputable place as at least it gives peace of mind if nothing else.
     
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    gpietersz

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    Surely the license level is based on the license sold, not how it was sold?
    Depends on copyright law. I know that there were US cases where the courts rules licences on physical media could not prevent resale - so an OEM copy on CD could be resold AFAIK (the case was abut music but the same principles apply). I do not know what UK law is on this point.

    OEM Windows licences are VERY cheap. That is why the same PC with Windows is sometimes cheaper than it is with no OS or Linux, because the fees the vendor gets for pre-installing software (from vendors looking to gain users) is smaller than the license cost.

    Big organisations who threaten to move to Linux can wring huge concessions from Microsoft, and I even know of one company who when threatened with being sued for blatantly pirating Window and MS Office, threatened to switch to Linux and MS backed off. It was even publicly MS policy at one point to turn a blind eye to piracy on some countries.
     
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    gpietersz

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    Biggest issues in Linux:

    - GPU support is poor at best, multiple monitor support is scary at best.
    - Can you game on Linux, this would be insane to even try and very few titles out there via steam that run a bit stable

    - Linux community is very fragmented and aggressive towards each other. Never seen such hostile environment going through Linux forum.

    - Can it run Office, Adobe, AutoCAD or any other decent Video or Music production software - no it can't !

    The open source alternatives are poor at best. Tried them and not impressed. Even the likes of Thunderbird, Libre etc.... It gets somehow the job done but not very nice to use.

    - Printing on Linux don't get me even started. I recon W11 could print out of the box to a dot matrix printer form the 70's with no issues at all.

    Wanna stream and game at the same time you are screwed on Linux in any possible way lagging audio and video and system crashes are just the prelude.....

    Linux is lightyears away from being proper supported and user friendly for the average Joe.

    Why even going through the pain of Linux for end users when W11 is installed in 10 minutes another 10min for drivers and we are good to go to run anything favourite game or productivity software in minutes highly optimized out of the box and very stable.

    I gave some distros a try lately with Steam game install and it was a pile of **** at best = user experience was as low at it can get for even simple daily task on Windows.
    Mostly completely wrong.

    Windows is better for gaming.

    There are problems with Nvidia GPU drivers, fine with AMD.

    I plugged a second monitor in to the machine I am typing this on a few days ago and it just worked. I went into settings and configured how I wanted it arranged in a GUI. and that was it. I have had the same experience before.

    The Linux community is not hostile. I have found people extremely helpful.

    No Linux cannot run WIndows only software other than in a VM. ON the other hand WIndows needs to run Linux software badly enough that Microsoft developed an entire specialised VM based system just to run Linux software on Windows.

    On the other hand there are people who use other software that does the same thing, on a professional basis. Given, for example, that people sell £1k + CAD software for Linux I think its safe to assume anyone paying that is professional. As for video production there have been TV series made with software that does run on Linux (Blender) so, again, professional use and a cost taken out of $100m budgets (e.g. Man in the High Castle, $200m for the first two seasons).

    I prefer Thunderbird to Outlook.

    its been more than a decade since I had a problem with printers on Linux.

    My wife and kids have been using Linux for years. All their lives in the case of the kids. My Dad used Linux until my sister got him a new laptop. They find Windows hard to use - its a matter of what you are used to. A lot of people use Chromebooks which are just Linux (and, unlike Android, not just the Linux Kernel, its conventional Linux) - and you can install ChromeOS on PCs now, although its more limited and the experience does not seem any better than a user friendly Linux.

    Installing any OS is potentially painful. I have not had problems with any recent Linux installs, and lots of people have problems installing WIndows. The problem is that people compare pre-installed Windows with installing Linux for themselves. If you want a comparable experience plenty of people sell machines with Linux pre-installed.

    Once installed Linux is less problematic and therefore easier on the average user. WIndows is best for office use where you have an IT department to maintain and fix it.

    Also, its silly to talk about "Linux" generically. As you know there are numerous distros that make different trade offs. Which distro and which desktop environment make huge difference. There are things that exist for geeks, and there are things that exist for average users. I use Manjaro, which I would not recommend for most people.
     
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    Oh no not the Linux fanboys again.

    There was plenty of discussions about this issues and pretty much the sentiment is Linux sucks for end users and main stream software.
    Absolutely agree!

    My simple question is - why do some people get so emotionally het up about which software they use? If they are not spitting feathers over Linux v. Windows, then it's Reaper v. ProTools or Vegas v. Media Composer or some other daft non-issue!
     
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    gpietersz

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    My simple question is - why do some people get so emotionally het up about which software they use? If they are not spitting feathers over Linux v. Windows, then it's Reaper v. ProTools or Vegas v. Media Composer or some other daft non-issue!

    Speaking for myself, in the case of Linux its because people often talk a lot of rubbish about Linux. There are lots of things said in every thread that I know from direct experience are entirely false.

    Why is mainstream good? A Skoda is more mainstream than a Bentley.

