Breaking SEO News on Paid Links...........

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R

RayB

  • #1
    ..............From the horses mouth.

    Matt Cutts has posted one of his most telling posts on the subject of paid links for a while. Read it here

    Read what you will, but the message is clear to me - don't buy links

    An even more powerful message, and this is where he has been really clever, is - gaming the engines can virtually kill people - in the the extreme.

    The first few comments are telling too..............;)
     
    J

    JustOneUK

  • #5
    He really does talk utter crap. It proves how much Google is struggling with their algo.

    He's showing a blog entry that has a link on it to another site... why isn't it the OTHER site he's showing?.. the one which apparently gets the link juice?

    oops, It's there... but I have no problem with it. In fact I'm surprised it hasn't got adsense on it. :)
     
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    R

    RayB

  • #6
    JustOneUK said:
    He really does talk utter crap. It proves how much Google is struggling with their algo.

    He's showing a blog entry that has a link on it to another site... why isn't it the OTHER site he's showing?.. the one which apparently gets the link juice?
    Click to expand...

    I'm just being controversial.............;)

    Also, it seems clear to me that the site selling the links is the subject..........
     
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    ken_uk

    ken_uk

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  • #7
    Will be interesting to see how this develops, it could put a rapid stop to the idea I had for rapid submission, as that was a charity related idea, that may not be possible if I cant get the money for hosting via a few links onsite... (ps not talking about the in post type links he is on about, just a few footer ads)
     
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    J

    JustOneUK

  • #8
    Here's my reply to Matt Cutts, (not sure if he will add it to his blog this time)



    Dave (original) are you related to Matt? Everything he posts seems to have something to do with you.

    I think the site shown is fine, frankly I am genuinely surprised that it's not showing adsense.

    So what do you recommend Matt? what is the answer that you are pushing for with all these posts?
    Every website sits and waits to build organic links? whilst it's competitors are out there buying them and getting vast amounts of traffic (because you can't get anywhere now-a-days without paying for exposure) - remember adsense?....

    Why do you sell links to all those crap sites?????????????????????????


    :)
    what d'ya reckon? will he add it?
     
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    R

    RayB

  • #9
    This reply from Matt was very good IMO:

    Ray Burn, my hope was that a real-world example would help make the point. I’m glad you agree
    Click to expand...

    But what do I know ;)


    JustOneUK said:
    Here's my reply to Matt Cutts, (not sure if he will add it to his blog this time)



    Dave (original) are you related to Matt? Everything he posts seems to have something to do with you.

    I think the site shown is fine, frankly I am genuinely surprised that it's not showing adsense.

    So what do you recommend Matt? what is the answer that you are pushing for with all these posts?
    Every website sits and waits to build organic links? whilst it's competitors are out there buying them and getting vast amounts of traffic (because you can't get anywhere now-a-days without paying for exposure) - remember adsense?....

    Why do you sell links to all those crap sites?????????????????????????


    :)
    what d'ya reckon? will he add it?
    Click to expand...
     
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    ken_uk

    ken_uk

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  • #13
    So people could say the fee they charge for a paid footer link for example is the review fee, and it is reviewed each month to ensure it is still meets the criteria?

    Meanwhile, hadn't everyone better remove all those signature links in this forum, those are paid links - you can only get them if they are paid for, and the directory entries in the members directory, as I dont recall seeing any sign of them having to be reviewed, and they are paid for...

    And will all those sites out there that depend on a few paid link ads (footer style, not in post rubbish) to survive, will they probably end up having to shut down.... Leaving only the bigger players in the market.
     
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    R

    RayB

  • #15
    In particular, if we have any link sellers here:

    Q: Is that why we've seen some sites that sell links receive lower PageRank in the Google toolbar?
    A: Yes. If a site is selling links, that can affect our opinion about the value of that site or cause us to lose trust in that site.
    Click to expand...


    Right, I'm back to building content, as before................
     
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    ken_uk

    ken_uk

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  • #16
    So all link sellers have to either remove the links or re-code their site to no follow it, or redirect through a robot.txt restricted page.

