Business account - which bank?

[FreddyG]

We were with RBS and then with Santandair - both now charge for business accounts. We do not require any fancy services or any overdraft facility.

What is out there that is free and online?

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

Mettle.
Revolut.
Starling.

Plus others!

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

We were with RBS and then with Santandair - both now charge for business accounts. We do not require any fancy services or any overdraft facility.

What is out there that is free and online?

TSB offer 30 months free banking.

 

[DontAsk]

Judging by a few posts on here, you get what you pay for with some of the free accounts.

Caveat Emptor.

 

[Newchodge]

I have used Starling since 2020. No issues. no fees

 

[potato632]

I'd go with a modern bank that has no fees and does not charge FX fees

Mettle = free access to Freeagent which may or may not be useful
Starling
Monzo

What I like about Monzo (and probably Starling) is that I can actually see my card number in the app, in case I need to enter it online somewhere (no one carries physical cards these days!)

Mettle does not offer this basic feature..

But either way, having more than one bank is necessary for redundancy

 

[fisicx]

(no one carries physical cards these days!

Yes they do. I’d surmise most people carry multiple cards.

 

[potato632]

Yes they do. I’d surmise most people carry multiple cards.

Before covid i'd agree, but these days lots of people don't bother carrying any

Once they're added in Apple Pay or Google Pay what's the point? There is no spending limit with contactless and it doesn't require any physical card to use once added

 

[Ozzy]

most people carry multiple cards

In my household, my wife is the only person who carries a card. My son, my daughter and myself only carry our phone and use that to pay for anything.
A small cohort to test, but that is 25% carry a card others don't carry a wallet, person or any cards.

 

[Ozzy]

both now charge for business accounts

A different perspective, and my personal and my primary business banking is with NatWest (primary because we have spare funds invested via Flagstone) and it gives me a sense of security paying for a service. Especially as many of the Fintech banks are running at losses kept afloat by VC funding, I feel more comfortable having my money in a bank charging me for the service.

 

[fisicx]

In my household, my wife is the only person who carries a card. My son, my daughter and myself only carry our phone and use that to pay for anything.
A small cohort to test, but that is 25% carry a card others don't carry a wallet, person or any cards.

We were out with friends at the weekend (about 20 of us) and everyone paid with a card. We actually discussed this over lunch. Most carried at least two cards (debit and credit) and some also have a Monzo card.

There are a number of times when touchless fails or isn’t accepted (car parks are really flakey) and you need to insert a card.

 

[Mark T Jones]

We were out with friends at the weekend (about 20 of us) and everyone paid with a card. We actually discussed this over lunch. Most carried at least two cards (debit and credit) and some also have a Monzo card.

There are a number of times when touchless fails or isn’t accepted (car parks are really flakey) and you need to insert a card.

Do you have 19 friends!!!???

 

[Mark T Jones]

Before covid i'd agree, but these days lots of people don't bother carrying any

Once they're added in Apple Pay or Google Pay what's the point? There is no spending limit with contactless and it doesn't require any physical card to use once added

What's better or worse is a separate debate.

The point here is that people do carry/use cards, so from a business perspective it would be foolish to ignore them; unless you are specifically targeting those who don't.

 

[fisicx]

Do you have 19 friends!!!???

When I say friends, what I really mean is my wife has lots of friends and I’m permitted to sit quietly in the corner

 

[Mark T Jones]

A different perspective, and my personal and my primary business banking is with NatWest (primary because we have spare funds invested via Flagstone) and it gives me a sense of security paying for a service. Especially as many of the Fintech banks are running at losses kept afloat by VC funding, I feel more comfortable having my money in a bank charging me for the service.

'A lot more tech than fin'.

Even the physical challenger banks - EG Metro - are finding it tough to make a real mark now the novelty of dog bowls has worn off.

In reality, the online-only banks are doing the basics whilst completely ignoring anything that stretches them.

Like you, I'm going all out to support established, traditional banks, even if I don't especially like them.

 

[fisicx]

the place we visited had a ticket machine in the carpark. You could use their app but the 3G signal meant downloading the app wasn’t going to happen. It did have contactless payment but the bloke with his phone couldn’t get it to work. I shoved my card in the slot and had my ticket in seconds.