    As for the other things, I think its because people identify with particular software they use. Its like supporting a football club. Not something I get - which get emotionally attached to a profit making entertainment business? OK, small local clubs are different, but the big ones (with the most supporters) are just very profitable businesses (for the players, if not always the owners).
     
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    As for video production there have been TV series made with software that does run on Linux (Blender) so, again, professional use and a cost taken out of $100m budgets (e.g. Man in the High Castle, $200m for the first two seasons).
    I hear all sorts of claims like that and when one drills down to reality, it turns out that this or that software or equipment was used only for either a few scenes or for some off-line purpose. Editors stick to tried and tested packages such as Avid Media Composer, Vegas, Premier, or DaVinci-Resolve for very good reasons all to do with compatibility and reliability and scope of the software. The same applies to audio and most other tasks, whether that is boring office work or laying out a newspaper or writing a film script.

    Speaking for myself, in the case of Linux its because people often talk a lot of rubbish about Linux. There are lots of things said in every thread that I know from direct experience are entirely false.
    I do not doubt that for a moment - but the fact that there are dozens of versions means possible confusion and hold-ups.
    Why is mainstream good? A Skoda is more mainstream than a Bentley.
    Having been recently in both, I found that there is very little difference between them - except that the Skoda Superb is more practical and less likely to break down! They are both just VWs with mammary glands attached!
     
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    UKSBD

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    The Windows install was a doodle

    Wish I could say the same about the build

    4 hours of unpacking, sorting, building - No Display message.
    Taking apart again, reinstalling RAM, installing graphics card from another machine, removing battery, putting battery back, reinstalling Ram, finally getting it going.

    Unplug everything, set in position, reconnect, restart - No Display message.
    20 more minutes of reinstalling, head scratching, finally notice we are plugging the monitor in to the Motherboard display port instead of Graphics card :)

    I told him he should have just configured one and had it built, still it was a good learning experience for us both.
     
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    Nico Albrecht

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    The Linux community is not hostile. I have found people extremely helpful.
    Now, Linux community is in the middle of this culture war - and there are some toxic elements now inserted in the various Linux projects - and people trying to enforce code of conduct and push agendas of inclusion.

    The Linux Community argues at one another and can't work together. The Linux Community is not a community, but a cesspool of selfish groups that think they are better than the other. If you guys want to be a community, then set aside your differences and your passion projects, and make ONE Ultimate Linux OS that will be just as easy to use as Windows 10 or 11.

    There are good people out there. You just need to find them. Usually, the ones who can code… who can answer the questions, who actually know and are skilled… those are your stewards and mentors.
     
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    Nico Albrecht

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    are plugging the monitor in to the Motherboard display port instead of Graphics card :)
    We've been all there at some time dealing with internal and external gpu and no video output. Most ready ssytem come with a big warning sticker on them telling where to plug in. This happens more than you think.
     
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    Bizzy

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    You perfectly proofed my point how arrogant the Linux groups are.

    You must be to dump, stupid or too hard if you cant figure it out. Thank you for proving my point.
    The only point I have proved is that its not me that is being arrogant.

    I posted to help the OP, not to start having a go at people who i don't know anything about!!!

    I get it ..... you don't like Linux. Not all Linux users are the same ... just like the fact that not all Windows or mac users are the same.
     
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    IanSuth

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    The only point I have proved is that its not me that is being arrogant.

    I posted to help the OP, not to start having a go at people who i don't know anything about!!!

    I get it ..... you don't like Linux. Not all Linux users are the same ... just like the fact that not all Windows or mac users are the same.
    I use or have used them all

    Windows from Win2 (although i preferred Gem), Linux as a user since we have a redhat 4.2 server for email in the office.

    I am the weirdo - I am a user who will use things but have little interest in what is under the hood. Most of the times Linux does what I want, I was given a laptop to use for the mgt of a rugby team I am involved with, it was blank so I put Mint on it and it just worked (and laptops were the thing linux was iffiest with a while back).

    Saying w11 will deal with any printer is patently false - Windows HATES old hardware, we had a lovely HP laserjetII in the office we used for certain tasks, we had to bin it when we moved off XP as it could not be made to run on the newer machines and the reason we wanted it had moved to those. For gaming i wouldn't go near Linux with someone else's bargepole

    It is all horses for courses - use whatever does the job for the cheapest overall lifetime cost of ownership (including familiarisation if you shift tech stack)
     
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    UKSBD

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    I don't feel quite so bad about the time and stress it took building it now.

    Configured a system virtually the same as what we built - £1670 (with no graphics card)

    What his cost = £1225

    Problem is he said, seeing as he's saved £400 he deserves a new monitor and spent £250 on that.

    Within the next 6 months it will be another £500+ on a graphics card :(
     
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    Editors stick to tried and tested packages such as Avid Media Composer, Vegas, Premier, or DaVinci-Resolve for very good reasons all to do with compatibility and reliability and scope of the software.
    3 of those 4 were originally Unix apps and still are.

    Within the next 6 months it will be another £500+ on a graphics card :(

    Nvidia RTX 3090 TI Founders Edition - £1500​


     
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