    What happened to googles rule - build sites for the user, not the search engine.....
     
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    ken_uk

    ken_uk

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  • #18
    Many people that sell links manually check all the links to ensure they do 'vote' for them, and their not viagra, casino, brain tumour magic pills type links. They refuse any they do not agree with.

    You tend to have more control over a paid link from a good seller than you do from adsense, which seems to publish all sorts of stuff.

    Ok adsense does not 'vote' in the it links direct sense, but to a *user* the link is on a persons site, and counts as a vote from that site in their mind quite often.

    The end result is the same, whether they get their through the serps, or direct from a adsense ad, if they land on junk, they land on junk. Adsense ads are bought, just like any other ad.

    Paid directories votes are slanted/bought in the fact that only the people that can afford the submission fee ever get a chance to be listed.

    What about any direct links on any google pages linking to companies they use as examples (ie people doing well with adwords, or google checkout, or similar) is slanted/bought in a way as you have to pay google to use that service in the first place to stand a chance of getting the link. Dont pay, no chance of a link..... A little like a paid link lottery (with low odds).

    Altering how you code a link, means altering your site, ergo writing (at least part of) the site for the search engine, not the user.

    I have had many users complain about the adsense ads (hence I reduced the amount) but no complaints about a handful of footer links yet........

    Guess I will wait and see if matt replies, not holding my breath though..
     
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    An Oasis

    An Oasis

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  • #20
    sirearl said:
    Mills and Boon starring Matt Cutts

    no one has a name like that :rolleyes:

    Earl
    Click to expand...

    LOL Nice one Earl - sheeesh I'm seriously starting to take a dislike to M.C... his blog has really started to take on that nasty whiney, preachy... yuk.

    Anyone every listened to M.C. talking to Danny S, so funny, both talk quickly and have very high pitched voices spurring each other to new octaves, damn funny.
     
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    ken_uk

    ken_uk

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  • #22
    Its a little ironic that on matts blog, he links to the google blog post about this
    http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2007/12/information-about-buying-and-selling.html

    on that page, the first link I clicked chose to click on the

    October 2007: Google provided comments for a Forbes article titled "Google Purges the Payola".
    Click to expand...
    link which leads to
    http://www.forbes.com/2007/10/02/internet-paid-search-tech-cx_ag_1003google.html

    first brings up a full page ad for samsung HDTV.......... before taking you to the article.

    It may not be passing link juice, but its bound to get a shed load of hits considering its linked to by google now, on that page....
     
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    ken_uk

    ken_uk

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  • #23
    Does forbes own business.com?
    They have a couple of advertisements to business.com on that page that are not nofollowed, not redirected, not javascripted etc as far as I can see (but it is late and I am tired), are those paid links?

    Business.com's own site states

    Business.com is the leading business search engine and directory and pay-per-click advertising network serving more than 40 million unique business users and thousands of advertisers every month. Business.com helps business decision makers quickly find what they need to manage and grow their businesses, and enables advertisers to reach these users wherever they are across the business Internet through premier partners, including The Wall St. Journal Online, Forbes, BusinessWeek, Hoovers, Financial Times and Internet.com.
    Click to expand...
    So it looks like they could be, yet google does not seem to mind forbes doing it, if that is indeed what they are doing.

    Surely google checks out what they link to especially on a page like that, to ensure its worth a vote,
    and not setting a bad example, and if they checked it, why no mention that what they are doing is bad? (If it is, still trying to figure it out).
    Or has forbes already been penalised?
     
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    I, Brian

    I, Brian

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  • #25
    I think Matt's post makes a very fair point.

    Firstly, he's discussing paid for blog posts - I've already dropped this as a link development strategy, because the quality of blogs posting this has plummeted in value. Additionally, the blog posts usually carry a very easily identifiable flag such as "Sponsored Post" - which shouldn't be too hard for Google to identify in its algorithm and devalue.

    Secondly, the program being promoted is potentially unethical, which is a point Matt really hammers home. I think it's important that link developers - heck, any marketer - believes in the quality of the project they are working on. I couldn't market the site in question unless I were convinced that it would deliver exactly what it claims.