I agree you can have your card on your phone but when contactless fails what’s your plan B?

 

[FreddyG]

Phones - so what happens when the phone stops working?

A different perspective, and my personal and my primary business banking is with NatWest (primary because we have spare funds invested via Flagstone) and it gives me a sense of security paying for a service. Especially as many of the Fintech banks are running at losses kept afloat by VC funding, I feel more comfortable having my money in a bank charging me for the service.

We do not want, nor do we need, investment facilities, overdrafts, bookkeeping integration, multiple currencies, dog bowls, or any other silly gimmicks. Some specific services do all those things for free and on an international basis. Some banks will lend against real assets such as gold, silver and art.

There are also banks that pay you interest on your positive balance on a current account - for a high street bank to charge me money for giving them my money to play with - and thereby generate more money - shows that they are either greedy or have not mastered basic arithmetic.

The days of paper money, local branches and all that guff are over.

 

[fisicx]

There is no spending limit with contactless and it doesn't require any physical card to use once added

I’ve just checked, the spending limit for virtual cards depends on the bank. Some still have a max of £100.

 

[Newchodge]

Phones - so what happens when the phone stops working?


We do not want, nor do we need, investment facilities, overdrafts, bookkeeping integration, multiple currencies, dog bowls, or any other silly gimmicks. Some specific services do all those things for free and on an international basis. Some banks will lend against real assets such as gold, silver and art.

There are also banks that pay you interest on your positive balance on a current account - for a high street bank to charge me money for giving them my money to play with - and thereby generate more money - shows that they are either greedy or have not mastered basic arithmetic.

The days of paper money, local branches and all that guff are over.

1 thing about Starling was (and probbaly still is) only Dirctors (verified on CH) can use the account. I dont't know whether your Mrs Moneypenny would need access?

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

no one carries physical cards these days

It is probably a generational thing.

I have most of my cards on the phone, however, I prefer to use cards - the phone is a backup!

 

[FreddyG]

Our Mrs Moneypenny is a director and CFO and wife. I stay away from such things. Dogs, horses, employees and other animals do not have or need access to banking facilities.

 

[DontAsk]

Before covid i'd agree, but these days lots of people don't bother carrying any

"lots" != "no one"

Once they're added in Apple Pay or Google Pay what's the point? There is no spending limit with contactless and it doesn't require any physical card to use once added

Wrong again. You may be able to exceed it using biometrics on a 'phone, but it depends on the merchant and the card issuer.

 

[wayzgoose]

Co-op do free business banking.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Co-op do free business banking.

As someone who banks with Smile (a Coop brand) I'd run a mile

We still have a joint account with them ,for the simple reason that it's a pain to change. Anything that's more than simple electronic payment we do from other accounts. Because I can guarantee that Coop with f**k it up.

And since they actively withdrew people from the equation, speaking to a human will make HMRC look accessible...

 

[Ozzy]

for a high street bank to charge me money for giving them my money to play with - and thereby generate more money - shows that they are either greedy or have not mastered basic arithmetic.

Didn't the UK implement ring-fencing in 2019?

 

[fisicx]

And you can claim back the banking charges when you do your accounts. So it's not really an issue.

 

[Newchodge]

And you can claim back the banking charges when you do your accounts. So it's not really an issue.

Other than affecting profit levels. No one reclaims money spent from HMRTC. They reduce their tax birden by the taxable amount of the expense!

 

[FreddyG]

Didn't the UK implement ring-fencing in 2019?

They did indeed, but the way I understand it, it separates investment banking from retail banking. It did not prevent the banks from lending, using fractional reserve banking to create such things as mortgages and car loans - i.e., creating currency. I could be wrong, of course! I may live here, but I don't invest here.

 

[potato632]

I’ve just checked, the spending limit for virtual cards depends on the bank. Some still have a max of £100.

The £100 contactless limit is for physical cards - Google/Apple pay has no limit

"lots" != "no one"


Wrong again. You may be able to exceed it using biometrics on a 'phone, but it depends on the merchant and the card issuer.