    So while paid links is something I think is essential for link development, there are more intelligent ways to do a campaign, and I actually agree with the sentiments Matt is trying to communicate about both the product and method here.

    I bet Ray's surprised I'm in agreement. :)

    ADDED: I have it on authority that Forbes has long carried a form of penalty on passing link juice. Forbes.com is filled with doorway pages advertising third parties, set up just for search engines, and not even normally accessible for human users. Just thought I'd mention that. :)
     
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  • #27
    What a load of codswallop.

    Google being the largest seller of paid links on the planet.

    Does this mean that every paid banner and advert on a site comes under paid links.

    cause in my book it does.Tell me the difference?

    If this is all true then its great for lily white SEO types like Moi.;)

    Earl
     
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    R

    RayB

  • #28
    ken_uk said:
    Meanwhile, hadn't everyone better remove all those signature links in this forum, those are paid links - you can only get them if they are paid for, and the directory entries in the members directory, as I dont recall seeing any sign of them having to be reviewed, and they are paid for...
    Click to expand...

    Actually Ken - good point - I would actually prefer my signature links to be "nofollow" for the record, but:

    I value mine for the traffic - as I have said before - UKBF sends 20 -40 unique visitors to my site every single day....:)
     
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    R

    RayB

  • #32
    sirearl said:
    But still a massive dillution of the quality of search results.:)

    I think there may be a tad of hypocrisy there.:p

    Earl
    Click to expand...

    LOL - great example.

    But as a rule adwords ads are generally pretty good - simply because most advertisers are only bidding on relevant KW's - plus Google rewards more relevant sites with lower CPC etc.

    But that is a whole different subject ;)
     
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    ken_uk

    ken_uk

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  • #34
    Ironic also, that google actually started of with what are in effect a bucket full of paid links on its site.

    http://web.archive.org/web/19990204033714/google.stanford.edu/about.html

    Links to the people who bought them equipment (IBM, Intel and Sun)
    Links to the people who funded their research (Nasa and several others)
    and many more links....

    So its ok for them, but not for others eh?

    Matts post also uses the brain tumour example (to pull on the heart strings, its not exactly a normal example of a typical average type link) to in effect hide the bigger picture that is being introduced at the same time.

    That they are not just penalising the obviously bad paid post links, but *all* paid links that pass PR, regardless of relavence, suitability or circumstances, or location....
     
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  • #35
    RayB said:
    LOL - great example.

    But as a rule adwords ads are generally pretty good - simply because most advertisers are only bidding on relevant KW's - plus Google rewards more relevant sites with lower CPC etc.

    ;)
    Click to expand...

    Rubbish google rewards sites that pay them the most cash.

    And makes a pretence of suggesting there is some ethical method in chosing who goes at the top.

    Truth is most of these sites would not see the light of day,left to compete with good honest ethical sites full of excellent content like mine:rolleyes::)

    Lets hope The crew give google a rude awakening like they did to Yahoo.a few years ago :eek:

    I for one would be delighted with the demiss of Google;)

    Earl
     
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    R

    RayB

  • #38
    RedEvo said:
    I think people might be missing the whole point of this blog post by a country mile. Google isn't suggesting you shouldn't sell links, it's suggesting you shouldn't sell them to pass on PageRank, there's a great deal of difference.

    d
    Click to expand...

    I get it - loud and clear.

    But then I don't sell links, never have, never will - so I don't have any other factors to impact on my reasoning - I can just use logic totally unhindered ;)
     
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    sabian1982

    sabian1982

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  • #40
    This is a more recent article, however there is an older one that specifies ad block units and how paid links really concentrates on putting viagra or unrelated links (that are obviously paid on a website). As per the usual there is always an exception to the rule and this is more about passing pagerank.

    I will also quote:

    The views expressed on these pages are mine alone and not those of my employer.
    Click to expand...

    from Matts disclaimer page ;) Everyone seems to want to jump a mile and bow down to Matt every time he says something lol
     
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