It's correct that retailers are able to set a limit on Google/Apple pay but i've yet to find one

In order to use Google/Apple pay, people are required to use biometrics or phone PIN so it's as secure or more secure than a regular physical bank card & PIN. There's no logical reason to enforce a limit purely due to it being contactless imo but i'm sure there are some people out there that think differently

I paid a £5k car deposit using my phone's contactless a few years ago

As a backup it's never a bad idea to slip a £20 behind the phone, in the case

 

[fisicx]

Checked with my bank. £100 limit on my virtual card.

I’m sure there are some banks without limits but that doesn’t apply to all.

 

[potato632]

Checked with my bank. £100 limit on my virtual card.

I’m sure there are some banks without limits but that doesn’t apply to all.

Did you specify Google or Apple pay? Which bank is it?

I'd be surprised if you were unable to spend more than £100 using contactless on your phone!

 

[fisicx]

Apple Pay and Halifax. £100 According to the app.

However, it’s all academic as I prefer to use my card.

 

[Nathanto]

Yes they do. I’d surmise most people carry multiple cards.

I sort of agree with @potato632, obviously not "no-one" but certainly less and less people carry any cards with them while practically everyone carries their phone 24/7.

We took my 78 year old mum out to a garden centre recently and I was very impressed when she got to the till, whipped out her iPhone and nonchalantly tapped the card reader to pay...

My girlfriend actually got caught out with this the other day. We live rurally so she made a special trip to the nearest town to get some cash from an ATM... only to find that she was so used to using her phone to pay for everything that she hadn't taken her physical debit card with her so it was a wasted trip.

I can actually see my card number in the app, in case I need to enter it online somewhere (no one carries physical cards these days!)

That would be a great feature! I also got caught out recently when we were in London; we were just chilling taking each day as it comes, found ourselves in Kensington and decided we wanted to go to the Churchill War Rooms.

Checked online on my phone and could see it was popular and only limited availability left so tried to order tickets only to find that they didn't accept Google or Apple Pay, you had to manually enter card details which I didn't know from memory and none of my apps would show me the full card number.

Annoyingly by the time we got back to the hotel later that day all tickets had been sold for the next 36 hours so we weren't able to visit during our trip. On the plus side it's a good excuse for another trip down to the capital at some point in the near future.

 

[Newchodge]

I sort of agree with @potato632, obviously not "no-one" but certainly less and less people carry any cards with them while practically everyone carries their phone 24/7.

We took my 78 year old mum out to a garden centre recently and I was very impressed when she got to the till, whipped out her iPhone and nonchalantly tapped the card reader to pay...

My girlfriend actually got caught out with this the other day. We live rurally so she made a special trip to the nearest town to get some cash from an ATM... only to find that she was so used to using her phone to pay for everything that she hadn't taken her physical debit card with her so it was a wasted trip.



That would be a great feature! I also got caught out recently when we were in London; we were just chilling taking each day as it comes, found ourselves in Kensington and decided we wanted to go to the Churchill War Rooms.

Checked online on my phone and could see it was popular and only limited availability left so tried to order tickets only to find that they didn't accept Google or Apple Pay, you had to manually enter card details which I didn't know from memory and none of my apps would show me the full card number.

Annoyingly by the time we got back to the hotel later that day all tickets had been sold for the next 36 hours so we weren't able to visit during our trip. On the plus side it's a good excuse for another trip down to the capital at some point in the near future.

Fewer amd fewer people may be using cards, but there is still a very high number who do so. Based on observation of transactions I see, I would say 15% are phone payments. I don't use phone payments at all but, if I did, I would always carry my cards as well. What if you run out of charge?

 

[Nathanto]

Fewer and fewer people may be using cards, but there is still a very high number who do so. Based on observation of transactions I see, I would say 15% are phone payments. I don't use phone payments at all but, if I did, I would always carry my cards as well. What if you run out of charge?

It's interesting that we both have different observations which suggests that different socio-economic groups have very different attitudes towards contactless.

Perhaps card use is more prevalent in industrial towns and inner cities? The types of place I visit and hence observe others is country pubs, restaurants, artisan eateries and shops, basically touristy places where I end up paying more than I really want to but have resigned myself to "I may be dead tomorrow so may as well enjoy myself today".

It's not something I've particularly paid attention to previously but from memory I'd say the vast majority of transactions I see others perform are with their phone and not a physical card. I'd go so far as to guess it's 85% phone payments and only 15% card/cash so the exact opposite of your experience.

We're off to Stratford at the weekend and then the Welsh coast the following week so I'll pay more attention while out to see if my memory is supported by reality or if it's just confirmation bias.

There will always be times when both cards and contactless don't work for some reason (which is why I always leave the house with cash in my pocket) but it's been years since one of us ran out of charge on our phones - is that even still a thing?

 

[MikeJ]

In my household, my wife is the only person who carries a card. My son, my daughter and myself only carry our phone and use that to pay for anything.
A small cohort to test, but that is 25% carry a card others don't carry a wallet, person or any cards.

A month or so ago we had a long discussion about whether cash was needed anymore. We've clearly moved on in the intervening time.

 

[Newchodge]

It's interesting that we both have different observations which suggests that different socio-economic groups have very different attitudes towards contactless.

Perhaps card use is more prevalent in industrial towns and inner cities? The types of place I visit and hence observe others is country pubs, restaurants, artisan eateries and shops, basically touristy places where I end up paying more than I really want to but have resigned myself to "I may be dead tomorrow so may as well enjoy myself today".

It's not something I've particularly paid attention to previously but from memory I'd say the vast majority of transactions I see others perform are with their phone and not a physical card. I'd go so far as to guess it's 85% phone payments and only 15% card/cash so the exact opposite of your experience.

We're off to Stratford at the weekend and then the Welsh coast the following week so I'll pay more attention while out to see if my memory is supported by reality or if it's just confirmation bias.

There will always be times when both cards and contactless don't work for some reason (which is why I always leave the house with cash in my pocket) but it's been years since one of us ran out of charge on our phones - is that even still a thing?

Are you suggesting I frequent industrial towns and inner cities? Huh! Actually the location of my observations is an ex mining small town in the north east, and many of the people I see are not very young, and, I would suggest, most left school at 16. So you may well have a point.

 

[Nathanto]

Are you suggesting I frequent industrial towns and inner cities? Huh! Actually the location of my observations is an ex mining small town in the north east, and many of the people I see are not very young, and, I would suggest, most left school at 16. So you may well have a point.

Ha ha, I'm a working class lad from Grimsby myself (and yes my dad worked on the trawlers at one time which is all most people know about Grimsby ) which is what made me realise there probably is a difference between Grimsby-folk and say Cotswolds-folk in what mobile they have and how they use it.

Having said that, mobile phone contactless is one of those things that once you've used it you never go back so its use is only ever going to grow exponentially, to the obvious detriment of physical card usage.

For example, as other have discussed, apart from the general convenience of not having to carry a physical wallet around there is also the card limit bonus; my main physical credit card has a £100 limit if I use that contactless but the exact same card loaded on to my phone has a £20,000 contactless limit. While it's a little scary the first time you spend several thousand just by tapping your phone, you quickly appreciate the benefit, especially when you get immediate confirmation on your phone of exactly how much you have just been charged.

So in my view even "up north" it won't be much longer before paying by mobile phone will be as commonplace as using your mobile to order a taxi or a takeaway delivered to your door.

 

[fisicx]

Having said that, mobile phone contactless is one of those things that once you've used it you never go back so its use is only ever going to grow exponentially, to the obvious detriment of physical card usage.

Maybe, maybe not. I’ve used it a number of times but have gone back to using a card.

And I carry my wallet because it has things like my bus pass, driving license and NT card.

Nothing wrong with both camps. The discussion began when Mr Potato said no one carries cards anymore. Which is clearly untrue statement.

 

[Newchodge]

So in my view even "up north" it won't be much longer before paying by mobile phone will be as commonplace as using your mobile to order a taxi or a takeaway delivered to your door.

I tried to order a taxi on my mobile phone, for a friend, last week. Failed completely. The app, once I had downloaded it, said it was offering the trip to drivers, but none of them wanted it. If I could have used my phone for its main purpose, the person on the phone would have told me they had nothing available for an hour. Far more useful and simple. I have deletd the app and won't use it again. If I want a takeaway delivered to my door, I ring them.